OFFICIAL HOCKEY THREAD: NHL, KHL, NCAA, IIHL

[jewseejay]

Just realized that the blues lost all purpose fwd Vladimir Sobotka to the KHL

realllly underrated player. Well undervalued not that he has tons of skill but hes jus one of those lynch pin guys to me. Sux for them. Guess the stable finally got too crowded.

 

[jewseejay]

These two have to get another one. It'd e like Peyton winning only one. Generally that's good enough but for a select few players that simply isn't enough

 

[jjs07]

Just realized that the blues lost all purpose fwd Vladimir Sobotka to the KHL

The difference was something like 300k in salary

He's VERY underrated. Tough as nails also.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I don't look things that way. Championships are team accomplishments especially in a hard cap league. One player doesn't make enough of a difference.

Toews and Kane are great, Kanes on of my favorite players ever but those guys aren't generational talents like Crosby or Geno. They are two great players who happen to play on the best organization in hockey

Geno and Crosby are world destroying forces of nature for the 20 minutes there on the ic, unfortunately its still only 20 minutes.

 

[jjs07]

Kane has 4 OT PLAYOFF winners...'nuff said.

 

[Bad Religion]

Best organization in hockey? 

 Where were the Hawks before Toews and Kane? Basement. Perennially. I think that factored into the 10 mill a year.

Toews and Kane aren't generational talents? I'd say that's arguable. Pure scoring talent, no you're right. But the other things these two bring to the table elevate them over a great number of their peers. Leadership, gamers during big games, production when it matters, ect. One of them is the best talent your country has produced in years. 

That said, I do agree with you that Crosby and Malkin are better overall, but don't have the supporting cast. 

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Best organization in hockey?   Where were the Hawks before Toews and Kane? Basement. Perennially. I think that factored into the 10 mill a year.

Toews and Kane aren't generational talents? I'd say that's arguable. Pure scoring talent, no you're right. But the other things these two bring to the table elevate them over a great number of their peers. Leadership, gamers during big games, production when it matters, ect. One of them is the best talent your country has produced in years. 

That said, I do agree with you that Crosby and Malkin are better overall. 

Since Stan Bowman took over they have been one of the best organizations in hockey, innovative, one of the early organizations to really incorporate analytics, they got a coach that is receptive to analytic data, rarely overpay, manage the cap superbly.

Teams win championshipsm its a team sport, especially in a sport like hockey, where your best player only play like 30% of the game.


People act like I'm insulting Kane and Toews, because I said they aren't as good as Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Kane has 4 OT PLAYOFF winners...'nuff said.

thats a function of opportunity.

and really a pretty meaningless number, it makes it seem as if somehow winning in regulation is a bad thing because you don't get precious "OT PLAYOFF WINNERS"

 

[jjs07]

Kane has 4 OT PLAYOFF winners...'nuff said.

thats a function of opportunity.

and really a pretty meaningless number, it makes it seem as if somehow winning in regulation is a bad thing because you don't get precious "OT PLAYOFF WINNERS"

You would say that.

Some guys are clutch performers and some aren't. Kane falls into the former. You're ******* kidding yourself if his ability in OT didn't factor into his most recent contract. As a matter of fact, this is EXACTLY why teams put a premium in FA/trades for guys who have come up big in the playoffs.

There is no retort for this, so even though you won't concede that I'm right, I'll just go ahead and say you'll be waving the white flag on this argument despite your penchant for always getting in a last word.

 

[DeadsetAce]

there's no way you can just dismiss a penchant for scoring PLAYOFF OT winners as a function of opportunity. after all, that opportunity comes from the work they put in during regulation and the regular season.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You would say that.

Some guys are clutch performers and some aren't. Kane falls into the former. You're ******* kidding yourself if his ability in OT didn't factor into his most recent contract. As a matter of fact, this is EXACTLY why teams put a premium in FA/trades for guys who have come up big in the playoffs.

There is no retort for this, so even though you won't concede that I'm right, I'll just go ahead and say you'll be waving the white flag on this argument despite your penchant for always getting in a last word.

I'm pretty consistent, I don't believe in clutch in any sport other than maybe basketball, most of the empirical evidence is on my side, you are appealing to emotion and "common knowledge" arguments,


ultimately

They gave Kane the contract because he's great all the time, not because he's great in a very small period of time and the smart organizations have consistently let go of mid tier "great playoff performers" rather than pay a premium to retain them.

overpaying for "proven playoff performers" have been a recipie for disaster, look at the Nathan Horton contract and David Clarkson who were billed as that upon signing.

"There is no retort for this"

Really man?, beyond being a fallacious appeal to authority, it's a level of unreasonableness that makes no sense.


but then again you think fighting helps you win games, so I guess never mind.

there's no way you can just dismiss a penchant for scoring PLAYOFF OT winners as a function of opportunity. after all, that opportunity comes from the work they put in during regulation and the regular season.

oboviosuly you have to be good at scoing goals.

but someone who has a lot of overtime game winners has to have played a lot of overtime periods so collecting that stat is mostly about opportunity. Point is that stat says less about the individual and more about the team he was on.

example.

Gretsky, Kurri, Messier all have more playoff goals than Brett Hull, are they more "clutch" than him? are they better "playoff" goal scorers? no they played more games in an NHL with worse goaltending.

Patrick Kane is probably one of my top 10 favorite players ever, but I don't believe in clutch in a chaotic instinctual sport like hockey.

 

[jjs07]

:x

 

[DeadsetAce]

these dudes out here making goalies look plain stupid

 

[theenorthstar]

 

[frink85]

just skimming the argument above, but I'd just like to say that Alec Martinez is the most clutch player in the history of hockey


edit: was gonna say the NHL, but he deserves more

 

[DeadsetAce]

my dude frink is still drunk

 

[frink85]

my dude frink is still drunk

y'all know about the Cup winner, but forgetting the Game 7 OT WCF winner vs the defending champs

that's TWO!

 

[sosly]

sam bennett had a sick goal on Mason, dude looks legit

 

[jerkstore]

This came in from NFL Shop today.  I should write on it WCF winner, too.

 

[stillin729]

these were almost the new Flyers jerseys in 1995; I would have totally had a #88

 

[frink85]

Sports teams sure did love teal in the 90s

 

[ognikehead85]

Just saw those Flyers jersey's not a fan of them always like the regular orange 

 

[True Blues]

Best organization in hockey?   Where were the Hawks before Toews and Kane? Basement. Perennially. I think that factored into the 10 mill a year.

Toews and Kane aren't generational talents? I'd say that's arguable. Pure scoring talent, no you're right. But the other things these two bring to the table elevate them over a great number of their peers. Leadership, gamers during big games, production when it matters, ect. One of them is the best talent your country has produced in years. 

That said, I do agree with you that Crosby and Malkin are better overall. 

Since Stan Bowman took over they have been one of the best organizations in hockey, innovative, one of the early organizations to really incorporate analytics, they got a coach that is receptive to analytic data, rarely overpay, manage the cap superbly.

Teams win championshipsm its a team sport, especially in a sport like hockey, where your best player only play like 30% of the game.


People act like I'm insulting Kane and Toews, because I said they aren't as good as Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin

Maybe giving too much credit to Stan Bowman.

The team's core was actually assembled largely by Dale Tallon: Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Seabrook, Bolland, Ladd, Campbell, and Big Buff were all acquired during his tenure. He was pushed out by the team under some strange circumstances, and many players -- notably, Marty Havlat -- criticized the organization for its lack of integrity at the time.

That said, Bowman deserves some credit for the role he played in rebounded after having to dump Ladd, Big Buff, Campbell and Versteeg following the 2010 Cup, which was no small feat.

(And that's not even addressing how instrumental Cheveldayoff and Bergevin were in those Cups.)

 

[theenorthstar]

 

[ognikehead85]

NHL 15 is looking like it will be a good game