***Official Political Discussion Thread***

Thank you Methodical Management Methodical Management for the kind words and I will keep trying my best. I believe that if we give up we lose everything and as battered and bruised as I feel and we all feel, giving up is not an option and I will dust myself off and keep fighting. I agree that the democrats need to make changes but I’m not sure what we can do to break out of the cycle where Republicans break it so bad people desperately want change (Obama doesn’t get elected if not for the Great Recession and Joe doesn’t get elected without the pandemic), we fix it, our side gets apathetic and then just enough of us stay home and Republicans get reelected. Is there anyone in Texas, Ohio or Montana that actually believe that Ted Cruz, Moreno and a guy that lied about getting shot in combat will actually do anything to change or improve their lives? This is what we’re up against, one side never holds their leaders accountable to actually make their lives better (they want to hurt others) and will consistently vote for misery to own da libs. Our side rightfully wants and expects results but our coalition is always put to the test and it is almost impossible to win.

With all due respect, I’m sick of Bernie Sanders and his schtick. I’ll never forget when he did his southern state tour after 2016 and many folks loved his policies but then said they wouldn’t vote for him. Bernie focuses intently on that economic anxiety crap that is just a cover and an excuse for hate. I also want to call bogus stuff on the “dems abandoning working class” nonsense. How have democrats abandoned working class folks when they are the ones fighting to get Teamsters pension funded with no Republican votes, they are trying to pass policies that impact working class voters (Inflation Reduction Act is still paying dividends) and yet none of that matters. What does the Republican Party offer to working class voters when they continually bring cases to the SC to hurt workers rights and they encourage profits of workers rights at every turn.? Bernie trying to throw in a few Black and Brown workers to try to salvage his same played out argument. Bernie speaks in generalities but we need actual examples to fix things. Many White Working Class Americans are operating in a “Tails I win” “heads you lose” type of nonsense where if they turn out for Trump they get to see groups they hate get impacted, if Trump or Republicans lose they get policies like the ACA and other programs that benefit them while they continue to vote Republican.

I’m sorry but the not adapting narrative isn’t fully accurate either. The inflation reduction act has a had a meaningful impact on inflation (worldwide issue) and a border bill was killed by Trump for his own political gain. We need new ideas and new strategies but those ideas and strategies need to be based in reality not platitudes about economic anxiety and other things.
 
rolaholic said:


Thank god the Big Inflation lobby won last night...
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This is not complex and already happens..

Trump is just a dummy who believes he’s smart, which makes him dangerous especially now that he’s extremely powerful.. again

The Bahamas don’t got a ton of rhodes scholars but he could have a simple convo with the average Bahamian who could explain this to him because we gotta import pretty much all of our shh and we get businesses got make money so raising import tax rates only going raise costs overall
 
gry60 said:
I posted before about my experience growing up in a system like this.

Loyalists in government only care about how much fat they trim off their allocated budgets and how much bootlicking they need to do to not piss off the president and his entourage. They have no time to care for the woes of the common folk.

Americans don't know what the Trump sycophants have in store for them.
All because they were scared of LGBT folks. :lol:
All because they had one too many female bosses :lol:
All because people prefer saying happy holidays instead of merry Christmas :rofl:
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Yeah I was going to say I know you know this cause of your history and I have similar history in my family but for people that don't know, this is how every dictatorship ever has done things.

Completely gut the government and fill it with cronies so they can all line their pockets and do what they want.

And like I said, if it was strictly Trump and his ilk, I think they'd gladly line their pockets and let things still function more or less like the Marcos' in the Philippines or the Thai royal family to an extent.

But with all the different types that now make up the Republican party, I can also see them actively ridding the country of their enemies as well like a Pinochet or those types.

And you really nailed that it's for absolutely silly reasons that they voted for this. It's unbelievable.
 
atlsfinest said:
The Democratic party has an identity crisis. It used to be a coalition of limousine liberals, minorities and working class but they have abandoned the working class.

For the past three election cycles the Democratic platform has been "we're not Donald Trump".
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You haven't been paying attention then.


Expanded overtime guarantees for millions​

Gun violence prevention and gun safety get a boost​

Renewable power is the No. 2 source of electricity in the U.S. — and climbing​

Preventing discriminatory mortgage lending​

A sweeping crackdown on “junk fees” and overdraft charges​

The nation’s farms get big bucks to go “climate-smart”​

Giving smaller food producers a boost​

Biden recommends loosening federal restrictions on marijuana​

A penalty for college programs that trap students in debt​

Biden moves to bring microchip production home​

Reinvigorating cancer research to lower death rates​

Union-busting gets riskier​

Fixing bridges, building tunnels and expanding broadband​


Making airlines pay up when flights are delayed or canceled​


My thing is, the message that they are not Donald Trump should have been more than enough because Donald Trump doesn't win clean elections anywhere else in the Western world by virtue of who he is.

