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i hate all this where __ happens
caca.
caca.
Offical 2009-10 NBA Season Thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by mateen cleaves,
- Start date
BIG game by Nash last night.
Course, Tony was killin him right back, but nonetheless, Nash was huge last night.
What got into JRich too? All of a sudden he thinks he's good again.
He's been ballin lately.
It's so refreshing to hear Doug Collins do Grant Hill games. Like a breath of fresh air in the summer time......... @#$% coach K would say more negative things about Grant then that douche Collins does. Swear to God he spends his halftime on his knees in front of Grant giving an interview to his flap.
Interesting start to that Celtics/Cavs series. Wonder if there were any cold sweats last night where dudes remembered last year real clear. Boutta look like a shooting gallery in here.
Course, Tony was killin him right back, but nonetheless, Nash was huge last night.
What got into JRich too? All of a sudden he thinks he's good again.
It's so refreshing to hear Doug Collins do Grant Hill games. Like a breath of fresh air in the summer time......... @#$% coach K would say more negative things about Grant then that douche Collins does. Swear to God he spends his halftime on his knees in front of Grant giving an interview to his flap.
Interesting start to that Celtics/Cavs series. Wonder if there were any cold sweats last night where dudes remembered last year real clear. Boutta look like a shooting gallery in here.
That game just rubbed me the wrong way last night. The refs with their whistles in their mouth ready to blow it if someone touched a Cleveland player and then swallowing it when Cleveland had the ball (if you're reading this and get offended NobleKane IDGAF about you or your thread, I'm going to complain all I want to). The fans throwing @@@* on the court and actually booing the Cavs. That team made your goddamn city relevant and you boo them. I don't even care where he goes but get out of Cleveland LeBron and send that city back to the goddamn stone age.
/rant
/rant
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I was waiting for CP's Morning Update.
ASG to Orlando in 2012.
ASG to Orlando in 2012.
big j 33
Supporter
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Awesome, Orlando deserves the All-Star game.
The new arena is going to be great, definitely need to make it to a few games after it opens.
The new arena is going to be great, definitely need to make it to a few games after it opens.
im not you
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I'll definitely be in attendance in Orlando. Besides it'll be the last ASG ever anyway. Gonna be live.
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I think it was a 2012 joke.
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That would basically guarantee an EC Title. Nobody is hanging with CLE/ORL other than LA.
??
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Tyreke, Steph Curry, and Jeff Green added to the USA Basketball pool for 2010-2012.
Green has no shot of making the team, they better keep that chucker Reke away. I'd take Steph down at the end of the bench as our sharpshooter.
Green has no shot of making the team, they better keep that chucker Reke away. I'd take Steph down at the end of the bench as our sharpshooter.
Hollinger:
PHOENIX -- Let the debate begin.
It's been quite a postseason for point guards, and Monday night might have been the best moment yet. Rajon Rondo started things off with 19 assists in three quarters to lead Boston's surprise demolition of Cleveland, and Steve Nash followed up with a 33-point, 10-assist masterpiece as Phoenix knocked off San Antonio while Nash's Spurs counterpart Tony Parker (26 points off the bench) was no slouch, either.
Tuesday, it continues, as two more All-Stars -- Orlando's Jameer Nelson and Utah's Deron Williams -- get their turn with the conch. Both players were magnificent in the first round of the playoffs, with Nelson blowing up for 23.8 points per game in Orlando's four-game sweep of Charlotte and Williams averaging 24 ppg in Utah's six-game vanquishing of Denver.
All of which makes the debate over the game's top point guard more heated than ever. Chris Paul of New Orleans, the standard-bearer at the position the past three seasons, once again led point guards in player efficiency rating (PER) at 23.74 -- but he played only 45 games and was markedly less effective once he returned from knee and ankle injuries. At the very least, his health has thrown the question wide open again; at worst, he might not be capable of regaining the throne.
Fortunately, we aren't lacking for candidates to take over. In addition to the players above, up-and-comers such as Oklahoma City's Russell Westbrook, Chicago's Derrick Rose, Milwaukee's Brandon Jennings, Golden State's Stephen Curry, and (if you consider him a point guard) Sacramento's Tyreke Evans figure to muscle their way into the argument in coming seasons.
