OFFICIAL 2009 DODGERS OFFSEASON THREAD: (95-57) NL West Champs --- NLCS Chumps

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by bright nikes

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

Your expectations are not realistic.

I'm done bro, keep thinking that.

I'll say it again, a 20+ year drought on not bringing home a WS title and for fans to EXPECT this organization to do something about that is unrealistic?

The best way to build a championshp team, and it can be cited time and time again, is to develop a strong pitching staff with some power arms, and to develop a core of solid regular position players.

So you're telling me in the last 2 decades the Dodgers haven't done that?

Expecting them to do something is perfectly fine. I never said I was perfectly satisfied with our front office, in fact I probably dislikeColletti more than anyone in this thread.

What I keep saying over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again is that it is 10000048958974% ridiculous to consider thecurrent circumstances and "demand" a World Series.

I don't know how many ways it can be said, or how many times I have to say it. There is absolutely nothing a team can do outside the month of October(well, November now because Fox has Selig bent over) that will provide some kind of magic guarantee that they will win a title. The only thing an organizationcan do is to build a consistent winner and hope to combine a few deadline deals with a lot of luck and win a WS or two during the run of their top playersprime years.

The McCourts have done a decent job in trying to build the Dodgers into a consistent winner. To say that haven't done that would be untrue.

But I'm not saying Dodger fans shouldn't hope for a title. I'm saying that the (for lack of a better term) Laker/Yankee fan attitude that theleague owes them titles because they are so high and mighty is pretty silly and very annoying. I mean, if you're gonna employ some sort of elitistattitude that you deserve a championship and that regardless of any other circumstances you are completely disappointed then you should at least go cheer for ateam that has a owner other than the one who's telling the LA Times that he has no money just for divorce court posturing.

The thing that gets me the most, is that ya'll LOVE to go on rants about how we deserve a championship right away and that it's ridiculous to conductany sort of business that doesn't involve a 7 game series in the Fall. The Dodgers are doing what I'd imagine is their best to build a winning team,and they're at least trying to go about it somewhat the right way.

The way I see it, you're either advocating some sort of ridiculous free agent spending which has been proven numerous times to not work, or you'realong for the ride with the Jacksonville 5 and taking the bumps and bruises to know that when they are able to finally break through and get to the title.

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with Bill Plaschke?

 

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by ooIRON MANoo

I don't need to post a bunch of stats to prove my point.

Please don't do that, the Jonathan Broxton debate didn't end too well.

 

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with Bill Plaschke?

Get the $!%# off your high horse already

 

[p mac one]

I'm not on a high horse, I'm being serious.

I come with well thought out replies and you just drop little one line anecdotes and cliches.

%%*+'s annoying

 

[mr jordan04]

calmense mujeres

really see no point to the Halladay deal by the Phillies,

. Sorry, I don't.

Trading an Ace for an Ace,

Cliff Lee was lights out for the Phillies last year, he won the World Series MVP. He had a miniscule ERA, he was almost perfect...untouchable. Is Roy Halladay really that much better?

i kinda thought the same. an ace for an ace

but the phillies did it cuz at least they'll have halladay for 4 years (this year + 3 year extension). cliff lee was gonna test the market and they weregonna have to battle with the yanks/sox and any other team throwing big money at him
the only problem i see with the deal is that hallday has been injured/missed a few starts within the past couple years with arm/elbow troubles (not 100% surewhat it is, i just know he's been out)
but that seattle staff 1-3 now has the potential of being

 

[dland24]

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

When you get to the level of perennial playoff team, you can start to make some more risks trading prospects to acquire that World Series. That time will come for the Dodgers in about 3 or 4 years.

Until then ... patience. (and a new owner)

Ive been reading the past few pages, and THIS stood out to me as something to comment on. You are absolutely nuts if you think 3 to 4 years from now is thetime to take risks and try to win that World Series. Your time is NOW, and if you dont take advantage, it might pass you by. You will NOT be in a betterposition in 3 to 4 years than you are now. No chance.

(please save the Giants smack talk)

 

[ooiron manoo]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

When you get to the level of perennial playoff team, you can start to make some more risks trading prospects to acquire that World Series. That time will come for the Dodgers in about 3 or 4 years.

