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so do the lakers win with shaq only and not kobe?.
NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by CP1708,
- Start date
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Malone 2nd. Barkley 4th.
Malone had one of the most phenomenal careers, even if he never got a ring. Charles was amazing too with a trip to the Finals, but I think the most telling thing about Dirk in comparison to Charles is that Charles himself would put Dirk ahead of him.
It's hard for me to say that a single season can boost someone up this far, but the guy averaged 27.7 PPG, 8 boards, 48.5% FG, 46% 3PT, and 94% FT.
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Malone 2nd. Barkley 4th.
Malone had one of the most phenomenal careers, even if he never got a ring. Charles was amazing too with a trip to the Finals, but I think the most telling thing about Dirk in comparison to Charles is that Charles himself would put Dirk ahead of him.
It's hard for me to say that a single season can boost someone up this far, but the guy averaged 27.7 PPG, 8 boards, 48.5% FG, 46% 3PT, and 94% FT.
I don't want to sit and hold everybody's hand on who to type about. I thought about doing it where we open the floor and discuss Nash's career and everybody goes on about it, then after a week or so stop, and switch to Shaq discussion. But that could and would get tired, quick. Some may not even want to discuss Nash or whomever and would leave the thread and not be around for a player they do want to talk about.Originally Posted by JapanAir21
Are we free to just post whatever nonsense we want? Or is there some structure?
So let's do this, it's open discussion, just tell me when you are posting, who it's about. Start out with
Dirk's Legacy
I think etc etc etc etc etc
on and on
on and on
on and on
Paragraph.
Nash's Legacy
Etc etc
etc
etc
Paragraph.
That way I can break up those quotes and post them under resumes later. Helps me, plus if anyone wants to quote you instead of quoting a whole wall of text, they can break it down by player, keeps things a little cleaner and more organized.
Make sense to everyone?
Deuce, I only pointed out those 2 instances to show you the point, if you don't think that 2 years later Kobe was even better than he was at 21, I don't know how to help you brother. And I don't want to turn this into a Kobe implosion of a thread. He's just a part of it, not all of it. If you want me to list you out game by game by which Kobe proved his worth and value like say the 45 and 48 games back to back the next year, on the road, vs 60 win teams Sacramento and San Antonio, I can do so. But not in here.Send me a PM if you want me to teach you on his career and how ridiculous you always sound.
I don't want to sit and hold everybody's hand on who to type about. I thought about doing it where we open the floor and discuss Nash's career and everybody goes on about it, then after a week or so stop, and switch to Shaq discussion. But that could and would get tired, quick. Some may not even want to discuss Nash or whomever and would leave the thread and not be around for a player they do want to talk about.Originally Posted by JapanAir21
Are we free to just post whatever nonsense we want? Or is there some structure?
So let's do this, it's open discussion, just tell me when you are posting, who it's about. Start out with
Dirk's Legacy
I think etc etc etc etc etc
on and on
on and on
on and on
Paragraph.
Nash's Legacy
Etc etc
etc
etc
Paragraph.
That way I can break up those quotes and post them under resumes later. Helps me, plus if anyone wants to quote you instead of quoting a whole wall of text, they can break it down by player, keeps things a little cleaner and more organized.
Make sense to everyone?
Deuce, I only pointed out those 2 instances to show you the point, if you don't think that 2 years later Kobe was even better than he was at 21, I don't know how to help you brother. And I don't want to turn this into a Kobe implosion of a thread. He's just a part of it, not all of it. If you want me to list you out game by game by which Kobe proved his worth and value like say the 45 and 48 games back to back the next year, on the road, vs 60 win teams Sacramento and San Antonio, I can do so. But not in here.Send me a PM if you want me to teach you on his career and how ridiculous you always sound.
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Great thread OP.
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Great thread OP.
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Alright. Cool, maybe I'll have something for later.
Something NBATV put up..
10+ ASG, Regular Season MVP, Finals MVP
Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Bird, Moses, Wilt, Hakeem, TD, Shaq, Kobe, Dirk.
Very short list, great company. I know ASG really means nothing, but damn.
Something NBATV put up..
10+ ASG, Regular Season MVP, Finals MVP
Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Bird, Moses, Wilt, Hakeem, TD, Shaq, Kobe, Dirk.
Very short list, great company. I know ASG really means nothing, but damn.
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Alright. Cool, maybe I'll have something for later.
Something NBATV put up..
