Offical 2009-10 NBA Season Thread

[N41D]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Memphis was never as talented as this Oklahoma City team is... This team is closer than those Memphis teams were, and they've got more assets at their disposal...

Judging by what some people said before, those previous teams were better than the current team. The type of depth, vet leadership and coaching Memphis had during those years shouldn't be overlooked so easily.

Those Memphis teams were Pau Gasol and not much else... KD is already better than Pau was and Russell Westbrook/Jeff Green are better than anybody on any of those Memphis playoff teams... Hell, the team Memphis rolled out there this year is probably more talented than their teams in the middle of the decade were...

Another thing Memphis has and always has had going against them is an ownership group with a piss poor reputation... Heisley sucks and everybody knows it... Guys are smart enough to avoid bad/unstable ownership situations... Even when Jerry West was running the show, Memphis couldn't ever get anybody to play there because it was still a bad situation that wasn't going anywhere fast... I don't think we know enough about OKC's ownership group yet to make that judgment, but Sam Presti has certainly done a damn good job and has made a name for himself as a guy that knows what he's doing...

At least they had Pau Gasol who many think he's a top 10 talent since being traded away.
Nobody thinks Pau Gasol is a Top 10 guy... And most people never have...

During that time, Memphis had about 10-11 guys deep on their roster whom they could package up to bring in another star player. They just had a hard time doing it mainly because of guys not wanting to play here.
Go back and look at the roster for that 50 win team... What assets do you honestly think they had that could have brought another star player to Memphis? Shane Battier and Mike Miller...? That doesn't get you a star. Posey wasn't exactly young and nobody wanted to deal with Bonzi... The rest of the roster was nothing but spares...

I don't know if it had more to do with that 10-man rotation Hubie Brown implemented, meaning star players wouldn't get theirs or if it was location
It was them never having enough to really pull anything off for a star. Nothing more, nothing less.

Back thing, Memphis had better coaching than OKC currently has and they did have an all-star who just needed another guy to help push that team to another level.
That's debatable... And like I said, KD is better than Pau was at that point and Green/Russ are far better than anything else Memphis had on roster.

I just don't see why a guy like Bosh would go to OKC. He could possibly win in other places as well, not just OKC. He could easily go to Chicago and have a better chance at reaching the Finals in the East than in the West with OKC. He could go to Miami do the same. Hell, maybe even NY if they put the right pieces around him.
I agree it's probably a stretch for a guy like Bosh in OKC... I just threw it out as a talking point... But Chicago is not closer to contending than Oklahoma City, especially if LeBron stays in Cleveland. Miami, I agree completely. They'll have first dibs at whoever they want. But they'll only get one of Bosh/Amare/Boozer. And New York is not close, even if they get two legitimate FA stars... The only thing they have going for them is the city. The roster sucks. They can't add anything through the draft this year. Meh...

 

As good as OKC is, there's a reason why only 5 teams have won the last 10 NBA championships.
And there's a reason only two teams from the West have done so in the last decade... But none of that has anything to do with the current landscape... The Lakers are really good right now. But everyone else in the West is very easily up for debate next year if OKC can land another legitimate star... 

The West is just too tough and Bosh would be smart to stay out East
I refuse to believe any legitimate NBA superstar has this type of mindset...

 

[i nasmatic i]

C'mon bhz, while I loved following/watching those old Grizzlies squads they weren't THAT good.

It was a solid ensemble of players that reached it's ceiling the first year they made the playoffs.

 

[bhzmafia14]

There are people that think Pau is a top 10 guy. I've seen it on here before, but don't have time to go back and look. Maybe because he's the Lakers 2nd best player.

Go back and look at the roster for that 50 win team... What assets doyou honestly think they had that could have brought another star playerto Memphis? Shane Battier and Mike Miller...? That doesn't get you astar. Posey wasn't exactly young and nobody wanted to deal withBonzi... The rest of the roster was nothing but spares...

I thought about that, but you really never know what those players could've got you. Battier alone got us the no.6 pick in the draft that turned out to be Rudy Gay. They had plenty of value back then and those were the guys that Memphis was planning on using to bring in Iverson before he went to the Nuggets or VC before he went to the Nets. Now, that I think about it I was surprised that those players had that type of value, but they could've got a deal done.

Another thing Memphis has and always has had going against them is anownership group with a piss poor reputation... Heisley sucks andeverybody knows it... Guys are smart enough to avoid bad/unstableownership situations... Even when Jerry West was running the show,Memphis couldn't ever get anybody to play there because it was still abad situation that wasn't going anywhere fast... I don't think we knowenough about OKC's ownership group yet to make that judgment, but SamPresti has certainly done a damn good job and has made a name forhimself as a guy that knows what he's doing...
I agree with that. Even though we had a good season, there were so many mistakes made during the off-season that could've been easy fixes if made by the right people.

