OFFICIAL 2009 DODGERS OFFSEASON THREAD: (95-57) NL West Champs --- NLCS Chumps

[Los Angeles]

Alright, I'm off the road - its time to *+%*%*@ think about this real quick.

The Phillies FRESH off a world series appearance, although getting spanked, trade their ACE to acquire Halladay.

This is what I'm saying that Dodger fans should not settle for MEDIOCRITY.

The Phillies understand that their team isn't getting younger and went to work.

Depending on Roy's extension the Dodgers ARE not coming close to defeating this team.

Fans could be content with winning the division but that %+*% don't mean a damn thing to me.

I AM HEATED

I hope we hear the Dodgers at least made a last second push for a deal here. Wait, probably not

 

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by bright nikes

Yeah it worked out fine, but we can only be NL West Champs for so many years - if we ain't making it to the big show then we're chumps.

I'm not asking to make ******ed moves, but show the fans that you're gonna be aggressive enough to go after players or keep players. I find it hard to believe that this team is broke (if thats gonna be the excuse of not going after players).

Just like the Wolf situation, Ned says he has no regrets on not offering Wolf arbitration - we all knew he'd be a hot commodity come the meetings.

I'd like to see how all the FA starting pitchers plays out.

It's just becoming frustrating, we ain't getting younger here.

Teams like the RedSox, Yankees, Angels, Phillies are all getting better and the Dodgers seem like they're just tryna pickup the leftovers.

Roy Halladay Rumors: Monday
By Tim Dierkes [December 14 at 1:49pm CST]

CSN's Jim Salisbury reports today that the Phillies are "actively talking" about a contract extension with Roy Halladay's agent, according to two baseball sources. One of those sources told Salisbury Doc is likely to take a physical with the Phillies this week. The Philadelphia Inquirer's Andy Martino adds that Halladay and his agent have checked into a Philadelphia-area hotel.

What's more, Salisbury writes of "indications that pitcher Cliff Lee could be traded." SI's Jon Heyman wrote today that Lee would take no discount to sign an extension.

I read that rumor of Lee possibly being traded to the Dodgers in some 3 team trade.


You find it hard to believe the team is broke?

Frank McCourt himself is the one who came out and said he had like 130K in his bank account.

As for the Wolf situation, I have absolutely no words for that. Not offering him arbitration is essentially saying that paying approx $2.5 Mil for two draftpicks is out of the budget. There is no other explanation really.

The thing about this is that it is frustrating, and it will continue to be until the ownership situation is resolved. The reality of the situation is that ourOwner(s?) are going through a divorce and adding $16 Million in salary for one year while giving up prospects at the same time just isn't a great decisionany way you look at it.

Look at it this way, pretend you're a Clippers fan or a Raiders fan for a year. You have some pretty talented players that are fun to watch, but theownership problems are so egregiously bad that you kind of just tell yourself to follow from the side and not waste your money on tickets, jerseys and stufflike that until an owner can come in and restore the franchise. And the best news about pretending that, is that odds are that at some point Frank will beforced to sell the team. Our young guys, who are what make the team good, are still all under control for a couple more seasons at the least. I've saidthis before, but the Dodgers should remain fairly competitive as long as the ownership situation is resolved within 18 months or so.

It's not as if we didn't all see Frank as at least a halfway decent owner just a few months ago. Now he's got this crazy *+@%# tryna take halfafter she ++++* the security. Seeing as how the Dodgers are worth much more than half of Frank and Jamie's net worth, Frank might as well drive himself tobankruptcy court if he spends a whole bunch of money on players and then Jamie ends up getting rights and the teams sale is forced (and let's not forgetwhat state this is). Imagine trying to sell a team with a $140 Million payroll in this economy (with no access to TV revenue for 4 seasons).

 

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by bright nikes

Alright, I'm off the road - its time to *+%*%*@ think about this real quick.

The Phillies FRESH off a world series appearance, although getting spanked, trade their ACE to acquire Halladay.

This is what I'm saying that Dodger fans should not settle for MEDIOCRITY.

The Phillies understand that their team isn't getting younger and went to work.