10+ ASG, Regular Season MVP, Finals MVP
Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Bird, Moses, Wilt, Hakeem, TD, Shaq, Kobe, Dirk.
Very short list, great company. I know ASG really means nothing, but damn.
Something NBATV put up..
10+ ASG, Regular Season MVP, Finals MVP
Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Bird, Moses, Wilt, Hakeem, TD, Shaq, Kobe, Dirk.
Very short list, great company. I know ASG really means nothing, but damn.
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Deuce, Shaw is considered the most dominant over the last 15 years. But I don't think it is right or fair to just insinuate that he would have won without Kobe being on the same mob. I feel they needed each other to win those rings.
So my question, when discussing Kobe's legacy, do we just forget those 3 rings? I am talking to you Deuce.
So my question, when discussing Kobe's legacy, do we just forget those 3 rings? I am talking to you Deuce.
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Deuce, Shaw is considered the most dominant over the last 15 years. But I don't think it is right or fair to just insinuate that he would have won without Kobe being on the same mob. I feel they needed each other to win those rings.
So my question, when discussing Kobe's legacy, do we just forget those 3 rings? I am talking to you Deuce.
So my question, when discussing Kobe's legacy, do we just forget those 3 rings? I am talking to you Deuce.
hoosierdaddy282
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WADE'S Legacy:
There's one thing people always overlook when comparing the heat duo to Kobe. They travel ALL THE TIME. Regardless of era, taking 4 to 6 steps every other play is not good basketball, whether they call it or not. See, Kobe is from that era where you had to dribble to score. Can you imagine how unguardable MJ would be if he had a "crab dribble" in his repertoire? And that Euro-step cheese that Wade does? It's beautiful when it works. But when it fails, all it does is highlight Wade's lack of size and how he has to compensate for it with timing and agility (make that SUPERB timing and agility, but still). Kobe, in his prime athletic days, was a threat to go OVER you. Wade has been a threat that would go through you, but only if he caught you back peddling or not paying attention
. In closing, I love Wade. But he doesn't have enough time or gas mileage to catch the Ring Leader. Now that LeBum guy?
There's one thing people always overlook when comparing the heat duo to Kobe. They travel ALL THE TIME. Regardless of era, taking 4 to 6 steps every other play is not good basketball, whether they call it or not. See, Kobe is from that era where you had to dribble to score. Can you imagine how unguardable MJ would be if he had a "crab dribble" in his repertoire? And that Euro-step cheese that Wade does? It's beautiful when it works. But when it fails, all it does is highlight Wade's lack of size and how he has to compensate for it with timing and agility (make that SUPERB timing and agility, but still). Kobe, in his prime athletic days, was a threat to go OVER you. Wade has been a threat that would go through you, but only if he caught you back peddling or not paying attention
hoosierdaddy282
Banned
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WADE'S Legacy:
There's one thing people always overlook when comparing the heat duo to Kobe. They travel ALL THE TIME. Regardless of era, taking 4 to 6 steps every other play is not good basketball, whether they call it or not. See, Kobe is from that era where you had to dribble to score. Can you imagine how unguardable MJ would be if he had a "crab dribble" in his repertoire? And that Euro-step cheese that Wade does? It's beautiful when it works. But when it fails, all it does is highlight Wade's lack of size and how he has to compensate for it with timing and agility (make that SUPERB timing and agility, but still). Kobe, in his prime athletic days, was a threat to go OVER you. Wade has been a threat that would go through you, but only if he caught you back peddling or not paying attention
. In closing, I love Wade. But he doesn't have enough time or gas mileage to catch the Ring Leader. Now that LeBum guy?
There's one thing people always overlook when comparing the heat duo to Kobe. They travel ALL THE TIME. Regardless of era, taking 4 to 6 steps every other play is not good basketball, whether they call it or not. See, Kobe is from that era where you had to dribble to score. Can you imagine how unguardable MJ would be if he had a "crab dribble" in his repertoire? And that Euro-step cheese that Wade does? It's beautiful when it works. But when it fails, all it does is highlight Wade's lack of size and how he has to compensate for it with timing and agility (make that SUPERB timing and agility, but still). Kobe, in his prime athletic days, was a threat to go OVER you. Wade has been a threat that would go through you, but only if he caught you back peddling or not paying attention
The 10 All Star part speaks to the longevity of a player. Think of TMac for instance, not lasting long enough to get to 10. That's what they are saying, Dirk has been all star worthy for a decade, got an MVP, and a Finals MVP. Not a lot of people stay good enough for over a decade.
