***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

Sure. I'm not saying it's unfair to think that.

I'm just saying that it doesn't mean that person is like a "conservative" in a strict sense.

Like there are plenty of working class white people who have some amount of racial animus but still end up voting for Democrats. And think America is a melting pot and divirsity is good ect

And there are plenty of black and brown people who complain about poor people they think are underserving of whatever benefits they are getting.

Conservatives probably win a overwhelming majority of the "white people with racial animus" vote.

Democrats probably win the majority of the combined black and brown vote that complain about welfare recipients

So I am trying to say, fundamentally your argument is that dude is different from the norm. But you are presenting it like he is representative of the norm.

I don't think anyone thinks people like him don't exist, or they are not plenty of people like him. But demographically, people like him are not the majority.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Conservatives probably win a overwhelming majority of the "white people with racial animus" vote.

Democrats probably win the majority of the combined black and brown vote that complain about welfare recipients

So I am trying to say, fundamentally your argument is that dude is different from the norm. But you are presenting it like he is representative of the norm.

I don't think anyone thinks people like him don't exist, or they are not plenty of people like him. But demographically, people like him are not the majority.

if you are talking about politically engaged people yah i think conservatives have the overwhelming majority.

but im talking about non politically engaged people.

I think those people have much more contradictory views. so i don't think the majority of non politically engaged "white people with some amount racial animus" are strict conservatives.

given that turn out in american is like 50-60% given the election, I think there are more of those people than the super engaged down the line conservatives.

 

[mplsdunk]

Voting in general is contradictory. It’s not like you ever love the person you vote for and probably don’t like some things they stand for at all.

 

[RustyShackleford]

if you are talking about politically engaged people yah i think conservatives have the overwhelming majority.

but im talking about non politically engaged people.

I think those people have much more contradictory views. so i don't think the majority of non politically engaged "white people with some amount racial animus" are strict conservatives.

given that turn out in american is like 50-60% given the election, I think there are more of those people than the super engaged down the line conservatives.

Famb, you are confusing me.

You literally mentioned white Democratic voters that have some racial animus....

Sure. I'm not saying it's unfair to think that.

I'm just saying that it doesn't mean that person is like a "conservative" in a strict sense.

Like there are plenty of working class white people who have some amount of racial animus but still end up voting for Democrats. And think America is a melting pot and divirsity is good ect

And there are plenty of black and brown people who complain about poor people they think are underserving of whatever benefits they are getting.

So I am pointing out how most people holding racial animus vote.

I am responding to what you said.

If you were talking about non politically engaged people, when why use voters?.Which I assume would qualify as politically engaged.

Since you seem to be using the non voting population to argue the number of "non engaged" people out there is much higher.

- Also, I am not saying all these people are strictly conservative. I am saying a majority are on aggregate conservative.

 

[IATT]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Famb, you are confusing me.

You literally mentioned white Democratic voters that have some racial animus....



So I am pointing out how most people holding racial animus vote.

I am responding to what you said.

If you were talking about non politically engaged people, when why use voters?.Which assumed would qualify as politically engaged.

Since you seem to be using the non voting population to argue the number of "non engaged" people out there is much higher.

-

to clarify by by "not engaged" I don't mean "don't ever vote"
I just mean not super keyed into politics or consuming political news or content.

not voting is a proxy for "not engaged" but not engaged people sometimes vote.

Also, I am not saying all these people are strictly conservative. I am saying a majority are on aggregate conservative.

my intuition, is that it's harder to break this down on conservative / liberal lines.

like is the guy who thinks Ukraine is getting too much money,
welfare recipients shouldn't get junk food
more immigration is good.
and taxes on the rich good.

is that person a conservatives? I don't think it's as easy to place non engaged people, because there politics are more irrational and in coherent.

 

[IATT]

 

[frink85]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/25/trump-mugshot-shirts-georgia/

all those street corner tshirt dudes are small time. $25 mugs is the real hustle

 

[cubanref]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/25/trump-mugshot-shirts-georgia/

all those street corner tshirt dudes are small time. $25 mugs is the real hustle

Sold another t-shirt
Put hoodies and Mugs up earlier

 

[IATT]

 

[RustyShackleford]

to clarify by by "not engaged" I don't mean "don't ever vote"
I just mean not super keyed into politics or consuming political news or content.

not voting is a proxy for "not engaged" but not engaged people sometimes vote.

Okay, fine, that makes a whole bunch more messy

So you are saying "non-engaged" white people with racial animus include non-voters and sometimes voters. And you agree when white people with racial animus vote, they tend to vote conservative more often than not, by a large margin.

Seems to me that the behavior of the voting sample would give insights into the non-voting population.

The key difference you are trying to say is political engagement. I don't see that as strong enough of a difference to make me believe white people with racial animus are not on aggregate conservative.

