T0INE
formerly toine2983
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Lebron James elbow's twitter is comedy.
Offical 2009-10 NBA Season Thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by mateen cleaves,
- Start date
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Playoffs are wild mango right now.
LA/Jazz - *yawn* LA will win in 4 or 5
Atl/Orl - Boring series (and I like both teams). Atl just isnt ready. Orl in 5
Phx/SA -
SA is just a boring team to watch. And Phx will still lose despite having the early lead. SA in 5.
Cle/Bos is the only intriguing matchup to me. I see Cle winning in 6. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see Bos win in 7.
LA/Jazz - *yawn* LA will win in 4 or 5
Atl/Orl - Boring series (and I like both teams). Atl just isnt ready. Orl in 5
Phx/SA -
Cle/Bos is the only intriguing matchup to me. I see Cle winning in 6. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see Bos win in 7.
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Danm near spit out my drink when Charles Barkley said Derrick Rose was better than Nash, or even just as ridiculous, the third best point guard in the league.
I swear for a point guard that doesn't play any defense and can't shoot anywhere outside of 15 feet he sure gets ALOT of love.
Also I still don't get how basketball fans can characterize a team with Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker as boring?
I swear for a point guard that doesn't play any defense and can't shoot anywhere outside of 15 feet he sure gets ALOT of love.
Also I still don't get how basketball fans can characterize a team with Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker as boring?
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For me, it's just the fact that SA has ZERO highlight reel type players (in terms of throwing one down for instance). They haven't for years. No flash. That's cool and all cuz obviously it has helped them earn some chips.
But I like to tune in to a game and see some excitement. Just about every team in the L has some player who can make you jump up and say OH $##!.
Every team except the Spurs.
I thought it would have been RJ this year. But he has sorely let me down.
Nash doesn't play a single lick of defense either, so not sure why we're bad mouthing Rose in here. Cuz he can't shoot from 15 feet. Ok. But since Nash didn't get "good" til he was 30, Ima say Rose has already done far more at this age and can still improve mightily.
Hawks.........anytime you're in a 15 possession game late in the 4th quarter, you gotta at least try to make a run don't ya? 15 consecutive 3 pointers and that's a tie game.
What the @#$% up with @#$% Stockton last night?
Dude was gettin stats wrong all damn night, kept confusin himself, it was dreadful to witness. It was like listening to Sager's suit or something.
Was it me, or did they take an awful long pause to focus in on AK47 last night on the bench, meanwhile the biggest jugs I ever seen sat in the background over his right shoulder. Coincidence?
Missed half the second quarter while that cameraman was sittin there starin at "AK"
Anyone able to catch a pic of that and post it on here? Please do so.
Excited for tonights game. Hope it's a good one.
Hawks.........anytime you're in a 15 possession game late in the 4th quarter, you gotta at least try to make a run don't ya? 15 consecutive 3 pointers and that's a tie game.
What the @#$% up with @#$% Stockton last night?
Was it me, or did they take an awful long pause to focus in on AK47 last night on the bench, meanwhile the biggest jugs I ever seen sat in the background over his right shoulder. Coincidence?
Excited for tonights game. Hope it's a good one.
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You're better than that CP. Nash was "good" when he was like 25.
He wasn't Rose good at 25, so the bottom line remains.
And I'm not saying it's a guarantee either that Rose betters Nash or his career, for one Rose won't have all the Canadians backing him in MVP votes, and for another, Nash is a highly skilled shooter, don't know if Rose will get that. Nor do we know if Rose will get 5-6 talented scorers around him to run fast breaks all day. We have to wait and see.
You think if you put Rose on those Suns teams from the middle of the decade they would produce the same amount of wins? Or the guys that were around Nash put up the same kind of numbers with a guy like Rose?
BUT, I know better than to pick a Nash fight with you CP.
*goes back to arguing with Pacquaio fans*
BUT, I know better than to pick a Nash fight with you CP.
*goes back to arguing with Pacquaio fans*
Naw, this ain't a Nash fight. Rose's vision will come as he plays more and more. But he can get to any spot on the court he wants, so he could create the same lanes/wide open looks for those other Suns as Steve can. Difference of course is, Rose can't hit from the range Steve can, so defenses could sag against him til he improves there. So they may not produce the same wins this past decade that Steve did, but I'm betting when Rose is done, he would have taken a team further then Nash has. (Less of course Nash goes and wins it all this year)
Yea, he has that "get anywhere on the court" asset that Nash sort of perfected in his game once he got to Phoenix now in Chicago. Just doesn't have any shooters to kick it out to once he's there. I do agree that he'll take a team further than Nash did but I only say that because I see them having a very big offseason this year along with the core they have now. And I hate the Bulls.