The fact that Trump won is a statement on the character of the American voter: it's ugly inside.
 
af1 1982 said:
I manage a product line for my company. Anything that we make in china we need to pay a 26% tariff. Guess who ends up paying that? The customer lol
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This is no surprise, man. Anytime the government imposes price adjustments, the consumer ends up paying for it. Take minimum wage hikes, for example—what did people expect, prices to stay the same? It’s a great idea for workers, but the execution often falls short. The government imposes laws, penalties, and policies, but there needs to be something in place to ensure that those minimum wage increases don't just get passed on to the consumer. I'm not saying companies should go bankrupt, but if their profit margin drops from 10 billion to 7 billion because they can’t pass the cost increase on, so be it. But then again, that’s not really the Democratic way, right?

The COVID checks and similar relief measures may have helped some in the short term, but they also had sever consequences. While they provided immediate relief, they fueled inflation, driving prices up at a record pace. This ultimately backfired, hurting consumers in the long run as the cost of living skyrocketed, effectively canceling out the benefits of those payments. Which is what did the party in.
 
It is what it is mane, America has spoken and though you may not like what she said, you should listen. Your pets are safe.
 
keko jones said:
Do you actually believe this is the reason why the Democratic based didn't show up?

What’s crazy to me is how the Democratic Party rightfully condemns extreme rhetoric and the mocking of certain groups by Trump, yet when it comes to those who share even one value with Trump, they start labeling them as: uneducated whites, misogynistic Black and Hispanic men, and racist people. In general. How do they think that was going to play out? Do you really think a woman who’s not a college graduate, constantly being called “uneducated,” is motivated to go out and vote like they did last time? It’s like we’re missing the bigger picture here—let’s really think this through.
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Real life and NT are totally different in that respect. The sentiment on here with the discourse usually is it’s not my job to educate you, this isn’t the place to have your opinions coddled etc. And that works fine on here, Reddit, and other discussion board pages.

It doesn’t translate over well in real life though. I’ll see it on social media and in person where the uneducated label and attack mode approach will happen to people who fit the label you’re referring to. It’s annoying seeing people eat up the gop rhetoric. But calling them stupid, uneducated and all of that isn’t it. These people aren’t hardcore MAGA conservatives. They’re more political casuals than anything. A lot of them probably voted democrat or considered themselves to be democrat or left leaning at one point.

That attack mode approach is just going to rub on the fence voters off, people who normally don’t vote, don’t follow much politics, are thinking about voting but politics isn’t their thing etc. All that’s going to do is push them to the right if they were already falling for some of the right wing talking points and fear mongering. Or it’s just going to make them disinterested in politics and voting altogether which is an indirect win for the gop.

I’ll beat this dead horse until it’s blue. The Dems don’t necessarily need to appease conservatives or try to win the MAGA crowd over. That’s a failed mission. They do need to address the voter apathy problem though. You can have a great message and policies the average person would like if the message got across to them properly and resonated. If you can’t simplify and articulate the message and get it across, it’s all for nothing.
 
keko jones said:
Do you actually believe this is the reason why the Democratic based didn't show up?

What’s crazy to me is how the Democratic Party rightfully condemns extreme rhetoric and the mocking of certain groups by Trump, yet when it comes to those who share even one value with Trump, they start labeling them as: uneducated whites, misogynistic Black and Hispanic men, and racist people. In general. How do they think that was going to play out? Do you really think a woman who’s not a college graduate, constantly being called “uneducated,” is motivated to go out and vote like they did last time? It’s like we’re missing the bigger picture here—let’s really think this through.
Click to expand...
You don't need a college degree to be educated enough for politics. You just need to be discerning enough to separate the BS from correct data. You also need to have the humility to admit you don't know something and learn. I respect that. I don't respect willful ignorance.

Trump is the epitome of falling upwards. When has he ever shown any integrity? You expect him to go after those he openly hates, but the running gag of the last ten years has been watching his closest people get burned hard by him as soon as they disagree with him. He hasn't done anything out of altruism for others; it's always been him, him, him. Why are you asking me to respect those who see value in Trump? I won't.
 
cedric ceballos said:
Real life and NT are totally different in that respect. The sentiment on here with the discourse usually is it’s not my job to educate you, this isn’t the place to have your opinions coddled etc. And that works fine on here, Reddit, and other discussion board pages.

