fixedOriginally Posted by CP1708
Everybody still angry in here.
Ya'll need to settle down.
If they listen to us we'd have traded Bynum, Farmar, Odom, Sasha, Ammo, Powell, Luke, Fish, already, Kobe would be on the bench resting, all we'd have left is Pau, Shannon, Artest and Mbenga. The hell is the point of all that?
I don't see any deals getting done in the next 3 weeks, this team is going to stay as constructed, unless the Celtics get LeBron forBig BabyUno Uno or somethin.
But gosh damn all the fans of other teams would cry like babies around here.Originally Posted by 23ska909red02
- Bynum for Bosh
- Sasha and Ammo for Hinrich
- Farmar and Powell for Devin Harris
So we'd have:
- Fish/Hinrich/Harris
- Kobe/Brown
- Artest/Walton
- Pau/Bosh/Mbenga
- lots of trouble running any play, since 3 brand new Lakers just joined the team
Originally Posted by 23ska909red02
- Bynum for Bosh
- Sasha and Ammo for Hinrich
- Farmar and Powell for Devin Harris
So we'd have:
- Fish/Hinrich/Harris
- Kobe/Brown
- Artest/Walton
- Pau/Bosh/Mbenga
- lots of trouble running any play, since 3 brand new Lakers just joined the team
Team would be good, but they wouldn't touchOriginally Posted by 23ska909red02
- Bynum for Bosh
- Sasha and Ammo for Hinrich
- Farmar and Powell for Devin Harris
So we'd have:
- Fish/Hinrich/Harris
- Kobe/Brown
- Artest/Walton
- Pau/Bosh/Mbenga
- lots of trouble running any play, since 3 brand new Lakers just joined the team
[h2]One-on-One: L.A.'s greatest[/h2]
[h3]QUESTION: Who is the greatest Laker of all time?[/h3]BUCHER: If we're talking greatest Laker -- as in the person withthe most impact on the franchise, rather than merely its greatestplayer -- I don't see how it can be anyone other than Jerry West. He'samong the top five all-time Lakers players. He was the architect thatbrought in most, if not all, of the other top four players. No one wasa bigger Magic Johnson fan than me back in the day, and I've always felt Kobe Bryant hasn't received his full due, but how does either of them hold a purple-and-gold candle to The Logo?
BROUSSARD: With all due respect to The Logo, your revisionisthistory must be exposed. I assume you consider Kareem Abdul-Jabbar atop-five Laker. Well, when Jabbar joined the Lakers in 1975, West wasnot working for the franchise. West became the Lakers' coach a yearlater, in 1976. And he didn't bring in Magic Johnson, either, who (asI'll explain later) is truly the greatest Laker of all time.
Whenthe Lakers drafted Magic in 1979, West had just finished his third yearof coaching the Lakers (no rings). He then became a Lakers scout forthe next three years. So West didn't bring in Kareem, Magic, MichaelCooper, Norm Nixon, Jamaal Wilkes or any of the other main cogs of theLakers' title teams in 1980 and 1982. West was named Lakers GM in 1982.By then, it was mainly a matter of coasting as Magic, Kareem and James Worthy (drafted in '82) ran to three more titles in the decade.
Ofcourse, West brought Kobe and Shaq to L.A. But your overall logic isflawed. If I were to use your "Puppet Master" logic, I'd call JerryBuss the greatest Laker. Buss bought the Lakers in 1979, and since thenthey've been awesome. Buss had the good sense to hire West as GM and tolet him make decisions on his own, and Buss has spent the moneynecessary to get the superstars.
But I'm not doing thePuppet Master thing. I'm giving the ultimate props for on-courtperformance, and that's why it's Magic Johnson.
RB: No revisionist history here; no careful reading over there,apparently, either. I didn't say he brought in all the other topLakers, "but most, if not all," allowing for the fact that he didn'thave a direct hand in all the greats acquired. And if you don't thinkas a scout and presumptive GM he had anything to do with building that'80s dynasty, well, that's just myopic, if not revisionist.
CB: Amazing how you twist words -- both yours and mine -- to fit your argument. You've got more gimmick plays than Don Nelson!
"Mostif not all." He didn't even bring in most of the stars of the 1980s.And stop it with the "scout, presumptive GM" stuff. Yeah, he was in themeetings with all the other decision-makers, and I'm sure when theyasked his opinion of Magic he gave a big thumbs-up. But you'restretching the meaning of "credit" a thousand times over with thatargument. In fact, by your definition it's more like "stealing credit."
BecauseMagic Johnson was "the straw that stirs the drink" in the greatest erain Lakers history. Five titles and nine Finals appearances in his 12pre-HIV seasons. He turned in arguably the greatest individualperformance in league history (all things considered) when, as a20-year-old rookie, he played center for injured MVP Kareem in Game 6of the NBA Finals and put up 42 points, 15 rebounds and seven assistsagainst face of the league Dr. J and the Philadelphia 76ers.
