Offical 2009-10 NBA Season Thread

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

What?

Isn't that what you're saying?  Follow the numbers, don't look into any other factors right?   To dismiss the numbers is weak minded.  I certainly don't wanna do that.  So if I see a number, ie a high interception total, well then it MUST be a problem that is totally and completely on that individual right?  I'm just going by what you are saying here. 

See, I don't summarily dismiss anything.  Osh and I have gone about this dozens of times.  He actually won me over with that avg/obs/slg total opbs or something like that a while back.  But this : Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67). PRL (Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for point guards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards
is something I have a problem with.  What's with the /.67?  Why is it 11.0 for guards, 10.6 for centers etc etc?  That's made up stats right there.  Pick a number and plug it in type stuff.  I'm not going to just follow that cuz someone told me on THEIR website it's cool.   I haven't seen too many other networks or broadcasts or any interviews where someone mentions PER, or value added this or any of that.  Will it someday?  I guess, but to just go by it now, to me is just plain strange.  

And as I have asked 100 times, who is agreeing that Davis should be an all star above Monta Ellis?  The stat guys point. 
  

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

Just walk away. We'll all forget about this.

You agree with all this numbers stuff?  

Osh, who on the Lakers is a stat runner in the front office?  Cuz why haven't they fired D Fish yet? 

  (a guy that means more then numbers

 )
  

 Agree on what the incorrect idea that I believe stats are the only way to measure basketball?
Or the idea that I believe PER is the ultimate way to evaluate players? Also wrong.
Or how about the insinuation that I believe you don't need to watch games. wrong too.
Or the idea that I believe intangibles don't matter in basketball? even more wrong.

What are we agreeing on, if you do you are merely agreeing to be wrong with CP.


BTW Every team including the lakers use Synergy sports data for video analysis, it can pull of video of possessions based off of statistical inquiries. 

So then why are you backing Hollinger that Baron Davis should be an all star AHEAD of Monta Ellis based on Hollinger stats?  My original point.  That Hollinger was bashing a kid that plays balls out vs a guy that does not, which even he admitted in his article.  Why would you back NUMBERS on that, instead of who is actually the more deserving player?
  

I did not.

I didn't say anything about that.

 

[bangdak]

Man ive been trying so hard to ignore these stat arguments, but what the hell are you guys talking about.



Are you talking about now, or a few years ago? if current days, Monta, and Bdiddy for past, but damn i hate it when OKB be bringing up the weirdest stats to prove hes right

 

[kiddin like jason]

Isn't that what you're saying?  Follow the numbers, don't look into any other factors right?
Not even a little bit. What I said goes well beyond sports statistics.

But, for the sake of this thread, I'm talking about this:

But this : Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67). PRL(Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for pointguards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards
issomething I have a problem with.  What's with the /.67?  Why is it11.0 for guards, 10.6 for centers etc etc?  That's made up stats rightthere.  Pick a number and plug it in type stuff.  I'm not going to justfollow that cuz someone told me on THEIR website it's cool.   I haven'tseen too many other networks or broadcasts or any interviews wheresomeone mentions PER, or value added this or any of that.  Will itsomeday?  I guess, but to just go by it now, to me is just plainstrange. 
Youdon't understand it, so you dismiss it. Just admit that you can'tcomprehend it, rather than assuming it's nonsense. Whether it is or isn't actually beneficial doesn't reallymatter, because you just don't know one way or another.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

Isn't that what you're saying?  Follow the numbers, don't look into any other factors right?

Not even a little bit. What I said goes well beyond sports statistics.

But, for the sake of this thread, I'm talking about this:

But this : Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67). PRL (Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for point guards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards
is something I have a problem with.  What's with the /.67?  Why is it 11.0 for guards, 10.6 for centers etc etc?  That's made up stats right there.  Pick a number and plug it in type stuff.  I'm not going to just follow that cuz someone told me on THEIR website it's cool.   I haven't seen too many other networks or broadcasts or any interviews where someone mentions PER, or value added this or any of that.  Will it someday?  I guess, but to just go by it now, to me is just plain strange. 
You don't understand it, so you dismiss it. Just admit that you can't comprehend it, rather than assuming it's nonsense. Whether it is or isn't actually beneficial doesn't really matter, because you just don't know one way or another.

Comprehending the math or the problem is fine, I don't have a problem with that, what  I can't comprehend is the plug in numbers and go with it.  Which is what I was asking.  What's with the different numbers by position?  The /67, etc.  Why would I need to know that, to know that Lebron is really good, followed by Wade, and then Durant, Bosh, Duncan, etc etc?  While Per is LeBron, Wade, Duncan, Bosh, Paul and then Durant.  It's the same damn stats, with different numbers made up to switch them around.  Where is there value in that?  It's the same damn 5 players in a different order. 

