Official NBA Off-Season Thread. New 2012-2013 Thread Has Been Made. Please Post In There

[Bert.]

i hope you were joking with Mcgee...

 

[mronegative]

All this is a mute point cause this year is the coming out party for the real 3rd best Center in the league

Spoiler

I hope I see what you're doing there...

 

[CP1708]

This thread is giving me cancer.

Seriously, the NBA threads the last couple years were good money, now all the regs have dipped out and it's a cluster****

 

[IATT]

john mitchell ‏@JmitchInquirer

Source: Bynum to undergo precautionary non-invasive knee procedure early in Sept. in Germany.

can anyone explain how the deal made sense for orlando?

i get every other team in the trade EXCEPT for orlando.. 3 all-stars got moved and none will be in a magic jersey.. i really don't understand why they didn't do the houston deal when the could have gotten rid of all their bad deals (this was before they resigned jameer.. so they would obviously still have that one)

 

[coldcity]

wow

 

[big j 33]

I highly doubt that outrageous Houston deal where they take on all of Orlando's contracts and give up their rookies actually could have happened.

Orlando didn't want long term deals and wanted young players.

 

[CP1708]

One key reason the lakers GM keeps performing well is tbe hands off approach that the owner allows Mitch to work with. Do not get it twisted. If Dolan owned the lakers there is no way they keep Pau.
The job is very different when the owner isnt a slob breathing down your neck. Pushing you tl fall fr bluffs. Making your job depend on getting the big name no matter what the cost
Just look at how the magic owner and CEO got into the trade discussions
Thjs cant be underestimated enough

You mean, it's not luck then?

Jerry Buss and Jerry West
Jim Buss and Mitch K

Owners and GM's that work together, and have one singular goal in mind, winning. Period. They have a plan, they execute that plan. See the way that West had Shaq and Kobe lined up, and on top of that, he had BACKUP plans if Shaq decided to stay home.

Mitch had Paul and Dwight lined up last year, Stern stepped in and screwed us. His backup plan ends up working out even better for now, but might have cost us a shot at 2012 (no telling what free agents might have joined up with a CP3/Dwight combo, ala JR Smith, Kenyon, etc.)

That's an ownership that works extremely well together, not fools runnin around chasin their own tails.

All that luck, and this and that, it's all sadness. Unless you consider luck to be 30+ years and counting, and just sitting in a room sleeping waiting for the phone to ring with offers of great players for 10 cents on the dollar. That's not what these guys do.

Look at the panic moves teams have been doing. D-Will, Melo, Dwight, Pau, all these teams, fearing losing an asset, when Kobe said he wanted out, our owner and GM didn't panic and sell him for spare parts, they went the other way and made deals to get him help (Ariza, Pau) to go along with young talent THEY had drafted. (Bynum, Farmar, Sasha, Turiaf to go with Odom from the Shaq deal) It took time, but the kids they got, did end up getting to the finals in 08, helping win it in 09 and again in 2010. That's not luck, that's executing their plan. Oh and uh, that's with BAD luck along the way, like Bynum bein hurt 3 years straight, and Ariza also bein out in 08 as well. But let's not mention any of that, we'll pretend these things don't exsist.

 

[CP1708]

can anyone explain how the deal made sense for orlando?


i get every other team in the trade EXCEPT for orlando.. 3 all-stars got moved and none will be in a magic jersey.. i really don't understand why they didn't do the houston deal when the could have gotten rid of all their bad deals (this was before they resigned jameer.. so they would obviously still have that one)

Orlando shed salary, they don't owe Dwight, they don't owe Bynum. They get rid of Clark and Duhon contracts, they get 3 meh picks, to go along with probably a top 1-2-3 pick of their own next year. Another year, they may be able to shed Hedo, JJ leaves at some point, and they start to rebuild with whoever they draft, Affalo, and whatever other picks they land. They suck again, and hope to get a top 1-2-3 pick again, ala OKC blueprint. If they manage 2 blue chips, a ton of cap space to buy a free agent that will actually commit to them, and maybe get a decent Ibaka type 24th or whatever pick with one of the ones from the trade, suddenly they have some talent, and flexibility financially. That's why they didn't take on Brook, or Bynum, they wanted to be able to pick their own guys and go forward.

They didn't get anything sexy in the deal, but they didn't take on mediocrity either. Brook or Bynum would take up cap space + be just good enough to have them drafting in the top 12, rather than the top 3.

Make sense?

 

[mmg]

How's the draft lookin next year from a talent view? any franchise type players?