Until then ... patience. (and a new owner)

Ive been reading the past few pages, and THIS stood out to me as something to comment on. You are absolutely nuts if you think 3 to 4 years from now is the time to take risks and try to win that World Series. Your time is NOW, and if you dont take advantage, it might pass you by. You will NOT be in a better position in 3 to 4 years than you are now. No chance.

(please save the Giants smack talk)

The window isn't closing. I think we will be fine from this point, until possibly 2012.

In other news:

[h1]http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dodgerthoughts/2009/12/tony-jackson.html[/h1]

[h1]Tony Jackson to cover Josh Towers aspiring to play north of Watts Towers[/h1]
December 11, 2009 | 9:33 pm

Former Daily News writer Tony Jackson will be the Dodger beat writer for ESPN.com's soon-to-be-launched Los Angeles branch. Mark Timmons of L.A. Dodger Talk (where we last saw Jackson) confirmed with the man himself. Glad to have Jackson back on the beat.

 

[in yo nostril]

Originally Posted by ooIRON MANoo

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

When you get to the level of perennial playoff team, you can start to make some more risks trading prospects to acquire that World Series. That time will come for the Dodgers in about 3 or 4 years.

Until then ... patience. (and a new owner)

Ive been reading the past few pages, and THIS stood out to me as something to comment on. You are absolutely nuts if you think 3 to 4 years from now is the time to take risks and try to win that World Series. Your time is NOW, and if you dont take advantage, it might pass you by. You will NOT be in a better position in 3 to 4 years than you are now. No chance.

(please save the Giants smack talk)

The window isn't closing. I think we will be fine from this point, until possibly 2012.

In other news:

[h1]http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dodgerthoughts/2009/12/tony-jackson.html[/h1]

[h1]Tony Jackson to cover Josh Towers aspiring to play north of Watts Towers[/h1]
December 11, 2009 | 9:33 pm

Former Daily News writer Tony Jackson will be the Dodger beat writer for ESPN.com's soon-to-be-launched Los Angeles branch. Mark Timmons of L.A. Dodger Talk (where we last saw Jackson) confirmed with the man himself. Glad to have Jackson back on the beat.

agreed with the 2012 thing if everything calms down with the ownership. i think right now i just have this fear that the team could be stripped for somereason.

 

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

When you get to the level of perennial playoff team, you can start to make some more risks trading prospects to acquire that World Series. That time will come for the Dodgers in about 3 or 4 years.

Until then ... patience. (and a new owner)

Ive been reading the past few pages, and THIS stood out to me as something to comment on. You are absolutely nuts if you think 3 to 4 years from now is the time to take risks and try to win that World Series. You will NOT be in a better position in 3 to 4 years than you are now. No chance.

(please save the Giants smack talk)

We have a 25 year old CF who was 2nd to Torii Hunter in OPS among CFs, and won a Gold Glove. My guess is that he'll be around for a while. The guy thatplays next to him in RF is heading into his age 28 season with 80 2bs and 51 HRs in his past two seasons. Those guys will be around for a while. So willMartin, Loney, Kershaw, Billingsley, Broxton and a bunch of guys about to break into the Majors.

To stay that I'm absolutely nuts is pretty ridiculous. The point that I'm making is that every successful franchise has a plan on how their going toapproach things on a short-term and a long-term scale. The Dodgers have a bunch of good young players that aren't going anywhere soon. Ned is already dumbenough to trade Carlos Santana for $2 Million, and not offer Randy Wolf arbitration. The thought that any kind of "risk it all to win the WorldSeries" would be a good idea is laughable.

Your time is NOW, and if you dont take advantage, it might pass you by.
I mean, I guess you could say that, but in reality the Dodgers as they are currently constructed will be a much better team in two or 3 seasons.At that point, Kershaw and Billingsley will be more experienced and into their prime years, and our young position players will also be into their prime years.

It's almost too easy to tear apart your argument. Every single person who's ever known baseball knows that most players peak at age 27 or somewherearound there. I mean hell, there's even roto sites telling people to pick up on 27 year olds because almost everybody has a career year around then.

