OFFICIAL NEW YORK KNICKS OFFSEASON THREAD: TRAINING CAMP

[throwedindagame]

This team is a joke.

 

[melovp]

What do you think it will take for the fans to stop yelling?

Beating the suns (however very unlikely to happen) has to count for something.

Maybe?

 

[true 3 blue]

was at the game.
lost my voice.
feel like running around the entire borough of BK for the night.

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by FlatbushFiyah23

I have noticed comments in this thread regarding the next coach and I would like to see a young top assistant in this league get a shot. Or Herb Williams or Mark Jackson....I would have no problems with either of those guys.

Ska I agree with you 100% about changing the coach first before chaning players.....you made a lot of great points.

The Knicks played well tonight it the second half....they have won 3 out of 4 but they still need to prove to the fans that they can bring this intesity consistently. One thing Isiah did tonight that I liked was that he went with the hot lineup down the stretch. Those who were producing and playing well on the defensive end were on the floor. Thats how it should be.

More and more I am starting to agree with GR8. I have supported Curry but the team just looks more fluid without him on the floor. I think we could use a defensive center as well. So I have a trade possibility to throw out there.

How about the Knicks going after Okafor? He did not sign an extension this off-season and the Bobcats may be looking to get value for him before he bolts. I think he would be a nice fit for the Knicks. What do you guys think?

Now we talking homie, glad we have the same viewpoints. Okafor is a BEAST shot blocker and would be perfect for us at centet, which is hard for me to say causei hate Okafor just like i hate everyone from UCONN, but his strengths are our weaknesses. He will defend, rebound, and he is not ball hungry. This is a guy whowould perfectly compliment Zach in their contradicting styles but Curry HAS to go...

Once again we showed tonight that the Knicks are better in a guard ran offense and when Curry is out of the game. He also proved once again his immensesoftness getting only 7 points, 2 boards, and 0 assists in 26 minutes. He is worthless. The only thing that one can possiby compliment him on is his offense,but if the offense does better without him, why does he recieve any minutes whatsoever?

That is why this thread is the new Start David Lee Thread. Because while yalls saw great play at the end by Crawford and Freedy Jones, the game changed when weput lee in (FINALLY) for curry. He was tough on D down low, got key rebounds offensively and dfensively. I think that after Marbury (who was terriffic tonight)David Lee is the most complete player on this team and the hardest worker. It made me sick seeing that oncce again in the 4th quater that Lee had only played 4minutes and Curry was still out there. While the haters may look at this game and say something ignorant like "Marbury left and the Knicks won." Thiswas not at all the case. Marbury left in the 3rd quater and up until about 5-7 or so mins left in the 4th when we put Lee in for Curry the game started tochange. The game changed in every single way that i said it would if we replaced Curry. We got a boost offensively and without Marbury it was J Crawfrod andFred Jones who ran the show on the offense. Like i say, i believe that Crawford is that good that he can ALWAYS pay like that and be a 20ppg player. i thinkhis inconsistency is 99% Isiah Thomas' lousy offensive system which holds our guards like Crawford and Marbury back from reaching their full potential.This team should be led off off of a backcourt dynamic duo of Marbury and Crawford and the post presence of Zach Randolph. This would be a good offense of ballmovement, and the center and the 3 spot should be filled with tough defenders. I can definitley see the Knicks making a move for a tough defensive force thissummer who can also be effective offensively. Maybe even earlier. Guys like Okafor and Artest can both get out of their contract this summer and would be greatin NY.

But first things first, we need to start Lee and bench Curry. Like i said offensively, this opens the floor to a potential DOMINANT scoring "big 3"of Marbury Crawford and Z Bo. If they play together wiith ball movement and no Curry holding them back, they will be good. Their offensive styles allcontradict each other nicely. Marbury as the floor general, who will take it strong to the hoop and hit the occasional 3. Crawford will be our shotting guywith nice touch, and Z Bo will be our scoring big man. Add that triple threat with some energy and defense guys and thats a team, which is what i have beensaying since the preseason. Curry sucks he is not the answer. His best asset is offense and he hurts us in that category, and he KILLS us defensively andrebounding, and energy.