The 10 All Star part speaks to the longevity of a player. Think of TMac for instance, not lasting long enough to get to 10. That's what they are saying, Dirk has been all star worthy for a decade, got an MVP, and a Finals MVP. Not a lot of people stay good enough for over a decade.
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Again, I think your either/or approach is clouding your judgement bruh. Guess Glenn Rice and Shaq would have been on the podium
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Again, I think your either/or approach is clouding your judgement bruh. Guess Glenn Rice and Shaq would have been on the podium
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Yeah he wasn't Brian Cardinal out there, but he dam sure wasn't the anchor of either of those first 3 championships which is exactly what I was getting at. Which is why you only menitoned 2 games from the 3 championship series that he was in for the first 3 rings he got. As far as giving absolute credit ever in a championship if ever one was considered for any team in NBA history be it past, present or future, for this example here just for that Laker teams that Shaq and Kobe was on Shaq was the MAIN guy.
Did you even watch any Lakers games those years? Kobe was "The Dagger", that's where he got this closer status. He closed out games for us because everyone used the "Hack-a-Shaq" strategy late in games. Therefore, they both were the man. I'm not taking any credit from the Big Fella, but without Kobe we wouldn't have won squat. Like we re-learned this Finals during all the hoopla, it takes a team to win. Did Kobe and Shaq have their differences, of course but when it became winning time he showed up for the team. Noone wins by themselves.
To the guy who said Duncan>Kobe, Kobe has more rings, better stats, and has also had a bigger "fear factor" than Duncan. For those who say Duncan was "the man" for his titles, not to discredit Tim Duncan, but Tony Parker won a Finals MVP and Manu got jobbed one. Timmy D is still the best PF ever, but to say his teams were full of scrubs and he did it by himself is blasphemy. He had a HOF center for two of those titles, declining or not he was still a very capable big body in the paint. He also had, quite possibly, the third or fourth best coach of all-time in Pop. Duncan never did it by himself because noone ever does.
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Yeah he wasn't Brian Cardinal out there, but he dam sure wasn't the anchor of either of those first 3 championships which is exactly what I was getting at. Which is why you only menitoned 2 games from the 3 championship series that he was in for the first 3 rings he got. As far as giving absolute credit ever in a championship if ever one was considered for any team in NBA history be it past, present or future, for this example here just for that Laker teams that Shaq and Kobe was on Shaq was the MAIN guy.
Did you even watch any Lakers games those years? Kobe was "The Dagger", that's where he got this closer status. He closed out games for us because everyone used the "Hack-a-Shaq" strategy late in games. Therefore, they both were the man. I'm not taking any credit from the Big Fella, but without Kobe we wouldn't have won squat. Like we re-learned this Finals during all the hoopla, it takes a team to win. Did Kobe and Shaq have their differences, of course but when it became winning time he showed up for the team. Noone wins by themselves.
To the guy who said Duncan>Kobe, Kobe has more rings, better stats, and has also had a bigger "fear factor" than Duncan. For those who say Duncan was "the man" for his titles, not to discredit Tim Duncan, but Tony Parker won a Finals MVP and Manu got jobbed one. Timmy D is still the best PF ever, but to say his teams were full of scrubs and he did it by himself is blasphemy. He had a HOF center for two of those titles, declining or not he was still a very capable big body in the paint. He also had, quite possibly, the third or fourth best coach of all-time in Pop. Duncan never did it by himself because noone ever does.
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Shaq himself said he needed Kobe and Kobe neeeded him lol...Why argue about it?
Kobe averaged 29 a game at one point in the playoffs and regular season with Shaq... I laugh when people make it seem like he didn't do anything.
I know some of you don't like Kobe, but don't go out and try to make it seem like Kobe wasn't dominating as well.
Kobe averaged 29 a game at one point in the playoffs and regular season with Shaq... I laugh when people make it seem like he didn't do anything.
I know some of you don't like Kobe, but don't go out and try to make it seem like Kobe wasn't dominating as well.
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Shaq himself said he needed Kobe and Kobe neeeded him lol...Why argue about it?
Kobe averaged 29 a game at one point in the playoffs and regular season with Shaq... I laugh when people make it seem like he didn't do anything.
I know some of you don't like Kobe, but don't go out and try to make it seem like Kobe wasn't dominating as well.
Kobe averaged 29 a game at one point in the playoffs and regular season with Shaq... I laugh when people make it seem like he didn't do anything.
