Official DragonBall Z Thread. R.I.P Akira Toriyama. You will be missed

[floodarea]

gohan at SSG levels now????

yeah i’m out

you’re giving way too much credit to small interactions between specific characters

 

[Master Zik]

TOP is like the worst way to base power levels. They made it as so everyone seemed on par with power levels just to make it interesting. They had the z fighters training with Ssj blue to make em look stronger lol

Word. If I wanted I could probably use that arc for evidence to say Master Roshi is now on par with a SS.

That tournament from the outset let me know the strongest mortals in the universe aren't involved so really its just about Goku and Jiren.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

gohan at SSG levels now????

yeah i’m out

you’re giving way too much credit to small interactions between specific characters

You think beating/matching kefla is a small interaction??

 

[Master Zik]

Yeah, that's why I don't like power scaling arguments.

This whole A beat C and C struggled against B mean A and B are equal logic don't hold up.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Yeah, that's why I don't like power scaling arguments.

This whole A beat C and C struggled against B mean A and B are equal logic don't hold up.

Your problem is with the writers giving Gohans poorly written character inexplicable power ups, not power scaling lol.

 

[Master Zik]

Your problem is with the writers giving Gohans poorly written character inexplicable power ups, not power scaling lol.

Not really.

I just don't view the power up as powerful as you and/or others seem to.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Not really.

I just don't view the power up as powerful as you and/or others seem to.

So where would you rank kefla if you think gohan is below SSG?

And freiza for that matter?

 

[floodarea]

You think beating/matching kefla is a small interaction??

considering gohan had leagues of combat experience vs kefla’s basically zero, you could chalk him “matching” kefla to just that and not a matter of who has more power

 

[spiderjericho]

Which Kefla? You shared manga and Anime clips. Just goes to show the inconsistencies. The stories were different.

And the ToP was definitely a bad example of scaling with a few exceptions. Those being Hit/Jiren. Jiren/Goku and Vegeta. Toppo/Vegeta. UI Goku/Jiren.

Based on the Anime. Frieza was weaker than the big dogs (based on the clips you shared).

 

[Master Zik]

So where would you rank kefla if you think gohan is below SSG?

Doesn't really matter to me but still below Top, Jiren, Vegeta, Hit, and Goku.

Honestly didn't see enough fron that fusion and question if Kale let loose in legendary super saiyan mode is stronger anyway.

I got Android 17 and Golden Frieza stronger than Gohan too. So that's like 9 ppl just from that arc stronger than him.

I felt like Goku did a lot of paying around/training during the tournament. Every time he tried UI he was just practicing on mastering for when he faced Jiren. So I don't really look at it as he needed to go UI to beat most of the ppl he faced. The tournament had a tine limit and opponents were dropping like flies.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

considering gohan had leagues of combat experience vs kefla’s basically zero, you could chalk him “matching” kefla to just that and not a matter of who has more power

In the manga Gohan didn’t out experience kefla though. There was no strategy. They went blow for blow and knocked eachother out. I don’t think they could have made it more apparent that they were equals in power.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Which Kefla? You shared manga and Anime clips. Just goes to show the inconsistencies. The stories were different.

And the ToP was definitely a bad example of scaling with a few exceptions. Those being Hit/Jiren. Jiren/Goku and Vegeta. Toppo/Vegeta. UI Goku/Jiren.

Based on the Anime. Frieza was weaker than the big dogs (based on the clips you shared).

Manga kefla specifically. I used different examples from the anime because gohan never faced her in the anime

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Doesn't really matter to me but still below Top, Jiren, Vegeta, Hit, and Goku.

Honestly didn't see enough fron that fusion and question if Kale let loose in legendary super saiyan mode is stronger anyway.

I got Android 17 and Golden Frieza stronger than Gohan too.