I do think people give Presti too much credit. He was handed Durant, so that was a no brainer. Hell, he probably would've took Oden himself if he got the no.1 pick. But, taking Green over Noah wasn't really the best way to go. If they were looking to go the role player route, he could've got Brewer who I think will end up being better in the long run than Green. Then last year, they could've got their PG in the PG heavy draft whether it was Curry, Jennings, or whatever (preferably Curry). Its hard to argue if Curry / Brewer / Durant / Love / Kristic or Curry / Brewer / Durant / Ibaka / Lopez would be better than their current team, but those teams I listed wouldn't need any fixing necessarily.

In terms of actually MAKING moves, he hasn't impressed me. His most impressive decision was drafting Westbrook at 4. Even with that, he could've easily selected Love or Lopez. The Chandler trade would've been nice, but it fell apart for them.

I'm really interested to see how well he does this off-season with caproom along with other assets to land them a good interior player. I can't actually give him the title of being a great GM yet til after this offseason.

C'mon bhz, while I loved following/watching those old Grizzlies squads they weren't THAT good.

It was a solid ensemble of players that reached it's ceiling the first year they made the playoffs.
It mainly had to deal with coaching and the system Hubie/Fratello pounded into the players.  If you were to tell me that Jwill / Posey / Battier / Gasol / Wright would've won 50 games and been in the 6th seed, I would've laughed. It had to have been the coaching along with the veterans.

We had like Bonzi / Swift / Watson etc on the bench. Those were highly respected players back then though.

We saw how good they really were when they made the playoffs though. They needed another guy beside Pau and our front office couldn't get it done.

 

[bangdak]

This guy's at it again.






Highly respected players? They were solid role players at most.

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

There are people that think Pau is a top 10 guy. I've seen it on here before, but don't have time to go back and look. Maybe because he's the Lakers 2nd best player.

Those people are flat out wrong. Period.

But, taking Green over Noah wasn't really the best way to go. If they were looking to go the role player route, he could've got Brewer who I think will end up being better in the long run than Green.
Why not? Green is probably a better player. At best you can call it a draw, but nitpicking it because they haven't found a center yet seems a little ridiculous. They were devoid of talent after losing Rashard and dealing Ray and he took the best prospect available at that point and so far Green hasn't done anything to disappoint. And what evidence is there to suggest AT ALL that Corey Brewer will be better than Jeff Green? There's none.

In terms of actually MAKING moves, he hasn't impressed me. His most impressive decision was drafting Westbrook at 4. Even with that, he could've easily selected Love or Lopez. The Chandler trade would've been nice, but it fell apart for them.
Drafting Westbrook, which everyone thought was a reach at the time, has REALLY paid off... And the Chandler thing would've been great too, not his fault Chandler couldn't pass a physical... He saw a chance to steal a player for nothing and had it all but done.

I'm really interested to see how well he does this off-season with cap room along with other assets to land them a good interior player. I can't actually give him the title of being a great GM yet til after this offseason.
He's got some work to do this offseason, no question.. Two draft picks, a pretty damn good young coach, a load of cap room, tons of veteran bigs on the market and a team that looks like it's potentially in line for another huge jump next year... Selling guys on coming to Oklahoma City may not be easy, but he's got a very good product to sell and I see no reason to believe he's going to screw this up or do something he'll regret down the line.

 

[al3xis]

Corey Brewer...lol.

 

[i nasmatic i]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

C'mon bhz, while I loved following/watching those old Grizzlies squads they weren't THAT good.

It was a solid ensemble of players that reached it's ceiling the first year they made the playoffs.

It mainly had to deal with coaching and the system Hubie/Fratello pounded into the players.  If you were to tell me that Jwill / Posey / Battier / Gasol / Wright would've won 50 games and been in the 6th seed, I would've laughed. It had to have been the coaching along with the veterans.

We had like Bonzi / Swift / Watson etc on the bench. Those were highly respected players back then though.

We saw how good they really were when they made the playoffs though. They needed another guy beside Pau and our front office couldn't get it done.

Yeah, it was a fatally flawed core inherited and assembled by Jerry West. They were a solid regular team that beat teams with balance, but had no one that could take over in the playoffs. He never made that golden move like he did with the Lakers to elevate the team.

 

[bhzmafia14]

Originally Posted by BangDak

This guy's at it again.






Highly respected players? They were solid role players at most.

Highly respect meaning that guys didn't mind having them on their team. Having those guys with two all-stars could've done some major damage in the West back then. I didn't mean they were some of the top players in the league. Calm down.

Corey Brewer...lol.
I don't see why its funny. I know Green came from GTown,

but Brewer could've turned out just as good for them.

Did Presti maximize what he could've done in those drafts? No. But, did he do a good job at getting a solid group of core players together to build a team long-term? Yes. If they made a few different picks, could their team be better than what it is now? Probably.

 

[bigmike23]

Lmao!!!!!

This is funny

 

[datznasty]

at people still talking about location. If it were that simple, the league would just contract to the California teams, Texas teams, Florida teams, Charlotte, Atlanta, and maybe NY.

If anything, a player worth his salt would use "there's nothing to do," to get their !%+ in the gym more and work on their craft.

And KD/Bosh together to me just reminds me too much of when the Mavs bought in Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker.