Depending on Roy's extension the Dodgers ARE not coming close to defeating this team.

Fans could be content with winning the division but that %+*% don't mean a damn thing to me.

I AM HEATED

I hope we hear the Dodgers at least made a last second push for a deal here. Wait, probably not

I understand the frustration, but it's beyond unrealistic to expect and owner going through a divorce to spend like he's GeorgeSteinbrenner. Hell, it's wishful thinking to expect him to spend any $ at all.

The Phillies really aren't getting younger, the Dodgers young guys are all still 27 and younger, the notion that some imaginary window is closing isn'taccurate.

And for all the things that you could call the Dodgers right now, the product that has been on the field is anything but MEDIOCRE.

It's

when BN goes off on rants though lol. Son sounds likeSteinbrenner in Seinfeld

 

[bigmike23]

Look at it this way, pretend you're a Clippers fan or a Raiders fan for a year
i think most of us would have killed ourselves by now so lets not do that

 

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

And for all the things that you could call the Dodgers right now, the product that has been on the field is anything but MEDIOCRE.

Bro, you can be content with how the Dodgers play on the field, but when a franchise such as this has been in a drought for over 20 years ... thenin my opinion that's mediocre.

It's

when BN goes off on rants though lol. Son sounds like Steinbrenner in Seinfeld

I'm not a Seinfeld fan.

But hate on my rants all you want, I ain't gonna sugarcoat $*+*.

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

i think most of us would have killed ourselves by now so lets not do that

 

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Look at it this way, pretend you're a Clippers fan or a Raiders fan for a year

i think most of us would have killed ourselves by now so lets not do that
I mean considering the current state of UCLA basketball and the Cowboys, I'm surprised you ain't commit it already

At least you still got Neuheisel callin Time Outs

 

[Los Angeles]

 

[bigmike23]

It's not as if we didn't all see Frank as at least a halfway decent owner just a few months ago
i can tell you i never did. dude has been a bum since day one

 

[p mac one]

Obviously if you look at a 20 year period for a franchise like the Dodgers and see no World Series titles there is going to be some disappointment.

Mediocrity though? I think you're misusing the word.

The Dodgers have made it to the NLCS the past two seasons.

It really does no good to just needlessly $+*+! about stuff that we all know will eventually be resolved. Looking at the talent we have on the ML roster, andin the minors, the future for the Dodgers is far from bleak.

Oh, I'm not sure why you always act all uppity about %%%% like MLB owes us a championship or something.
*looks at BN's sig and avy*
Okay, I think I get it.

 

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

It's not as if we didn't all see Frank as at least a halfway decent owner just a few months ago

i can tell you i never did. dude has been a bum since day one
Then what would you call the ownership that sold the team to the McCourts?

 

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

Obviously if you look at a 20 year period for a franchise like the Dodgers and see no World Series titles there is going to be some disappointment.

Mediocrity though? I think you're misusing the word.

The Dodgers have made it to the NLCS the past two seasons.

I mean what is the point of building a successful franchise? People look at any franchise and see how many championships they won and period oftime its been since they've won.

You can hang your hat on these NLCS appearances, but point blank we've been unmatched each year we've faced the Phillies.

It really does no good to just needlessly $+*+! about stuff that we all know will eventually be resolved.
So, I should sit on my hands and hope each year we'll get better?

!%** that, if I wanna vent ... I'll vent.

Oh, I'm not sure why you always act all uppity about %%%% like MLB owes us a championship or something.
This is Los Angeles sports we're talking about, expectations are set so much higher.

*looks at BN's sig and avy*
Okay, I think I get it.
womp womp.

 

[in yo nostril]

low blow with the raiders comments dbags. al davis is a moron but at least i dont have to worry about him being cheap like mccourt. and pmac, how can you sayit worked out well last year after no activity at the winter meetings? getting $%$$ on by the phillies again is not an improvement. i guess after 20 years ofmediocrity, just making the playoffs is acceptable now.

