- Jul 3, 2012
- 12,744
- 2,371
Rightfully so...
NFL Discussion Thread - Hall of Fame Game: August 3rd
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by 651akathepaul,
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Rightfully so...
- Feb 12, 2005
- 58,804
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Three gosh damn times in my life I've witnessed the Vikings lose in the NFCCG. It hurts
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- Dec 14, 2004
- 60,034
- 50,948
Anyone else hear that SF is looking to make an offer to Victor Cruz?
jumpmanfromdabay
Banned
- Jan 25, 2008
- 25,730
- 2,900
If you can't stop him......sign him 
- May 30, 2009
- 4,747
- 34
NFL's best talent evaluators
Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome among the NFL's best judges of talent
Originally Published: April 2, 2013By Bill Polian | ESPN Insider
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Mitchell Layton/Getty Images
Ozzie Newsome is a big reason the Ravens are one of the NFL's best teams every year.
When discussing the qualities associated with the league's best talent evaluators, you might think it starts with an ability to identify potential in draft prospects. On the contrary, what separates the best from the rest is an ability to first understand your own franchise.
As I've written many times before, player value is relative and will vary from team to team. Teams prioritize certain positions over others depending on scheme. Some will prioritize pass-rushers, others will hold shutdown man-to-man cornerbacks in high regard. Some teams will seek an elite tight end, others will treat the position as a highly replaceable part.
Supply and demand may change the price tag on free agents, and raw ability may determine a prospect's overall draft stock, but it's the teams themselves that ultimately determine a player's value.
The names I've identified as the NFL's best talent evaluators may not surprise you. They all represent teams that have been perennial powers in recent years. And at the core of that success is a distinct stylistic blueprint -- the ability to first assess what you have on the roster -- that helps guide the continued building of rosters through the draft.
Here are the top six NFL talent evaluators in my eyes:
Ozzie Newsome, Baltimore Ravens
Ozzie understands exactly what their needs are at all times, and he understands how players fit in their system. As a result, he makes the appropriate calls on draft day … and after.
Take a look at Dannell Ellerbe. Ozzie signed the interior linebacker as an undrafted free agent in 2009. In his time with Baltimore, Ellerbe proved to be one of the league's best bargains. Last season he filled in extremely well when Ray Lewis was injured, and he just left the team for a $35 million contract with the Miami Dolphins. While it was a loss that stung the Ravens, Newsome has shown a track record of being able to find another player capable of taking his place.
Perhaps more notably, Joe Flacco, Ray Rice and Terrell Suggs are other prime examples of Newsome's evaluation ability. Suggs fits their system perfectly. In his draft year, the critics got carried away with his poor 40 times, but the Ravens did not, and now they're reaping the dividends. Newsome doesn't just identify talent, he knows the rate at which to value it.
Thomas Dimitroff, Atlanta Falcons
Like the rest of the GMs on this list, Thomas understands what the Falcons are looking for in a player and what it takes for that player to fit their system. Not only is he very cognizant of what a player can contribute on the whole, he's also very adept at identifying individual traits that might help certain players excel in particular roles. In a cap-conscious league, you need those specific-trait players to fill out your roster in the best way possible. Thomas has identified several for the Falcons, including Jacquizz Rodgers, Akeem Dent, Kroy Biermann and Harry Douglas -- all are relatively specialized players who make key contributions on this team.
It was a bold move to make the trade and go get Julio Jones in the 2011 draft, but Dimitroff had identified Jones as a perfect system fit, increasing the value of the player specific to an organization. Matt Ryan is a vertical downfield passer, and they needed another game breaker. Dimitroff had courage to go up and get him, and while a lot of people second-guessed the move at the time, it's clearly paid off.
Ted Thompson, Green Bay Packers
The Packers have a simple model: Build from within. Green Bay places an enormous emphasis on the draft (and signing undrafted free agents), and Thompson really does a great job identifying big-time playmakers: Clay Matthews, B.J. Raji, A.J. Hawk, Sam Shields and Randall Cobb are just a few examples. And, of course, he pulled the trigger to select Aaron Rodgers in the 2005 draft despite having Brett Favre under center.
I also like that Ted is impervious to the noise around him -- and that is true of all the guys on this list. Whether it's coming from the media, fans or even voices within an organization, there is no shortage of critics in this line of work. Ted presses the mute button on all of that and goes about his business, following his blueprint and accumulating wins. The Super Bowl ring is evidence that he's got the right plan in front of him. That they won a title with 14 players on the IR speaks to his ability to bring in depth players who can make an impact.