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Highly respect meaning that guys didn't mind having them on their team. Having those guys with two all-stars could've done some major damage in the West back then. I didn't mean they were some of the top players in the league. Calm down.

You said they had the assets on the roster to trade for another legitimate star... They didn't. Can't trade a handful of good role players, none of whom besides Battier were young, and get a star. It was a team that maxed out its ability at 50 wins and a playoff sweep and didn't have the ability to add much of anything for a variety of reasons.

Corey Brewer...lol.
I don't see why its funny. I know Green came from GTown,

but Brewer could've turned out just as good for them.

Did Presti maximize what he could've done in those drafts? No. But, did he do a good job at getting a solid group of core players together to build a team long-term? Yes. If they made a few different picks, could their team be better than what it is now? Probably.

It's funny because Jeff Green, to this point, has been a better player and it's not really up for debate...

And who could Presti have taken that would have maxed out what they could do in those drafts? I'd love to see that answered with some kind of plan...

 

[al3xis]

Cause everyone says it was a mistake drafting 2 SF's, Brewer is a SF himself.

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by DatZNasty

And KD/Bosh together to me just reminds me too much of when the Mavs bought in Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker.

I guess I see that logic, but Bosh can actually play with his back to the basket and you can actually justify playing KD and Bosh on the floor together at the same time... Jamison and Walker were basically the same exact player and it made no sense whatsoever playing those two with Dirk at the same time... It was a terrible mix that wasn't ever gonna work...

With Green's skillset, I think they could play Bosh/Green/Durant together for stretches and do pretty well... Obviously that won't work all the time, but with the lack of many real centers throughout the league, they'd be OK...

 

[dlo13]

Is it November again?

 

[bigmike23]

So we don't give gm credit for picking players they should now? Wow

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

So we don't give gm credit for picking players they should now? Wow

  I think his point is they should have gone another route than Green (Brewer and Noah mentioned specifically) and even threw out Westbrook was good but he could've gone Love or Lopez...

 

[koolbarbone]

The very fact that Presti was able to get that team this far under the cap shows how shrewd of a GM he is.

 

[i nasmatic i]

My favorite Presti move is turning Kurt Thomas' corpse into three first round picks (two from Phoenix and one from San Antonio).

 

[datznasty]

Kevin Love? No thank you. Dude is little. I don't know if they list him at 7'0 or whatever, but in real life, he's shorter than Jeff Green. I was at that game, had great seats.

And that's an amazing stat, has to be a record or damn near close to it. Glenn Davis gets 18% of his shots blocked

 

[bangdak]

Play Kevin Love next to a real center like Dwight and Brook Lopez and i can guarentee that team would lead the league in rebounding.




He may be small, but he's a damn good rebounder for his size.

 

[bigmike23]

Now I wouldn't take love over russy. But i would try and trade green for love

 

[bhzmafia14]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

Cause everyone says it was a mistake drafting 2 SF's, Brewer is a SF himself.

Yea just like they got both Durant and Green. It was easier to move Brewer the two.

You said they had the assets on the roster to trade for anotherlegitimate star... They didn't. Can't trade a handful of good roleplayers, none of whom besides Battier were young, and get a star. Itwas a team that maxed out its ability at 50 wins and a playoff sweepand didn't have the ability to add much of anything for a variety ofreasons.
Trust me, we had the assets. We were looking to pair either Iverson or VC with Gasol, but our management was too scared due to their contracts. And it wasn't far fetched seeing that the Nets got VC for Zo, Eric Williams and future picks. Denver got AI from Andre Miller, Joe Smith and some 1st rounders. I don't remember exactly what we going to offer in either of those deals, but we had some expirings, picks and I'm sure it was Battier involved as well.

We had the chance to improve that team, but we didn't. That's why we maxed out on 50 wins and getting swept 3 yrs in a row.

And who could Presti have taken that would have maxed out what theycould do in those drafts? I'd love to see that answered with some kindof plan...
I've already told you who he could've taken. Give me Durant / Brewer or Noah in 2007. Give me Lopez in 2008. Give me Curry in 2009. Its not like there wasn't a big debate on who they should take during the 2008 draft anyway. As a matter of fact, give me Noah in 2007. Durant was more than likely gonna be a SF in the league anyway, so why not build on your frontline? In 2008, Westbrook was a good pick. I still give him that, but how about having your frontline set by getting Love or Lopez? Once that's done, you know your only piece to add is a PG in a PG heavy draft. If Green ends up being the odd man out anyway to bring in a big man (maybe in a sign and trade), then it all goes back to those drafts.

I'm not knocking who he drafted because he did a good job, but would we be sitting here talking about them needing to add a legitimate big this off-season if they would've made those moves? I don't think so. Not only would they probably been just as good as they are now, but they would've been set for years without having to make any moves to their starting five. Just saying.

 

[i nasmatic i]

 

[bigmike23]

Bhahahahahahah

 

[al3xis]

Corey Brewer couldn't dribble or shoot, how was he gona be a 2? He doesn't excel at doing either yet anyway.

Jeff Green is easier to move to the 4 than Brewer is or would be at the 2.