Notonly did Magic do it with his production, but also with his flair. Hisno-look and behind-the-back passes keyed the "Showtime" era, all whilehe made passing hip and revolutionized the point guard position.
Thenthere was Magic's personality and charisma. His smile and charmcaptivated America and helped lift the NBA out of the doldrums of the1970s, when drug abuse and violence threatened to render the sport tominor league status.
Magic is the greatest Laker, period, and if it weren't for Michael Jordan, he might be Mr. NBA.
RB: Well then, let's go back to West's playing career, sinceyou give that short shrift as far as what it meant to the Lakers. Hewas the first pick after the franchise moved from Minneapolis andirreplaceable as far as establishing them in that big, new high-glamourmarket as a perennial title contender. The man played in nine NBAFinals and was a four-time All-NBA defender even though they didn'tstart the award until he was 32. He was the kind of combo guard otherplayers loved to play with and essentially put the Lakers on the map.Hate to break this to you, but as magnificent as Magic was as a passer,West was a more complete player. It's not even close. Nothingunderscores how good he was more than this: He's the only player in NBAhistory to be Finals MVP on the losing team.
I'm not goingto discount anything you said about Magic, but his biggest impact wason the NBA, saving it from the drug-addled doldrums, and he couldn'thave done it without the assistance of Larry Bird and their rivalry. Ifwe're talking impact on the Lakers, though, he and Kareem carried on alegacy started by West and Wilt. And for all that Magic did -- and forall the highlights of that one game you referenced -- some people wouldargue Kareem was a more vital cog to those championships. No one wouldever argue that about the West-Wilt teams. You also conveniently notethat West didn't coach the Lakers to any rings without referencingMagic's coaching days. That's not revision but convenient amnesia. Hewas a short-lived disaster as a coach while West coached the Lakers to three playoffs, including a Western Conference finals appearance.
CB: Obviously, West was an awesome player. Phenomenal. But Idon't think even you would argue he was better than Magic. In fact, asa player, I'd rank him fourth in terms of greatness as a Laker behindMagic, Kobe and Kareem. Because Wilt played only five seasons withL.A., West gets the nod over him. You mentioned West's nine Finalsappearances, but failed to mention that he lost eight of them. Heplayed four seasons with a healthy Wilt (five overall) and won just onering. And don't forget that he played 10 seasons with a healthy ElginBaylor and never won it all.
And I've won this debate.
RB: Let's take West completely out of the equation when itcomes to drafting Magic or building the first two championship teamsaround him, even though we both know that Jerry West has had JerryBuss' ear like no other. But let's pretend he wasn't responsible for asingle personnel decision prior to taking over as GM in 1982. He stillwas the architect who not only added and replaced pieces (Byron Scott, A.C. Green) so Magic could win another three titles, but he then also orchestrated the acquisition of Kobe and Shaq and that championship run of three rings and four NBA Finals appearances.
Asfor West the player, I won't make the argument he was better thanMagic, but only because it's impossible to compare players fromdifferent eras and I didn't watch West's era firsthand the way I didMagic's. I will say, based on everything I've been told and read, Magicbeing the superior player is not the slam dunk you make it out to be.In any case, that's the only slice of Lakers lore that Magic has overWest, and you yourself put West among the team's top four all-timeplayers, so clearly it's not a landslide. As it is in favor of West asa Lakers coach and GM.
One last thing: Your list of greatLakers players went Magic, Kobe, Kareem, West. Again, from the Lakers'perspective, it should be Kareem, Magic, Kobe -- and if No. 24 getsanother ring this year, he moves ahead of Magic, too.
And I can only assume you declared yourself the debate winner because you knew no one else would.
CB: My point is simply that if you want to give the ultimatecredit to the man who put the team together, you can just as easilygive that credit to the man who hired the man who put the teamtogether. That being Buss.
And while "Magic the player"over "West the player" is not a landslide, Magic is the clear-cutwinner. There's no debating that. Five rings to one. That's a prettywide margin. And while Kareem was there for all those rings, he was 40and 41 years old for the last two, a fading star whose days in thelimelight and the Finals were prolonged by the brilliance of Magic.
RB: What I find most interesting about your fascination with rings is that, without fail, you consider LeBron Jamesto be the best player in the league over Kobe Bryant, and have foryears now. Yet we all know the score on that front when it comes torings. So how is it you're giving rings such massive weight in theWest-Magic player conversation? It pains me to have to drum Magic,because from an emotional standpoint, I loved everything about himgrowing up -- the joy of playing, the sensational passing -- and itmakes me feel good every time I stop at his Starbucks and thesurrounding mall on the way to the Staples Center. But take thehighlights and the infectious personality and all that out of theequation and add up the cold, hard contributions made by both men tothis franchise and the score is not close. Jerry West devoted his lifeto making the Lakers a championship outfit. For decades. Successfully.Magic, no matter how much success he had during his single decade --shared with West -- can't say that.