I know some of you don't like Kobe, but don't go out and try to make it seem like Kobe wasn't dominating as well.
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I want to talk about Kidd too.
10 years from now, we might look back on this Playoff run and say, "Ehh, Kidd was just along for the ride like Gary Payton was."
No, definitely not. Kidd didn't have the points this year to make him stand out, and he didn't have double-digit dimes every game, but what he did was what every single person in the world, including most Mavericks fans, myself included, though he lost. His biggest value to this team was as a defender. Turning back the clock, Kidd faced superstars ranging from Roy, Russell Westbrook, Kobe, Durant, Wade, and even LeBron. Did he ever shut down these guys for complete games? No, not really, but he got all of these guys out of their groove at some time in the game.
During this run, he wouldn't give up. He wouldn't ever admit defeat and let his man go off. Now I won't get blinded by the championship and say he was the primary defender on Kobe, Westbrook, Durant, Wade and Lebron ALL the time. He wasn't, it was a team effort with help from DeShawn Stevenson and Shawn Marion. But, with that said, when it mattered most, Kidd was getting the picks, he was the guy staying in front of some of the fastest guys in the L, he was staying in front of one of the strongest men in the L like LeBron, he was doing all he could in crunch time to make sure that these guys couldn't get off.
His perseverance is what allowed us to come back so many games. I don't know the number exactly, but the Mavericks came back from double-digit deficits countless times during these Playoffs. It was a run that was magical, one-of-a-kind, and how did they all begin? With stops on the defensive end. We tightened up, switched to the zone, did whatever we could, and Jason Kidd was right there at the forefront to lead us. You would have told me prior to the Playoffs that Jason Kidd was our best crunch-time defender I would've giggled, and the rest of the basketball world would have called you an idiot. But you know what? In the 2011 NBA Playoffs? He sure as hell did.
With all this said, you have to approach the question again of where does he belong? Among all the other players in the League, I find it hard to rank PGs unless their in their own class. Magic is obviously the one exception, but it's hard for me personally to put a label on John Stockton and say where he ranks all-time compared to other greats like Hakeem, Kareem, or Kobe. Obviously below all of them, but it's just a way to show how hard it is to compare PGs to every other position. In regards to Jason Kidd and where he ranks among other PGs? It's really hard for me to put him above guys like Stockton, O, and Isiah, but he's right there. He has the leadership of Isiah Thomas. He has the versatility of the Big O, and he has the longevity of John Stockton. The NBA will lose a great talent when this man retires. Kidd never had the scoring capacity that other great PGs had, and that's what will keep him from surpassing O and Isiah, but, I think being right there with them, in a 3A, 3B, 3C kind of ranking, isn't out of the question at all. Jason Kidd is THE role model of those who can persevere. Jason Kidd was one of the first players to really succeed after having microfracture surgery.
He's an old man, but this just proves that an old dog can learn new tricks (Or in this case, use tricks once lost).
10 years from now, we might look back on this Playoff run and say, "Ehh, Kidd was just along for the ride like Gary Payton was."
No, definitely not. Kidd didn't have the points this year to make him stand out, and he didn't have double-digit dimes every game, but what he did was what every single person in the world, including most Mavericks fans, myself included, though he lost. His biggest value to this team was as a defender. Turning back the clock, Kidd faced superstars ranging from Roy, Russell Westbrook, Kobe, Durant, Wade, and even LeBron. Did he ever shut down these guys for complete games? No, not really, but he got all of these guys out of their groove at some time in the game.
During this run, he wouldn't give up. He wouldn't ever admit defeat and let his man go off. Now I won't get blinded by the championship and say he was the primary defender on Kobe, Westbrook, Durant, Wade and Lebron ALL the time. He wasn't, it was a team effort with help from DeShawn Stevenson and Shawn Marion. But, with that said, when it mattered most, Kidd was getting the picks, he was the guy staying in front of some of the fastest guys in the L, he was staying in front of one of the strongest men in the L like LeBron, he was doing all he could in crunch time to make sure that these guys couldn't get off.
His perseverance is what allowed us to come back so many games. I don't know the number exactly, but the Mavericks came back from double-digit deficits countless times during these Playoffs. It was a run that was magical, one-of-a-kind, and how did they all begin? With stops on the defensive end. We tightened up, switched to the zone, did whatever we could, and Jason Kidd was right there at the forefront to lead us. You would have told me prior to the Playoffs that Jason Kidd was our best crunch-time defender I would've giggled, and the rest of the basketball world would have called you an idiot. But you know what? In the 2011 NBA Playoffs? He sure as hell did.