Because your argument implies that non-politically engaged white people with racial animus, that does end up vote, tend to split their vote equally between liberal and conservative candidates. (Given you have not identified any major difference between the ones that do and don't vote)

That seems like a massive guess, one I would I would think that was wrong. Limited evidence suggests it is wrong.

I think conservatives win these voters. Not by the margins they win the overall racial animus white vote, or the overall white vote, but they still win it. Maybe if it were the 90s I would be more open to it.

But I will admit, that would be a tough thing to measure. Since you would have to use a proxy for racial animus. One that primes any underlying racism when surveyed.

my intuition, is that it's harder to break this down on conservative / liberal lines.

like is the guy who thinks Ukraine is getting too much money,
welfare recipients shouldn't get junk food
more immigration is good.
and taxes on the rich good.

is that person a conservatives? I don't think it's as easy to place non engaged people, because there politics are more irrational and in coherent.

My intuition tells me a majority white from Appalachia on aggregate tend to be conservative. Even though they often espouse support for policies normally associated with the left. The Democrats left me behind is like their rallying cry.

It seems like you want to strip away a ton of context that might motivate someone's assumptions to just look at dude's words like they were written on paper. Where it is coming from had something to do with people's initial assumptions.

People make assumptions because of past experiences and observable reality.

Like do you think if turnout in rural white America went to 100%, the partisan lean of these areas would be more liberal? Because that is what your argument implies.

People have incoherent political views, are pressured, and still be on aggregate conservative. I mean we have a major example of this happening with another group, libertarians.

I simply don't think Oliver Anthony types are as representative as you make him out it be.

But of course they exist.

 

[elpablo21]

I remember never being so confused in my young life with how the media covered this

 

[Public Enemy]

I remember never being so confused in my young life with how the media covered this

Talked about Dean the other day. It's come up a few times in national media since Trump came on the national political scene full time. It's absolutely nuts how Dean got shooed away because of that scream, while P01135809 has said and done just horrific things and been forgiven for it.

I mean, I get it - P01135809 is like a visage of white supremacy. An anthropomorphized living breathing walking talking white privilege banner and so his fans and even some of his detractors allow him to survive things that should sink anybody else. It's sickening to watch, but I get it. But that doesn't make it any less crazy.

 

[mplsdunk]

Appalachia is a different place, they don’t have that straight up hate there that a lot of conservatives have. I get mostly good vibes there and more a community.

A lot of it is just poor af plus they got destroyed with oxy. Really the only industry is #coal so they vote whoever says they support it.

It’s always been blue until trump lied his *** off about caring about them.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I could be wrong but I think I read Dean campaign was on a downward trend already and the media had already soured on him. He just come in third in the Iowa caucus.

The scream happened, it was probably one of the first major political things to go viral in the internet. Then the media piled on.

So he was getting pushed out the door already. Kerry and Edwards had pulled ahead.

Just clown him on his way down.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Appalachia is a different place, they don’t have that straight up hate there that a lot of conservatives have. I get mostly good vibes there and more a community.

A lot of it is just poor af plus they got destroyed with oxy. Really the only industry is #coal so they vote whoever says they support it.

It’s always been blue until trump lied his *** off about caring about them.

***Turns on Shawty Lo voice***

Well gawd damn, must be two Appalachias

 

[mplsdunk]

***Turns on Shawty Lo voice***

Well gawd damn, must be two Appalachias

Your mileage may vary obviously.

I did get confronted by a man who didn’t want strangers in his holler. I told him I was there to buy a then he came with because he knew they people and they said he was weird and annoying.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Your mileage may vary obviously.

I did get confronted by a man who didn’t want strangers in his holler. I told him I was there to buy a then he came with because he knew they people and they said he was weird and annoying.

I think rural white Appalachia is still racist as hell

It is just that the other major white rural era are located in the deep south and mountain west.

So yeah, relatively not as bad. But still bad.

Because at least it seems you can still be openly Democratic in that area, because they is a history of Democratic support there.

In the deep south and mountain west, you open yourself up tons to tons of harassment.

My black *** not going to them areas willingly though.

 

[mplsdunk]

Yeah, I’ll agree with that.

Worst vibes is Arkansas.

 

[Belgium]

aepps20 Come get your mans

 

[brian8598]

I remember never being so confused in my young life with how the media covered this

 

[aepps20]

aepps20 Come get your mans

His cred with da Hip Hop Intellgencia is at an all time high. MY LAWYER HAVE LAWYERS

 

[Nike Jordan]

I remember never being so confused in my young life with how the media covered this

I could be wrong but I think I read Dean campaign was on a downward trend already and the media had already soured on him. He just come in third in the Iowa caucus.

Yeah, Dean's campaign was already going downhill before the "scream".

He dropped out a month later, after the Wisconsin primary.

 

[dragicon]

“ I’ve spent 100s of hours”…. Lady, that’s like 5 days

 

[IATT]