CB: Kobe and LeBron is a different matter entirely in thatneither is done playing, and LeBron is still relatively early in hiscareer. Make no mistake -- and I've said this on television -- ifLeBron wins only one ring and Kobe finishes with four, Kobe will beabove LeBron in my all-time rankings.
But to conclude thetopic at hand, you say West was a more "complete" player than Magic. Sowhat? A lot of guys were more complete players than Shaq in his prime-- or Dwight Howardtoday -- but that doesn't mean they're better. It's not a skillscompetition. It's about winning. And Magic's five rings stand outstarkly against West's one
[h2]Who's the greatest Laker ever?[/h2]
OK, everyone -- it's time for something different. Much of mywriting to date has focused on leaguewide issues, but today I want totackle a franchise-level question. And when it comes to franchises,none can rival the recent history of the Los Angeles Lakers. While theCeltics dominated the '60s, the Lakers have been the league's marqueeteam ever since. With L.A. entrenched atop the Western Conference, itsstring of dominance shows no sign of ending anytime soon.
They'vealso employed an unusual number of superstars over the years. Any listof the game's 20 greatest players has to include at least seven Lakers,all of whom require just one name (Magic, Kobe, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq,Elgin and West).
Which brings up the obvious question: Which onesare the greatest? Now that Kobe Bryant is about to pass Jerry West forthe most points in Lakers history, I'm not the only person looking atthat issue. The Kamenetzky brothers have been addressing the G.L.O.A.T.question in their ESPNLosAngeles.com blog, and had me project Kobe Bryant's career numbers as part of the exercise.
It'sa far more interesting question than for many other franchises. Forsome, the answer is so obvious that this exercise would seem pointless(Is there any debate at all about the greatest Milwaukee Buck,Minnesota Timberwolf or Cleveland Cavalier?) while for others thehistory is too brief (Anyone up for a greatest-Bobcat debate?).
ForL.A., however, we can compare several all-time greats, and you can makea strong case for at least five players to rank at the top. So today,we're going to tackle the 10 greatest Lakers of all time, starting fromthe bottom and working our way up.
Here are the ground rules:First, we're counting only the time spent as a Laker. So Bob McAdoogets no credit for winning those scoring titles in Buffalo, forinstance. Second, we're counting only the Los Angeles years, not thetime the franchise was based in Minneapolis (apologies to George Mikan,Vern Mikkelsen and Jim Pollard). And third, duration matters -- alonger tenure is generally better than a shorter one.
Without further ado, here's one man's G.L.O.A.T. list:
10. Pau Gasol (2008-present)
Gasol has played only two-and-a-half seasons in purple and gold, buthis arrival immediately heralded a new era of Lakers dominance. He'salready helped L.A. to two conference titles and one championship, andhe seems poised to add at least another conference title to his résumé.
Dependingon how long he stays in town, Gasol's elite-level production couldeventually see him rise to the seventh position on this list. His pasttwo seasons are better than two of the three players immediately aheadof him, but he hasn't yet done it for long enough.
9. Gail Goodrich (1965-68, 1970-76)
Goodrich played much of his career during a lull in the Lakers'dominance, was shunted off to Phoenix for two seasons during his primeand spent his final seasons toiling in anonymity for the New OrleansJazz after signing as a free agent. Because of that, he may be therarest of rarities -- an underrated Laker.
(Andhis move to New Orleans also boosted his "value" to the Lakers, in thatL.A. received three draft picks as compensation, under the free agencyrules at the time. One of them became the top pick in the 1979 draft,Magic Johnson.)
Goodrich was good enough at his peak to lead a69-win team in scoring. Less renowned is his performance in 1973-74, inbetween the West-Wilt era and the Kareem era. Goodrich led L.A. to 47wins, averaging 25.3 points a game, and earned his only first-teamAll-NBA honors for his efforts.
He made four straight All-Starteams from 1972-75 and had solid playoff numbers throughout. He mighthave a tougher time in today's era, since he was basically a 6-foot-1shooting guard, but his résumé is tough to ignore.
8. Wilt Chamberlain (1968-73)
Chamberlain outranks Goodrich despite the brevity of his L.A. career(five seasons, one of which lasted only 12 games) for one simplereason: He was the centerpiece on one of the greatest teams ever.Chamberlain's 1971-72 Lakers won a record 33 consecutive games and seta then-record with 69 total wins en route to winning the franchise'sfirst title in California.
Chamberlainhardly scored for that team, but he led the league in rebounding andfield-goal percentage while captaining the defense, letting Goodrichand West do all the damage offensively. His other Lakers seasonsweren't as impressive, but he still led the league in rebounding fourtimes and shooting percentage three times.