Even if the Dodgers didn't have possibly the most dysfunctional ownership ever, you could still prove an easy argument that trying to make drastic movesthat jeopardize the future significantly is akin to trading the best hitting Catcher ever before his prime even started.

You will NOT be in a better position in 3 to 4 years than you are now. No chance.
Compelling argument, but Dee Gordon and Chris Withrow strongly disagree.

 

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by In Yo Nostril

agreed with the 2012 thing if everything calms down with the ownership. i think right now i just have this fear that the team could be stripped for some reason.

That's why I'm choosing to look at it from the positive angle (surprise, I know)

The McCourts never had any money. Bud steered away buyers with money for whatever reason.

They were successful a degree, but never really earned any money

This ridiculous divorce is a chance for the fans to possibly (and it seems increasingly likely by the day) get a new owner.

There's no telling who that owner would be, but it couldnt be worse.

 

[sinser13]

[h1]http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/white-sox-acquire-juan-pierre.html[/h1]

[h1]White Sox Acquire Juan Pierre[/h1]
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 15, 2009 at 9:52am CST]

The White Sox acquired Juan Pierre from the Dodgers for two minor league pitchers, according to Yahoo's Tim Brown. The Dodgers will take on roughly half of Pierre's salary. The outfielder has $18.5MM remaining on his deal ($10MM next year and $8.5MM in 2011), so the Dodgers are taking on about $9MM.

 

[Los Angeles]

Now Pierre gets that playing time he deserves, always was a professional and was a great mentor to the young kids.

It was down to the Tigers or the White Sox for Pierre, he should be playing LF for them.

I wonder if these minor leaguers are part of a package the Dodgers are trying to make? I would have expected to at least take on a player that would havecontributed for Pierre.

Edit:

Thought it was $9M, here's an update.

10:43am: The White Sox will pay $3MM of Pierre's salary in 2010 and $5MM of it in 2011, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney. That means the Dodgers will pay the remaining $10.5MM.

 

[mr jordan04]

Damn the dodgers taking more L's with outfielders

 

[eyegiantjackpot]

FOR PROSPECTS!??!??! AND WE PAY 10 MIL STILL?!?!

you mean to tell me.. there is a guy playing for another team now, who is in the top 5 or 10 of my team in salary still? and we got "prospects" for aguy who can hit 300 and run fast?

oh and we "saved" 3 mil?


while over the last 2 years, the phils had hamel, lee, martinez, and now halliday? and have the option to trade one of those dudes and still be a tough team tobeat?

WHY IS THIS HAPPENING TO ME? WHY?


how much are we paying andruw and juan? its gotta be something stupid. probably more than the "solid core of kids" combined.

GOTTA be the worst management in baseball for a team in such a large market.

 

[frenchblue23]

It's the worst Money Management, because I don't agree with the Large Money to Shorter Years ratio.

I hate how Ned does that. It has backfired with Schmidt, Jones, and now Pierre.

But reading the last few pages, Bright and Pmac going at it

This team needs improvement, but not the drastic kind.

The team is still super young, so I can't wait to see what Matt Kemp does next year, and how Ethier will follow-up from last year.

Kershaw will be #1 IMO, with Bills to follow, then you have Kuroda as well. I'm crossing my fingers for a power bullpen guy, and a starting pitcher.(Wang)

 

[eyegiantjackpot]

so we are gonna bank on wang who could basically end up being another schmidt?

a few great years, a TERRIBLE year last year, and cant throw till may?

i know a few posts back i was for it, until i read that he cant throw until may. that means he gets no tests thru spring training.
sounds like another gamble to me, and with our track record:

kevin brown
dreifort
schmidt


dont expect me to put money down.

 

[sinser13]

The Dodgers will select two pitching prospects from a list furnished by the White Sox, a source told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark. The names on the list are all pitchers who could reach the big leagues by 2010, the source said.