Jerry Reese, New York Giants
He goes out and finds players who fit what head coach Tom Coughlin wants, which points to one of his greatest strengths as a GM: Not only is Jerry a terrific judge of talent, he's also an excellent manager in the way he includes his staff and the coaches in the process. Throughout the organization, every scout is working from the same script and knows that their voice will be heard in the player-evaluation process.
Another defining characteristic for Jerry is that he's not afraid to take a chance on a player who he believes will fit their system. Mark Herzlich is a good example. Many teams were scared of his battle with cancer, but he's helped the Giants. And identifying Victor Cruz as a player to develop can't be overlooked -- remember, they kept him through an entire season where Cruz sat on IR. Reese and Coughlin will now unearth last year's first-rounder, RB David Wilson. While the Virginia Tech back had a rough start following a Week 1 fumble, he should be a strong asset for the Giants going forward after the team had to make financial decisions at the position this offseason.
Trent Baalke, San Francisco 49ers
One of the main reasons the 49ers are set up so well for future success is Baalke's ability to identify talent. One draft alone might have positioned them perfectly, namely 2011 (his first as GM), when they selected Aldon Smith in the first round and Colin Kaepernick in the second. There's your future. By identifying a player who appears capable of being a franchise quarterback in the second round, the 49ers have saved a lot of cap money they can deploy elsewhere until Kaepernick's first contract expires.
Baalke was the VP of player personnel in 2010 and built this team around Bill Parcells' concept of positioning power on both sides of the ball -- as evidenced by the selection of tackle Anthony Davis and guard Mike Iupati with their two first-round picks. And in Jim Harbaugh, he has the right coach to maximize that trait. It's created the perfect marriage, and it's already been a successful one. They're a perennial contender and it all starts with Baalke's ability to recognize elite talent.
Kevin Colbert, Pittsburgh Steelers
Colbert may be the least well-known name on this list, but he is very well-respected within the league. He understands the team's philosophy -- eschew free agency, sign its own players, emphasize the draft. Schematically, the Steelers stick with the power run game and vertical passing game, and of course the blitz-heavy 3-4 defense. Colbert drafts to fit that mold. He manages the draft board as well as anyone in the league, which is essential since the Steelers almost always draft low. But even so, Colbert's eye for talent keeps them in a position to still get the players they want -- the players who fit. It's almost a seamless operation.
You may not see many headlines on draft day, but the Steelers simply select players who can win games. Cameron Heyward on the D-line is a great example, as is guard David DeCastro, though he didn't play much as a rookie due to injury. And when you can identify big-time talent later in the draft -- like Antonio Brown -- it doesn't sting quite as much when a veteran like Mike Wallace
Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome among the NFL's best judges of talent
Originally Published: April 2, 2013By Bill Polian | ESPN Insider
0
0
13
Mitchell Layton/Getty Images
Ozzie Newsome is a big reason the Ravens are one of the NFL's best teams every year.
When discussing the qualities associated with the league's best talent evaluators, you might think it starts with an ability to identify potential in draft prospects. On the contrary, what separates the best from the rest is an ability to first understand your own franchise.
As I've written many times before, player value is relative and will vary from team to team. Teams prioritize certain positions over others depending on scheme. Some will prioritize pass-rushers, others will hold shutdown man-to-man cornerbacks in high regard. Some teams will seek an elite tight end, others will treat the position as a highly replaceable part.
Supply and demand may change the price tag on free agents, and raw ability may determine a prospect's overall draft stock, but it's the teams themselves that ultimately determine a player's value.
The names I've identified as the NFL's best talent evaluators may not surprise you. They all represent teams that have been perennial powers in recent years. And at the core of that success is a distinct stylistic blueprint -- the ability to first assess what you have on the roster -- that helps guide the continued building of rosters through the draft.
Here are the top six NFL talent evaluators in my eyes:
Ozzie Newsome, Baltimore Ravens
Ozzie understands exactly what their needs are at all times, and he understands how players fit in their system. As a result, he makes the appropriate calls on draft day … and after.
Take a look at Dannell Ellerbe. Ozzie signed the interior linebacker as an undrafted free agent in 2009. In his time with Baltimore, Ellerbe proved to be one of the league's best bargains. Last season he filled in extremely well when Ray Lewis was injured, and he just left the team for a $35 million contract with the Miami Dolphins. While it was a loss that stung the Ravens, Newsome has shown a track record of being able to find another player capable of taking his place.
