Official NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread

[solarius49]

If you think Vince Carter is a hall of famer then the HOF truly holds no value, and it's clear that's what is exactly wrong with the HOF.

Won't surprise me tho, Reggie Miller made it.

I disagree, and not just because I'm a Pacer fan. If you watched Reggie's career, and didnt look at the stats, you would probably say he belongs in the HOF. Most Knicks fans I know agree as well.

 

[antidope]

That's what I don't like though. People put way too much into face value and just looking at the numbers. The game has evolved and the numbers don't always mean the same things from one era to the next. Stats stats stats. That's all a lot of people care about. Where did it get him though?

I like Vince. I just don't see it though. His cousin...He's who I don't like (from a basketball standpoint).

what exactly is the hall of fame supposed to be about then? Prestige plays one part...but stats play a very important part.

If it didn't....then CP would be right in thinking Robert Horry has a case.

In a league that's been around for 70 years...the fact he'll finish in the top 25 of scorers all time is certainly an accomplishment.

Seriously. People are really not putting this into perspective. This is a league that has had 10s of thousands of people walk through it. To score more points than 24 other people is a monumentous accomplishment that deserves recognition. Theyre empty buckets that got him nowhere, but its not something that everyone could have done.

 

[pmatic]

They got Phil Knight in the HOF. Enough said.

Vince should get in eventually.

 

[mmg]

Nike was / is one of the reasons basketball is where it's at.

Maybe not the main but, but it did push.

From marketing to global exposure as well.

 

[do be doo]

How the San Antonio SPURS defended Kyrie Irving better than anyone ever has

And there was also this defense on the Cavaliers' final play:

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1442099/kyriederp.gif[/QUOTE]

:hat

 

[651akathepaul]

Yeah...I can see the argument. After re-evaluating my original stance, I'll give him more credit than I initially did. The problem I have is how unclear the basketball HOF is when it seems the biggest criteria is "a contribution to the game." That's way too broad.

I think the biggest thing that plays in Vince's favor is his playoff #'s and how he carried some of those teams beyond the first round. It brings into question, in my mind, how people relate this to Tracy Mcgrady, because he's Vince but without any playoff success.

It then becomes...Tracy gets in so then Vince should get in because "just look at the numbers." Well, what did those numbers get them exactly? It's just blurry to me.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

^^^ How exactly is Griffin "abusing" anything? He's just trying to make plays. It's not up to him how the whistle blows. And he's been playing the same way his whole career, but nobody complained when he was a rookie because the Clippers weren't good.

Does Kevin Durant "abuse" the system because he gets a foul called on almost any contact he draws? I don't think so. He's just playing. Same goes for Griffin.

tell me you didn't see him fall down in front of parsons and get the foul bro

maybe you can't/don't want to see it because you're a fan. When artest does things like that I find it funny but I will at least admit that he's dirty/sneaky.

Can you admit blake is sneaky?

 

[addict4sneakers]

That's what I don't like though. People put way too much into face value and just looking at the numbers. The game has evolved and the numbers don't always mean the same things from one era to the next. Stats stats stats. That's all a lot of people care about. Where did it get him though?


I like Vince. I just don't see it though. His cousin...He's who I don't like (from a basketball standpoint).

what exactly is the hall of fame supposed to be about then? Prestige plays one part...but stats play a very important part.

If it didn't....then CP would be right in thinking Robert Horry has a case.

In a league that's been around for 70 years...the fact he'll finish in the top 25 of scorers all time is certainly an accomplishment.

Seriously. People are really not putting this into perspective. This is a league that has had 10s of thousands of people walk through it. To score more points than 24 other people is a monumentous accomplishment that deserves recognition. Theyre empty buckets that got him nowhere, but its not something that everyone could have done.

empty buckets? he spent half of his prime leading teams to the playoffs.
you don't score 25k points on 'empty buckets'

use the term empty buckets to describe corey maggette or kevin martin, but not vince.

 

[Coupé It]

What is the HOF supposed to be about then? 

Unless you were an international and college superstar (winnings national titles or gold medals) a HOFer in my eyes should first be determined by stats, but almost just as important are championships/playoff experience.

Then you absolutely have to look at how many all nba-teams that player has made. I think that is one of the most important awards given because it truly shows you how important and how good that player was to league, during his era. I would say a hall of famer should make an All-NBA team 5 times, at least, shows consistency. (Vince Carter made it twice and it was never a 1st team)

Vince Carter may have the overall career stats in the end but he does not have the championship and playoff experience (in fact I think the Nets got worse once they traded for him after making consecutive finals). He's never made it to the finals.

Do you want to grant a guy a seat on the historical hall of fame for never being a consistent top 15 player? For being top 25 in career points because he stuck it out in the NBA longer than most and was mediocre for more than half of his career? Without having the playoff/championship awards?

That's a heavy, No, in the case for Vince Carter.

 

[pmatic]

It's hard to argue that the perception of Carter has really been wrong. His effort level did fall off when he wanted out of Toronto, even as he collected giant paychecks. He flopped in Phoenix, and those two missed free throws against Boston are only the most glaring lowlights in his career postseason underperformance. He has shot 40.2 percent or worse from the field in five of his seven trips to the playoffs, though he was productive in the other two — especially during a masterful 2005-06 run with the Nets. His playoff issues have given rise to the opinion around the league, including among his peers, that Carter is "too nice" to win, and that he was perhaps pressing in his quest to bring a title to the Magic.

