OFFICIAL LAKERS 2009/2010 (57-25) 2009-2010 CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

I'm not even going to comment right now on my opinion of what Pau said, because y'all aren't gonna like it.

I'll speak on it eventually, but not now.

Those of you that always (and only) quote me whenever you've perceived my reply on Kobe as negative, you'll just have to wait. You got a misinterpreted signal with this reply.

I'm hoping (in vain, I know) that someone else will say what I have to say on it before I do, so maybe I can just piggyback their words.

*shrugs*

I got your back Ska, watch this................



*(back in a minute, need to get something from another thread)

  

 

[CP1708]

Im Not You wrote:

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Originally Posted by JD617

 record and offered politically correct – and believably authentic – commentary (“I’m proud of him; I congratulate him

 

[iminchucks5]

kobes got teammates...look for them dammit

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Fro B Giant:

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I read some of the responses here and wonder if people watch the games. I mean saying Bynum is bad because of his stat line. Here's a stat you forgot, he shot 3 shots tonight.
You forget that he isn't the guy the Lakers go to to score. He is like the 3rd or fourth option to score on the team. If the Lakers would use him the way they should then he would get a lot more points and rebounds.
You forget he is 22, what were/are you doing at 22? How is your career coming along? Are you the man at your job? People, perspective!
You forget he does average 15.6 PPG and 8.3 RPG, shots almost 57% in 31 Mins per game

How well does Pau play?
17 PPG, 11 RPG, 53% FG, in 36 mins per contest.

Wow Pau must suck too huh!

Watch some basketball games, don't just rely on stats. Even when relying on stats please inform yourself before posting.

#1. I;ve already said before that I don't care about age when talking about professional athletes. If you're not ready, you shouldn't be there. I'm not going to compliment a 6-year old who makes it on the Lakers and proceeds to play like we would expect to 6-year-old to. You might say 'But he's 6! Give him time! What were you doing at 6?!', but not me. I'll just say 'He sucks', and leave age where it belongs in the assessment: out of it.

#2. That's on him for only taking 3 shots.

If that's the case then Kobe sucked at one point and we should have gotten rid of that bum! It takes time for players to develop, if you don't like that as a fan then tough, it's just the way it is.
Your argument is terrible btw.

 

[darthska]

CP1708:

---

So um, we're sure the problem is with the guy that is out there every night, as opposed to the guy that took 17 games off to rest his hammies? 

That same guy that took the 17 games off got a nice fat extension on his contract too I see.   

What was the collective opinion (even by Bristol!) of the fact that Shaq feuded with ALL of his talented wings? People were quick to point out that there were surface smiles that hid real troubles between Penny + Shaq, Kobe + Shaq, and Wade + Shaq when he went to Cleveland, suggesting that there might be a problem someday with LeBron + Shaq.

Kobe is nowhere near as traveled as Shaq has been (I definitely give Kobe credit for this), so he hasn't had the opportunity to have as many examples as Shaq has when you look at whether or not Kobe's talented bigs complain about him. But he does have 2 that we can use... and they've both said the same thing ('You shoot too much.')

And I have a problem with the phrase 'the problem' in the suggestion that "Kobe's shooting is the problem." I'm not saying it's THE problem... but one? Yes. Always has been, apparently always will be.

I'm close to promising myself to literally ignore any response to what I just said.

Enh... I'll check back after LOST, see whose eggs and tomatoes I'll have to clean off, now that the real signal has actually been shined into the sky.

 

[CP1708]

^
No argument from me, Kobe shoots too much.  *shrugs* 

Pau gets panicked under the bucket against the Cavs with the game on the line too much. 
Pau got the chair pulled out from under him by Sheed 5 times the other day
Pau misses too much time for minor ailments on company time.  (another big man trait me thinks)
Pau gets pushed around by way too many other big men in the leage
Pau has missed a lot of free throws lately (as has Kobe)
Pau whined and cried a lot in Memphis. 
Pau has been fumbling the ball a lot like his middle name is Kwame. 


See, Kobe shoots too much, but Pau and co shrink too much.  With the game on the line, Kobe gets asked to win the game, he does it, they all love him and wanna hug him.  He passes with the game on the line, and Brent Barry and E Snow almost came to blows over it.  Pau starts crying about shots.  Artest shoots it like a hot potato. 

But Kobe shoots too much.  lol.  As I said, I fully expect a 4 shot game coming from him soon., to remind everybody of WHY Kobe shoots too much. 

Pau and Kobe are diff then Shaq and Kobe.  Kobe respects the hell outta Pau.  They will work it out.  Shaq and Kobe couldn't, I think Pau and Kobe can.  It's Laker drama, nothin new around here. 