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

It's not as if we didn't all see Frank as at least a halfway decent owner just a few months ago

i can tell you i never did. dude has been a bum since day one

Then what would you call the ownership that sold the team to the McCourts?





a bad one

that doesn't mean McCourt ant one either

i was on the bandwagon with calling dude McCBankrupt when he got the team.

and pmac, how can you say it worked out well last year after no activity at the winter meetings? getting $%$$ on by the phillies again is not an improvement.
THIS

 

[cincoseisdos]

I'm frustrated. But i'm not shocked. I'm not sure why any of you are. After all the McC bashing, this is all expected so why is anyone actingsurprised?

We've got to ride out this wave.

 

[mr jordan04]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Look at it this way, pretend you're a Clippers fan or a Raiders fan for a year

i think most of us would have killed ourselves by now so lets not do that

i havent killed myself yet

eventhough the phillies are getting halladay, theyre trading him for their other ace. if they would have kept lee AND got hallday, then i would jump off myroof. hallday is a bit better then lee, but theyre both aces, so its somewhat of an even tradeoff (with a slight edge to hallday). lets now see how many yearsthey sign him for

but hallday has had arm troubles in the past years that keep em out for a couple weeks at a time **begins praying**

 

[in yo nostril]

Originally Posted by CincoSeisDos

I'm frustrated. But i'm not shocked. I'm not sure why any of you are. After all the McC bashing, this is all expected so why is anyone acting surprised?

We've got to ride out this wave.

no one is surprised, just frustrated. the team looks legitimate for the first time since the 80s and yet we know we cant get past these couple of teams at thetop.

 

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by bright nikes

I mean what is the point of building a successful franchise? People look at any franchise and see how many championships they won and period of time its been since they've won.

You're missing the whole concept of how this league works

The Dodgers as an organization were destroyed by News Corp.

Dan Evans is really the one to credit with turning the organization around. Evans was hired in 2001, and one of his first hires was Logan White. Here's alittle from White's bio from a couple of years ago.

Prior to this season, White served as the Director of Amateur Scouting for the Dodgers for five seasons. In that role, he headed up the draft selections of seven players who appeared in the Major Leagues for the Dodgers last season - Chad Billingsley, Jonathan Broxton, Russell Martin, James Loney, Matt Kemp, Eric Stults and Delwyn Young. Along with his staff of amateur scouts, White's history of success in the draft, helped lead to the Dodgers being named Baseball America's 2006 Organization of the Year.

White has had unparalleled success in his first five drafts for the Dodgers, as his June 2004 First-Year Player draft was rated by Baseball America as the best draft in the National League and second best in baseball. His 2003 draft was tabbed as the best in the Major Leagues by the publication and his 2002 Draft was rated as the fourth-best draft in baseball. The Dodgers were the only team to have their draft rated in the top five in each of those three seasons.

In the club's most recent draft, the club's top selection, Clayton Kershaw, had one of the best professional debuts of any pitcher in baseball, going 2-0 with a 1.95 ERA in the Gulf Coast League. White also utilized the club's two compensatory first-round picks to select highly-regarded infielder Preston Mattingly and pitcher Brian Morris.

In 2005, White's 10th-round selection Trayvon Robinson was rated by Baseball America as the second-fastest runner by season's end. First baseman Cory Dunlap, the Dodgers' third-round selection in the June 2004 First-Year Player Draft, was rated by Baseball America as having the top season by a junior college player from the draft after his All-Star season playing for Rookie-level Ogden in the Pioneer League. Additionally, third baseman Blake DeWitt, the Dodgers' second first-round selection and 28th overall pick of the 2004 draft, was rated by the magazine as having the fourth-best season by a high school draft pick.

The Dodgers' first selection in 2003 and 24th overall choice that year, Billingsley, was rated the third closest to the Majors of all high school players drafted. The club's 2002 first selection and 19th overall pick, Loney, was rated as the second-best high school player taken, the best pure hitter and the second-closest high school player to reaching the Major Leagues.

So the Dodgers had some horrible ownership, but were drafting very well, and all sorts of people made all sorts of predictions about how good thatfarm system was.