 
So if i take out Kobe at shooting guard, sub in Sasha, and divide by 67 I'll lose X amount of points over the course of the season.  (give or take a digit I left out here or there)  And then that shows me how @#$%^& I would be with Sasha in my starting lineup?  Like i wouldn't already know? 

 

Hey, if the PER and Value added were a different group of players, and I saw huge movement or something, that would be one thing, but to me it's the same 5-6 guys, guys we could have already guessed and gotten pretty close couldn't we have?  So i don't see this huge value in that.  Maybe further on down the line player after playe there is movent, but forgive me for it, but that's just not important in telling me who is good and who isn't.  
  

 

[bhzmafia14]

Originally Posted by BangDak

Man ive been trying so hard to ignore these stat arguments, but what the hell are you guys talking about.



Are you talking about now, or a few years ago? if current days, Monta, and Bdiddy for past, but damn i hate it when OKB be bringing up the weirdest stats to prove hes right

I just got done studying for a Stats test. I come in here to get my mind off of it and see all these stupid *+@ formulas and numbers.

 

[im not you]

Tyreke Evans is a got damn man out there on the floor. This dude flat out can ball man.

 

[proshares]

This dude Chris Duhon

 

[al3xis]

The Knicks are simply a disgrace. I just cant explain it. They cant get out of their own way.


I'm guessing the scouts are taking a step back and embracing Monroe for what he is, not looking for something he's not.

Ed Davis....is not good.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The value of PER is it's ability to incorporate an entire box score of information PPG, APG, RPG, BPG, into one number adjusted tempo, so rather than remembering 5 stats you get that in one number and players that play on high tempo teams don't get inflated numbers.

The other advantage is it gives you a way to compare bench players to starters better, because it's on a per minute basis.


IMO It's bad at measuring defense, it underrates rebounders and shot blockers, and overrates guys who take a lot of shots.

 

[proshares]

I keep failing to realize how people can continually defend Nate, when he does some of the same stupid stuff and worse things than Duhon. *shrugs*

 

[CP1708]

Why would the Celts move Baby Davis for a backup PG when Garnett is hangin by a thread? 

  They figure Sheed is enough insurance?  I'm too weak minded to figure it out on my own, so people please help me. 

 

[eneyekayee]

Ed Davis....is not good.
Most disappointing player in America on the most disappointing team in America.  UCONN as well...

IMO It's bad at measuring defense
I agree 100%.  I actually like PER and always have for the most part...it's just all the other ridiculous stat "systems".  IMO, if you delve to deep into a lot of that BS, it just becomes counter productive, giving you meaningless info.  If you truly know the game, you can just watch it and realize what is what (like some have already said, it's right in front of you).  You don't need to rely on some of these ridiculous stats.

 

[bangdak]

Originally Posted by Proshares

I keep failing to realize how people can continually defend Nate, when he does some of the same stupid stuff and worse things than Duhon. *shrugs*

Stop it. i will murder chris duhon if i could.

 

[dlo13]

15-2.

 

[bigmike23]

when your team is dog %!+* TRASH

what is the point of a 7 man rotation? you suck anyways play the guys off the bench and pray someone catchs hot and you get a win out of them

i never under stood why D’Antoni does that dumb %!+*.

 

[CP1708]

Memphis losing 6 outta 7.  Luster wearin off a lil bit? 

 

[tsamshox]

Tyreke Evans is a grown %%$ man......

Wilson Chandler is WET. Dude's mid-range game is impressive. Still don't know how David Lee is not an all-star dude killed us the first half......

Nate Robinson is BUNS

. Everytime he had the ball I knew the Kings would get it back

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

The Knicks are simply a disgrace. I just cant explain it. They cant get out of their own way.


I'm guessing the scouts are taking a step back and embracing Monroe for what he is, not looking for something he's not.

Ed Davis....is not good.

I have fell in love with Greg and would hope Chicago could get him.

 

[al3xis]

tryin to squeeze out as many wins he can. it worked for a little but now its done.

playoff hopes are gone, just let the young guys go now.

 

[chester the cheetah]

The Dallas Mavericks are so %+$##@% horrible.

 

[bangdak]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

tryin to squeeze out as many wins he can. it worked for a little but now its done.

playoff hopes are gone, just let the young guys go now.

This team isnt even bad. its just utilized incorrectly.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

James Harden

Manu 2.0.

 

[dlo13]

These homer +@$ Portland announcers kill me.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by DLo13

These homer +@$ Portland announcers kill me.

I know right?, when they screamed all ball when he clearly slapped him on the wrist.