 

[Los Angeles]

Possible Players Acquired, with scouting reports by Baseball HQ:

12. Jon Link RHP.....26.....2005 (26) Virginia Commonwealth by San Diego Padres

Team (LG)         W-L ERA    IP  CMD  K/9  oppBA ==============    === ==== ===== ==== ==== =====  Charlotte (IL)    1-2 3.99  56.1  2.4 10.5  256MLE               1-2 5.67  56.1  2.0  9.2  292

Strengths: Plus 88-94 MPH fastball. Hard slider. Changeup. Pitch movement.
Weaknesses: LHH. FB command. Control. Inconsistent slider.
Comments: Powerful reliever has closing experience and could evolve into legitimate late-innings option in Majors. Possesses three average to above average offerings with sinker, SL, and CU. Erratic mechanics and release point hinder control and needs to set up piches better.
2010 MLB Role: Short reliever
Potential Rating: 7B

14. John Ely RHP.....23.....2007 (3) Miami-OH

Team (LG)         W-L ERA    IP  CMD  K/9  oppBA ==============    === ==== ===== ==== ==== =====  Birmingham (SL)  14-2 2.82 156.1  2.5  7.2  241MLE              14-2 3.86 156.1  2.0  6.2  274

Strengths: Plus curveball. 87-92 MPH fastball. Groundballer. Strong frame. Aggressiveness. Deception.
Weaknesses: Changeup. Stiff arm action. Effort in delivery.
Comments: Short and strong pitcher with fringe-average velocity, but keeps hitters off-balance with sinking changeup. Complements moving fastball with plus curveball and mixes pitches well. Commands plate and induces groundballs, but doesn't dominate. Effort in delivery may lead to durability issues.
2010 MLB Role: Middle reliever
Potential Rating: 7C


[h1]http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/chapman-works-out-in-front-of-15-teams.html[/h1]

[h1]Chapman Works Out In Front Of 15 Teams[/h1]
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 15 at 1:38pm CST]

Cuban lefty Aroldis Chapman worked out in front of about 15 teams in Houston today, according to Jorge Arangure Jr. of ESPN.com. The Astros and Pirates were there, along with the Angels, Marlins, Pirates, Orioles, Yankees, Red Sox and others. The Dodgers weren't there because they don't have the money to bid, according to Arangure Jr.'s Twitter.

The teams saw the 21-year-old throw for five minutes two different times. Chapman's fastball topped out at 96 mph and he also threw his slider and change-up. Arangure Jr. expects several teams to meet with him today.

[h1]Frank McCourt: Jamie and BF Deceived Team[/h1]
Posted Dec 14th 2009 7:53PM by TMZ Staff

Frank McCourt claims his estranged wife Jamie McCourt is screwing with his baseball team -- the Los Angeles Dodgers -- and he's now asking the divorce judge to end the marriage and get Jamie out of his life for good -- STAT.

Frank filed legal documents this afternoon -- obtained by TMZ -- claiming last week, Jamie's boyfriend, ex-Dodger employee Jeff Fuller, went to Taiwan and met with "a high-ranking Taiwanese government official," falsely holding himself out as a Dodger official.

The Dodgers had been discussing the possibility of playing exhibition games in Taiwan in Spring, 2010. According to a declaration by Acey Kohrogi, Director of Asian Operations for the Dodgers, Fuller was pretending to represent the Dodgers in the Asian market.

McCourt claims in the docs that Jamie -- whom he fired as Dodgers CEO in October -- has had a negative impact on the Dodgers and Major League Baseball as she "drags her feet [and] promotes herself, directly and through her surrogate Fuller, as a co-owner of the team."

McCourt even included a letter from Robert Manfred, who works in the office of the Commissioner of Major League Baseball. Manfred wrote, "The Commissioner has asked me to urge you to resolve this matter as quickly as possible to avoid future problems of this type."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/14/frank-mccourt-jamie-and-boyfriend-are-frauds/#ixzz0ZmwAmd1C

Frank is asking the judge to put the divorce on the fast track and get it over with immediately.