Gohan can be weaker than everyone you named and still be stronger than base SSG

I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure legal has all the powers of caulifla and kale plus a multiplier. Especially considering in the manga kale was in legendary super saiyan mode when they fused

 

[Master Zik]

Gohan can be weaker than everyone you named and still be stronger than base SSG

Sure but that doesn't mean he actually is.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Sure but that doesn't mean he actually is.

Wait…let me ask you something…
Who’s stronger super buu or kid buu?

 

[Master Zik]

Wait…let me ask you something…
Who’s stronger super buu or kid buu?

Kid Buu

Super Buu was a joke.

But maybe you should be clearer about which Super Buu you're talking about cuz he looked that way after absorbing Piccolo, Gohan and Gotenks.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Kid Buu

Super Buu was a joke.

Now I see why we don’t agree on anything

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

But maybe you should be clearer about which Super Buu you're talking about cuz he looked that way after absorbing Piccolo, Gohan and Gotenks.

Vegito>>>Buuhan>>Buutenks>>Gohan>Gotenks>=Super Buu>>>Goku>=Kid Buu>Fat Buu>Vegeta

I don’t want flush out the whole buu saga but power level wise kid buu is relative to super saiyan 3 goku, who is weaker than super saiyan 3 gotenks that fought relative to super buu before ultimate gohan stepped in.

If you’ve got kid buu over any other buu other than fat buu and evil buu than we probably won’t agree much on scaling because we’re not interpreting power and feats the same way.

It’s probably why disagree on gohan in super too. If we’re going straight from the manga, I can’t see a world where a berserking/legendary ssj kale can toss around golden frieza (who know is beyond regular red haired ssg level), but gohan be weaker than ssg level for matching kefla who is stronger than kale because patora fusion combines the power of the characters fusing and multiples it. It’s why goku and vegeta go from being some of the weakest characters in the buu arc to being the strongest character in Z when they become vegito. Somewhere in that chain of ssg to kale you either think ssg is way closer to SSB than it actually is or you don’t base who’s stronger off what the characters actually do. Which is fine but if that’s the case then we’re not actually having the same conversation

Also worth mentioning when I says “scales to” or “relative to”, I’m just saying some one has reached a threshold of power another person as reached based on who they’ve fought, how well they fought against them, and who they defeated. So If I said Hit is relative to SSB x kaioken, it means that Hit is atleast that strong. Not that he’s stronger than goku of equal with goku in all ways.

 

[s-blaze]

Random, but was Trunks ascended form ever given a real name?

Back in the Black arc.

 

[amitt5504]

Random, but was Trunks ascended form ever given a real name?

Back in the Black arc.

Super Saiayan Rage lol

 

[spiderjericho]

I started reading the Super Manga again (thanks to the link posted in those manga excerpts). On the Universe 6 vs 7 tournament.

Goku being disappointed at Gohan lol. Also that one panel where Goku and Vegeta are fully calling the proper name of blue hair Saiyin form and Whys says just call it SSB.

Please bring back the Anime.

 

[Mambalorian]

I don’t know why any of us are arguing about power scaling. It is a FACT they’re inconsistent. Krillin says “I want to be a fighter again” and all of a sudden pushes back SSB Goku. That **** is so wild

And y’all using Gohan vs Dyspo to prove Gohan’s powers is inaccurate as hell. Dyspo - and Hit for that matter - aren’t super powerful compared to a lot of the fighters. Dyspo was just fast. He wore you down with the amount of hits he’d get in on you. Those power ups you seen were just speed blitzes and stuff. You hardly - if ever - seen dude launching ki blasts because that’s not his jam. He’s just hella fast. Hit is somewhat the same as well. His defense appears to be higher but his overall power isn’t high. He just catches you off guard with precision hits.

Gohan launches a Kamehameha at a completely base level Toppo and it does nothing at all. Nothing.

Gohan shouldn’t be at the level it’s believed he’s at. At his best, he could probably take ss3 Goku - I only say probably because in the anime after Super Buu’s fusion with Gotenks wears off Goku powers down and says he could take Super Buu with Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks without going ss3 so we know there’s some more power there for Goku along with the fighting experience.