 

[CP1708]

Was Anthony Davis a #1 pick at this time last year?

Noel, Shabazz, and whoever else steps up can make for a decent 1-2-3. And with luck for Orlando, there'll be a couple additions to choose from. But maybe a smidge early to tell in mid August, don'tcha think?

 

[datznasty]

It doesn't CP. They took on Afflalo who has 31mil over 4 yrs left to be an above average dr
efender and open shot makets, literally gets his shot blocked every time he drivrs. Harrington is well pasy his prime, also very 1 dimensional and has over 21 mil owed over 3 more yrs. The 3 1st rd picks they got, they made worst alone by participating in a trade whete everyone else improves, they will all be in the 20s and you have to wait til 2017 for the Lakers pick because of the Nash trade. They got Harkless and Vucevic. Congrats, because you did not get lottery picks or lottery talent, did not move Turk's contract, did not get either All Star who moved in the deal. Yea they will suck next yr, but they will still jave a high payroll

 

[mjgreatxii]

I hope the bulls suck, so they can come back with a lottery pick and get shabaazz. D-rose with an actual guard to go along with noah would be nice.

 

[michigan]

Not uncle Charlie!   Hes gonna have a bounce back year this season. 

 

[mmg]

It doesn't CP. They took on Afflalo who has 31mil over 4 yrs left to be an above average dr
efender and open shot makets, literally gets his shot blocked every time he drivrs. Harrington is well pasy his prime, also very 1 dimensional and has over 21 mil owed over 3 more yrs. The 3 1st rd picks they got, they made worst alone by participating in a trade whete everyone else improves, they will all be in the 20s and you have to wait til 2017 for the Lakers pick because of the Nash trade. They got Harkless and Vucevic. Congrats, because you did not get lottery picks or lottery talent, did not move Turk's contract, did not get either All Star who moved in the deal. Yea they will suck next yr, but they will still jave a high payroll

I'm saying, they got a worse cap situation when adding Affalo and no lottery pics, as it stands not that bad to compete for the first overall pick ESP playing in the east they didn't even blow up the team properly and when adding Nelson on a 3 year deal :x

 

[pmatic]

Do I have to mention how lucky you have to be to be in OKC's position?

Orlando would have to hit on nearly every draft pick for the next three to four years and make shrewd signings.

 

[mmg]

Do I have to mention how lucky you have to be to be in OKC's position?

Orlando would have to hit on nearly every draft pick for the next three to four years and make shrewd signings.

People don't understand that.... OKC success is based on luck/scouting. they've hit on their drafting and signings, and no matter how much draft / scouting you do there's always some luck involved.

 

[Master Zik]

MMG's whole Brook is the 3rd best center in the league reminds me of JA's Beaubois is the 2nd best shot blocking guard in the league talk.

 

[thegoldenchild]

People don't understand that.... OKC success is based on luck/scouting. they've hit on their drafting and signings, and no matter how much draft / scouting you do there's always some luck involved.

that is BS. because every team does scouting and every team wants to get the best player possible. it's just that you never know which player will become a great player of meet their expectations. there are hundreds of great college players, but it doesnt mean they will become great pros.. so it has nothing to do with scouting

 

[IATT]

Do I have to mention how lucky you have to be to be in OKC's position?
Orlando would have to hit on nearly every draft pick for the next three to four years and make shrewd signings.

yup.. like MMG said people really don't understand.. and the way some NBA talking heads speak, i really dont get how they believe it's such an easy formula to duplicate

OKC turned 4 top 5 picks into:

durant - this was an obvious pick at number 2.. with oden going 1st)

jeff green - i kinda always thought this was a miss step, since i saw him as a 3 and saw durant as a 3.. but i get what they were going for (also looking back on that draft, there werent a ton of better NON RISKY options)

westbrook - a good amount of draft folks thought this was a reach at the time

harden - pick was questioned heavily until recently when he picked up his play after the green trade.. basically because curry and tyreke did well their rookie years (funny how this worked out)

then they got ibaka at pick 24

then it was the little things like:

trading for thabo

signing collison to an NFL like contract (13 mill for the first year, where they had a ton of cap space.. then 2 mill per after that)

trading for maynor

trading for cook

having the cap room to be able to increase perkins contract THEN have it qualify for the extension he wanted

 

[mronegative]

Do I have to mention how lucky you have to be to be in OKC's position?

Orlando would have to hit on nearly every draft pick for the next three to four years and make shrewd signings.

That's a real argument. That however, was not what MMG was trying to say.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

In regards to OKC, any team trying to "model" their rebuilding plan to the tee is playing a stupid strategy. It's impossible to duplicate. The Thunder got two perfect picks in a row, plus two other good ones. Most teams don't get one good one.

Durant = superstar. Not just game, but the perfect work ethic, personality, and class.
Westbrook = way better than expected. He could be a top 3 or 5 point guard right now, and this was a guy surrounded by a million questions.
Harden = plays his role perfectly (except for the Finals meltdown). Could end up being the third straight perfect pick.
Green = was a decent player, but it was important to start the rebuild off by pairing another young guy with Durant instead of Ray Allen.
Ibaka = special find

That's insane. There was probably great scouting, research, and deliberation, but a lot of it has to do with luck. Sitting there at the NBA Draft, there was probably 10% chance that Westbrook's career path would follow Derrick Rose (star) and 90% it would be more like Jammer Nelson (solid but far from anything special). That may not be a great analogy, but you get the picture.

In a span of 3 years, OKC sucked almost on purpose and made 3 game-changing picks. The Sacramento Kings have sucked for almost 7 years, gotten high lottery picks several years in a row, and STILL suck. The Kings are more indicitave of what happens to teams who suck for several years.

 

[bigmike23]

It doesn't CP. They took on Afflalo who has 31mil over 4 yrs left to be an above average dr
efender and open shot makets, literally gets his shot blocked every time he drivrs. Harrington is well pasy his prime, also very 1 dimensional and has over 21 mil owed over 3 more yrs. The 3 1st rd picks they got, they made worst alone by participating in a trade whete everyone else improves, they will all be in the 20s and you have to wait til 2017 for the Lakers pick because of the Nash trade. They got Harkless and Vucevic. Congrats, because you did not get lottery picks or lottery talent, did not move Turk's contract, did not get either All Star who moved in the deal. Yea they will suck next yr, but they will still jave a high payroll

they can cut harrington next year and save money because his contract is not guarantee the last 2 years and it has been said it would be better to keep hedo's contract because u can cut him next year and save more money.

 

[mmg]

That's what people don't understand, I'm tired of hearing the OKC "route" analogy thrown around, they got lucky combined wig their scouting that they hit on all those picks, because if you go back to that Draft with durant / oden guess what? 99/100 times Seattle is taking oden if they have the first overall pick. They lucked out durant fell in their laps

 

[mr j 858]

In regards to OKC, any team trying to "model" their rebuilding plan to the tee is playing a stupid strategy. It's impossible to duplicate. The Thunder got two perfect picks in a row, plus two other good ones. Most teams don't get one good one.
Durant = superstar. Not just game, but the perfect work ethic, personality, and class.
Westbrook = way better than expected. He could be a top 3 or 5 point guard right now, and this was a guy surrounded by a million questions.
Harden = plays his role perfectly (except for the Finals meltdown). Could end up being the third straight perfect pick.
Green = was a decent player, but it was important to start the rebuild off by pairing another young guy with Durant instead of Ray Allen.
Ibaka = special find
That's insane. There was probably great scouting, research, and deliberation, but a lot of it has to do with luck. Sitting there at the NBA Draft, there was probably 10% chance that Westbrook's career path would follow Derrick Rose (star) and 90% it would be more like Jammer Nelson (solid but far from anything special). That may not be a great analogy, but you get the picture.
In a span of 3 years, OKC sucked almost on purpose and made 3 game-changing picks. The Sacramento Kings have sucked for almost 7 years, gotten high lottery picks several years in a row, and STILL suck. The Kings are more indicitave of what happens to teams who suck for several years.

This is where people who say "Man I don't know why Orlando didn't take offer of Lopez, Humphries, and 4 future 1st picks instead of 4 way trade with the Lakers, Sixers, Magic, Nuggets trade". Because that Nets deal would have been so much better.

It wouldn't have been a better deal than what Orlando settled for in the end.

Those 4 future 1st round picks even if they weren't lottery protected would have been in the mid to late 1st round. Not lottery picks.While at the same time having Lopez & Humphries, JRich's bad contracts on the books.

 

[mmg]

If we remove Lopez from the equation, they would've gotten 4 picks, maybe 1 or 2 turned into lottery picks (depending if they got the cavs / another team in the deal) and humps becomes a trade chip after this season because he's 12 Millie coming off the books, maybe that nets you another 1st rounder / young player, fine they don't move J-Rich, but affalos contract is longer and just as bad as J-Richs.