On tonights game...

Big time playing by Marbury before he left. Marbury was keeping us close in a game where he was not getting much help, and if he was out there in the 4th withCurry on the bench there is no doubt in my mind that he would have led that run along with Crawford. But Freddy Jones played VERY nicely so i am notcomplaining. While arbury was being very active offensively, scoring and dishing and even pulling up boards, his best job today was on his most scrutinized andmost underrated category which is defense. Marbury is our most complete player. He is a very good defender usually, and he is very good offensively. He put thelockdown on a guy who wrecked us last year in Mo Williams and was on his#+!* like glue. pops to Steh in this one.

Crawford is an animal. Like i said he has the skills to have games like that consistently but its this %%+*@++ offensive scheme that holds him back. Dude hasan uncanny touch from anywhere on the court. From his floaters to his 3s and he has some nice#+!* moves as well. Tonight in my opinion, we saw a matchupbetween the 2 best bad shot shooters in the NBA in Crawford and Redd. Both players have sick touch and are masters at altering their shots and still knockingit down. He also came up big defensively late in the game, and was no question our MVP in this one.

Fred Jones had a beast 4th quater and mad props to him for that. Part of it had to do with the spread out offense, but he brought good energy and very solidplay. That dunk to finish me off drove me CRAZY.

Great game by Z Bo as well. I still think like i said that Z Bo is right for this team and is no question a TOP TIER offensive forward. He is a threatanywhere, outside, off the dribble, and inside. He is very tough as well and a great rebounder. He plays wack D though. But David Lee was the game changerhere. David lee did all the little things in this one that helped us win. Made up for soft D for Randolph late in the game, and Lee and Randolph down low= verytough and good rebounding. If you want a board vs these 2 yougunna have to work. I thnk Lee came out with some fie cause he wants to earn his minuts becauseIsiah has been ******ed, and he showed why hes 10000X more valuable than Curry. Better rebounder/defender and the offense moves with him out there not tomention he works 50000000X harder than Curry or anyone, but most importantly good things happen when David Lee is out there and the team strives. Curry holdsthis team back.

I guess Isiah will live another day. Great win, very exciting win. but unlike the past hofully Isiah learns from this. Part of our inconsistency is not justthat we'll go hard and than the next game we wont. it's Isiah once again. One game like this one or the Jazz one, he will take Curry out so we areWAYYY better overall, offense, defense, and boards. But than the next oone just like the case like when we beat Utah and than Isiah just totally disregardedwhat he learned from the Utah game and kept Curry out there vs the Celtics and we got SWAMPED. That cant happen. Isiah needs to learn that Curry holds us backan his plan to build a franchise center failed. Start David Lee move on. That is what akes us inconsistent. It all goes back once again to Isiah. Bench curryand we will have that playoff team, like i said in all my previous rants. This game just once again proves my arguments right. WE DO BETTER WITH CURRY OUT ANDRAN BY GUARD PLAY. AND IT IS ISIAH'S GAMEPLAN THAT MAKES THIS TEAM BAD. THE PLAYERS ARE TALENTED. Can make a Trade Curry avy for me?

EDIT: a loss is a loss. Whether you lose by 100 points or by 1 point on a full court buzzer beater. It is still just one loss in the standings. We jsut gottamove on from that Boston loss, and althogh it seems like that one game was a 5 game losing streak (and it could be from the point margain) we gotta move on andlook at it like we lost on a full court buzzer beater. We gotta look at the positives and right now we gotta look and say we won 3 out of 4 thats good.Hopfully Isiah will change the gameplan up though if hes gona stay. And once again a trade Curry avy will be much appreciated.

 

[mez 0ne]

Jesus.