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What this Derrick Rose would do with guys Nash had in the prime of his career is irrelevant... Rose at 21 is as good or better than Steve Nash ever was before the age of 30...
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Two different types of point guards. I really wouldn't get into saying who is BETTER. They are so damn different.
One is a slashing, athletic based point guard that has greatly improved his mid-range game.
On the other hand you have one of the greatest shooters/passers in the history of the NBA. Yea he doesn't play D but neither does the majority of the NBA. Won't fault him too much because he at least plays hard and bring SO MUCH on the offensive end.
And the whole, "If you took A and replaced him with B, that team would win/lose more/less" is a faulty argument because it can't be proven. Each person will simply support the person they are arguing in favor of.
But I don't think Chuck saying D. Rose is top 3 PG is too much of an idiotic statement as you are making it out to be. I can see why someone would say he is better than Nash.
But I prefer to just say they are different.
One is a slashing, athletic based point guard that has greatly improved his mid-range game.
On the other hand you have one of the greatest shooters/passers in the history of the NBA. Yea he doesn't play D but neither does the majority of the NBA. Won't fault him too much because he at least plays hard and bring SO MUCH on the offensive end.
And the whole, "If you took A and replaced him with B, that team would win/lose more/less" is a faulty argument because it can't be proven. Each person will simply support the person they are arguing in favor of.
But I don't think Chuck saying D. Rose is top 3 PG is too much of an idiotic statement as you are making it out to be. I can see why someone would say he is better than Nash.
But I prefer to just say they are different.
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lebron getting another MRI lol.
he's having a mental breakdown or something.
he's having a mental breakdown or something.
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I was just speaking of people using that point in arguments period. Wasn't really directing it towards you. I just saw the, "If you put Rose on the Suns" and it triggered the thought. Just don't think that form of argument is ever reasonable.
big j 33
Supporter
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I feel like a great fan that this is the only thing I'm going to comment onOriginally Posted by CP1708
Was it me, or did they take an awful long pause to focus in on AK47 last night on the bench, meanwhile the biggest jugs I ever seen sat in the background over his right shoulder. Coincidence?Missed half the second quarter while that cameraman was sittin there starin at "AK"Anyone able to catch a pic of that and post it on here? Please do so.
My friends and I noticed the same thing, no way anyone wanted to look at AK-47 for that long, she was the only reason.
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This is precisely my point, Nash gets constantly lambasted for not playing defense, yet Derrick Rose enjoys the full strength of NT's collective %+!% sucking division despite in my eyes being almost as bad. What's his excuse, Nash is a 36 year old man with a bad hip and a bad back, what's Roses's excuse?
It's an insanity on every level to think Rose is as good as Nash, or even Rondo for that matter, everyone salivating over his athleticism, and i agree it's hard to ignore the very high ceiling it grants him, but he hasn't DONE anything to deserve that acclaim everyone so breathlessly bestows on him.
and to me despite his athleticism, the fact he can't shoot puts a pretty hard cap on his offensive ceiling and the fact of the matter is that point guards who can't shoot besides rare exceptions, have a recurring habit of never being on very good offensive teams. The point guard position is where shooting is by far the most important and teams that don't have tend to have below average offenses, at least Rondo makes up for it with defense value.
But I guess flashy dunks, and highlight finishes are more important than winning games.
It's an insanity on every level to think Rose is as good as Nash, or even Rondo for that matter, everyone salivating over his athleticism, and i agree it's hard to ignore the very high ceiling it grants him, but he hasn't DONE anything to deserve that acclaim everyone so breathlessly bestows on him.
and to me despite his athleticism, the fact he can't shoot puts a pretty hard cap on his offensive ceiling and the fact of the matter is that point guards who can't shoot besides rare exceptions, have a recurring habit of never being on very good offensive teams. The point guard position is where shooting is by far the most important and teams that don't have tend to have below average offenses, at least Rondo makes up for it with defense value.
But I guess flashy dunks, and highlight finishes are more important than winning games.
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Derrick Rose actually can shoot. His three point range is limited yes, but his mid range game has to be respected. To say he can't shoot is a statement someone would have made in October of 2008.
Check the stats my man: http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Derrick Rose
And compare that with Nash - http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Steve Nash
Besides 3PT%, Rose is very comparable to Nash. But I do know 3PT shooting plays a big part of it. I just don't think it is accurate to say Rose can't shoot.
Check the stats my man: http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Derrick Rose
And compare that with Nash - http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Steve Nash
Besides 3PT%, Rose is very comparable to Nash. But I do know 3PT shooting plays a big part of it. I just don't think it is accurate to say Rose can't shoot.
Funny how now I get to hear the winning games argument when all Nash has done is win a bunch of regular season games. Interesting how that works.