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by CP1708

^
No argument from me, Kobe shoots too much.  *shrugs* 

Pau gets panicked under the bucket against the Cavs with the game on the line too much. 
Pau got the chair pulled out from under him by Sheed 5 times the other day
Pau misses too much time for minor ailments on company time.  (another big man trait me thinks)
Pau gets pushed around by way too many other big men in the leage
Pau has missed a lot of free throws lately (as has Kobe)
Pau whined and cried a lot in Memphis. 
Pau has been fumbling the ball a lot like his middle name is Kwame. 


See, Kobe shoots too much, but Pau and co shrink too much.  With the game on the line, Kobe gets asked to win the game, he does it, they all love him and wanna hug him.  He passes with the game on the line, and Brent Barry and E Snow almost came to blows over it.  Pau starts crying about shots.  Artest shoots it like a hot potato. 

But Kobe shoots too much.  lol.  As I said, I fully expect a 4 shot game coming from him soon., to remind everybody of WHY Kobe shoots too much. 

Pau and Kobe are diff then Shaq and Kobe.  Kobe respects the hell outta Pau.  They will work it out.  Shaq and Kobe couldn't, I think Pau and Kobe can.  It's Laker drama, nothin new around here. 

I also agree that Kobe is going back to shooting too much. The problem with the whole team is they lack intensity as a unit. I don't know if I am going to see them the way they played against the Magic last time or the way they play nonchalant.
It's not that they are not capable of winning with this team, they have already won it all with this team. Mentally they are not there yet, winning the second championship of a back to back is the hardest one to get. This team, right now, doesn't look like they will, unless they change the culture again.

Kobe shooting less bodes better for the team as a whole. He could have shot more against Boston but I think he realized later in the game they had a better chance at winning if he passed out of the double. They also changed the location of where they had him posting up, instead of posting up on the wing they moved him to the corner of the key where it would be harder for Boston to double him. I hope they use this in the future if he is getting doubled.

I like when they play Pau about 20-25 feet out rather than in the post depending on the match-up. The way they played him against Boston suits him better when he is matched up with someone more physical. Doing this allows Bynum to operate in the post freely and it kept their bigs from getting defensive rebounds.

To me, a large difference in this season is the bench not contributing. Last year they would increase leads, this year they lose leads.
There are a quite a few things that the Lakers need to fix before I think they would be ready to get another ring, let's hope they fix them.

 

[jbone2308]

Kobe is shooting too much plain and simple. I liked how he played against the Raptors and Boston and if he shot well against Boston what a game he would have had!

Pau needs to not use the media, I believe he thinks he's better than what he is and all the praise KOBE gives him such as calling him the best forward in the world went to his head.

Pau needs to shut the hell up and quit being Gasoft. Simple as that and do something with the ball. At least Bynum decided to play big against the Celtic front line. Gasol only plays well against undersized players that don't bang.

Kobe-stop shooting so much and play an all around game with no less than 7 dimes.

Pau-shut up and play what you are paid.

 

[jus3]

Every Laker fan on here knows that KB takes stupid shots, but in some cases he's put in that situation.  Sometimes the offense is just stagnant and Kobe is there to bail them out, or the shot clock is running down and he has to chuck one up.. Other times, he takes ridiculous fadeaways over 2 or 3 defenders and I'm staring at the TV like

It's obvious Pau is frustrated with the way things have been going.  Missing FT's at the end of the Toronto game, getting benched in the Boston game, not getting touches, being called a soft #@$@$, etc... He just has to get over it and get ready for the long haul.

 

[MVP]

First off, I'll just say that Kobe at times this season has forced the issue and shot too much. But most of the time it's been out of necessity. I mean no one else wants to take the initiative to assert themselves, so sometimes he's forced to do it. I mean looking at it, he's taking about 2 more shots per game than last year, but is avg. 2 more points than he did last year and as well at about the same shooting percentage and he's playing about 3 more minutes per game this year too. U forget that Pau has been out for a 1/3 of the season so far so that could account for some of that, he's had to take on more of the scoring burden.

But Pau really just needs to shut up and play ball, when he's gotten the ball lately he hasn't done much with it. Go up like a man and stop whining and maybe Kobe will pass you the ball if he knows you will finish. KB really takes what the defense gives him, he's been more than willing to pass out of double teams to the open man, but they still have to hit the shot or at least catch the ball (looking at you Pau). But if the defense is going to play him one on one, why not let the best isolation player in the game go to work. It's a higher percentage play than letting Ron try to dribble or Pau going against anyone with a set of testicles out there (pause).

It doesn't make sense to just pass for the sake of passing, there has to be some kind of positive result coming from that and lately it hasn't been.

 

[kb8sandiego]

I'm gonna be real, a whole lot of complaining going on here for a team that only has 12 losses. We are freaking spoiled.

With that said, can we get rid of Sasha already?

 

[notorious 858]

[h1][/h1]

[h1]Kobe Bryant is No. 1 in points, but that's all[/h1]

The Lakers are more than a basketball team, they are a social glue,connecting a diverse city with brightly splashed layers ofentertainment and excellence.

The Lakers are not aboutindividual statistics, they are about team championships, the annualpush by parts that are never greater than the whole, the quiet ownerwho never closes his wallet, the humble late announcer who never misseda game.

The Lakers have become Southern California's strongestand most enduring sports fabric not only because they win, but becauseof how they continually sacrifice their egos and agenda in theattainment of that victory.

When the Lakers drop a bedsheet above the floor at Staples Center and adorn it with, "Our team," fans howl because they believe.

Theybelieve it is their team because it is the kind of team they wouldcreate for themselves, built with as much hard work as Hollywoodlights, filled not only with showmen but neighbors.

Which brings us to Kobe Bryant's 25,208 points.

Inthe blink of a wide eye, it seems, the kid made Lakers history Mondaynight, setting the franchise career scoring record against Memphis,passing the great Jerry West in his 14th season, Mr. Clutch outdone by,well, Mr. Clutch.

It was a monumental achievement in anorganization where greatness is an expectation, and there are morechampionship rings than fingers. It was a third-quarter fastbreak dunkthat provided first an exclamation point, then a question.

Does this make Kobe Bryant the greatest Laker ever?

Spoiler alert.

No.

Scoringthe most points doesn't make Bryant the greatest Laker any more thandriving in the most runs makes Steve Garvey the greatest Dodger.

It is about more than that, and Bryant may get there yet, but he's not there now.

Hemay be the best player in the current NBA, and could wind up as thebest player in NBA history, but amid the rich history of his own team,Bryant remains third.

Magic Johnson is first. His fivechampionships are one more than Bryant has won, his revolutionizing ofthe assist changed basketball, and his leadership in community businessdevelopment has changed several inner cities. All this while serving asa worthy pioneer in the battle against the former stigma and shameassociated with HIV.

West is second. He won only onechampionship as a player, but then as club executive helped build eightmore. As a player, he was such a solid presence, the league's logo is adrawing of his silhouette. As a general manager, he's the one whobrought Bryant here in the first place.

Bryant is third, barelyahead of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Elgin Baylor. It's third with abullet. It's third with still no stop in sight.

But the twoRushmore-like figures will be difficult for him to scale. Bryant willnever be completely embraced like Magic, or completely revered likeWest, because what makes him so great is what makes everyone else sounnerved. His killer instinct can be unsettling. His serious demeanorcan be intimidating.

And will his teammates ever stop carping about how he doesn't pass them the ball?

Howtypical that on a night he breaks the record, the Lakers lose and oneof his teammates throws a dart at him for shooting too much.

Ithappened Monday after the 95-93 loss in which Bryant took 28 of theLakers' 73 shots, an unwieldy 38%. At least one buddy couldn't evenhonor him for the record without questioning him for the shots.

"I'm proud of him, I congratulate him," Pau Gasol said. "Now we can focus on winning games again."

Gasol was just getting started.

"Obviously we're not making a conscious effort on pounding the ball inside," Gasol said. "So we settled a little bit too much."

Aday later, with Bryant not available for comment, both Gasol and DerekFisher reiterated the idea that sometimes even the greats can try to betoo great.

Gasol talked about getting more players involved, andFisher even invoked exact statistics from the previous night, sayingthat one player taking 38% of the shots is just too much.

"This is a tough one for me, guys," Fisher said. "But winning is what it comes down to."

We'veheard this before. I've spouted it before. But enough already. Bryant'sball hogging has become four-time championship hogging. For now, histeammates should stop moaning and count their money.

You wantthe ring? You accept Bryant's need for the bling. You want him to havethe energy and attention required to make those last-second shots? Thenyou put up with all the earlier ones.

"From the time I took overthis team till probably the time I leave, that's always been an issue,"Coach Phil Jackson said Tuesday about Bryant's shooting. "One of ourfirst team meetings was about the fact that Kobe wasn't passing theball . . . that whole crew, they wanted to sit down and talk about itas a team."

But Jackson said he has no problems with him now.

"That'sa fine line that he has to balance himself," Jackson said. "We had atalk about three years ago when he went off on that rampage. . . . He'sbeen very good since then."

He was very good Monday night. WhatGasol failed to mention was that, by not pounding the ball inside,Bryant made 57% of his shots and scored 44 points and could have wonthe game if he didn't actually pass up a final shot.

What Gasolalso failed to mention is that despite the loss, the Lakers remain thebest team in basketball and the favorite to defend their championship.

I can think of 25,208 reasons why.
Link:

http://www.latimes.com/sp...b03,0,717519,full.column

Good article. I agree with a lot Plashcke says on that article.

 

[notorious 858]

My final 2 cents on the the road trip.

A lot of people on here have been complaining and saying the trip was a disappointment, but honestly the 3 games we lost on the trip @ Cleveland, Toronto, and Memphis were all by 3 points or less and the Lakers were in each game and could have won those games if it weren't for Pau bricking those 2 FT's against the Cavs, Kobe had a decent look and the shot looked good on the final shot against the Raptors, the game against the Grizzlies Kobe made the right decision on the final play and Ron Ron had a good look at the final shot which also looked good.

Also a lot has been made about Pau complaining about Kobe shooting to much during the last game, but honestly Pau was playing like crap and was looking soft against his own brother that night, really nobody except Kobe & Ron Ron showed up to play during that game, Bynum & Pau clearly had tired legs, DFish couldn't hit a shot to save his life, Odom was playing Odumb again.

Honestly also Pau made the allstar team as a reserve this season which I think he didn't deserve this season regardless of his 2 hamstring injuries. Pau just hasn't been money and dominant in the post like he was last year during the championship run.

 

[goldmember]

^ Exactly.

Pau played like a P this road trip plain and simple. I was so mad watching him against the Celtics..it's like watching a replay of 2008 finals

 

[straight lux]

Originally Posted by Goldmember

^ Exactly.

Pau played like a P this road trip plain and simple. I was so mad watching him against the Celtics..it's like watching a replay of 2008 finals

that's exactly why bynum was in and pau wasn't. but then again, i was a little worried about rebounding towards the end because pau is definitely a better rebounder than andrew. whatever, we still got a W thanks to kobe

 

[CP1708]

For the cheap seats one last time, let's look at the timing of this.  Pau cries like a girl after a game they lose in which it was the second of a back to back, and by my count, 2 players actually showed up to play.  Kobe, and Ron.  Everyone else looked like a bum.  Pau was upset, and said maybe now we can go back to playing team ball.  Sounds strange doesn't it?  I mean, from the start of the trip, they let the game go against Cleveland, in which Pau played the worst game he ever has as a Laker.  Kobe forced shots to try to make up for Pau, but whatever.  40 seconds left, KOBE hit the shot to tie the game up, Pau was the one that couldn't score from 2 feet under the basket all by himself, with the ball in his hands. 
They beat the Knicks the next night.  Kobe scored 61 the year before, this year 27.  He takes 24 shots, but has 6 dimes.  Then Toronto they lose after leading for 47 minutes, Kobe misses a desperation shot at the buzzer, he has 27 again, on 24 shots, this time with 9 dimes. 
Then the Lakers win the next 4 games.  Kobe shoots 15, 15, 22, and 20 times.  Making 8, 10, 10, and 8 shots. He adds yet ANOTHER injury to his body with a sprained ankle vs Philly, but still comes out in the second half to close out the win.  He adds 8, 7, 3, and 6 dimes in these games.  (the 3 being the game he hurts his ankle vs Philly) 
He hits the game winner vs Boston.  They don't win that game if not for Kobe's shot.  Pau, doesn't play much at all in the 4th quarter of the game, he is being outplayed by Bynum big time. 

Then Memphis.  Kobe shoots 28 times.  He makes 16.  The Lakers fall behind when he is on the bench by 10, he comes back in, and gets them to down 2 at the half.  Kobe is the ONLY starter on the team with a plus rating in .   He is + 5.  Pau is -7.  Pau has 4 fouls, in 30 minutes of play.  Kobe plays 40 minutes.  And yet with all the extra shooting Kobe does in the game, he still gets the same 3 assists, and had the final pass of the game for Ron to brick a missed shot.  (a game we could have and should have won) 

So, what exactly is Pau crying about?  ONE game in which they didn't win, he claims "now we can go back to team basketball"  Forgive me for asking, but um, was Kobe shooting 30 times a game for 6 straight games to get the record or something?  He wasn't right?  Kobe got the record in the THIRD QUARTER vs Memphis.  And they went into the 4th quarter in a 1 point game.  Pau Gasol played half that quarter, and took ONE shot.  In the 4th qaurter of a close game, in which Kobe was already DONE with the record.  Kobe in that same 6 minutes of the 4th that Pau played was 4-6 including 2 3 pointers. 

So tell me Pau, what are you crying about?  Did someone go 0-8 or something in a quarter?  Did Kobe cost the team THIS game with his 60 percent shooting?  Did Kobe COST the Lakers in their 4 game winning streak when he averaged 18 shots a game for those 4 games, and wasn't by any means pressing for the record? 


Bottom line, if Kobe went out and shot 8 for 35 trying for the record, Pau can say whatever he wants.  Kobe was 16-28, got the stupid record out of the way in the THIRD GOD DAMN QUARTER and had his team in position to win a game on the road, in the second of a back to back against a playoff team, and almost got it for them.  Then after the game, a game in which Pau was HORRIBLE, he starts to complain about team basketball.  Yes Pau, it is a team game, how bout you help Kobe out in that game, instead of counting your shots so we could have won.  How would that be? 

Every @#$%^& time something goes wrong, we just go straight to blame Kobe.  The guy that has played just under 1200 games for the Lakers and gives it everything he has every game.  While Pau has played 200 games for us, and recently took 17 off to rest himself, and can not say the same about giving his all EVERY SINGLE GAME. 


You better play your @#$ off tonight Pau.  You better light the world on fire.  Otherwise, don't be on NT tomorrow.  

 

[westcoastsfinest]

pau is playing just like he did against the rockets last year

 

[MVP]

Bravo CP....

 

[darthska]

And I posite that a huge problem to having a 'take over often' type of talent is that it makes everyone on the team softer.

"Enh, we've got Kobe. We're fine."

I'm going to use the current Celtics (and Kendrick Perkins) and the Pistons of earlier in the decade (and Ben Wallace). To me, neither of those teams has a 'take over' guy, and they both play team ball. G'on and stop reading all you want now that I've mentioned the two teams that have beaten us in the Finals this decade.

I didn't do that on purpose, but whatever.

Anyways... put Pau on either of those teams, and we see a little bit of an improvement. Ben Wallace was a stud on that team. Offensively? No, but he was an All Star. But defensively, he was a beast underneath. Because there was no superstar to defer to, everyone on the team KNEW they HAD to contribute every night, they had a role and they HAD to fill it to win games. There was no mentality 'I'm the center, and some nights I'm alright, other nights I'm awesome, and sometimes I suck... but it's cool, 'cause we got that Kobe dude every night, whether I suck or not."

Same with Perkins. Yeah, when they won, they had Allen and Pierce and Garnett and Rondo, but none of them were (or are) takeover guys. And there are definitely times... a lot, actually... where I would rather have the Celtics' Perkins over the our Pau. Thing is, that should NEVER happen; no Perkins should ever be better than any Pau, not when you look at their skill sets.

But that mentality created by having a takeover guy affects MORE than just the offensive 'softness' of that players teammates. It hinders the overall attitude from everyone else that they HAVE to excel at something I order to win every night and ultimately win a championship. Instead, they feel they don't have to excel... 'cause they got that one guy.

And that's why I've never understood why Kobe has been so unwilling to be less dominant individually. I know that people have talked to him about all this over the years. Magic? West? Hell, Jordan? I know people have told him that his teammates over the years have definitely felt like they don't really need to be great.

I mean, think about yourselves. If you had talent and you were on the Pistons of earlier this decade, don't you think we'd see more of your talent flourish on that team than we would if you were on any team with Kobe? Don't you think that on Kobe's team, you would automatically... before even taking the court for the first time... take an obvious backseat to the guy who leads the franshise in scoring and has an 81 point game and all kinds of buzzer beaters and that killer instinct every night? Don't you think we would see less of your talent if you were his teammate?

And if you WERE more dominant than him (word to the self-proclaimed MDE) and you were willing to go out there and make your talent shine bright every night, there would most likely be problems between you and him (word to the him and the self-proclaimed MDE).

 

[noblekane]

kobe better not do one those temper tantrum butt hurt 2 shots the whole game routines... just play team ball !*% hole.... bynum shot 3 @@#!++ times last game??? are you @@#!++ kidding me? after being such a major key in the win against the celtics?? give this mother %@*!%% some touches please...

 

[thaboyfast]

La is aight. The road trip was very needed. It showed who had heart. Ron Ron actually played like he suppose too. We still good. Now we at home for some home cooking

 

[CP1708]

Noble, kinda hard for Bynum to get shots sitting on the bench with 5 fouls in 14 seconds. 

  Just saying. 

Ska, I hear what you're saying, and I suppose part of it may be true.  So then......um, Lebron's teammates?  Duncan's?  All teammates of elite players then.  What's their excuse? 

Jordan wasn't so friggin ridiculously, supremely talented that his teammates didn't go thru the motions thinking "MJ will take care of this game in the 4th quarter, let's just go run around and work up a sweat for a while"?  That never happened with the Bulls?  

  I mean, it is the same thing isn't it? 

Hey, I can point the finger and blame all I want, @#$% if Kobe hadn't missed FIVE free throws, that game coulda been different.  But what good does it do?  I just can not, for the life of me, get why Pau Gasol of all people, would call out a style of play (team ball) in a game where exactly TWO players came out and played hard.  Pau and Bynum had NINE fouls in just over 50 minutes.  Against Zach and his damn brother.  They got pushed around like nothing.  Now, is it because Memphis owns us?  Is it because we are scared of Memphis?  Or, could it be we played one hell of an emotional game against the Celtics, have been on the road for 2 weeks and now can see the plane warming up ready to take us home?  Which is more likely? 

But you come out and question the team captain, the best player in the game (or top 3, whatever) who by the way, did NOT go thru the motions in this game, even after he got the stupid record, he was out there TRYING TO WIN A GAME.  How smart is Pau there?  And don't even get me started on where PAU's head is when he has played so God damn soft for the last 2 weeks.  Don;t even get me started on him sitting out 17 @#$%^&* games.  But he's going to question the guy playing with a broken finger, and a sore ankle, and a sore elbow, and gettting over back issues?  Really?  That's his master plan? 

Wouldn't it have been nice for Kobe to leave the Spurs game IMMEDIATELY after his back acted up?  Gasol coulda carried the team right?  Oh, wait, Pau was in street clothes, sore inner thigh. 

  Wouldn't it have been nice for Kobe to then take the next game off, THE NEXT DAY IN DALLAS to rest, Pau could carry the team.  Oh, wait, Pau was in street clothes still.  So what did Kobe do?  Limp thru the game for 40 minutes, hit the go ahead basket with 28 seconds left, and go home with a win. 

Yes Pau, question that man.  Good idea genius. 



I don't give a @#$% about talent, roles, this that or the other, win damn basketball games.  Show up every night, play hard, give everything you got, win, go home.  End of the God damn story.  Don't cry, don't whine, just win.  Bynum, check cashed.  Pau, check cashed.  Odom, re-signed.  Artest, paid and brought in.  Kobe.........still waiting.  Of all these players, which one of them has EARNED EVERY GOD DAMN CENT FOR THE LA LAKERS?  EVERY SINGLE PENNY?  And yet, everyone else is paid, Kobe is waiting still.  Will he be rich?  Of course he will.  He'll get his.  But to sit on your perch, take one shot in the 4th quarter of a close game, the day after you had your @#$ on the pine of the 4th quarter of another close game, cash your check, and then question the one guy that is at worst responsible for you being 1-1 in those 2 games, and not 0-2.  It's just stupid.  It's mind numbing.  Pau has been great for this team.  He has really helped us out.   But this year (a year in which he should have come out HUNGRIER then ever to prove last year was no fluke, to get that back to back, a year in which he was rewarded with a ton of money) he has sat a third of the season, he has not improved in any aspect i can see, he doesn't look bulked up, he's been pushed around, and he is the one to stand up and question the one guy that fights every second of every game with more ailments then the rest of the team combined?  @#$%. 

 

[darthska]

You're going to hate in approximately 3 minutes, CP.

...

CP1708:

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Ska, I hear what you're saying, and I suppose part of it may be true.  So then......um, Lebron's teammates?
Name a legit All Star of LeBron's, throughout his career. Same thing; no one feels the need to really step up and play like they used to in HS and college, with that hunger and passion, because they have a guy that fills that 'willing, able, eager, and prepared to take over and dominate every night' role. And look: no legit All Star teammates, swept in the Finals.

CP1708:

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Duncan's?
He doesn't fill that role. You've substituted 'elite' where I said 'take over type of talent'. Duncan is arguably the greatest PF ever, but he's not a 'take the game over' type of guy.

CP1708:

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All teammates of elite players then.  What's their excuse?
'elite' =/= 'willing, able, eager, and prepared to take over and dominate every night'

D12 is elite, but you'd be an idiot of a teammate to rely on him to win your game very night.

CP1708:

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Jordan wasn't so friggin ridiculously, supremely talented that his teammates didn't go thru the motions thinking "MJ will take care of this game in the 4th quarter, let's just go run around and work up a sweat for a while"?  That never happened with the Bulls?  

  I mean, it is the same thing isn't it?
Was he? Yes... in the beginning of his career, hence The Jordan Rules book. But Kerr, Kukoc, Rodman, Longley, Harper... did they experience the same Jordan that filled that 'willing, able, eager, and prepared to take over and dominate every night' Jordan that tore through the league throughout the 80s? Nope.

CP1708:

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Hey, I can point the finger and blame all I want, @#$% if Kobe hadn't missed FIVE free throws, that game coulda been different.  But what good does it do?  I just can not, for the life of me, get why Pau Gasol of all people, would call out a style of play (team ball) in a game where exactly TWO players came out and played hard.
You're not getting what I'm saying. I'm speaking of a concept that what happened today is a result of yesterday. Making sure what happened today doesn't happen tomorrow doesn't begin at tomorrow's practice; it begins today, right now.

I'm suggesting that only 2 players showed up that particular game because there's a collective (and detrimental) understanding as a teammate of Kobe's that you don't HAVE to show up every night. Kukoc, Kerr, Pippen, Rodman, Big Ben, Chauncey, Sheed, Kendrick Perkins, Powe, etc.... they DON'T understand that taking a night off is o.k. because the team has that 'willing, able, eager, and prepared to take over and dominate every night' type of player. The understanding just doesn't exist on the teams they play[ed] for. The understanding was that EVERYONE has to show up EVERY night because FIVE positions are on the floor and NO ONE at ANY of those positions is going to be so dominant that 2 or 3 or 4 of the other positions can get bodied and everything will be alright.

CP1708:

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But you come out and question the team captain, the best player in the game (or top 3, whatever) who by the way, did NOT go thru the motions in this game, even after he got the stupid record, he was out there TRYING TO WIN A GAME.  How smart is Pau there?  And don't even get me started on where PAU's head is when he has played so God damn soft for the last 2 weeks.  Don;t even get me started on him sitting out 17 @#$%^&* games. 
I'm saying, maybe he knows already that it's o.k. to sit out 17 games, because there's that one guy on the team that really is responsible for winning, so as long as he's suiting up, it really doesn't matter who else does or doesn't.

CP1708:

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Wouldn't it have been nice for Kobe to leave the Spurs game IMMEDIATELY after his back acted up?  Gasol coulda carried the team right?
Again, I'm saying, maybe he knows he doesn't have to, not as long as he's on a team with Kobe.

CP1708:

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Oh, wait, Pau was in street clothes, sore inner thigh.
Because he knows that's alright, because he's not Kobe.

CP1708:

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Wouldn't it have been nice for Kobe to then take the next game off, THE NEXT DAY IN DALLAS to rest, Pau could carry the team.  Oh, wait, Pau was in street clothes still.
He doesn't have to carry the team; someone else does. He can wear street clothes, as long as that one guy isn't.

CP1708:

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So what did Kobe do?  Limp thru the game for 40 minutes, hit the go ahead basket with 28 seconds left, and go home with a win. 

Yes Pau, question that man.  Good idea genius.
I agree. I'm glad he said it. I hope he doesn't recant.

CP1708:

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I don't give a @#$% about talent, roles, this that or the other, win damn basketball games.
Sounds like you're a 'The ends justifies the means' type. I'm not. 'Win today and worry about tomorrow tomorrow' isn't me. 'Win today without sacrificing the possibility of winning tomorrow; is me, because what if tomorrow includes a broken Kobe foot? A team oriented understanding throughout the roster could stomach that, because a team oriented roster would already be used to playing through stretches where the superstar on the team has to sit through stretches of games because of back spasms or foul trouble or whatever. A team oriented roster would be prepared for the one superstar on the team to miss time.

What do you think this team would do if Kobe did decide to rest because of all these injuries?

We all know it would not be some miracle story like we're seeing in Portland and Houston. Houston's star players are freaking Ariza and... who? Scola? And they're playing nice, wishing they had a superstar like Melo or Wade or someone to get them a few more wins. Portland? They dress like 6 people every night.

This team, minus Kobe? Done. And this team, minus Kobe, really is a good team. Pau is good, Artest is good, Odom is good, and the bench could at least pull off decency, as is being done in Portland and Houston. But this team, minus Kobe, would be so much worse than Portland and Houston.

And that's because of the collective understanding that reliance on Kobe is the way things go... and it goes that way because of the way he plays, practices, interviews, and just who he is.

CP1708:

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Show up every night, play hard, give everything you got, win, go home.  End of the God damn story.  Don't cry, don't whine, just win.  Bynum, check cashed.  Pau, check cashed.  Odom, re-signed.  Artest, paid and brought in.  Kobe.........still waiting.  Of all these players, which one of them has EARNED EVERY GOD DAMN CENT FOR THE LA LAKERS?  EVERY SINGLE PENNY?  And yet, everyone else is paid, Kobe is waiting still.  Will he be rich?  Of course he will.  He'll get his.  But to sit on your perch, take one shot in the 4th quarter of a close game, the day after you had your @#$ on the pine of the 4th quarter of another close game, cash your check, and then question the one guy that is at worst responsible for you being 1-1 in those 2 games, and not 0-2.  It's just stupid.  It's mind numbing.  Pau has been great for this team.  He has really helped us out.   But this year (a year in which he should have come out HUNGRIER then ever to prove last year was no fluke, to get that back to back, a year in which he was rewarded with a ton of money) he has sat a third of the season, he has not improved in any aspect i can see, he doesn't look bulked up, he's been pushed around, and he is the one to stand up and question the one guy that fights every second of every game with more ailments then the rest of the team combined?  @#$%. 

It would  be nice if he could rest for a couple weeks and the team and fans didn't panic about it... but that's exactly what would happen. And that's sad.

And as far as him going out with all these injuries and hustling every play of every game: we're spoiled in that we have that in Kobe, and that's exactly why when it comes to labeling hard workers in the NBA, Kobe's name tops the list. But holding everyone else to that same standard is unfair. THAT BEING SAID, I don't think Pau works out or practices or plays ANYWHERE CLOSE to the intensity level that he needs to. No, he doesn't show the intensity of Kobe, but I don't expect him to. Show the intensity of a millionaire athlete on a storied team, and failing to do THAT is something I hold against him.

 

[CP1708]

Naw Ska, we're good. 

I think we both see things in a sort of similar way, just different paths to get there.  Not a darn thing wrong with that either. 

Our team earlier this very decade had guys like that.  Ron Harper.  Rick Fox.  Robert Horry.  D Fish.  B Shaw.  They did what they needed to do to win games.  HOWEVER, they too took games/nights off because of the 2 big guys that could take care of them.  But we can't put that on Kobe/Shaq, or now Kobe.  That ain't their fault.  No way. 

  But I see what you're saying. 
I personally, think that if Kobe sat a few games, we would win them.  (maybe not every game, but we would be above .500)  Because they would look at each other and realize they need to step up.  Add to that the other team would let down not having to deal with Kobe, and you have all the makings of an upset.  We almost had it in San Antonio.  They almost gutted out that game without our two big guns, so I believe we could manage a few games.  But that isn't Kobe.  He isn't like Pau and all those other guys, he plays regardless.  If we had 1 elite Kobe, and 11 scrubs who try and work like Kobe, we'd never lose.  But of course, not everyone has the drive he does. 

Maybe Pau was goin your route tryin to motivate a certain way.  Maybe.  But calling out the one guy that gives all every night?  I dunno.  If Fisher did this, I MIGHT be able to see that.  Fish too plays every night, he plays hurt, he certainly doesn't have the talent of his peers these days, but he won't let you out work him.  Pau resting for half the season and then barking just rubs me the wrong way.  If Pau played 40 minutes of every single game, then I wouldn't have an issue with him and what he said.  But Kobe tried to get that win last night for him, and he didn't do a God damn thing to help, and then he cries about it after the game?  I can't get with that. 

And just as an editor's note, we whined, cried, stomped our feet, wanted to trade everybody, tossed and turned all last year.......we were left smilin at the end.  That's what i want this year.  I'm sure most of you remember, I celebrated for at least a good 45 seconds, and then I was workin on this year already. 

  It's how I am.  The parade was still going on, and I'm watchin it like "why aren't they practicing right now?"   "They got a court right there, someone get them a ball" 

  But hey, it's what I want.  I want them ALL to improve.  I want them all to go out and win every game.  And with that, here's my biggest fear........

Last year we were embarrassed by the finals vs Boston.  All of em.  And they went out and wanted to prove to everybody who they were.  That's why we beat Clev 2-0, Boston 2-0, SA 2-1 (damn near 3-0 if not for the Mason miracle)  Now, they had bad games in the playoffs when they let down cuz Yao was out, but everytime they had a bad game, they came back and won by 40.  Denver threw a punch, we threw one back, they hit back, we go for their throat IN THEIR GYM.  We wanted it last year, WE were hungry. 

This year?  We're fat.  We marry celebs.  Get contracts.  Sign the upgrade (on paper at least) we have rings, we have experience, we'll walk where we wanna go.  Kobe/Fish, and Phil are the only ones that know how hard it is to repeat.  They know now it's the Cavs that are hungry.  The Magic are hungry, the Celts.  The Nuggets are hungry.  This could be bad for us. 

Now I have faith in Phil.  If anyone in this game knows how to push the right buttons, it's him.  But if the light doesn't click on soon, someone is going to turn our lights out.  Would that make us hungrier in 2011?  I bet it would, and I bet there wouldn't be 17 game hammy's, and sore feet, and all that other nonsense.  I bet we'd win a lotta games a lot easier that year.  But i don't want to find out.  I want to win this year, and then deal with being even fatter next year, not starved next year.  Because it's clear, we are the worst 37-12 team in the NBA right now. 

 

[westcoastsfinest]

CP, whos fat on the Lakers?