7. James Worthy (1982-1994)
Worthy's regular-season output was, quite frankly, well short of Hallof Fame quality. The reason he waltzed into Springfield, Mass., soeasily was his outsized playoff numbers, including three straightpostseasons with a 20-plus PER (player efficiency rating) and theFinals MVP award in 1988. Worthy is one of the rare performers with acareer playoff PER better than his regular-season rating, making his"Big Game James" moniker richly deserved. For his playoff career, heaveraged 21.1 points and shot 54.4 percent, which were far better thanhis regular-season output of 19.6 points and 52.1 percent.
Thatsaid, the gap between Worthy and the first six spots on this list isenormous. Worthy was never named first- or second-team All-NBA, butevery player ahead of him had at least six first-team selections as aLaker.
6. Elgin Baylor (1960-1972)
Here's where the hair-splitting gets intense.
Wehad to ditch Baylor's first two seasons, which came in Minneapolis, butthose seasons wouldn't have affected his ranking. The strong points inhis L.A. résumé are eight first-team All-NBA selections and fivetop-five MVP finishes. Those accomplishments alone would make him thegreatest player for at least half of the NBA's franchises.
InL.A, the bar is a few miles higher. Baylor's case is hurt by the lackof a playoff MVP or regular-season MVP and, more glaringly, the lack ofa championship. Additionally, his peak years don't quite measure up tothose of Shaq, Kareem and Magic, and he falls a bit short of Kobe andJerry West on staying power and defensive contributions. He's one ofthe greatest players ever. But on this list, he's sixth.
5. Jerry West (1960-1974)
The Logo was gifted enough to shift to point guard in his 30s, lead theleague in assists, and help the Lakers win 69 games and a title in1971-72 … two seasons after he led the league in scoring. He was grittyenough to make five all-defense teams and earn 10 first-team All-NBAselections and two second-teams. He also came up huge in the playoffs,averaging more than 30 points in six straight postseasons and winningthe 1969 Finals MVP award despite playing for the losing side (the onlytime that's happened).
Sowhy's he only fifth? For two reasons. First, he wasn't especiallydurable -- he played fewer than 70 games in seven seasons and missedall but one minute of the 1967 postseason. Second and more important,his peak years were the least impressive of anyone's in the top six.West had about 15 straight seasons in which he was really, reallygood, but in none of them could you have said he was the league's bestplayer. He never won the MVP award but landed in the top five of thevoting eight times.
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1976-198
You could make a convincing case that Kareem is the third-best playerof all time, behind Jordan and Chamberlain, so the fact that he comesin fourth on the Lakers' list is a pretty strong statement about thestar power that has passed through L.A. over the past half century.
Abdul-Jabbarhad his best seasons in Milwaukee, but he was no slouch in the Forumeither. In L.A., he won three MVP awards and one Finals MVP and hadnine top-five finishes in the MVP voting. Kareem also won fivechampionship rings and made 13 All-Star teams as a Laker.
Youcould make a strong case that Kareem should be No. 1 based on theabove, but the reason he drops to fourth on my list is his playoffperformances. Abdul-Jabbar's postseason numbers weren't as strong ashis regular-season output, which is perfectly normal (the competitionis tougher in the postseason), but fall short in this group of playoffoverachievers. Additionally, his peak seasons weren't as good as thoseof another dominant big man -- the next player on our list.
3. Shaquille O'Neal (1996-2004)
Shaq has a legitimate case to be No. 1 for one simple reason: At hispeak, no Laker has ever been better. Not only did he post threestraight seasons with a 30-plus PER -- something no other Laker hasdone, nor any other player in history, save Michael Jordan -- but hecapped them with equally monstrous playoff efforts. O'Neal won only oneMVP award in that span, but that's a travesty that says more about ourown David-versus-Goliath voting tendencies than it does about how heplayed. However, the Lakers won three consecutive titles with him inthe middle, and during that time he was as dominant as any player inhistory.
Buthis tenure was too brief to put him No. 1 on this list. He played onlyeight seasons in L.A., he feuded with Bryant at the end, and he wasn'tdurable, playing more than 70 games only twice and missing a total of110 in his time in L.A. Shaq was amazing, but you couldn't count on himthe way you could the top two players.
2. Kobe Bryant (1996-present)
Bryant might be the most divisive player in NBA history -- love him orhate him, virtually everyone has an opinion about him. Those opinionshave become markedly more positive over the past two seasons, as L.A.'ssuccess and his own increasing maturity have combined to greatlyrehabilitate his reputation. Additionally, Bryant finally became themain man on a championship team (a key line previously missing from hisG.L.O.A.T. résumé), and in 2008, he won his first MVP award.