Point is Osh, Rose can obviously work and improve on his shot over time. I don't mean 10 years, I mean in the next couple summers/seasons, he could improve his range greatly. Will he? Does he have the drive? That I do not know. That's all up to him. But can he? Yes, he can.
And will his defense improve as he learns more and works harder at it? Yes it could. Will he work hard on that aspect? I don't know, again, up to him.
And IF he does that work, and combines that with his athletic ability, then what will you have? A God damn monster. And a guy that will FAR surpass where Nash has gone.
Nash improved MIGHTILY in his later years, agreed? Why are you so confused about Rose doing that very same thing with even more skills already at his disposal?
Point is Osh, Rose can obviously work and improve on his shot over time. I don't mean 10 years, I mean in the next couple summers/seasons, he could improve his range greatly. Will he? Does he have the drive? That I do not know. That's all up to him. But can he? Yes, he can.
And will his defense improve as he learns more and works harder at it? Yes it could. Will he work hard on that aspect? I don't know, again, up to him.
And IF he does that work, and combines that with his athletic ability, then what will you have? A God damn monster. And a guy that will FAR surpass where Nash has gone.
Nash improved MIGHTILY in his later years, agreed? Why are you so confused about Rose doing that very same thing with even more skills already at his disposal?
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He has improved his mid range shot GREATLY, makes me think he can add some range to it.
He's had a pretty damn good 2 years without having his strengths maximized.
He's had a pretty damn good 2 years without having his strengths maximized.
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Teams bait Rose into taking that shot, they beg him to and they thank him when he does, the long 2 jump shot is the least valuable shot in basketball. and because he can't shoot three's it's easy to confine him to that mid range game and keep him out of the point..
I've looked at this for awhile now, teams that have point guards that can't shoot 3's are rarely above average offensive teams. Throughout the history of the league, if your point guard can't shoot, your team's offense will probably blow chunks. The Celtics now that Rondo has took over have realized this fate. There are exception like Magic for instance but for the most part it holds true.
Also the odds of Rose improving his shooting in light of his relatively low FT% (a good indicator of future shooting ability) as well as his flat jump shot and awkward mechanics are a lot lower than people realize, and despite his supposedly prodigious slashing ability he hasn't proudced as many free throw attempts as his other contemporaries.
I've looked at this for awhile now, teams that have point guards that can't shoot 3's are rarely above average offensive teams. Throughout the history of the league, if your point guard can't shoot, your team's offense will probably blow chunks. The Celtics now that Rondo has took over have realized this fate. There are exception like Magic for instance but for the most part it holds true.
Also the odds of Rose improving his shooting in light of his relatively low FT% (a good indicator of future shooting ability) as well as his flat jump shot and awkward mechanics are a lot lower than people realize, and despite his supposedly prodigious slashing ability he hasn't proudced as many free throw attempts as his other contemporaries.
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Somehow, its always CP getting into arguments
Heeeey, I ain't arguing, discussing, that's all.
I love this thread, a ton less stans/crazies in here, the people that check in here regular are all solid imo. I rather mix it up with them then the riff raff runnin their mouths in game threads.
Osh, wasn't Bron a similar shooter back in the day? Elbow sideways, never upright, poor free throws, and he's improved enough, correct? No reason Rose couldn't make similar adjustments/strides if he puts in the work.
Osh, wasn't Bron a similar shooter back in the day? Elbow sideways, never upright, poor free throws, and he's improved enough, correct? No reason Rose couldn't make similar adjustments/strides if he puts in the work.
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Let's be honest the Nash Suns had prolly the worst luck of any contending team from Amar'e's knee injuries, to the suspensions to Joe Johnson's breaking his face. Can't really put that on Nash imo.Originally Posted by CP1708
Funny how now I get to hear the winning games argument when all Nash has done is win a bunch of regular season games. Interesting how that works.
Point is Osh, Rose can obviously work and improve on his shot over time. I don't mean 10 years, I mean in the next couple summers/seasons, he could improve his range greatly. Will he? Does he have the drive? That I do not know. That's all up to him. But can he? Yes, he can.
And will his defense improve as he learns more and works harder at it? Yes it could. Will he work hard on that aspect? I don't know, again, up to him.
And IF he does that work, and combines that with his athletic ability, then what will you have? A God damn monster. And a guy that will FAR surpass where Nash has gone.
Nash improved MIGHTILY in his later years, agreed? Why are you so confused about Rose doing that very same thing with even more skills already at his disposal?
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I basically give up trying to post in game threads because of yuku.
Rose being bad at defense is crazy when you consider his speed/athleticism. I never really see guys learn to become much better at pg defense over time. It's kind of evident early in the career whether a pg will be good defensively or not.