Jamie's rep, Michael Sitrick, tells TMZ, "Jeff took the trip on his own and any meetings he had or actions he took were not on behalf of Jamie or with the knowledge of Jamie." Sitrick says he didn't ask Jamie if she's ticked off with Jeff.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/14/frank-mccourt-jamie-and-boyfriend-are-frauds/#ixzz0ZmwCdHLx

 

[bigmike23]

Your time is NOW, and if you dont take advantage, it might pass you by.

how is this NOT the truth?

i can go down the list of pro sports teams that have had a shot to win with a mix of very good players but held on them to long with out making the right movesor sitting on making THAT key move that would push them over the top and never did. and the time passed them up


will these players be better in 2-3 years? ya some of them but some of these guys are who they are right now.

now this year with the owner crap some of you are right we cant make any moves

but what about last offseason? what about at the trade deadline?

i like that over the last few years we have made a few small moves that paided off big time durning the season but why not do that and also make a big move.

do you realize that if manny had never hit that old man in the front office we would have made zero big moves over the last 3 seasons?

i like the dodgers not a die hard like some of yall and i hope they prove me wrong and win it all next year but i look at this team now and see the same thinggoing down. meeting the phillys in the 2nd round and getting the breaks beat off of us.

and im sorry but if you call your self a elite sports team in ALL major pro sports getting beat 2 years in a row in the 2nd round is not good enough. maybe fora team that has never done anything but not the dodgers

 

[p mac one]

[h3]http://www.dodgerdivorce.com/2009/12/its-date.html[/h3]

[h3]It's a date.[/h3]---
Today, Commissioner Gordon decided that the trial on the validity of the McCourt post-nup will begin on May 24, reports the Times' Bill Shaikin. The Times' Dylan Hernandez also had it on Twitter. Jon Weisman has an interesting link at Dodger Thoughts, as well. The decision is something of a compromise, as Frank was seeking a February start while Jamie wanted to wait until fall. So today's something of a win for Frank, and I think the decision was perfectly reasonable.

Jamie definitely deserves time to build her case, which won't be an easy one. That said, she's got five months--that should be plenty. What's more, today's proceedings likely put the court (and Frank's legal team) on notice of the type of information Jamie needs to make her case. This, combined with a hard deadline, means that she'll have some judicial remedies should Frank's lawyers drag their feet on document production.

So what's it mean on the field? Well, it's tempting to suggest that Frank may have outright ownership of the team (and certainty going forward) by the time of year when adding a piece or two might be appropriate. But even if Frank wins on the post-nup, does that change the availability of funds for this season? Remember, it's only been a week since honcho Dennis Mannion said that whatever impact the divorce had on club finances wouldn't hit player payroll until 2011. As we've discussed, the Dodgers' financial problems aren't limited to the divorce. Cash isn't flowing, possibly due to ugly debt service.

What I hope is that whatever happens will be done before the season is over. Whether that's Frank solidifying control or some alternative, it's in the club's best interest not to hit next offseason with uncertainty. Because if you can't extend Kemp this winter, next year might be the last chance. And you'll have those Kershaw and Billingsley folks to deal with, too.

Bottom line today: A minor win for Frank, and a potentially significant win for the franchise. May 24: save the date.

 

[ooiron manoo]

I have to chime in.

That is the best we can do for Pierre. Some of you guys are clearly overvaluing what he brings to the table. I suggest reading the Dodger Thoughts blog aboutJP. "Playing time he deserves"

. Dude was certified bumstatus before this year, no one was saying they want JP on the squad, especially when Manny was dilly-dallying last off season. Ya'll were shook as hellthat JP was going to be our starting LF'er. Now that he had a hot stretch, he gets the playing time he deserves. Crying about the 4thOF'er....

We were going to eat salary regardless because the MLB doesn't operate on sensationalism....not anymore.

Your time is NOW, and if you dont take advantage, it might pass you by.

how is this NOT the truth?

i can go down the list of pro sports teams that have had a shot to win with a mix of very good players but held on them to long with out making the right moves or sitting on making THAT key move that would push them over the top and never did. and the time passed them up


Yes, in a way you are right. However, we are too young still. We weren't expected to reach the NLCS in 2008 and we were expected to bethere in 2009. To say the time is now is absurd. One needs to only look at the team that bounced us the past two years, the Phillies took awhile to gel,especially their core. It wasn't a two year thing. The thing is that this young core that we have has exceeded expectations and some have yet to taptheir potential: Kershaw, Billingsley, Loney and even Broxton.

Kershaw will be #1 IMO, with Bills to follow, then you have Kuroda as well. I'm crossing my fingers for a power bullpen guy, and a starting pitcher. (Wang)


"Power bullpen guy" that's a head scratcher. Our bullpen is set, and we already have power arms.