It doesn’t translate over well in real life though. I’ll see it on social media and in person where the uneducated label and attack mode approach will happen to people who fit the label you’re referring to. It’s annoying seeing people eat up the gop rhetoric. But calling them stupid, uneducated and all of that isn’t it. These people aren’t hardcore MAGA conservatives. They’re more political casuals than anything. A lot of them probably voted democrat or considered themselves to be democrat or left leaning at one point.

That attack mode approach is just going to rub on the fence voters off, people who normally don’t vote, don’t follow much politics, are thinking about voting but politics isn’t their thing etc. All that’s going to do is push them to the right if they were already falling for some of the right wing talking points and fear mongering. Or it’s just going to make them disinterested in politics and voting altogether which is an indirect win for the gop.

I’ll beat this dead horse until it’s blue. The Dems don’t necessarily need to appease conservatives or try to win the MAGA crowd over. That’s a failed mission. They do need to address the voter apathy problem though. You can have a great message and policies the average person would like if the message got across to them properly and resonated. If you can’t simplify and articulate the message and get it across, it’s all for nothing.
Click to expand...
I get what you are saying but trump didn’t do any of that to warrant their votes. So only democrats have to coddle voters or else?
 
cedric ceballos said:
Real life and NT are totally different in that respect. The sentiment on here with the discourse usually is it’s not my job to educate you, this isn’t the place to have your opinions coddled etc. And that works fine on here, Reddit, and other discussion board pages.

It doesn’t translate over well in real life though. I’ll see it on social media and in person where the uneducated label and attack mode approach will happen to people who fit the label you’re referring to. It’s annoying seeing people eat up the gop rhetoric. But calling them stupid, uneducated and all of that isn’t it. These people aren’t hardcore MAGA conservatives. They’re more political casuals than anything. A lot of them probably voted democrat or considered themselves to be democrat or left leaning at one point.

That attack mode approach is just going to rub on the fence voters off, people who normally don’t vote, don’t follow much politics, are thinking about voting but politics isn’t their thing etc. All that’s going to do is push them to the right if they were already falling for some of the right wing talking points and fear mongering. Or it’s just going to make them disinterested in politics and voting altogether which is an indirect win for the gop.

I’ll beat this dead horse until it’s blue. The Dems don’t necessarily need to appease conservatives or try to win the MAGA crowd over. That’s a failed mission. They do need to address the voter apathy problem though. You can have a great message and policies the average person would like if the message got across to them properly and resonated. If you can’t simplify and articulate the message and get it across, it’s all for nothing.
Click to expand...
You’re absolutely right, and I agree with you. The challenge is that in environments like NT, simply raising these points can often be misunderstood or labeled as being aligned with a particular ideology, such as MAGA or Trump supporters. However, my intention isn’t to align with any political group, but rather to address real-life issues and present perspectives that may be overlooked. It’s important to acknowledge the complexities of the situation, and while I understand how it may be perceived, I can confidently say that my goal is to shed light on these concerns rather than simply follow the narrative. At least I know I’m approaching the conversation with a clear mind, focused on the issues at hand.
 
I don’t care if the party moves to the center, left or wherever, we just have to win. If the voters in our coalition were more engaged in the political process it would be easier to figure out what they want and how to give it to them to get engaged. The reality is that many in our coalition should look at how Black people typically rally and vote even when we’ve yet to see a Black specific focus like Bernie wants us to have with White Working Class Voters. I’m not sure how you thread the needle on every issue without someone in the coalition having to make a big sacrifice. The biggest difference between us and them is that they realize the value and power inherent in voting and being somewhat active in the political process. Our side needs to be convinced to vote which makes the job even harder. Their floor support is significantly higher than our floor and their voters actually believe voting works when I question if many on our side feel the same way. I’m furious at our side. We have been hearing for almost two years that if someone younger were running then the coalition would come out and support that person. That was just a lie. Kam got fewer votes than Joe.
 
gry60 said:
You don't need a college degree to be educated enough for politics. You just need to be discerning enough to separate the BS from correct data. You also need to have the humility to admit you don't know something and learn. I respect that. I don't respect willful ignorance.

Trump is the epitome of falling upwards. When has he ever shown any integrity? You expect him to go after those he openly hates, but the running gag of the last ten years has been watching his closest people get burned hard by him as soon as they disagree with him. He hasn't done anything out of altruism for others; it's always been him, him, him. Why are you asking me to respect those who see value in Trump? I won't.
Click to expand...
You're oversimplifying the issue and deflecting from the core point. My focus isn't on education, but it's clear that the Party's messaging has centered around it. They labeled anyone without a college degree as "uneducated" and perpetuated the narrative that it’s these individuals who are supporting Trump. However, the underlying issue isn't necessarily that people switched to Trump, but that many voters simply didn’t show up to vote at all. There’s a significant difference between people who actively chose the opposition and those who, for whatever reason, felt disengaged or disillusioned with the political process. This gap in voter turnout is the real concern and should be examined as a key factor in the outcome.