Perhaps more notably, Joe Flacco, Ray Rice and Terrell Suggs are other prime examples of Newsome's evaluation ability. Suggs fits their system perfectly. In his draft year, the critics got carried away with his poor 40 times, but the Ravens did not, and now they're reaping the dividends. Newsome doesn't just identify talent, he knows the rate at which to value it.
Thomas Dimitroff, Atlanta Falcons
Like the rest of the GMs on this list, Thomas understands what the Falcons are looking for in a player and what it takes for that player to fit their system. Not only is he very cognizant of what a player can contribute on the whole, he's also very adept at identifying individual traits that might help certain players excel in particular roles. In a cap-conscious league, you need those specific-trait players to fill out your roster in the best way possible. Thomas has identified several for the Falcons, including Jacquizz Rodgers, Akeem Dent, Kroy Biermann and Harry Douglas -- all are relatively specialized players who make key contributions on this team.
It was a bold move to make the trade and go get Julio Jones in the 2011 draft, but Dimitroff had identified Jones as a perfect system fit, increasing the value of the player specific to an organization. Matt Ryan is a vertical downfield passer, and they needed another game breaker. Dimitroff had courage to go up and get him, and while a lot of people second-guessed the move at the time, it's clearly paid off.
Ted Thompson, Green Bay Packers
The Packers have a simple model: Build from within. Green Bay places an enormous emphasis on the draft (and signing undrafted free agents), and Thompson really does a great job identifying big-time playmakers: Clay Matthews, B.J. Raji, A.J. Hawk, Sam Shields and Randall Cobb are just a few examples. And, of course, he pulled the trigger to select Aaron Rodgers in the 2005 draft despite having Brett Favre under center.
I also like that Ted is impervious to the noise around him -- and that is true of all the guys on this list. Whether it's coming from the media, fans or even voices within an organization, there is no shortage of critics in this line of work. Ted presses the mute button on all of that and goes about his business, following his blueprint and accumulating wins. The Super Bowl ring is evidence that he's got the right plan in front of him. That they won a title with 14 players on the IR speaks to his ability to bring in depth players who can make an impact.
Jerry Reese, New York Giants
He goes out and finds players who fit what head coach Tom Coughlin wants, which points to one of his greatest strengths as a GM: Not only is Jerry a terrific judge of talent, he's also an excellent manager in the way he includes his staff and the coaches in the process. Throughout the organization, every scout is working from the same script and knows that their voice will be heard in the player-evaluation process.
Another defining characteristic for Jerry is that he's not afraid to take a chance on a player who he believes will fit their system. Mark Herzlich is a good example. Many teams were scared of his battle with cancer, but he's helped the Giants. And identifying Victor Cruz as a player to develop can't be overlooked -- remember, they kept him through an entire season where Cruz sat on IR. Reese and Coughlin will now unearth last year's first-rounder, RB David Wilson. While the Virginia Tech back had a rough start following a Week 1 fumble, he should be a strong asset for the Giants going forward after the team had to make financial decisions at the position this offseason.
Trent Baalke, San Francisco 49ers
One of the main reasons the 49ers are set up so well for future success is Baalke's ability to identify talent. One draft alone might have positioned them perfectly, namely 2011 (his first as GM), when they selected Aldon Smith in the first round and Colin Kaepernick in the second. There's your future. By identifying a player who appears capable of being a franchise quarterback in the second round, the 49ers have saved a lot of cap money they can deploy elsewhere until Kaepernick's first contract expires.
Baalke was the VP of player personnel in 2010 and built this team around Bill Parcells' concept of positioning power on both sides of the ball -- as evidenced by the selection of tackle Anthony Davis and guard Mike Iupati with their two first-round picks. And in Jim Harbaugh, he has the right coach to maximize that trait. It's created the perfect marriage, and it's already been a successful one. They're a perennial contender and it all starts with Baalke's ability to recognize elite talent.
Kevin Colbert, Pittsburgh Steelers
Colbert may be the least well-known name on this list, but he is very well-respected within the league. He understands the team's philosophy -- eschew free agency, sign its own players, emphasize the draft. Schematically, the Steelers stick with the power run game and vertical passing game, and of course the blitz-heavy 3-4 defense. Colbert drafts to fit that mold. He manages the draft board as well as anyone in the league, which is essential since the Steelers almost always draft low. But even so, Colbert's eye for talent keeps them in a position to still get the players they want -- the players who fit. It's almost a seamless operation.
You may not see many headlines on draft day, but the Steelers simply select players who can win games. Cameron Heyward on the D-line is a great example, as is guard David DeCastro, though he didn't play much as a rookie due to injury. And when you can identify big-time talent later in the draft -- like Antonio Brown -- it doesn't sting quite as much when a veteran like Mike Wallace
elpablo21
Supporter
- Feb 11, 2008
- 106,411
- 195,826
List is invalid without John Schneider
- Feb 17, 2007
- 21,784
- 2,957
Hopefully Reggie McKenzie joins that list in time. He's demonstrated so far that he knows how to rebuild a broken team.
pabstblueribbon
Banned
- Mar 5, 2013
- 1,137
- 172
But if you follow football you knew everyone on that list
Reese has long been underrated.
Everyone knows Ozzie and Ted are great at what they do.
And the Seattle GM Should be mentioned to they turn around of that team and being loaded with talent.
Reese has long been underrated.
Everyone knows Ozzie and Ted are great at what they do.
And the Seattle GM Should be mentioned to they turn around of that team and being loaded with talent.
- Apr 27, 2009
- 19,563
- 6,839
Should have won executive of the year
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- Oct 13, 2000
- 22,885
- 2,317
Colbert is great except for the 2nd round
And all of 2008
And all of 2008
- Jul 3, 2012
- 12,744
- 2,371
Thought this was interesting but Giants c'mon what are y'all doing
With the Giants and receiver Victor Cruz continuing to stare each other down, months after the two sides reportedly were close to a new contract, Gary Myers of the New York Daily News offers a team-friendly admonition to Cruz.
If you don’t take the money that’s on the table, you could lose it all by tearing an ACL during the 2013 season.
But Cruz doesn’t need to be reminded of the reality that signing the one-year restricted free agent tender and playing for $2.89 million in 2013 keeps the injury risk squarely on his shoulders for one more year. He has borne that risk for far less money during the last two season.
There’s risk for the Giants, too. By not getting Cruz signed over the long term now, they could find themselves having to choose between Cruz and receiver Hakeem Nicks in 2014 — with only one franchise tag available.
And with Cruz arguably being the most popular player currently on the roster, a failure to fairly reward him for two seasons of consistently strong production could cause problems, both outside and inside the locker room.
Besides, Cruz has a way to minimize his risk. He can hold out until Week 10, sign the restricted free agency tender then, make $1.19 million for the balance of the year (which is much more than he has made in any one season during his career), and then become an unrestricted free agent in 2014 — or get more than $10 million under the franchise tag.
Cruz didn’t make it this far in his career by running from risk. So to balance out Myers’ advice that Smith should take the money and the security that comes with it, we say this: Hold out until you get what you deserve, even if that means playing only seven-regular season games for $1.19 million.
With the Giants and receiver Victor Cruz continuing to stare each other down, months after the two sides reportedly were close to a new contract, Gary Myers of the New York Daily News offers a team-friendly admonition to Cruz.
If you don’t take the money that’s on the table, you could lose it all by tearing an ACL during the 2013 season.
But Cruz doesn’t need to be reminded of the reality that signing the one-year restricted free agent tender and playing for $2.89 million in 2013 keeps the injury risk squarely on his shoulders for one more year. He has borne that risk for far less money during the last two season.
There’s risk for the Giants, too. By not getting Cruz signed over the long term now, they could find themselves having to choose between Cruz and receiver Hakeem Nicks in 2014 — with only one franchise tag available.
And with Cruz arguably being the most popular player currently on the roster, a failure to fairly reward him for two seasons of consistently strong production could cause problems, both outside and inside the locker room.
Besides, Cruz has a way to minimize his risk. He can hold out until Week 10, sign the restricted free agency tender then, make $1.19 million for the balance of the year (which is much more than he has made in any one season during his career), and then become an unrestricted free agent in 2014 — or get more than $10 million under the franchise tag.
Cruz didn’t make it this far in his career by running from risk. So to balance out Myers’ advice that Smith should take the money and the security that comes with it, we say this: Hold out until you get what you deserve, even if that means playing only seven-regular season games for $1.19 million.
- Dec 14, 2004
- 60,034
- 50,948
^ Giants have offered over 7 mil a year and 21 mil guaranteed but he wants a Mike Wallace contract.
Victor is my man and he's Puerto Rican so I'm a huge fan but he had one great season and followed with a good season. 21 mil guaranteed is more than enough. Son is busy doing commercials and at every even in NY and dropping passes all of last year.
Victor is my man and he's Puerto Rican so I'm a huge fan but he had one great season and followed with a good season. 21 mil guaranteed is more than enough. Son is busy doing commercials and at every even in NY and dropping passes all of last year.
pabstblueribbon
Banned
- Mar 5, 2013
- 1,137
- 172
The funny thing is majority of giants fans say nicks is the better WR.
Cruz had the fan fair and following behind him.
It's interesting situation for the giants, esp considering the drafting of a WR last year and with Nicks being in a contract year this year.
Cruz had the fan fair and following behind him.
It's interesting situation for the giants, esp considering the drafting of a WR last year and with Nicks being in a contract year this year.
- Dec 14, 2004
- 60,034
- 50,948
^ Nicks is definitely better but he's been playing hurt. I would love to keep both but don't know if it'll happen. They're trying to though.
- May 7, 2005
- 8,044
- 5,894
thats the giants fan in you..dude is DEF worth what vincent/miles/desean got...
and i can almost guarantee on the open market he would command a mike wallace type contract...nicks is the better receiver but one can argue cruz is worth more to the team..seeing as tho he doesnt miss games like nicks...
pay that man or s omeone else will next year...u can believe that
- Nov 20, 2007
- 8,859
- 577
49ers reached agreement on a one-year deal with former Eagles CB Nnamdi Asomugha. Up to $3mill.
shatterkneesinc
Banned
- Nov 25, 2005
- 22,524
- 2,383
nicks is better and should be healthy next season. as much as i like cruz i would take nicks anyday of the week.
cruz is good but lets not pretend that nicks presence didnt made cruz look great
the contract offered to cruz is more than fair
cruz is good but lets not pretend that nicks presence didnt made cruz look great
the contract offered to cruz is more than fair
- Dec 14, 2004
- 60,034
- 50,948
I'm assuming you're talking about Vincent Jackson? He's the only one you listed that is great. DeSean and Miles are not even close to what they got paid. Cruz wants more but part of his popularity is being in NY since there's such a large hispanic community. He's at an event every night, at probably half of the Knicks home games this season. I love Victor but this is only his third year playing this season and he's a small guy, they usually don't last long or miss a few games a year. We'll see what happens though.
- Dec 14, 2004
- 60,034
- 50,948
Very curious to see how this turns out. He was good in Oakland, trash in Philly.
- Feb 17, 2007
- 21,784
- 2,957
Nnamdi will be better than he was in Philly.
- May 30, 2009
- 4,747
- 34
Can't wait to see Julio torch nnamdi again 
jumpmanfromdabay
Banned
- Jan 25, 2008
- 25,730
- 2,900
- Jul 22, 2001
- 8,392
- 268
Not a huge prediction right there to be honest. I was better sitting on my couch than Nnamdi was in Philly.
Im not entirely sure whether his Oakland success wasnt more that the guy on the opposite side of him just sucked so bad that is was easier to pick on them the whole game rather than going after Nnamdi's man. Seeing what went down last season.
But we will see I guess.
- Feb 17, 2007
- 21,784
- 2,957
Would it surprise anyone to see Nnamdi perform just as poorly? I wouldn't take for granted that he will be better, but I think he's going to rededicate himself and develop an urgency that will keep him in the league as a starter.
pabstblueribbon
Banned
- Mar 5, 2013
- 1,137
- 172
Nnamdi is done.
we might see a small increase from what we saw last year but thats not saying much
Fitz x 2
Dre
Harvin x 2
Reggie Wayne
Bresus and Co.
Vincent Jackson
Matty Ice and Co.
A-Rod and Co.
RIP.
we might see a small increase from what we saw last year but thats not saying much
| 2013 San Francisco 49ers Opponents | |
| Home | Arizona, St. Louis, Seattle, Atlanta, Carolina, Houston, Indianapolis, Green Bay |
| Away | Arizona, St. Louis, Seattle, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Washington |
Dre
Harvin x 2
Reggie Wayne
Bresus and Co.
Vincent Jackson
Matty Ice and Co.
A-Rod and Co.
RIP.
- Status