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

.... there's no way MJ would trade Okafor for Curry...

 

[flatbushfiyah23]

Good post as usual GR8. I am glad others would embrace Oakfor coming to the Knicks. As a PITT alum I hated Oakafor but respect his game and think he would be agreat fit for us. ZBo does more for this team than Curry. Curry's style doesnt fit in NY imo...he is a damn good ofensive player but we need defense herein the middle.

Tonight you saw what a defensive player like Bogut can do for a team in the middle. However, lets be realistic here. If Isiah wont admit that he made a mistakewith signing Jerome James. What makes any of us think that he will admit making a mistake as far as Curry being the focal point of the offense??

 

[flatbushfiyah23]

Originally Posted by BullsRepeat3Peat

.... there's no way MJ would trade Okafor for Curry...

Typical random Bull fan...first of all who said Oakafor for Currystraight up?!
Secondly as I stated the Bobcats may be desperate because they do not feel they can resign Oakafor so who knows?! They may want someoffensive value in return and don't get it twisted Curry is not a bad offensive player. He just doesnt fit into our scheme I can see him meshing well withthe Bobcats. Don't even act like it is an outlandish trade....because its really not. It wont be straight up though because the money wont match and wewould have to take on a bad contract or two.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Damn The Gr8 always getting carried away.

 

[blackmagnus514]

he's safe for one more game.

 

[255forlife]

couple pages late, but 3 coaches i think would be better than isiah..


1. JVG

2. John Thompson

3. Whoopi

 

[blackmagnus514]

Whoopi.

 

[eddiehouse5]

Originally Posted by blackmagnus514

he's safe for one more game.

why? because we beat the bucks? he shouldn't be safe at all. i still don't see him getting fired though.
whenever we get thrashed he's notsafe, but when we barely get a win against the bucks he's safe? he should have been fired ten minutes ago. we were thisclose to losing this game.

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

 

[bklyn style baby]

What up fellas, id like to start by saying that was a good game last night. Now i want to addressquestions regarding roster changes, I like the knicks squad and reguardless of what some of you say, i see a team that can contend in the east. I dont want anyroster changes, especially okafor.

Player

G

GS

MPG

FG%

3p%

FT%

OFF

DEF

TOT

APG

SPG

BPG

TO

PF

PPG

Emeka Okafor

14

14

33.9

.511

.000

.515

4.10

8.10

12.20

.4

1.21

2.00

1.64

3.50

12.7

Eddy Curry

15

15

31.1

.558

.000

.600

2.10

3.70

5.80

.6

.27

.67

2.20

3.20

16.3

but, if you go by the numbers okafor is the better defender & rebounder while curry is a better scorer(slightly) so i can understand that move being wanted.

Back to Isiah now... Yes he did make a couple of bad moves (jerome james, Jared jeffries,steve francis), yeshe made controversal statements regarding women in the work place (which is the real reason he's getting booed) but you cant tell me this isnt a man whowants to win. After the bucks went on a 9-0 run in the beginning of the game isiah called a 20sec timeout and barked on the starting 5. thats what we needmore than anything, a coach who's gonna make the players accountable for their performances. (looked like he asked zach when you get double teamed who doyou pass the ball to?, and it looked like zach he pointed at steph) the players gotta get $h1t right. yes the players are a reflection of their coach, but lookat isiahs reaction after the F.jones slam (at the end of the game) he looks like a coach who wants to win badly, not for the naysayers but for the fans. itstime the players showed the same enthusiasm. Forget respect, players are making 4million plus in salary & they underperform and you say its cuz they dontrespect the coach, BS! (earn your money like everyone else)
Fourth quarter i seen a team hungry, a team who Really wanted to win, and thats why they came back, cuz the players wanted it. no x's and o'sare gonna save this team. Yes i agree running the offense through zach & curry leads to our guards looking lost on the court and it needs to be fixed.(looks like we still running the same offense from the ewing era.)
ps-dont get hype its only the bucks!

