- 90,879
- 124,521
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2010
Teague is beasting out there.
OFFICIAL 2010-2011 NBA PLAYOFFS THREAD : VOL. MOST. ANTICIPATED. PLAYOFFS. EVER?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by bigmike23,
- Start date
darthska
Staff member
- 46,101
- 30,288
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2004
I keep bringing this up with the Phil Jackson argument, and I want an answer from someone who thinks Phil is overrated or hates Phil or doesn't think he deserves credit for being more than average or just however you want to word your feelings towards him:
Phil Jackson comes in after Doug Collins, and begins to coach that team to DOMINANCE. Collins was there 3 years, won 40, 50, and 47 games those 3 season. Phil's first 3 years? 55 (already topping Doug's highest mark), 61 (NBA championship), 67 (and another championship). Of course we all now he continued to win more, but looking at those 3 years compared to Doug's is fair, because I think most would agree that Doug is at least decent.
Then later he takes over for Del Harris, and takes the team from 31 wins under Del to 67 wins and a championship the first of 3. Now, I now, I know: "C'mon, ska, you're going from comparing Doug & Phil to comparing Del & Phil." No, Del Harris doesn't belong in a conversation of great coaches. BUT LOOK WHAT PHIL DID THE VERY NEXT YEAR. You would expect a great coach to take over for a terrible coach and completely turn things around, right? Well, that's exactly what he did. *shrugs*
He's great.
Phil Jackson comes in after Doug Collins, and begins to coach that team to DOMINANCE. Collins was there 3 years, won 40, 50, and 47 games those 3 season. Phil's first 3 years? 55 (already topping Doug's highest mark), 61 (NBA championship), 67 (and another championship). Of course we all now he continued to win more, but looking at those 3 years compared to Doug's is fair, because I think most would agree that Doug is at least decent.
Then later he takes over for Del Harris, and takes the team from 31 wins under Del to 67 wins and a championship the first of 3. Now, I now, I know: "C'mon, ska, you're going from comparing Doug & Phil to comparing Del & Phil." No, Del Harris doesn't belong in a conversation of great coaches. BUT LOOK WHAT PHIL DID THE VERY NEXT YEAR. You would expect a great coach to take over for a terrible coach and completely turn things around, right? Well, that's exactly what he did. *shrugs*
He's great.
- 8,956
- 39
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
He was nice at Wake, took him a while to finally show out but I like him out there more then Bibby or Hinrich.
- 2,707
- 3,400
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2009
should have been atleast 10
yes it shuda been 10 gms & 50k fine imo he got off 2 easy smh
- 29,630
- 1,862
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2003
ska the celtics and pistons got older and more beat down as the bulls climbed up the ladder to greatness with PJ over Mr. "i used to coach michael"
just like this heat team assembled 3 years ago doesnt beat the celtics or lakers
just like this heat team assembled 3 years ago doesnt beat the celtics or lakers
darthska
Staff member
- 46,101
- 30,288
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2004
I wish it were important enough to me to jot down the names of everyone making a big deal of the Bynum foul, just so I can bring it back up if those people ever complain about the league being too soft.
And I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong, so don't even come with that.
I'm not even saying he was justified. It was terrible, he was given an F2, kicked out, and now suspended 5 games. But talking about how that wasn't enough? Like I said, I wish it were important enough to me to jot down everyone who feels that way.
And I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong, so don't even come with that.
I'm not even saying he was justified. It was terrible, he was given an F2, kicked out, and now suspended 5 games. But talking about how that wasn't enough? Like I said, I wish it were important enough to me to jot down everyone who feels that way.
- 11,980
- 18
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
I see what your getting at Osh...It's why the Championship argument kind of is stupid at time but kind of not. Winning rings does matter but I despise those Kobe fan's who when ever you say anything negative about dude will say something like "5 rings" or whatever nonsense. Luck plays a huge part in determining the outcome of one's career. Just for instance, you think Rondo is the player he is now not having gone through his formative years playing next to three HOF guys? Of coure not. If he had gone into a %*%#!% situation I could see him riding the pine somewhere almost never playing especially with his jumper.
Knowing you OKB I'm willing to bet you think Dirk is better than Kobe and I wouldn't necessarily say you are wrong in a sense. I mean the best guy Dirk ever played with in his prime was Jason %%$#%*+ Terry
. Aside from Hakeem, I can't think of a superstar whose ever had a worst cast than Dirk. I think its impressive Duncan with 3 with Ginoblili and Parker cause those guys to mean are second tier all-stars. But those guys are a huge upgrade compared to what Dirk had around him. I mean without a horrible officiating performance, Dirk might already have a ring but the fact is he doesn't.
Luck is everything in basketball. The hilarious thing about the LeBron move getting criticized to me especially from the older guys who made it seem like they won rings themselves. Magic played with one of the 3 greatest players EVER! I mean he came on to a team with IMO the best center of all-time. I'm pretty sure no one ever told Magic, "Leave Kareem and go win it yourself"
. Bird is idolized but played with 4 HOF guys through his career, McHale, Parish, Archibald and DJ. No one wins chips by themselves, except for Hakeem in 93 really, but that was when the league was very watered down talent-wise. So LeBron decided to create his own luck, something he never had shread of playing in Cleveland. I mean the guy who was supposed to be his running mate was Larry Hughes
.
I heard someone say Derrick Rose is better than 'Bron cause he has been in the playoffs every single year...Yea, well the Bulls weren't supposed to be the #1 pick, that was a team with a core that had beaten the Defending Champion Heat a few years prior. He was lucky and got to go to a team that already had some decent established guys.
As for Kobe, people think I dislike the guy on here. I don't at all. I loved Kobe especially from 05 to 08 the 3 years to me that he was the best player in the league. He was a beast, a carbon copy of Jordan during those years. The man knew his team was trash and went out hard every night, dropped 30, guarded your team's best player and did it all. I always take about the Olympics on here because I think it shows a lot when you have the best playersin the world on one team at the same time. Certain dynamics emerge. On the redeem team, the way those guys looked up to Kobe and the way he commanded respect from those guys was amazing. You could all see the reverence they held for him and that speaks miles. I think he's top prolly top-10 all-time, and he is still vying for Best Player Post-Jordan with Shaq and Duncan. How you rate those 3 to me is all subjective, you could really make a case for anyone of them. But there are many negatives to him. He is a %*%#!% teammate and leader. He will never be a guy that can really inspire guys around him and as much as CP will tell you its amazing that those Lakers won 3 in a row, those teams left you wanting more and it was mainly due to Kobe's immaturity.
I think he is just a generally weird guy, very smart, but just odd. Has always struck me as odd. I always mention this, but the guy lives in LA and I think I can't remember seeing one flick of him in a club partying with celebs. His devotion to the game of basketball is unparalleld, he lives, sleeps and breathes it. He is the biggest "go-hard" "thirst" of all-time. IT matters to him. Even when it doesn't matter at all, like this year's all-star game. The guy was visiblly trying twice as hard as everyone else from the start. But you know what, as corny as that is, he brings it and that matters.
Knowing you OKB I'm willing to bet you think Dirk is better than Kobe and I wouldn't necessarily say you are wrong in a sense. I mean the best guy Dirk ever played with in his prime was Jason %%$#%*+ Terry
Luck is everything in basketball. The hilarious thing about the LeBron move getting criticized to me especially from the older guys who made it seem like they won rings themselves. Magic played with one of the 3 greatest players EVER! I mean he came on to a team with IMO the best center of all-time. I'm pretty sure no one ever told Magic, "Leave Kareem and go win it yourself"
I heard someone say Derrick Rose is better than 'Bron cause he has been in the playoffs every single year...Yea, well the Bulls weren't supposed to be the #1 pick, that was a team with a core that had beaten the Defending Champion Heat a few years prior. He was lucky and got to go to a team that already had some decent established guys.
As for Kobe, people think I dislike the guy on here. I don't at all. I loved Kobe especially from 05 to 08 the 3 years to me that he was the best player in the league. He was a beast, a carbon copy of Jordan during those years. The man knew his team was trash and went out hard every night, dropped 30, guarded your team's best player and did it all. I always take about the Olympics on here because I think it shows a lot when you have the best playersin the world on one team at the same time. Certain dynamics emerge. On the redeem team, the way those guys looked up to Kobe and the way he commanded respect from those guys was amazing. You could all see the reverence they held for him and that speaks miles. I think he's top prolly top-10 all-time, and he is still vying for Best Player Post-Jordan with Shaq and Duncan. How you rate those 3 to me is all subjective, you could really make a case for anyone of them. But there are many negatives to him. He is a %*%#!% teammate and leader. He will never be a guy that can really inspire guys around him and as much as CP will tell you its amazing that those Lakers won 3 in a row, those teams left you wanting more and it was mainly due to Kobe's immaturity.
I think he is just a generally weird guy, very smart, but just odd. Has always struck me as odd. I always mention this, but the guy lives in LA and I think I can't remember seeing one flick of him in a club partying with celebs. His devotion to the game of basketball is unparalleld, he lives, sleeps and breathes it. He is the biggest "go-hard" "thirst" of all-time. IT matters to him. Even when it doesn't matter at all, like this year's all-star game. The guy was visiblly trying twice as hard as everyone else from the start. But you know what, as corny as that is, he brings it and that matters.
- 6,376
- 433
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2007
Theres a difference between tough and dirty though.
darthska
Staff member
- 46,101
- 30,288
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2004
- 3,995
- 44
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2004
Nah, if Buss had been more patient with Del Harris they would have got those three titles.
- 9,622
- 783
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2009
What do you consider the height of the western conference because I figured that came when they were making the playoffs in the late 00s
darthska
Staff member
- 46,101
- 30,288
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2004
- 11,980
- 18
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
Didn't watch the game tonight but good to see Teague played well. Slowly starting to put that potential together.
Once again, I think Atlanta has very good pieces to make a trade for Dwight.
Once again, I think Atlanta has very good pieces to make a trade for Dwight.
- 90,879
- 124,521
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2010
Imagine if they didn't give up Jordan Crawford and a first round pick to rent Kirk Hinrich for the next year and a half.
big j 33
Supporter
- 35,910
- 16,633
- Joined
- May 31, 2006
Ska, Wade did get a foul called on him and that's as far as it should have gone. Rondo grabbed Wade as they were backing up, Wade pulled him down as he was falling... foul was appropriately called, freak injury aside.
Bynum jumped up and elbowed a player mid-air once the game was already decided.
If you want to argue both plays dirty, then that's your call, but regardless of if you think they're both dirty, they were two different types of fouls. I'm ALL for the league getting tougher and I'm not arguing that Bynum be kicked out or give him 50 games, I think his suspension and fine is fair... but that type of play doesn't belong in the game in that situation and it's not comparable to Wade's foul.
Bynum jumped up and elbowed a player mid-air once the game was already decided.
If you want to argue both plays dirty, then that's your call, but regardless of if you think they're both dirty, they were two different types of fouls. I'm ALL for the league getting tougher and I'm not arguing that Bynum be kicked out or give him 50 games, I think his suspension and fine is fair... but that type of play doesn't belong in the game in that situation and it's not comparable to Wade's foul.
darthska
Staff member
- 46,101
- 30,288
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2004
I hear you, Big J.
And I didn't realize Wade even got a foul call. I definitely think it should have been more, injury aside. At least a flagrant.
And Bynum, I don't know... I guess in my mind, I don't see how the result would have been any different if Bynum would have committed what we call a body foul. If he would have jumped into Barea without trying to be dirty, Barea would have still landed the same way, but I doubt a F2 and an ejection would have been called. Foul, Barea goes to the line after wiping himself off no biggie. But since it was a rib shot instead of a body foul, it's "Oooooh, dirty player!", but body fouls happen every quarter of every game. :/
And I didn't realize Wade even got a foul call. I definitely think it should have been more, injury aside. At least a flagrant.
And Bynum, I don't know... I guess in my mind, I don't see how the result would have been any different if Bynum would have committed what we call a body foul. If he would have jumped into Barea without trying to be dirty, Barea would have still landed the same way, but I doubt a F2 and an ejection would have been called. Foul, Barea goes to the line after wiping himself off no biggie. But since it was a rib shot instead of a body foul, it's "Oooooh, dirty player!", but body fouls happen every quarter of every game. :/
- 6,376
- 433
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2007
You cant just focus on the result though. I dont think this was a play where the result is the terrible part. Barea isnt seriously injured, so its not about the result of the play. Its about when Bynum did it, how he did it, and his reactions afterwards.
I dont know if its possible to hypothetically reenact that situation with a body foul instead.
I want the league tougher too, but that kind of childish act shouldnt be tolerated.
- 5,270
- 11
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2006
You have to be in a club and party in order to be normal ?Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1
I see what your getting at Osh...It's why the Championship argument kind of is stupid at time but kind of not. Winning rings does matter but I despise those Kobe fan's who when ever you say anything negative about dude will say something like "5 rings" or whatever nonsense. Luck plays a huge part in determining the outcome of one's career. Just for instance, you think Rondo is the player he is now not having gone through his formative years playing next to three HOF guys? Of coure not. If he had gone into a %*%#!% situation I could see him riding the pine somewhere almost never playing especially with his jumper.
Knowing you OKB I'm willing to bet you think Dirk is better than Kobe and I wouldn't necessarily say you are wrong in a sense. I mean the best guy Dirk ever played with in his prime was Jason %%$#%*+ Terry. Aside from Hakeem, I can't think of a superstar whose ever had a worst cast than Dirk. I think its impressive Duncan with 3 with Ginoblili and Parker cause those guys to mean are second tier all-stars. But those guys are a huge upgrade compared to what Dirk had around him. I mean without a horrible officiating performance, Dirk might already have a ring but the fact is he doesn't.
Luck is everything in basketball. The hilarious thing about the LeBron move getting criticized to me especially from the older guys who made it seem like they won rings themselves. Magic played with one of the 3 greatest players EVER! I mean he came on to a team with IMO the best center of all-time. I'm pretty sure no one ever told Magic, "Leave Kareem and go win it yourself". Bird is idolized but played with 4 HOF guys through his career, McHale, Parish, Archibald and DJ. No one wins chips by themselves, except for Hakeem in 93 really, but that was when the league was very watered down talent-wise. So LeBron decided to create his own luck, something he never had shread of playing in Cleveland. I mean the guy who was supposed to be his running mate was Larry Hughes.
I heard someone say Derrick Rose is better than 'Bron cause he has been in the playoffs every single year...Yea, well the Bulls weren't supposed to be the #1 pick, that was a team with a core that had beaten the Defending Champion Heat a few years prior. He was lucky and got to go to a team that already had some decent established guys.
As for Kobe, people think I dislike the guy on here. I don't at all. I loved Kobe especially from 05 to 08 the 3 years to me that he was the best player in the league. He was a beast, a carbon copy of Jordan during those years. The man knew his team was trash and went out hard every night, dropped 30, guarded your team's best player and did it all. I always take about the Olympics on here because I think it shows a lot when you have the best playersin the world on one team at the same time. Certain dynamics emerge. On the redeem team, the way those guys looked up to Kobe and the way he commanded respect from those guys was amazing. You could all see the reverence they held for him and that speaks miles. I think he's top prolly top-10 all-time, and he is still vying for Best Player Post-Jordan with Shaq and Duncan. How you rate those 3 to me is all subjective, you could really make a case for anyone of them. But there are many negatives to him. He is a %*%#!% teammate and leader. He will never be a guy that can really inspire guys around him and as much as CP will tell you its amazing that those Lakers won 3 in a row, those teams left you wanting more and it was mainly due to Kobe's immaturity.
I think he is just a generally weird guy, very smart, but just odd. Has always struck me as odd. I always mention this, but the guy lives in LA and I think I can't remember seeing one flick of him in a club partying with celebs. His devotion to the game of basketball is unparalleld, he lives, sleeps and breathes it. He is the biggest "go-hard" "thirst" of all-time. IT matters to him. Even when it doesn't matter at all, like this year's all-star game. The guy was visiblly trying twice as hard as everyone else from the start. But you know what, as corny as that is, he brings it and that matters.
- 15,139
- 4,382
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
Considering those baby bulls were reaching their peak and the Pistons were losing theirs gives huge advantage to Phil. Scotty and Grant were in their baby years with Collins.
As well as getting Cartwright, Perdue, BJ and King.
With the Lakers Kobe was just getting better each yearand there was a ton of acquisitions when Phil went there.
- 11,980
- 18
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
Not really. Dude hasn't had a real close relationship with any of his teammates over the years. If you read Phil Jackson's book, you know how distant he was from the rest of those early Laker squads. He got married at 19 to a bird and had a following out with his parents over it. He is a loner, plain and simple.
And yes, I consider normal people those who go out somewhat. He is a worshipped athlete in a city known for its nightlife, I'm not saying he has to be Hugh Hef or be doing lines with Paris Hilton but I've never even heard about stories about him going out. Anyone who has that devotion to the game of basketball like he does is weird to me. It's why Shaq is a normal guy. If Shaq cared about ball like Kobe did he would be wearing def. more than 4 rings, but Shaq is a normal, cool dude. He has other interests and has went from being poor to having crazy wealth. He'd rather give a 3.0 effort than a 4.0 effort, Kobe gives a 4.5 effort.
And yes, I consider normal people those who go out somewhat. He is a worshipped athlete in a city known for its nightlife, I'm not saying he has to be Hugh Hef or be doing lines with Paris Hilton but I've never even heard about stories about him going out. Anyone who has that devotion to the game of basketball like he does is weird to me. It's why Shaq is a normal guy. If Shaq cared about ball like Kobe did he would be wearing def. more than 4 rings, but Shaq is a normal, cool dude. He has other interests and has went from being poor to having crazy wealth. He'd rather give a 3.0 effort than a 4.0 effort, Kobe gives a 4.5 effort.
big j 33
Supporter
- 35,910
- 16,633
- Joined
- May 31, 2006
AMP writes that whole essay and this guy singles out the last little comment, talking about normal? Come on man..
Edit:
- 29,630
- 1,862
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2003
ska he decked him mid air game four of a sweep.
he didn't set a tone for a series. do that in the first game where someone has a four point lead and its completley diff
he didn't set a tone for a series. do that in the first game where someone has a four point lead and its completley diff
darthska
Staff member
- 46,101
- 30,288
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2004
Enh, I kinda see what y'all are saying.
I know it would be easy to say I'm just looking at through Laker goggles, but I swear I've never had much of a problem with those types of plays.
I know it would be easy to say I'm just looking at through Laker goggles, but I swear I've never had much of a problem with those types of plays.
|A-Man|
formerly atgd7154xbbxmz
- 17,340
- 2,011
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2011
C'mon now that Bynum foul is something you'd see in a game of jail ball.