Like someone said, at this point Master Roshi is “quite possibly knocking on the door” of ultra instinct

 

[s-blaze]

That Android 17 power up just care taking wild life animals is pretty left field as well.

 

[amitt5504]

I don’t know why any of us are arguing about power scaling. It is a FACT they’re inconsistent. Krillin says “I want to be a fighter again” and all of a sudden pushes back SSB Goku. That **** is so wild

And y’all using Gohan vs Dyspo to prove Gohan’s powers is inaccurate as hell. Dyspo - and Hit for that matter - aren’t super powerful compared to a lot of the fighters. Dyspo was just fast. He wore you down with the amount of hits he’d get in on you. Those power ups you seen were just speed blitzes and stuff. You hardly - if ever - seen dude launching ki blasts because that’s not his jam. He’s just hella fast. Hit is somewhat the same as well. His defense appears to be higher but his overall power isn’t high. He just catches you off guard with precision hits.

Gohan launches a Kamehameha at a completely base level Toppo and it does nothing at all. Nothing.

Gohan shouldn’t be at the level it’s believed he’s at. At his best, he could probably take ss3 Goku - I only say probably because in the anime after Super Buu’s fusion with Gotenks wears off Goku powers down and says he could take Super Buu with Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks without going ss3 so we know there’s some more power there for Goku along with the fighting experience.

Like someone said, at this point Master Roshi is “quite possibly knocking on the door” of ultra instinct

Bringing up Dyspo is fair because Gohan was able to keep up with his speed. GF was looking slow and flabby in comparison lol

I can agree to say it’s fair to put Gohan power level above SSJ3 (it’s confirmed) but has the “potential” to be at or above SSB

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I don’t know why any of us are arguing about power scaling. It is a FACT they’re inconsistent. Krillin says “I want to be a fighter again” and all of a sudden pushes back SSB Goku. That **** is so wild

And y’all using Gohan vs Dyspo to prove Gohan’s powers is inaccurate as hell. Dyspo - and Hit for that matter - aren’t super powerful compared to a lot of the fighters. Dyspo was just fast. He wore you down with the amount of hits he’d get in on you. Those power ups you seen were just speed blitzes and stuff. You hardly - if ever - seen dude launching ki blasts because that’s not his jam. He’s just hella fast. Hit is somewhat the same as well. His defense appears to be higher but his overall power isn’t high. He just catches you off guard with precision hits.

Gohan launches a Kamehameha at a completely base level Toppo and it does nothing at all. Nothing.

Gohan shouldn’t be at the level it’s believed he’s at. At his best, he could probably take ss3 Goku - I only say probably because in the anime after Super Buu’s fusion with Gotenks wears off Goku powers down and says he could take Super Buu with Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks without going ss3 so we know there’s some more power there for Goku along with the fighting experience.

Like someone said, at this point Master Roshi is “quite possibly knocking on the door” of ultra instinct

Dyspo vs freiza

dyspo vs gohan

yall act like im pulling things out of thin air lol im not saying dyspo is stronger than golden freiza. what i am saying is that it doesnt track that dyspo is weaker than ssg for him to land a punch and do damage to golden freiza if he didnt atleast scale higher than that. and logically IF gohan can beat dyspo he at BARE MINIMUM has at least that level of strength too. you can claim inconsistency because he was as strong at the beginning of the fight but in both the anime and manga its confirmed by vegeta, piccolo, and goku that gohan has gotten stronger as he fought through the tournament. like i said before, yall dont disagree witht he power scaling, you disagree with how the writers set up the story lol you dont like the fact that gohan keeps getting written into and out of relevance every other arc. you want to call it crappy storytelling go ahead, i dont disagree with you


as for the gohan probably being as strong as ss3 goku, chapter 506 says otherwise. goku says himself that both him and vegeta couldnt take him on even after disconnecting piccolo, gohan goten and trunks.

and he reverts right back to the form that he was getting his *ss kicked by ultimate gohan a few chapter earlier