 

[you go boy]

as if keeping zach and trading curry would solve the problem? NO! first of all we all know zach is a good player but this guy despite his good numbers i see aselfishness in him everytime the knicks play... every time this guy gets the ball he shoots whether its a postup or a mid range jumper... he forces a bad shoteverytime and when hes doubled he shoots it too...he never passes the ball once it goes to him... im not saying curry is a better player but trading him is notgoing to solve anything... curry at least passes out the double team well at least more than zach does...

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by bklyn style baby

I dont want any roster changes, especially okafor.

First of all, that is a complete contradiction. posting his stats, just proved WHY we need him. 12 boards and 2 blocks. I would KILL for 12 boards and 2blocks. He would play tough D inside, he is athletic and runs the floor well, and he isnt a ball fiend/ black hole like Curry. He is the anti Curry and i wouldKILL for that. Not only that but he is a winner, just playing for a bad team. He won that chip at UConn (unfourtanately) as much as i hate Okafor, he wouldTRANSFORM the Knicks. And scoring, i could give a +%#! bout scoring, cause our offense does better without him anyway and Curry only scores cause he gets itevery time.

And to answer your question bklyn, yes Isiah wants to win, but YES he cares about his ego more than wanting to win.

Isiah wants to win for the sole purpose of keeeping his job. But if Isiah REALLY wanted to win like the great coaches of the past. He would bench that +$%#Curry. Like i said that is why we are inconsistent. This is not cause of Bad Play but bad coaching.It is because all of our wins/energy games/good games happenwhen Curry is out and we have a guard ran ffense. but the next game Zeke will act like nothing had happened and go right back into dumping it into fat boy.That is wht we are inconsistent Cause Isiah doesnt learn. Why??? It is all because of his *@@*@@$ ego. He doesnt want to admit that he failed trying to makeEddy our franchise ceter, and that he can never be one. Same reason he did not sign Nichols. Although it was a move that would help the team WIN. He could notput his ego aside and cut dies with Jerome James although he is trash when in, but never plays anyway. He had to cut a player that would help us because of hisego. And even last year, he would even start Jerome James, the wrst player on our te am and keep him in for 5 minutes, just because of his ego and to try andshow he didnt make a mistake.

So yes, Isiah does want to win. But not as much as to protect his ego which is why he will have to go. Cause as long as Isiah is our coach, Jerome James willbe a Knick, and Eddy will be our vocale point although it hurts the team. Isiah will once again not learn from last nights game, the Utah game, or the Denverone, and keep Curry out there and keep him as our vocale point. That is why Isiah must go. He puts ego oer winning.

 

[mister jack johnson]

I don't know if anyone mentioned that the Knicks mounted their comeback against the Bucks, with Marbury in the lockerroom. I believe that he is the one whois sabotaging the Knicks ability, NOT Isiah Thomas.

I think that Isiah is laying it on the line by letting Steph do it his way, so that he can prove him wrong.

Isiah as President of the Knicks, is not going to fire himself, and Dolan isn't gonna do it either, especially not during the season. One of the reasons isthat if the Knicks do turn this thing around, it will be HUGE for the NY fans base, and then the NBA as a whole. Dolan is an egomaniac, one who does not likebeing told what to do.

BTW, I've been to five Games at the Garden this year, and I sit near gate 65, section 77. This is right behind the Knick bench, so I get a pretty good viewof some stuff that many dont see.

Barkley stated that the Knicks have a lot of talent, but they just can't play. Well I don't think that this is the issue.

They simply don't have a leader.

 

[bklyn style baby]

The gr8 i didnt contradict myself, i said that i just dont want okafor simple & plain. me showing side by side statswas to show your point , then i said i can understand why most would like that trade. (me personally despite the numbers think curry is better than okafor)
You also sound sour anytime the subject is about curry (like he stole your ex from you

)

12 boards and 2 blocks. I would KILL for 12 boards and 2 blocks. He would play tough D inside, he is athletic and runs the floor well, and he isnt a ball fiend/ black hole like Curry
I agree! but he's also injury prone!

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by Mister Jack Johnson

I don't know if anyone mentioned that the Knicks mounted their comeback against the Bucks, with Marbury in the lockerroom. I believe that he is the one who is sabotaging the Knicks ability, NOT Isiah Thomas.

THE GR8:

---

While the haters may look at this game and say something ignorant like "Marbury left and the Knicks won." This was not at all the case. Marbury left in the 3rd quater and up until about 5-7 or so mins left in the 4th when we put Lee in for Curry the game started to change. The game changed in every single way that i said it would if we replaced Curry. We got a boost offensively and without Marbury it was J Crawfrod and Fred Jones who ran the show on the offense. Like i say, i believe that Crawford is that good that he can ALWAYS pay like that and be a 20ppg player. i think his inconsistency is 99% Isiah Thomas' lousy offensive system which holds our guards like Crawford and Marbury back from reaching their full potential. This team should be led off off of a backcourt dynamic duo of Marbury and Crawford and the post presence of Zach Randolph. This would be a good offense of ball movement, and the center and the 3 spot should be filled with tough defenders. I can definitley see the Knicks making a move for a tough defensive force this summer who can also be effective offensively. Maybe even earlier. Guys like Okafor and Artest can both get out of their contract this summer and would be great in NY.

Originally Posted by THE GR8

Big time playing by Marbury before he left. Marbury was keeping us close in a game where he was not getting much help, and if he was out there in the 4th with Curry on the bench there is no doubt in my mind that he would have led that run along with Crawford. But Freddy Jones played VERY nicely so i am not complaining. While arbury was being very active offensively, scoring and dishing and even pulling up boards, his best job today was on his most scrutinized and most underrated category which is defense. Marbury is our most complete player. He is a very good defender usually, and he is very good offensively. He put the lockdown on a guy who wrecked us last year in Mo Williams and was on his#+!* like glue. pops to Steh in this one.

Like i said before Marbury was the only one playing well and keeping us close. We weere MISERABLE when he left the game. It wasnt until Curry was out and Leewas inserted when we ran away. It was solely the absence of curry like always because it adds ball movement and defense that won the game. It would have beenhe same cas with Marbury, just like in the past games without Curry. That is hate right there. Just cause they get 1 comeback without Steph in a game where hewas great all around, means they are better without him? what about every other win where he led the runs. But in EVERY win the absence of Curry has improvedthe team in EVERY way.

 

[mister jack johnson]

Obviously Steph playing well, does not mean that the KNICKS are playing well.
After he left, better decisions and shot selections were being made, and they won WITHOUT HIM controlling the offense.

Just like other teams that have a 'shoot first' point guard, it may look as if they are keeping their teams in the game, However down the stretch,those who are needed to shoot and make plays under duress, are out of the groove so to speak, in order to make things happen.

I don't care what kind of offense the team is running under Isiah, the point guard still controls the tempo and distribution.

Marbury just doesn't bring that to the table, every single game.

 

[the gr8]

^^Every win we had this year put aside last nights game was led by Marbury. Every single time we have allowed Marbury to run a gae he has, excellently. /nodoubt in my mind that if Steph was out there last night in the 4th we would have won.

 

[freshtadeff03]

Man, I used to take 12 boards and 2 blocks for granted.......

.....

 

[true 3 blue]

The Gr8, as the days go on, now I start to see why you hate Curry and begin to agree with you. That dude is 7 ft and gets outrebounded by Q rich like itsnothin. His mindset on the defensive end is pitiful and needs to change for the better if this TEAM plans on making ANY sort of turnaround this season.

 

[the gr8]

^^Yeah, thanks man. I just HATE softness. So when i see a dude like Curry on my own team. It just drives me nuts. And he also%#+%+% up our offense.