Uneducated only came from the Democratic party.
 


Biden was a good president, but him and his political advisors gotta go.

I never wanna hear from them again.
 
Beans said:
I get what you are saying but trump didn’t do any of that to warrant their votes. So only democrats have to coddle voters or else?
Click to expand...

In all honesty they don’t have to do anything. But the current status quo isn’t helping them with the voter apathy problem.

Personally who cares what Trump did or didn’t do. If people who casually follow politics at best ate up the Trump rhetoric, they need to make a legit effort to counter that and have a damn good rebuttal. If dumbing it down and coddling them is what it takes, so be it.

And let’s make it clear here. This isn’t some pie in the sky delusional try and win over the maga crowd take. It’s finding a way to appeal to and win over the political casuals, the people who keep up with politics through memes and really only follow politics when it’s an election year. Hell they can go all out and invest that effort and resources in all the swing states and make it a 4 year plan for all I care.
 
Im so over this! The real issue isn’t about what Trump or the Republicans did or didn’t do, it’s about what the Democratic Party failed to do. Trump lost votes, but the Democrats lost even more — 15 million voters didn’t show up. The focus should be on why that happened. What did the Democratic Party fail to address or connect with? Instead of continuing to blame the Republicans, it’s time to take a hard look at the internal issues within the Party. The constant deflection doesn’t help the situation — we need to focus on what went wrong on the Democratic side and why those 15 million voters stayed home.

Stop about Trump is Evil, it didn't work!!!!
 
trappedintime said:
I’m done with politics after this. Only so many times you can try to be on the right side of morality, decency, common sense policy and none of it matters. Awful policy from both parties, awful human beings that run for the office, awful human beings who fight like it’s high school sports.

I don’t care about who yells loudest and is the most vile and insulting. And it was made clear last night that it’s the only thing most Americans actually do care about.

My life will be best served the next 4 years tuning it all out. They institute an abortion ban? Who cares. Should have cared years ago or yesterday. Want to f the avg American on taxes? Who cares. Want to align with Russia and fight former allies? Who cares.

I spent 8 years giving way too much of a **** and common sense failed at almost every turn. But believing the intelligence and rationale of Americans will improve in this lifetime without an incredibly drastic breakdown of society is hopelessly stupid.

I skimmed through the postmortem here and there’s so much delusion about the Democratic party making changes that will suddenly lead to wins and better policy. It won’t happen. They’re a failed party and there’s never going to be someone who turns around the messaging, let alone the policy in the next decade.

It is what it is. Life will go on. People will die just like they have at the hands of every American administration. Hope it isn’t you or your loved ones but that’s the cost of education and govt failing so miserably.
Click to expand...

I think everyone deserves a break from the cortisol drip that is the almost year round campaign season.

Take care of yourself. I hope to see you back near the midterms. But yeah, take a break from following national politics every day.


rolaholic said:
Those folks are much more envious of those 'rich coastal elites' they rail against than they like to lead on and pretend :lol

They want to be like them and to be able to have real access and power to get away with everything that they can a lot more than they actually 'hate' them for looking down on everyone else from ivory towers.

They'd 100% be looking down right with them if given the same opportunity :lol >D
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Also, to your point, a lot of high profile conservatives are failed professional actors, writers, and producers.

Their first choice was to be a Hollywood Sicko. But they couldn’t hack it so they start claiming that everyone in Hollywood is a pervert because they know that if they had made it and became a big time producer, they’d make Harvey Weinstein look like a Boy Scout. So they figure that’s the case for everyone.

But due to the fact that they washed out of Hollywood, they usually become a ****** comedian, and in many cases, they get a job in right wing media.
 
aepps20 said:
I’m not sure how you thread the needle on every issue without someone in the coalition having to make a big sacrifice.
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By definition, for a political coalition to move forward, concessions have to be made.

When I read that left-leaning voters stayed home because Harris appealed to Cheney during the campaign, all I want to do is swap this base for the GOP's. At least they understand the political game that's being played by having Amber Rose on stage: get all the votes you can get and kick her *** to the curb after Election Day.

It gets tiring to explain this during and after every election. We need the snowflakes to toughen up and understand that in a democracy, you can't always maintain party purity and achieve electoral victory.
 
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