They need to address the back end of the rotation (Bedard). They need to address Second Base, and get some help for the bench.

 

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

and im sorry but if you call your self a elite sports team in ALL major pro sports getting beat 2 years in a row in the 2nd round is not good enough. maybe for a team that has never done anything but not the dodgers

ZING!

 

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by bright nikes

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

and im sorry but if you call your self a elite sports team in ALL major pro sports getting beat 2 years in a row in the 2nd round is not good enough. maybe for a team that has never done anything but not the dodgers

ZING!

Then I suppose we're not an elite franchise.

The Diamondbacks are more elite than us. At least they've won a championship this decade. Same with the Marlins, way more elite than us.

How can the Red Sox call themselves an elite team, they haven't won a WS in years. And the Yankees, finally were able to win another one, are they eliteagain now?

The point I'm trying to make is that this isn't college sports. Some magical prestige rating is not how you get players to build a winning franchise.In pro sports, building a winning team is a process. Considering what Fox did to the franchise, it was bound to be a long process. Unless you can come up withsome magic formula to create a championship, then just sit back and enjoy the progression of the Bison and the Minotaur.

Ya'll sounding like Notre Dame fans now, Yankee fans last year, and Laker fans before the Pau trade. Yet regardless of all that, we're good! We werelucky enough to get eliminated in the 2nd round (which happens to be the league championship series) by a team that has essentially has the same ingredients aswe do, just 3-4 years older

 

[eyegiantjackpot]

I have to chime in.

That is the best we can do for Pierre. Some of you guys are clearly overvaluing what he brings to the table. I suggest reading the Dodger Thoughts blog about JP. "Playing time he deserves"

. Dude was certified bum status before this year, no one was saying they want JP on the squad, especially when Manny was dilly-dallying last off season. Ya'll were shook as hell that JP was going to be our starting LF'er. Now that he had a hot stretch, he gets the playing time he deserves. Crying about the 4th OF'er....

We were going to eat salary regardless because the MLB doesn't operate on sensationalism....not anymore.
Im not mad at JP leaving. I understand that we dont need him currently. we have an outfield with three great hitters, and 3 good to great arms.

my problem is how much money came off the books this year, and how we have nothing to show for it in such a small market. True, the kids are due a paycheck. But the shedding of payroll to player pickup ratio is non-existant thru the winter meetings.

we offered no arb.
our most consistant veteran pitcher signed a fat contract for a somewhat decent team. what if we offered him a decent salary and he took it because he lovesLA? and if he didnt, boom, some draft picks.
nothing to padilla, or garland, two pitchers i feel if had the chance to get into a rhythm with the dodgers, would be successful 3 4 or 5 starters in therotation. yet still no word on any of that.
instead i hear there is "talk" of weaver coming back, and we signed a couple of AA and AAA pitchers for the tryout in spring.. what is this, collegeball? are they gonna start having walk ons soon? this is dodger baseball man. Historic LA franchise, getting treated like a highschool basketball team.

while the phillies have the choice between Lee and Halliday, we have charlie haeger and jeff weaver. *$@ is that bout? that team decided to not go forLEE?!?! talk about resources. Thats how a team is run.

shedding payroll for the team for the most attendance in the league, who have to pay 15 dollar parking, and fork out 13 bucks for beers. Nothing is makingsense. At all. Juan Pierre is making 5 mill a year FROM US for the next two years. Making more then half the people on our CURRENT squad.
JUST TO SAVE 3 Mill?

How much we still paying Jones? probably more then a 1/3 on the squad.

I have always been Team fan over player fan, so when your team has this many blunders, makes you wonder..

it mostly just bums me out.

edit:
[h2]Gload signed with the phillies.. who is he you might ask?[/h2]Gload batted .318 as a pinch hitter, with a major-league leading 21hits. The left-handed hitter was a 13th-round selection of the Marlins in the 1997 amateur draft.

this is what i am talking out.. they are STILL loading up. we were 2nd place in the NL, TWO YEARS IN A ROW.

 

[p mac one]

That's what happens when the owner is broke, and when the broke owner has a crazy !%@%+ trying to take half his money.