Looking back on it, it was sickening. I wish I could find the Baseball America "Jacksonville 5" article that compared those guys to Jeter, Posada,Williams, Rivera and Pettite.

Then we had a huge problem after McCourt bought the team. DePo was essentially waiting for the prospects to show up in town, and that season with 1200+ gameson the DL came then that weird situation where DePo fired Tracy, then was fired himself only a couple of weeks later.

That's when we got the Giants assistant GM. What an awful idea that was. Not only are they the Giants

but Brian Sabean is notorious for being an awful GM. It's really a sad storywhen Sabean trades the no.3 pitching prospect in the organization for Ryan Garko, and then non-tenders Garko at the end of the year and I'm let sittingback like "Damn, that's something Ned would do"

Anyways, so Colletti came in and so did Grady Little. They clearly had no clue at all what they were doing. Ned had and for some reason still has this foolishbelief that a young player can only have a job if the worthless veteran in front of them gets hurt. Colletti and Little jerked around Loney, LaRoche, Kemp andEthier. The only one to get the job full-time was Martin, and we traded his very useful backup (well, he was useful then, not so much now) for Mark Hendricksonand Toby Hall.

... Mark Hendrickson and Toby Hall

So for those years when Luis Gonzalez started over Ethier, and when Nomar started while Loney hit .380 in AAA. Don't even let me bring up that contract Nedgave to Juan Pierre.

So now the players have finally been given a shot.

The Red Sox gave us Manny, and Ned was given a second life.

Those guys that we first drafted when were hired Logan White are just now completing their second and third seasons in the majors.

The Dodgers needed to rebuild, and despite Ned Colletti they have done it.

You can't expect a team to just say "We're going to sign whoever we want, and win the WS" This isn't The Show on PS3. The playoffs andthe World Series are a crapshoot at best. They're the times when Vicente Padilla and Mark Loretta are the clutchest guys on the team. That's just howit happens. You take a game meant to be judged on 162 games and throw teams in a best of 7 series and literally anything can happen. The model for a successfulfranchise is to build through the draft, and make consistent appearances in the playoffs. When you get to the level of perennial playoff team, you can start tomake some more risks trading prospects to acquire that World Series. That time will come for the Dodgers in about 3 or 4 years.

Until then ... patience. (and a new owner)

 

[p mac one]

You guys can't judge every season on winning a WS title. Doing so would be living in a fantasy world.

and pmac, how can you say it worked out well last year after no activity at the winter meetings? getting $%$$ on by the phillies again is not an improvement.
because the moves that Colletti made after the winter meetings were very effective.

Wolf was a good signing, Hudson was a good signing, and Manny was a good signing.

I'm not saying I'm not disapointed we couldn't get past the Phillies this year, but ya'll are tryna make it seem like the Phillies are thePadres or something. They're a damn good team, and they have homegrown stars in their prime years. Howard, Utley and Rollins are all over age 30. If Kemp,Ethier, Loney, and Martin all make it to age 30 (Ethier is the oldest at 27, Martin is 26, Loney and Kemp are 25) without at least two WS appearances likethose guys then you guys would have a much better cause to complain as if our magical championship window has evaporated.

 

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

You guys can't judge every season on winning a WS title. Doing so would be living in a fantasy world.

Bro seriously, just stop.

It ain't no damn fantasy world - its an expectation.

When we go 2 decades without winning a title, what the hell do you expect?

"Oh don't worry Dodger fans, we'll get there 3-4 years ...."

I swear I've heard that since the Sax days and so on.

 

[p mac one]

Your expectations are not realistic.

The Dodgers organization was stripped clean by News Corp. We were taking guys like Jason Repko in the first round of drafts, and dropping $100 Mil on KevinBrown.

As soon as they smartened up and realized the correct way to build a team, and the GM signed enough overpriced crappy veterans until he realized the young guyswere actually good, the Dodgers have come on very strong.

We have put ourselves in a very competitive situation the past two seasons and ended up losing to a team that is almost a blueprint for how we are trying todevelop a young core together that just happens to be a few years older and in their prime seasons.

Having expectations are all fine and well, but the Dodgers are not the team that you seem to think they are. The fact that they play in Los Angeles does notmake them entitled to some sort of manifest destiny of the WS trophy.

Another thing to consider is that McCourt does not earn television revenue

To say something like

"Oh don't worry Dodger fans, we'll get there 3-4 years ...."
Is a clear illustration that you can't seem to comprehend what I keep trying to explain. Baseball is not the type of sport where you can makesome sort of wild free agent acquisition and immediately become a lock for a championship. If there was any glimmer of hope that baseball would be that type ofsport, then the team in New York with the Billion dollar stadium would have already figured out a way to win the title every season. The best way to build achampionshp team, and it can be cited time and time again, is to develop a strong pitching staff with some power arms, and to develop a core of solid regularposition players. Once you establish the core, you can add the "can't miss" prospects into the lineup, and use the lesser prospects to acquireveteran help for a WS at the trade deadline.

Highest slugging percentage by a Dodger outfielder, through age 24 season (minimum 1,000 plate appearances):
[table][tr][td]Dodger OF Through Age 24[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Player[/td] [td]Years[/td] [td]PA[/td] [td]SLG[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Raul Mondesi
[/td] [td]1993-1995[/td] [td]1125[/td] [td].504[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Duke Snider[/td] [td]1947-1951[/td] [td]2232[/td] [td].497[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Pete Reiser[/td] [td]1940-1942[/td] [td]1379[/td] [td].496[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Matt Kemp[/td] [td]2006-2009[/td] [td]1801[/td] [td].480[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Tommy Davis
[/td] [td]1959-1963[/td] [td]2191[/td] [td].467[/td] [/tr][/table]
Highest slugging percentage by a Dodger outfielder, through age 27 season (minimum 1,000 plate appearances):
[table][tr][td]Dodger OF Through Age 27[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Player[/td] [td]Years[/td] [td]PA[/td] [td]SLG[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Babe Herman[/td] [td]1926-1930[/td] [td]2898[/td] [td].567[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Duke Snider[/td] [td]1947-1954[/td] [td]4189[/td] [td].541[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Pedro Guerrero[/td] [td]1978-1983[/td] [td]1974[/td] [td].512[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Raul Mondesi[/td] [td]1993-1998[/td] [td]3085[/td] [td].508[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Frank Howard[/td] [td]1958-1964[/td] [td]2321[/td] [td].495[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Andre Ethier[/td] [td]2006-2009[/td] [td]2227[/td] [td].490[/td] [/tr][/table]
MEDIOCRE!?

 

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

Your expectations are not realistic.

I'm done bro, keep thinking that.

I'll say it again, a 20+ year drought on not bringing home a WS title and for fans to EXPECT this organization to do something about that is unrealistic?

The best way to build a championshp team, and it can be cited time and time again, is to develop a strong pitching staff with some power arms, and to develop a core of solid regular position players.

So you're telling me in the last 2 decades the Dodgers haven't done that?

 

[in yo nostril]

Originally Posted by P MAC ONE

Your expectations are not realistic.

The Dodgers organization was stripped clean by News Corp. We were taking guys like Jason Repko in the first round of drafts, and dropping $100 Mil on Kevin Brown.

As soon as they smartened up and realized the correct way to build a team, and the GM signed enough overpriced crappy veterans until he realized the young guys were actually good, the Dodgers have come on very strong.

We have put ourselves in a very competitive situation the past two seasons and ended up losing to a team that is almost a blueprint for how we are trying to develop a young core together that just happens to be a few years older and in their prime seasons.

Having expectations are all fine and well, but the Dodgers are not the team that you seem to think they are. The fact that they play in Los Angeles does not make them entitled to some sort of manifest destiny of the WS trophy.

Another thing to consider is that McCourt does not earn television revenue

To say something like

"Oh don't worry Dodger fans, we'll get there 3-4 years ...."