With all this said, you have to approach the question again of where does he belong? Among all the other players in the League, I find it hard to rank PGs unless their in their own class. Magic is obviously the one exception, but it's hard for me personally to put a label on John Stockton and say where he ranks all-time compared to other greats like Hakeem, Kareem, or Kobe. Obviously below all of them, but it's just a way to show how hard it is to compare PGs to every other position. In regards to Jason Kidd and where he ranks among other PGs? It's really hard for me to put him above guys like Stockton, O, and Isiah, but he's right there. He has the leadership of Isiah Thomas. He has the versatility of the Big O, and he has the longevity of John Stockton. The NBA will lose a great talent when this man retires. Kidd never had the scoring capacity that other great PGs had, and that's what will keep him from surpassing O and Isiah, but, I think being right there with them, in a 3A, 3B, 3C kind of ranking, isn't out of the question at all. Jason Kidd is THE role model of those who can persevere. Jason Kidd was one of the first players to really succeed after having microfracture surgery.
He's an old man, but this just proves that an old dog can learn new tricks (Or in this case, use tricks once lost).
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I want to talk about Kidd too.
10 years from now, we might look back on this Playoff run and say, "Ehh, Kidd was just along for the ride like Gary Payton was."
No, definitely not. Kidd didn't have the points this year to make him stand out, and he didn't have double-digit dimes every game, but what he did was what every single person in the world, including most Mavericks fans, myself included, though he lost. His biggest value to this team was as a defender. Turning back the clock, Kidd faced superstars ranging from Roy, Russell Westbrook, Kobe, Durant, Wade, and even LeBron. Did he ever shut down these guys for complete games? No, not really, but he got all of these guys out of their groove at some time in the game.
During this run, he wouldn't give up. He wouldn't ever admit defeat and let his man go off. Now I won't get blinded by the championship and say he was the primary defender on Kobe, Westbrook, Durant, Wade and Lebron ALL the time. He wasn't, it was a team effort with help from DeShawn Stevenson and Shawn Marion. But, with that said, when it mattered most, Kidd was getting the picks, he was the guy staying in front of some of the fastest guys in the L, he was staying in front of one of the strongest men in the L like LeBron, he was doing all he could in crunch time to make sure that these guys couldn't get off.
His perseverance is what allowed us to come back so many games. I don't know the number exactly, but the Mavericks came back from double-digit deficits countless times during these Playoffs. It was a run that was magical, one-of-a-kind, and how did they all begin? With stops on the defensive end. We tightened up, switched to the zone, did whatever we could, and Jason Kidd was right there at the forefront to lead us. You would have told me prior to the Playoffs that Jason Kidd was our best crunch-time defender I would've giggled, and the rest of the basketball world would have called you an idiot. But you know what? In the 2011 NBA Playoffs? He sure as hell did.
With all this said, you have to approach the question again of where does he belong? Among all the other players in the League, I find it hard to rank PGs unless their in their own class. Magic is obviously the one exception, but it's hard for me personally to put a label on John Stockton and say where he ranks all-time compared to other greats like Hakeem, Kareem, or Kobe. Obviously below all of them, but it's just a way to show how hard it is to compare PGs to every other position. In regards to Jason Kidd and where he ranks among other PGs? It's really hard for me to put him above guys like Stockton, O, and Isiah, but he's right there. He has the leadership of Isiah Thomas. He has the versatility of the Big O, and he has the longevity of John Stockton. The NBA will lose a great talent when this man retires. Kidd never had the scoring capacity that other great PGs had, and that's what will keep him from surpassing O and Isiah, but, I think being right there with them, in a 3A, 3B, 3C kind of ranking, isn't out of the question at all. Jason Kidd is THE role model of those who can persevere. Jason Kidd was one of the first players to really succeed after having microfracture surgery.
He's an old man, but this just proves that an old dog can learn new tricks (Or in this case, use tricks once lost).
10 years from now, we might look back on this Playoff run and say, "Ehh, Kidd was just along for the ride like Gary Payton was."
No, definitely not. Kidd didn't have the points this year to make him stand out, and he didn't have double-digit dimes every game, but what he did was what every single person in the world, including most Mavericks fans, myself included, though he lost. His biggest value to this team was as a defender. Turning back the clock, Kidd faced superstars ranging from Roy, Russell Westbrook, Kobe, