OFFICIAL NEW YORK KNICKS OFFSEASON THREAD: TRAINING CAMP

[nycknicks105]

I love Lee as much as any Knicks fan, but lets be real. He is under sized, and he needs to develop some sort of offensive game. He can't be "swallowwater" his entire career. Either he develops some sort of offensive game, or we get a dominant center to cover for Lee.

I don't see him as a starter. He plays a lot like a great role-player.

 

[true 3 blue]

lol, its 'Shallow water'

 

[nycknicks105]

Originally Posted by true 3 blue

lol, its 'Shallow water'

Wow, that was a really bad typo i just made.

Now I know that I had too much to drink tonight.

 

[true 3 blue]

he'll be making exceptional leaps in his offensive game this off season.. at least i hope he does.

 

[nycknicks105]

He doesn't have a Charles Barkley type of offensive game. Dude is undersized. He needs to develop some sort of jump shot. 15ft range would be awesome.

I just can't see him as a player who could play with his back to the basket. Although, Lee is a beast when he has a chance to dunk.

Oh, by the way....Chris Paul is a Free Agent by the 2010-2011 season. You guys think if we don't end up with Rose at the draft Walsh would try to getPaul?

I hope CP3 doesn't sign an extension, but I think he might after this season.

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by nycknicks105

I love Lee as much as any Knicks fan, but lets be real. He is under sized, and he needs to develop some sort of offensive game. He can't be "swallow water" his entire career. Either he develops some sort of offensive game, or we get a dominant center to cover for Lee.

I don't see him as a starter. He plays a lot like a great role-player.

Man Lee has improved hus all around game so much, he is easily the best all around player on our team right now and he is the hardest worker so he willkeep improving
I am not gonna say that Lee is our best player but he should be our starting PF and he could be that workhorse like Oak was back in the day.Z Bo has got talent but he dont work as hard as D Lee, and he is not athletic and he dont play D. I want some D.
Lee should be our starting PF IMO. That dude can play

 

[ap27]

lol, i know, maybe 1 of those things will happen, but i can dream, heh...

i dont think David Lee is a starting PF, but resigning/extending him is definetly a priority i think Walsh is gonna take care of this summer, and he'llalways be a solid 25-30 minutes, but for some reason i don't see his offense or defense improving to the point where i'd call him a good everydaystarter...and with zach randolph and eddy curry i can't see the knicks being able to trade BOTH of them (unless walsh can pull off TWO miracles), so i sawRandolph as the lesser of two evils just based off the fact that he can shoot, rebound, and is at least sometimes into the game/competitive...

i guess i'm just trying to think to myself realistically, how is this team ever going to be competitive in the future?...and i think it would probably takeall of those thigns to fall into place, bc altho there's some players that are useful at times (balkman, nate, jefferies), how many of them can actually bestarters/contributers on playoff teams?...otherwise alot of the team is just dead weight (collins, james, morris, qrich, rose)

 

[nycknicks105]

I think between Curry and Randolph, Z-bo would be the easiest to move.

As for Lee, I don't see where his offense has improved...He still relies heavily on the boards, and put backs. I would love to see him develop some sort ofjump shot this off-season. And I'm sure Walsh will re-sign Lee this summer.

 

[ap27]

and yea^, D.Lee is a lot of ppl's favorite players on the knicks, but he lets ppl drive uncontested the same way that randolph and curry do...i knowhe's great for rebounding and hustle (and has the potential to be a better scorer), but i don't see him as ever being an above average defender, so iwould probably start Z-Bo bc he's a consistent post option, and bring some energy off the bench with Lee...

altho who knows, hopefully Lee will surprise all of us and become that player we hope he can be, its a possiblity

 

[tommykairaa]

terrible terrible terrible situation for us knick fans.

But heres what I think, work on lee & move z bo

Francis

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by nycknicks105

I think between Curry and Randolph, Z-bo would be the easiest to move.

As for Lee, I don't see where his offense has improved...He still relies heavily on the boards, and put backs. I would love to see him develop some sort of jump shot this off-season. And I'm sure Walsh will re-sign Lee this summer.

are you kidding me? Have you watched the Kn icks towards the end of this year?

Fact is Lee couldnt shoot FTs and boom he is an above 80% FT shooter just like that. He improved his offensive game this year immensely. He added a midrange game and since he was looking to become a SF at the beginning of the year because of Z Bo he added athletisism so when a bigger man is on him he couldtake him in but he still has the power to body up littler guys. His D is also VERY solid. Lee is our best all around player.

Also the fact that he continues to work as hard as he does on everything shows me he will continue to improve. Yall can talk smack bout the Knicks andwhatever cause i know, but my man Lee is our best player and he works his !!* of to improve. He is our starting PF for the future, and if he is on the benchagain next year i will puke, cause he works 10X as hard as any of these bums.

 

[nyk orange and blue]

[h1]AVERY A 'MAGIC' MAN[/h1] [h2]HOOP LEGEND PUSHING JOHNSON FOR KNICK JOB[/h2]
[h3]By MARC BERMAN[/h3]
[img]http://www.nypost.com/seven/05042008/photos/sports081a.jpg[/img]

JOBE REFERRAL: Ben Jobe, the main character in the basketball documentary "Black Magic," has known Avery Johnson and Donnie Walsh for many years, and hopes he can help bring them together with the Knicks.

[img]http://www.nypost.com/img/slideshow/slideshow_controls_previous.gif[/img][img]http://www.nypost.com/img/slideshow/slideshow_controls_play.gif[/img][img]http://www.nypost.com/img/slideshow/slideshow_controls_next.gif[/img]



May 4, 2008 -- If Avery Johnson listens to his longtime mentor, legendary black-college coach Ben Jobe, he will be beating down Donnie Walsh's door tocoach the KnicksNew York Knicks

.

If Walsh listens to his longtime friend and confidant, Ben Jobe, Walsh will be beating down Johnson's door.

Jobe, Avery's college coach at Southern University and the main character in Dan Klores' "Black Magic" documentary, told The Post he hadbeen in Walsh's ear Thursday and Friday, singing Avery's praises.

And it's not the first time. Jobe, 75, has known Walsh since 1971, when they were assistants at the University of South Carolina. When Walsh became headcoach of the Denver Nuggets, when they were in the ABA, he brought Jobe to be his assistant.

"I've talked to Donnie about Avery for 12 to 15 years, when he was a player," said Jobe, who's retired. "They are both special kindof guys."

Jobe's words have had a dramatic effect on Walsh, who has spoken with Johnson's representatives and could meet with him later this week. The Bullsalso are in the Avery hunt.

"This would be a good marriage between Avery and Donnie - both of them listen to the same drummer - very honest, full of integrity and morality. Weneed more guys like Avery and Donnie in this league because the game is suffering.

"They have respect for all people and New York has all people."

Jobe revealed Walsh is on the fence. Mark Jackson is a favorite of Walsh but has no coaching experience. Mike D'Antoni is not yet on the market but hasa pristine resume with Phoenix, and Walsh looks at him as an offensive innovator. D'Antoni has more meetings scheduled with Phoenix brass this week todetermine if he stays.

Between Johnson, D'Antoni and Sam Mitchell, who still could be let go in Toronto if D'Antoni shakes free, that's three recent Coach of the Yearwinners.

"He realizes he has to figure this out, play it out in his mind," Jobe said. "Donnie is a borderline genius. So whoever he gets, will be theright guy. He knows how to put the pieces of a puzzle together."

Johnson was fired as Maverick coach by Mark Cuban on Wednesday after posting a 194-70 record. The Post's Peter Vecsey reported yesterday Johnson will bereplaced by Rick Carlisle, who received an interview from Walsh.

Jobe speaks with Johnson on a regular basis, even spent a week with the Mavericks this season to give player evaluations.

Beaten down by Cuban, Johnson is happy to be free, according to Jobe.

"He sounded relieved," Jobe said. "He called me up and said, 'I've been fired' and was laughing. It became a bad fit and therewas some verbal abuse [from the owner]. This may be a blessing."

Walsh is one of the reasons Jobe became the central character in the critically acclaimed "Black Magic." Klores, the producer, and Walsh arelongtime friends. When Klores told Walsh about the project regarding a history of black-college basketball pioneers, Walsh told him, "Don't doanything before you speak to Ben Jobe." Jobe posted 524 victories and a .611 winning percentage at Southern, Tuskegee, Talladega and Alabama State, amongothers.

Now Jobe can return the favor by bringing Avery to the Big Apple.

 

[nyk orange and blue]

[h1]Kenny Smith talks up Knick chat[/h1]
BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Saturday, May 3rd 2008, 11:03 PM

Murphy/Getty
Kenny Smith (l.) interviewed for the Knicks' GM job on Saturday.

Kenny Smith took the first step toward ditching Charles Barkley as a sidekick and becoming Donnie Walsh's righthand man when the TNT analyst interviewed for the Knicks' general manager job on Friday.

"It was a great meeting," Smith said Saturday. "I'm happy I got the opportunity to talk to Donnie. We both knew each other, but it wasthe first time we got a chance to sit down, talk and really get to know one another."

Walsh is not expected to make any major front-office changes until after the NBA draft. Incumbent GM Glen Grunwald, director of player personnel Brendan Suhr and the team's existing scouts will assist Walsh at least through June. Grunwald willhave a chance to retain his title while Suhr, who was responsible for advising Isiah Thomas to draft DavidLee, also could be a valuable resource in the front office.

Smith is expected to meet again with Walsh following the draft. Former Sixers GMBilly King and former Sonics GM Rick Sund also are expected to receiveinterviews.

Smith has no previous front-office experience but moving from the broadcast booth to an NBA team is not unprecedented. Many coaches, including Doc Rivers, have made the jump while Phoenix GM Steve Kerr went fromTNT to running the Suns.

"It's not that unique at all," Smith said. "In fact, when you have coaches and guys like myself on television you know something about usbefore we even get interviewed. You know how we feel about certain players and what our philosophies are about the game."

One of Smith's strengths could be his ability to recruit free agents when - if - the Knicks ever get under the salary cap. Smith needed 48 hours afterHurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast to organize a charity basketball game in Houston featuring some of the league's top players.

"It wasn't easy because it was Labor Day weekend," Smith said. "But these guys wanted to help."

Walsh is expected to have a head coach in place before he makes a decision on his next general manager. Mark Jackson still is regarded as the favorite, although just-fired Mavs coach Avery Johnson likely will be interviewed.

Johnson, who is also being courted by Chicago and Phoenix, stresses discipline andis the type of hard-driving coach Walsh covets. Another plus for Johnson is that his mentor, legendary college coach Ben Jobe, is good friends with Walsh.

Jobe recently said Johnson getting the job in New York would be great because he considers Johnson "a son" and Walsh "a brother."

Walsh recently interviewed Rick Carlisle, but the former Pistons and Pacers coach appears to be the favorite to replace Johnson in Dallas. The Mavs denied a NBA TV report on Friday that Carlisle already had agreed to terms with theclub. The Mavs say they will interview other candidates.

"We've had a productive series of meetings," said DonnieNelson, the team's president of basketball operations. "We're very impressed by Rick - not just as a basketball coach, but as a man. We'relooking forward to continuing our conversation."

Nelson could have the job if he wants but says he wants to remain in the front office. Dallas owner Mark Cuban thinks highly of former Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy but Van Gundy, who has told friends that he would love to work for Cuban, has said thathe doesn't want to coach next season.

 

[nycknicks105]

I really wanted someone like Rick Carlise to coach the Knicks. I'm starting to become worried about Mark Jackson.

Maybe Avery would be our best option if Carlise is gone, which seems evident.

But, I do like Kenny Smith being our GM, because you know Walsh will mentor him, and teach him the ropes before he officially steps down. Walsh is 68 and he isDEF. looking for a right hand man to replace him.

 

[j steezzz]

Originally Posted by nycknicks105

He doesn't have a Charles Barkley type of offensive game. Dude is undersized. He needs to develop some sort of jump shot. 15ft range would be awesome.

I just can't see him as a player who could play with his back to the basket. Although, Lee is a beast when he has a chance to dunk.

Oh, by the way....Chris Paul is a Free Agent by the 2010-2011 season. You guys think if we don't end up with Rose at the draft Walsh would try to get Paul?

I hope CP3 doesn't sign an extension, but I think he might after this season.

dude it's like u read my mind

.... that's the only 2 i wouldbe ecstatic about running the Knicks offense for the forseeable future.... CP3 has been a favorite of mine since college... i was hoping the Knicks would tradeup in the 05 draft to get Paul( what was i thinking?) and i know milwaukee and ATL are shaking their heads in not drafting CP3 n getting Bogut (

) and Marvin Williams (

) .... if we do not get Rose , then iWANT CP3 on the squad

 

[nycknicks105]

Originally Posted by J Steezzz

Originally Posted by nycknicks105

He doesn't have a Charles Barkley type of offensive game. Dude is undersized. He needs to develop some sort of jump shot. 15ft range would be awesome.

I just can't see him as a player who could play with his back to the basket. Although, Lee is a beast when he has a chance to dunk.

Oh, by the way....Chris Paul is a Free Agent by the 2010-2011 season. You guys think if we don't end up with Rose at the draft Walsh would try to get Paul?

I hope CP3 doesn't sign an extension, but I think he might after this season.

dude it's like u read my mind

.... that's the only 2 i would be ecstatic about running the Knicks offense for the forseeable future.... CP3 has been a favorite of mine since college... i was hoping the Knicks would trade up in the 05 draft to get Paul( what was i thinking?) and i know milwaukee and ATL are shaking their heads in not drafting CP3 n getting Bogut (

) and Marvin Williams (

) .... if we do not get Rose , then i WANT CP3 on the squad

The problem is that CP3 might end up signing an extension, either by the end of this season or next season. He will not leave New Orleans at this point intime anyway. He is in love with the city, and the fans. The team is basically his.

Also, I'm not too impressed by this draft class, because I don't think this years draft class is as deep as people make it out to be. BesidesBeasley and Rose, we really don't have any other sure fire studs coming out. And our chances of getting Rose is slim to none. He might end up in Seattle,Minnesota, or Memphis before he ends up with us. He might even end up with the Heat if they get the #1 pick.

Although, I'm beginning to like O.J. Mayo a little bit more. He is a well sized, and he can play the point. Has some turnover problems, but at thispoint we can work on that. He can play defense if he decides to.

Jared Bayless seems to be another option for us. He is a pure point guard with a pass first mentality, and doesn't turn the ball over as much as O.J.does. His game sort of reminds me of Raymond Felton.

My sleeper will be D.J. Augustin. At first I was a bit apprehensive about this, but as time went on I started to see the picture a little better. He willend up either with the Bucks or the Clips or Bobcats. His game is better suited for the Bucks than another team right now at this point. Even the Clippers makesome sense (thats if Livingston returns, which is a big IF), they have the proper players for him to run with, and a lot of excellent swingmen, and a big tothrow down to. I see him as another version of T.J. Ford. Or worst case scenario...another Nate Robinson.

My list of probable Knick rookies for 08:
1. Mayo- Not the best option, but will be seen as one. Dude is well sized for a PG, but has the game of a SG.
2. Jared Bayless- Excellent speed, and is a combo guard. Plays the point well, and has a pass first mentality. I would much rather have him at this point. Butwhen I see him I think of Raymond Felton.
3. D.J. Augustin- Undersized but can make up for it with his quickness. A little wild at times, and can turnover the ball.

We need to draft a PG this year, because there aren't too many BIGs to go with anyway. Brook Lopez seems to be the probably guy, and he might end up inMinn. Which might help Al Jefferson in the offense dept, and with the boards.

We shoudl however consider drafting a BIG in the 2nd round. Thats if we even have it

Patrick Ewing Jr. might work out, or someone else.

 

[allen3xis]

Save that cap room for LeBron, please.


As far as Lee...

No doubt in my mind he can have a successful low post game..but it's up to him to improve his footwork and strength.

With him being able to use his left and right hands he could give people fits

 

[the gr8]

nycknicks105 wrote:
Jared Bayless seems to be another option for us. He is a pure point guard with a pass first mentality, and doesn't turn the ball over as much as O.J. does. His game sort of reminds me of Raymond Felton.


have you watched Arizona this year? Bayless is definitley NOT a pass 1st PG. He is more like a Gilbert Arenas.

Anyway im not a fan of Bayless. i say that if we cannot get a top 2 pick or Mayo we trade down and get Augustine. I mean with a rebuilding team you do notwant to set it up around a too shot happy PG. i think Bayless wou;d set this franchise back. Augustine doesnt have the skill or size to be a franchise playerlike Rose does but if we cant Rose i think he is skilled enough to although not be a franchise PG, be a starting PG around a franchise player at a differentposition if we get one. He can feed the ball and make guys better. Bayless is really only effective when he is scoring 30, and starting a new look we do notwant a scoring PG again, and he cannot make a franchise player at a different position better like Augustine does. (I mean just look at how much ChaseBuddingers production dropped with Bayless out there). And also if we trade down to get Augustine we can get the guy we wanted, as well as etting some morepicks, maybe a second round or a late 1st round to get a good big man because there is a lot of nice big men that could help us out in later rounds.

And than about Chris Paul, i am obsessed with this guys game, i have been hyping up my mans game since his early years at Wake Forest and what he is doingwith the Hornets is INCREDIBLE this year, and i dont care if they gve it to Kobe, he is EASILY my MVP this year. He is WAY more valuable to New Orleans withoutPaul New Orleans is top 5 bound, Lakers still got Gasol and some other guys.

I would love my man on the Knicks, but imma be tealistic i really dont see that happening. I dont see him leavinng new Orleans and i see him signing annice extension in the near future.

What about trading for Josh Howard if we can get him cheap, i love his game and i think he can help us, and he is an EXCELLENT defender.

 

[allen3xis]

We won't trade out of a Top 5 or 6 pick.

Just doesn't happen in the NBA. I'm prepared to see Lopez, Mayo, Bayless...and with any luck Rose or Beasley in a Knick uniform next season.

Only thing that would happen would be flip it for a player...and I think we all agree, that's a horrible idea.

 

[the gr8]

^^if it is the fifth pick and the best guy we have is Bayless, and Augustine would be a reach at that spot, and if we traded it we could get a player thatcould definitley help us out for now and most importantly the future, and maybe a later pick as well.

Honestly i would be all for trading it in that situation.

But if we can get Rose, Beasley, or Mayo (and probably Lopez as well) that you keep that pick at all costs. But Bayless is a guy who i feel woud drag thisfranchise's rebuilding processs down, because if you are rebuilding you dont want to do it around a ball hog PG, and if someone would want him and we canget a very good player in return, honestly why wouldnt we do it? Would you rather have a guy who would drag the rebuilding franchise down or a star who we canbuild around in the future as well?

 

[justhotkicks]

Jared Bayless seems to be another option for us. He is a pure point guard with a pass first mentality, and doesn't turn the ball over as much as O.J. does.

You serious? He's almost the exact opposite. The same goes for Mayo. If we want a player who strictly plays the PG position, Augustin would be thebestchoice among those three. But he doesn't have an NBA body, and IMO won't amount to much in the NBA. You can compare him to TJ Ford because of hissize, but Ford is lightning quick and is one of the best pinpoint passers in the game, which Augustin is NOT. If we want a PG, it's Rose or BUST.

I would love my man on the Knicks, but imma be tealistic i really dont see that happening. I dont see him leavinng new Orleans and i see him signing a nnice extension in the near future.

One thing about Chris Paul that impresses me the most is something that very few players in the league have, and that's LOYALTY. In just his third seasonin the league, he's taken OWNERSHIP to the Hornets. He has a "THIS IS MY TEAM." demeanor whenever he plays. If they win, he thanks his playersfor helping him. If they lose, he gladly takes the blame. I don't get that from LeBron, Carmelo, or Wade. Even KG at times. The only other player whoexudes that attitude is Kobe Bryant. I was never a fan of the guy, and yes he's asked to be traded, but he bleeds yellow and purple, and that's why Irespect him. We can dream all we want, but CP3 might be a Hornet for life.

 

[allen3xis]

What I'm sayin is..

Nobody is movin up to take Bayless..from say 15 up to 6.


And as far as dealing for a player....I can't see it happening.

And it shouldn't happen. Nobody worth having is being dealt on draft night....See; Zach Randolph and Antonio McDyess.

Looking at guys Walsh has previously drafted...

Keep an eye on Anthony Randolph..

 

[the gr8]

^^i would rather Randolph than Bayless. Honestly Bayless is the better prospect, but he is NOT the guy that you want on a rebuilding team. I agree with my manabove in terms of PG its Rose or bust. I like Mayo also but he aint really a PG also i would gladly take him though cause he is a great scorer and a madunderated defender, i think with the right coaching he will be an allstar. But Bayless is not the guy we want, i would rather someone at a different positionif it comes down to Bayless, because Augustine will be taken in the 20s.

But whatever until after May 20th Derrick Rose is my man

 

[Mister Meaner]

I'd like to say something. I'm sure its nothing new though.

I want to see David Lee as a Knick for Life, granted, the Knicks improve and become perennial contenders in the next few years. He is the model of hard work.Every year, he adds something to his game. I guarantee he will be an all-star, more than once, before his career is over. And not only an all-star, he will bethe heart of the Knicks soon enough, if he isn't already (but that's not saying much). I have no doubt in my mind that the defense will come along aswell. With this kind of player, it really isn't that hard to imagine.

David Lee will be an important factor in the success of this team. He will be the leader on this squad. 'Nuff said.

 

[the gr8]

^^i agree my man

David Lee is our best player right now (which isnt saying much) but he keeps improving and improving

His game has taken so many leaps every season

I think he can be our starting PF for our future, we need to hold on to this man, this is not a Channing Frye or Curry case where we should have traded himwhen his value was high. Lee is a hard $$*#*@! worker, honestly he has more physical tools than both of them (the combination of strength and athletisism andhe is ambidextrous) and most importantly he is not soft like them. Lee can and hopfully he will be a great Knick. But we need to start him and keep his moralehigh so we can lock him up.