Nonetheless, one can't help noticing that most of the main contenders are still playing. Five of the eight point guards to post a PER better than 19 in either of the past two seasons are still active in the playoffs -- Nash, Williams, Rondo, Parker and Nelson. (The other three, for the curious, are Paul, Denver's Chauncey Billups and New Jersey's Devin Harris.)
http:///sports.espn.go.com/espn/gallery/enlargePhoto?id=5161633&story=5161172">http://sports.espn.go.com...161633&...idth=440,height=750,scrollbars=no,noresize'); return false;" href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/play...columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-100504#">[+] Enlarge
Mark J. Rebilas/US PresswireSlowed by injuries this season, TP is starting to heat up for the Spurs.
Let's start with Nelson and Parker because they were much better in 2008-09, when each could have put up a much stronger argument for the title of the league's best. Nonetheless, each might be hitting his stride at the right time.
Parker operated as San Antonio's sixth man in the first round after a thumb injury and bout with plantar fasciitis limited his usual burst in the regular season, but he once again confounded Phoenix's defense with his quickness off the dribble. So effective was Parker that he played 36 minutes, started the second half and might start at the point for the rest of the series. Still, it's a far cry from his performance of a year ago, when he was the Spurs' go-to offensive performer and averaged a career-high 22 ppg on 50.6 percent shooting, which is why he's fifth on the list of point guards still active in the playoffs.
Up next is Nelson, who has a similar problem to Parker -- great numbers last season but, thanks to injuries, middling results this season. He steadily improved in the second half of the season, shooting 50 percent from the field and 51.4 percent on 3-pointers in April. He has kept up that progress in the playoffs, where he ranks second behind LeBron James in postseason PER after riddling Charlotte for 95 points on just 62 shots -- while committing only five turnovers in four games. Nonetheless, Nelson can't compare with the top three on this list, not after a regular season in which he barely surpassed the league average in PER.
This is where the competition really heats up. Let's start with Rondo, the best defender of the bunch and one who's not so shabby offensively despite his poor outside shot. Although Rondo's 19-assist shredding of Cleveland on Monday was obviously a bit of an outlier, he's no stranger to impressive triple-crown stats: Rondo averaged 13.7 points, 9.8 assists and 4.3 boards in the regular season while arguably surpassing each of Boston's Big Three with his broad-based contributions.
He's been even better in the postseason -- for a third straight year. Remember, it was Rondo's dominant Game 6 that fueled Boston's title-clinching rout of the Lakers in the 2008 Finals. Last year, he nearly averaged a triple-double in 14 postseason games, finishing with a line of 16.9 points, 9.8 assists and 9.7 rebounds per game in 14 games and adding 2.5 steals a game.
This year, he has redoubled his efforts. In addition to last night's effort, Rondo scored 27 points and added 12 assists in Boston's Game 1 defeat in Cleveland, and he is averaging 16.3 points and 11.7 dimes in the playoffs. Factor in his impressive defense and you could make a case for Rondo as the league's top point guard.
http:///sports.espn.go.com/espn/gallery/enlargePhoto?id=5161622&story=5161172">http://sports.espn.go.com...161622&...idth=440,height=750,scrollbars=no,noresize'); return false;" href="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/play...columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-100504#">[+] Enlarge
Dave Miller/US PresswireRondo has stepped up his play for the C's in the playoffs yet again.
That case breaks down, though, when you compare his shooting ability with that of his two Western Conference counterparts -- that's why Nash and Williams averaged more than 20 points per 40 minutes this year while Rondo netted only 15.
Williams put together another rock-solid regular season with averages of 18.7 points and 10.5 assists and has the Jazz in the second round of the playoffs for the third time in four seasons. Following that up, he's been so good in the postseason that a consensus is building that he has supplanted Paul as the game's top point guard.
Williams certainly has a case versus Paul, simply because he's been on the court so much more this season and appears to have a brighter future, given his combination of health and size. Additionally, he's first in the "point guards not named Chris Paul" category in PER over the past three seasons.
But that takes us to the biggest oddity of the entire point guard debate: Williams versus Nash.
Williams barely outranks Nash in the PER category in the past three seasons, even though Nash spent two-thirds of a season mired in a half-court system that was destroying his stats.
In fact, if you compare Nash today with the Nash of five years ago, the similarities are remarkable: His points, assists, shooting percentages and turnovers are almost exactly the same. So is his PER, and, more importantly, so are the results -- the Suns again were the league's top team in offensive efficiency, this time by an even wider margin than usual, and they're once again 50-something-game winners pushing to make a deep playoff run.
Half a decade ago, that sort of performance earned Nash not one but two MVP awards. Somehow, the consensus has shifted to the point that Monday night on TNT, Charles Barkley left Nash off his list of the league's top three point guards.