Bryanthas all the nuts and bolts to earn a high ranking -- a dozen All-Starselections, seven All-NBA first-teams, nine all-defense honors, andfour championship rings. What's missing, oddly enough, is peak value.It's strange because at times, Bryant at his best has been as good asany player in history -- witness his 81-point explosion, for example,or his string of nine successive 40-point games.
But when youstart comparing entire seasons, he has only one with a PER greater than27, which is a pretty flimsy record compared to the other elites in thetop six. And while his playoff numbers are strong, they aren't anybetter than his regular-season output -- again, a stat line that'simpressive among mere mortals but pales in this company.
That'senough to keep him out of the top spot, although an early startcombined with a career spent entirely in a Lakers uniform should allowhim to own many of the franchise's records by the time he's done.
1. Magic Johnson (1979-91, 1996)
I've looked at players based on various criteria: peak value,durability, playoff performance and longevity. On those factors, Magichas the whole package, and only an early exit due to his contractingHIV prevents this from being a rout.
Peakvalue? Magic won three MVP awards, had nine top-five finishes in MVPvoting and had five seasons with a PER of least 25. Durability? Beforethe HIV diagnosis, Magic had only one significant injury in a dozenseasons. Playoff performance? Magic had one of the greatest games ofall time as a rookie, leading the Lakers to a championship whileplaying center in place of an injured Kareem; plus, he won the FinalsMVP award three times and led L.A. to five titles.
Despite hisearly exit, Magic also grades out well in the "quantity" items. He madenine first-team All-NBA squads; only West, with 10, has more, and Kobeis still on seven. Magic's nine top-five MVP finishes is matched onlyby Kareem; Kobe, again, has just seven. In addition to Magic's fiveseasons with a PER greater than 25, he played 13 seasons with a PERgreater than 20; only Shaq and Kareem beat the former number, and onlyWest tops the latter.
[h2]The five greatest Lakers[/h2]By J.A. Adande
ESPNLosAngeles.com
The same way I can make a distinction between "best player" and "most valuable," I don't assume that Kobe Bryant becoming the leading scorer in Lakers history automatically makes him the greatest Laker of all time.
Even though three of the top four scorers in NBA history -- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Karl Malone and Wilt Chamberlain -- set their final numbers while wearing Lakers uniforms, this franchise is about more than just points.
Ina city that runs on show business and demands championships from itsteams, the Lakers are defined by entertainment and winning. Merevictories aren't enough. They must be delivered in style.
It'sthe people who grasped that concept and delivered on their potentialwho get the accolades here. It goes beyond performance on the court.It's more about impact on the city, the people who did the most to turnthe Lakers into the team that defines Los Angeles.
[h3]5. Kobe Bryant[/h3]
Bryantdidn't build the brand. He has ascended by climbing on the shoulders ofthose who came before him. If his era were stricken from the books, theLakers still would be one of the most storied franchises in sports.That said, he has accomplished things his playing predecessors neverdid, such as winning three consecutive championships and later winninga championship without another surefire Hall of Famer beside him. Pau Gasolis one of the best big men in the game today, but he isn't in thediscussion of all-time greats with the likes of Chamberlain,Abdul-Jabbar and Shaquille O'Neal.
However, Bryant did miss theplayoffs in 2004-05, then lost in the first round of the playoffs thenext two years. None of the other Lakers greats ever went three yearswithout winning a playoff series.
One advantage in Kobe'spocket: time. He can still get to six championships and have ringsupremacy over everyone else who wore the uniform. His relentless questto be the best has allowed him to enter the elite rankings, earning aberth on my list of greatest Lakers. It may still get him to the top.Here are the men he'd have to pass:
[h3]4. Jerry West[/h3]
Lakersfans are realistic enough to know their team can't win championshipsevery year. All they demand is a trip to the NBA Finals. We can tracethese expectations back to the 1960 draft, when they selected JerryWest with the second pick. (I wonder if one day we'll trace thebehavior of Justin Combs back to the day his father Sean "Diddy" Combsgave him a Maybach for his 16th birthday.)
With West, the Lakerswent to the Finals nine times. Even though it took him until his eighthtry to finally procure a championship, he set the standard: When thelast NBA game of the season is being played, the Lakers should beinvolved. West combined with Elgin Baylor to give the Lakers instantcredibility after the team arrived from Minneapolis.
Whatelevates West to the higher realms in Lakerland is what he did in thesecond phase of his career as a front-office executive. He made themoves that kept the Lakers on top in the '80s, kept them relevant inthe '90s and made them the team of the new millennium.
He traded Norm Nixon for Byron Scott in 1983, an unpopular move initially but one that gave the Lakers a top-notch guard for the next 10 years. He traded Frank Brickowski,Petur Gudmundsson and draft picks to San Antonio for Mychal Thompson in1987, providing the frontcourt depth to win back-to-back championships.In 1990, he signed Sam Perkins, who made the winning shot in Game 1 of the 1991 NBA Finals, the Lakers' only Finals game victory in the 1990s.
West drafted Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell and Nick Van Exel (in the second round, no less) and signed Cedric Ceballosto form the nucleus of the "Lake Show" squads that made two surprisingtrips to the playoffs. West maneuvered to clear the salary-cap space tosign Shaquille O'Neal, and in the process acquired the rights to theCharlotte Hornets' 1997 draft choice: Kobe Bryant.
So he getscredit not only for his own Hall of Fame career in purple and gold, butBryant's as well. That's why he gets the higher rank.
[h3]3. Magic Johnson[/h3]
Like West, Magic Johnsontook the Lakers to nine NBA Finals. Unlike West, Johnson won five ofthem. Yes, Abdul-Jabbar was there for each of those five Lakerschampionships in the 1980s and was the Finals MVP in 1985. But thatLakers run of Western Conference dominance didn't start until Johnsonarrived in 1979 … and he did make it back to the Finals in 1991 afterAbdul-Jabbar retired.
Magic was the maestro of Showtime, the onewho made the Lakers the most enjoyable team to watch as well as thebest. He was the most valuable player in the league twice and the MVPof the Finals three times during the 1980s. He understood thatshowmanship mattered in this town, thus the flair on his no-lookpasses, the celebratory dances and high-fives after his success. Still,he did it with substance. His focus wasn't on the most glamorous aspectof the game, scoring, but on all the other components that went intowinning. How many best-ever nominees for good franchises -- west ofBill Russell on the Celtics -- had career scoring averages of less than20 points? It's no surprise the former NBA all-time assists leader topsthe franchise list in that category, but he's also third in rebounds.
Hewas an unusual physical specimen, the league's first 6-foot-9 pointguard. But his wasn't an athletic game. He didn't dominate from the airas Michael Jordan and Bryant did. That was never his means of winning.
Once,at the charity basketball game he hosted annually, Johnson was eggingon a participant in an impromptu dunk contest. The player suggestedMagic try dunking himself. Magic, already retired at that point,directed everyone's attention to the championship banners hanging onthe wall of the Forum. "Those are my dunks right there," Johnson said.
Theywere his dunks, his passes, his smiles, all represented in five piecesof golden fabric. To date no player has brought more NBA championshipsto L.A., which is why no player can rank ahead of him.
[h3]2. Jerry Buss[/h3]
Ifwinning matters most, then Jerry Buss has indisputably been thegreatest owner in sports since he acquired the Lakers in 1979. Ninechampionships. That's a number that the baseball Yankees' revival inthe '90s or the NFL Patriots' arrival last decade can't touch.
Heconsistently has spent what it took to keep the Lakers competitive,from giving Magic Johnson a then-outrageous $25 million, 25-yearcontract in 1981 to signing O'Neal for what was the largest contract inNBA history in 1996: $120 million. When the Memphis Grizzlieswere looking to shed salary, the Lakers were more than willing to takeit on and thus Gasol arrived in 2008 to make the Lakers championshipmaterial again.
By serving as the lone string connecting the pastnine Lakers championships, Buss has demonstrated it was more than justthe lucky coin toss that brought them the No. 1 pick and Magic, andmore than the wizardry of West, who left the Lakers in 2000. It was theleadership from the top, which is the origin of all winning franchises.
Busstook his shots for dismantling the team and catering to Bryant in 2004.But he reasserted control by bringing back Phil Jackson in 2005 andrefusing to bend to Bryant's desire to be traded in 2007, and theLakers were better off for it.
Speaking of better off, Buss' $16 million investment in the Lakers is now worth $607 million, according to Forbes.
[h3]1. Chick Hearn[/h3]
Eventhe greatest entertainers need a promoter. Muhammad Ali, mastershowman, had Bundini Brown. For all of the stars the Lakers have had onthe court, the man who eclipses them all is Chick Hearn.
Hisvoice provided the narrative for Lakers highlights in five differentdecades, on everything from West's backcourt shot against the Knicks tothe final seconds of the championship three-peat in 2002.
ForHearn's importance in Lakers history I defer to the great Los AngelesTimes columnist Jim Murray, who described the days during which theLakers drew fewer than 3,000 people for a playoff game, before a Hearnradio broadcast of the next game on the road brought 15,000 fans to theSports Arena when the series returned to L.A. When the Lakers werestill establishing themselves -- competing in the marketplace againstthe Dodgers at their most dominant and the UCLA basketball dynasty --they used to have players drive through neighborhoods, making theirpitch via loudspeaker to get people to buy tickets.
"The sound ofChick Hearn did more for the team," Murray wrote. "The Lakersprospered. And carried the pro game along with them."
You mighthave heard that famous voice doing Harlem Globetrotters games on"Gilligan's Island" or Goofy's soccer matches, but it served no greaterpurpose than to provide play-by-play for the Lakers (and hand out theirchampionship rings). Multiple generations learned to love the Lakersthrough Chick Hearn.
Chick reworked the lexicon of the sport,giving birth to the phrases "slam dunk" and "dribble drive" and "airball." He provided an education on the fly. It's because of him thatgenerations of Southern Californians know the dimensions of the courtare 94 feet by 50 feet and that the team that wins the opening tap willhave the ball to begin the fourth quarter. (And thanks to Chick, whocould forget the basketball seating capacity of the Forum was 17,505?)
Thetruest test of impact is after a person is gone. And when Chick Hearnpassed away it wasn't just the legendary Lakers players who came to paytheir respects; the governor of California and mayor of Los Angelesalso attended his funeral Mass.
It's hard to imagine any other Laker meaning that much.
Originally Posted by Notorious 858
[h2]The five greatest Lakers[/h2]By J.A. Adande
ESPNLosAngeles.com
The same way I can make a distinction between "best player" and "most valuable," I don't assume that Kobe Bryant becoming the leading scorer in Lakers history automatically makes him the greatest Laker of all time.
Even though three of the top four scorers in NBA history -- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Karl Malone and Wilt Chamberlain -- set their final numbers while wearing Lakers uniforms, this franchise is about more than just points.
In a city that runs on show business and demands championships from its teams, the Lakers are defined by entertainment and winning. Mere victories aren't enough. They must be delivered in style.
It's the people who grasped that concept and delivered on their potential who get the accolades here. It goes beyond performance on the court. It's more about impact on the city, the people who did the most to turn the Lakers into the team that defines Los Angeles.
[h3]5. Kobe Bryant[/h3]
Bryant didn't build the brand. He has ascended by climbing on the shoulders of those who came before him. If his era were stricken from the books, the Lakers still would be one of the most storied franchises in sports. That said, he has accomplished things his playing predecessors never did, such as winning three consecutive championships and later winning a championship without another surefire Hall of Famer beside him. Pau Gasol is one of the best big men in the game today, but he isn't in the discussion of all-time greats with the likes of Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar and Shaquille O'Neal.
However, Bryant did miss the playoffs in 2004-05, then lost in the first round of the playoffs the next two years. None of the other Lakers greats ever went three years without winning a playoff series.
One advantage in Kobe's pocket: time. He can still get to six championships and have ring supremacy over everyone else who wore the uniform. His relentless quest to be the best has allowed him to enter the elite rankings, earning a berth on my list of greatest Lakers. It may still get him to the top. Here are the men he'd have to pass:
[h3]4. Jerry West[/h3]
Lakers fans are realistic enough to know their team can't win championships every year. All they demand is a trip to the NBA Finals. We can trace these expectations back to the 1960 draft, when they selected Jerry West with the second pick. (I wonder if one day we'll trace the behavior of Justin Combs back to the day his father Sean "Diddy" Combs gave him a Maybach for his 16th birthday.)
With West, the Lakers went to the Finals nine times. Even though it took him until his eighth try to finally procure a championship, he set the standard: When the last NBA game of the season is being played, the Lakers should be involved. West combined with Elgin Baylor to give the Lakers instant credibility after the team arrived from Minneapolis.
What elevates West to the higher realms in Lakerland is what he did in the second phase of his career as a front-office executive. He made the moves that kept the Lakers on top in the '80s, kept them relevant in the '90s and made them the team of the new millennium.
He traded Norm Nixon for Byron Scott in 1983, an unpopular move initially but one that gave the Lakers a top-notch guard for the next 10 years. He traded Frank Brickowski, Petur Gudmundsson and draft picks to San Antonio for Mychal Thompson in 1987, providing the frontcourt depth to win back-to-back championships. In 1990, he signed Sam Perkins, who made the winning shot in Game 1 of the 1991 NBA Finals, the Lakers' only Finals game victory in the 1990s.
West drafted Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell and Nick Van Exel (in the second round, no less) and signed Cedric Ceballos to form the nucleus of the "Lake Show" squads that made two surprising trips to the playoffs. West maneuvered to clear the salary-cap space to sign Shaquille O'Neal, and in the process acquired the rights to the Charlotte Hornets' 1997 draft choice: Kobe Bryant.
So he gets credit not only for his own Hall of Fame career in purple and gold, but Bryant's as well. That's why he gets the higher rank.
[h3]3. Magic Johnson[/h3]
Like West, Magic Johnson took the Lakers to nine NBA Finals. Unlike West, Johnson won five of them. Yes, Abdul-Jabbar was there for each of those five Lakers championships in the 1980s and was the Finals MVP in 1985. But that Lakers run of Western Conference dominance didn't start until Johnson arrived in 1979 … and he did make it back to the Finals in 1991 after Abdul-Jabbar retired.
Magic was the maestro of Showtime, the one who made the Lakers the most enjoyable team to watch as well as the best. He was the most valuable player in the league twice and the MVP of the Finals three times during the 1980s. He understood that showmanship mattered in this town, thus the flair on his no-look passes, the celebratory dances and high-fives after his success. Still, he did it with substance. His focus wasn't on the most glamorous aspect of the game, scoring, but on all the other components that went into winning. How many best-ever nominees for good franchises -- west of Bill Russell on the Celtics -- had career scoring averages of less than 20 points? It's no surprise the former NBA all-time assists leader tops the franchise list in that category, but he's also third in rebounds.
He was an unusual physical specimen, the league's first 6-foot-9 point guard. But his wasn't an athletic game. He didn't dominate from the air as Michael Jordan and Bryant did. That was never his means of winning.
Once, at the charity basketball game he hosted annually, Johnson was egging on a participant in an impromptu dunk contest. The player suggested Magic try dunking himself. Magic, already retired at that point, directed everyone's attention to the championship banners hanging on the wall of the Forum. "Those are my dunks right there," Johnson said.
They were his dunks, his passes, his smiles, all represented in five pieces of golden fabric. To date no player has brought more NBA championships to L.A., which is why no player can rank ahead of him.
[h3]2. Jerry Buss[/h3]
If winning matters most, then Jerry Buss has indisputably been the greatest owner in sports since he acquired the Lakers in 1979. Nine championships. That's a number that the baseball Yankees' revival in the '90s or the NFL Patriots' arrival last decade can't touch.
He consistently has spent what it took to keep the Lakers competitive, from giving Magic Johnson a then-outrageous $25 million, 25-year contract in 1981 to signing O'Neal for what was the largest contract in NBA history in 1996: $120 million. When the Memphis Grizzlies were looking to shed salary, the Lakers were more than willing to take it on and thus Gasol arrived in 2008 to make the Lakers championship material again.
By serving as the lone string connecting the past nine Lakers championships, Buss has demonstrated it was more than just the lucky coin toss that brought them the No. 1 pick and Magic, and more than the wizardry of West, who left the Lakers in 2000. It was the leadership from the top, which is the origin of all winning franchises.
Buss took his shots for dismantling the team and catering to Bryant in 2004. But he reasserted control by bringing back Phil Jackson in 2005 and refusing to bend to Bryant's desire to be traded in 2007, and the Lakers were better off for it.
Speaking of better off, Buss' $16 million investment in the Lakers is now worth $607 million, according to Forbes.
[h3]1. Chick Hearn[/h3]
Even the greatest entertainers need a promoter. Muhammad Ali, master showman, had Bundini Brown. For all of the stars the Lakers have had on the court, the man who eclipses them all is Chick Hearn.
His voice provided the narrative for Lakers highlights in five different decades, on everything from West's backcourt shot against the Knicks to the final seconds of the championship three-peat in 2002.
For Hearn's importance in Lakers history I defer to the great Los Angeles Times columnist Jim Murray, who described the days during which the Lakers drew fewer than 3,000 people for a playoff game, before a Hearn radio broadcast of the next game on the road brought 15,000 fans to the Sports Arena when the series returned to L.A. When the Lakers were still establishing themselves -- competing in the marketplace against the Dodgers at their most dominant and the UCLA basketball dynasty -- they used to have players drive through neighborhoods, making their pitch via loudspeaker to get people to buy tickets.
"The sound of Chick Hearn did more for the team," Murray wrote. "The Lakers prospered. And carried the pro game along with them."
You might have heard that famous voice doing Harlem Globetrotters games on "Gilligan's Island" or Goofy's soccer matches, but it served no greater purpose than to provide play-by-play for the Lakers (and hand out their championship rings). Multiple generations learned to love the Lakers through Chick Hearn.
Chick reworked the lexicon of the sport, giving birth to the phrases "slam dunk" and "dribble drive" and "air ball." He provided an education on the fly. It's because of him that generations of Southern Californians know the dimensions of the court are 94 feet by 50 feet and that the team that wins the opening tap will have the ball to begin the fourth quarter. (And thanks to Chick, who could forget the basketball seating capacity of the Forum was 17,505?)
The truest test of impact is after a person is gone. And when Chick Hearn passed away it wasn't just the legendary Lakers players who came to pay their respects; the governor of California and mayor of Los Angeles also attended his funeral Mass.
It's hard to imagine any other Laker meaning that much.
I believe this as well, however, if Kobe gets to 6-7 rings, and say 10 finals.........with all the other Lakers records he's going to have, 15-16-17 years of service........I dunno man, could be hard to keep him from taking that spot.