Is a clear illustration that you can't seem to comprehend what I keep trying to explain. Baseball is not the type of sport where you can make some sort of wild free agent acquisition and immediately become a lock for a championship. If there was any glimmer of hope that baseball would be that type of sport, then the team in New York with the Billion dollar stadium would have already figured out a way to win the title every season. The best way to build a championshp team, and it can be cited time and time again, is to develop a strong pitching staff with some power arms, and to develop a core of solid regular position players. Once you establish the core, you can add the "can't miss" prospects into the lineup, and use the lesser prospects to acquire veteran help for a WS at the trade deadline.

Highest slugging percentage by a Dodger outfielder, through age 24 season (minimum 1,000 plate appearances):
[table][tr][td]Dodger OF Through Age 24[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Player[/td] [td]Years[/td] [td]PA[/td] [td]SLG[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Raul Mondesi
[/td] [td]1993-1995[/td] [td]1125[/td] [td].504[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Duke Snider[/td] [td]1947-1951[/td] [td]2232[/td] [td].497[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Pete Reiser[/td] [td]1940-1942[/td] [td]1379[/td] [td].496[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Matt Kemp[/td] [td]2006-2009[/td] [td]1801[/td] [td].480[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Tommy Davis
[/td] [td]1959-1963[/td] [td]2191[/td] [td].467[/td] [/tr][/table]
Highest slugging percentage by a Dodger outfielder, through age 27 season (minimum 1,000 plate appearances):
[table][tr][td]Dodger OF Through Age 27[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Player[/td] [td]Years[/td] [td]PA[/td] [td]SLG[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Babe Herman[/td] [td]1926-1930[/td] [td]2898[/td] [td].567[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Duke Snider[/td] [td]1947-1954[/td] [td]4189[/td] [td].541[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Pedro Guerrero[/td] [td]1978-1983[/td] [td]1974[/td] [td].512[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Raul Mondesi[/td] [td]1993-1998[/td] [td]3085[/td] [td].508[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Frank Howard[/td] [td]1958-1964[/td] [td]2321[/td] [td].495[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Andre Ethier[/td] [td]2006-2009[/td] [td]2227[/td] [td].490[/td] [/tr][/table]
MEDIOCRE!?

awesome, now all we need are 3 more competent starting pitchers and we will be set

 

[cincoseisdos]

Originally Posted by bright nikes

The best way to build a championshp team, and it can be cited time and time again, is to develop a strong pitching staff with some power arms, and to develop a core of solid regular position players.

So you're telling me in the last 2 decades the Dodgers haven't done that?



Aside from this group, we certainly haven't. I'm trying to think hard to remember, but so far I can't.

 

[Los Angeles]

The Rocket Ismael
Astacio
Dreifort
my dude ramon

Were sick as hell bro.

 

[ooiron manoo]

I really see no point to the Halladay deal by the Phillies,

. Sorry, Idon't.

Trading an Ace for an Ace,

Cliff Lee was lights out for the Phillies last year, he won the World Series MVP. He had a miniscule ERA, he was almost perfect...untouchable. Is RoyHalladay really that much better?

The window is not closing.

If you call the last two seasons mediocrity, then

.

I don't need to post a bunch of stats to prove my point.

Ya'll really want to invest $85 million in John #+%*#%* Lackey, 'cause I didn't.

Colletti said it best "There are 30 teams in Major League Baseball, there aren't 30 Aces. I feel confident in our two potential Aces (Billingsley andKershaw)."

By the way, they are searching for a Second Baseman and maybe a couple of arms (Bedard, Wang). The Bullpen is pretty much set.

I would be happy with them pursuing Dan Uggla or Brandon Phillips. Also and incentive rich deal for either or both Bedard or Wang.

awesome, now all we need are 3 more competent starting pitchers and we will be set
We have three in Billingsley, Kershaw and Kuroda. Time to shore up the back end of the rotation (Bedard, Wang, McDonald, Elbert, Haegar).

BTW- I think Wolf would've accepted arbitration to stay with the Dodgers, and he would've got a nice raise that probably would have taken him over theannual salary that the Brewers gave him. On top of that, upon further review, I didn't feel confident in giving Wolf a 3 year deal with his injuryhistory. He had a career year last season, it would be foolish to expect a repeat performance.