This is crazy -- Nash has barely changed. We've moved on, looking for whatever was "next," but Nash has just kept on chugging out ridiculously efficient offensive seasons, and he's still doing it at age 36.
So if Paul supplanted Nash as the league's top point guard when CP3 put together his MVP runner-up season in 2007-08, and we're now looking to fill the title again as a result of Paul's injury-plagued season, shouldn't our top contender be the guy who previously held the title belt?
And if so, isn't there a strong argument to pull the lever for Nash? He led the "point guards not named Chris Paul" category in PER this season, and he would have done so last season if you included only the part of the season when Alvin Gentry coached the team.
Alas, I can't quite go there. I'd take Williams, and I'd take him for two reasons.
First, he's a much better defensive player. Nash takes an unreasonable amount of criticism for his defense, but he is vulnerable to dribble penetration by quick guards. Williams is a bit more stout on this front and is big enough to check wing players in switches.
Second, and more importantly, Williams is more durable. Remember, quantity can be just as important as quality. Although he has suffered some injuries, he has played in all but 24 games in his first five seasons, and his minutes don't need to be managed the way Nash's do. This is critical when it comes to the postseason, especially -- for instance, in the 2010 playoffs, Williams averages nearly seven minutes a game more than Nash. That difference is so large that Nash would have to outplay Williams by quite a bit on a per-minute basis to be the more valuable player overall.
I don't think Nash has done that. So although it's really close, I'll take Williams by a whisker.
So right now, my list of the top point guards in the league looks like this:
1. Williams
2. Nash
3. (Keeping it warm for Paul)
4. Rondo
5. Billups
Honorable mention: Rose, Westbrook, Parker, Nelson.
That might not be your list, and that's part of the fun. Nash, Williams and Rondo have renewed the debate over the league's top point guard, a matter that had been settled as long as Paul was healthy. And we might find ourselves changing our minds several times in the next two weeks as we watch those three light up the second round. We might even get the occasional urge to move Parker and Nelson higher up the list, as well.
This is a rarity, actually. Usually by now, the playoffs have been reduced to dominating big men and electric wing players -- rarely do we see elite teams feature a point guard as their primary weapon. This time, we have three teams with point guards as the primary weapon, plus another two teams with point guards playing major roles.
Regardless of your preference among these elite point guards, be sure to enjoy the show. It might be a while before you get an encore.
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should be a new NT rule that you must put a spoiller on that hollingers crap
On the radio last night they had those douches Stuart Scott, Jon Barry, and Wilbon, and they go on and on and on about the Spurs look like the best team in the playoffs (didn't the Magic sweep their series?) and yada yada yada, only for the Spurs to go out and get beat in game 1. I love when stuff like that happens.
Mike, come on man, we need that Good Will Hunting formula to tell us that D Will is playing the best at the PG right now. You couldn't possibly see that with your own eyes man.
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??
Why are you confused?
If JPZ's "ideal conference finals" occurred, I said that would basically guarantee the East taking it all...
You honestly think either the Jazz or Suns could take out either the Cavs or Magic in the NBA Finals?
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LeBron's elbow's Twitter is more entertaining to me than LeBron.
im not you
Banned
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I'm not saying he does...but the same could have been said about Tayshaun Prince too.
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I figured Allen would be the one to argue for Green.
I guess you're right, especially if all these 2010 free agents pull out this summer. We're gonna end up with a Rose/Granger/Gay/Jefferson/Perkins lineup.
I guess you're right, especially if all these 2010 free agents pull out this summer. We're gonna end up with a Rose/Granger/Gay/Jefferson/Perkins lineup.
billy hoyle
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yea but Tayshaun was the best defensive player on that team
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Tay was on due to defensive purposes. Its not like he got much burn during that time period anyway.
You could make a case that Redd didnt really contribute much.
You could make a case that Redd didnt really contribute much.
First it was simply great to hear Ric Bucher try to talk about the Lakers and the "feud" between Gasol and Kobe when Bucher has ZERO credibility talking anything Laker related,
but then......
I got to hear Bill Simmons ask if Rondo could be the best all around guard since Magic Johnson in 3 years. Only to follow that up by saying Rose would be better then Rondo.
All awesome.
ESPN sure knows how to pick em.
but then......
I got to hear Bill Simmons ask if Rondo could be the best all around guard since Magic Johnson in 3 years. Only to follow that up by saying Rose would be better then Rondo.
All awesome.
ESPN sure knows how to pick em.