Is all of it — the Toronto disgrace, the postseason flops, etc. — enough to keep him out of the Hall of Fame? It looked like it a year or so ago, when Carter appeared on his way out with career numbers that were very nice, but that did not quite confer Springfield lock status upon him. But he's averaging 13 per game now, shooting 42 percent from deep, and playing legitimately solid defense. He'll at least approach 22,000 career points this season, and with a guaranteed deal for next season, he has a shot to reach 23,000 if he stays healthy. Only 13 players in NBA/ABA history have eclipsed 22,000 points, 5,000 rebounds, and 4,000 assists; Carter, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce will make it 16 shortly, and a few others — Clyde Drexler, Gary Payton, Larry Bird — barely missed. Eleven of those 13 players are in the Hall of Fame, and the other two are Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant. There is obviously some major cherry-picking involved in selecting those numbers; Carter will barely make the rebound and assist totals, while several players, including Dirk Nowitzki, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Patrick Ewing, have blown away the 22,000/5,000 feat by a wide margin while falling short on the dimes. Still, the numbers are impressive, and if you like plus/minus stuff, Carter's teams have usually scored much more efficiently with him on the floor — and defended at about the same level with him on the floor as on the bench.

Numbers aren't everything; that's why Antawn Jamison, a horrid defender for much of his career, is unlikely to get in. Carter has long had the counting stats and regular-season numbers. It was the other stuff that had fans, players, and media members justifiably holding their noses when it came to Carter's Hall candidacy.

And that's fair. Carter has earned that skepticism. But that shouldn't blind us to a fun little late-career evolution happening in Dallas — the kind of evolution a lot of players never figure out. Only 21 of the 87 first-rounders in Carter's draft class and the subsequent two are even active in the league. Carter is still surprising us.

Link

 

[solarius49]

What is the HOF supposed to be about then? 

Unless you were an international and college superstar (winnings national titles or gold medals) a HOFer in my eyes should first be determined by stats, but almost just as important are championships/playoff experience.

Then you absolutely have to look at how many all nba-teams that player has made. I think that is one of the most important awards given because it truly shows you how important and how good that player was to league, during his era. I would say a hall of famer should make an All-NBA team 5 times, at least, shows consistency. (Vince Carter made it twice and it was never a 1st team)

Vince Carter may have the overall career stats in the end but he does not have the championship and playoff experience (in fact I think the Nets got worse once they traded for him after making consecutive finals). He's never made it to the finals.

Do you want to grant a guy a seat on the historical hall of fame for never being a consistent top 15 player? For being top 25 in career points because he stuck it out in the NBA longer than most and was mediocre for more than half of his career? Without having the playoff/championship awards?

That's a heavy, No, in the case for Vince Carter.

Tyler Hansbrough

 

[SORIANOTRON]

Not sure if posted, but...

legit team player right here.

 

[CP1708]

Vince has led the league in 2 categories his whole career. Games played in 99, and 07. That's it.

21,800 points
5,200 rebounds
3,900 assists

21, 5, 4 for his career.

Playoffs, he has

1,300 points
370 rebounds
250 assists

22, 6, 4 for his career


He's been out of the first round 4 times, out in the first round 3 times. He's a 41% shooter in the playoffs during that time. He did have 3 solid looking playoff seasons, but his totals are very, very underwhelming.

0 All NBA first teams
0 All NBA Defense
0 MVP's
0 Titles
0 Finals played in

Never one time finished in the top 10 in MVP voting.

His biggest accomplishment imo is his world famous gif when he's about to shoot some key playoff free throws for the Magic in which you could literally see the fear in his soul. For some damn reason, my gif is frozen and won't load on here, hopefully someone will see this and post it up for me. I laugh every time I see it.

 

[proshares]

Him leading the league in GP should vault him into the HOF of any sport.

 

[marath0n]

^^^ How exactly is Griffin "abusing" anything? He's just trying to make plays. It's not up to him how the whistle blows. And he's been playing the same way his whole career, but nobody complained when he was a rookie because the Clippers weren't good.

Does Kevin Durant "abuse" the system because he gets a foul called on almost any contact he draws? I don't think so. He's just playing. Same goes for Griffin.

tell me you didn't see him fall down in front of parsons and get the foul bro

maybe you can't/don't want to see it because you're a fan. When artest does things like that I find it funny but I will at least admit that he's dirty/sneaky.

Can you admit blake is sneaky?

I'm a fan and I'll admit that Blake is sneaky as ****, but what superstar isn't? Look at Kobe, Lebron, KD, etc. They have mastered the art of using sounds and body movement to illicit whistles that are sometimes unwarranted.

 

[Bert.]

WTH is leading the league in games played?

 

[CP1708]

WTH is leading the league in games played?

When you play every game that season.

Those are the only two things he ever led the league in, ever. Which says a little something imo.

 

[japanair21]

I'd rather have 21,000 points and a well rounded player than ride on the coattails of three dynasties.

Horry on the Raptors would be a nobody.

 

[CP1708]

3 dynasties ALL impacted by what Horry did.

 

[japanair21]

3 dynasties ALL impacted by what Horry did.

Most overrated player in NBA history.

 

[mmg]

Interesting discussion.

VC to the Hall for his milestones

Big shot for his game changing shots

 

[Deleted member 38182]

3 dynasties ALL impacted by what Horry did.

Naaaahhhh

 

[lawdog1]

I'm a fan and I'll admit that Blake is sneaky as ****, but what superstar isn't? Look at Kobe, Lebron, KD, etc. They have mastered the art of using sounds and body movement to illicit whistles that are sometimes unwarranted.

This. It is what it is. I don't see Blake doing anymore to draw calls than any other superstars and less in some cases he does less.

 

[solarius49]

Devean George for the HOF!

 

[ag 47]

Most overrated player in NBA history.

That would be Kobe Bryant.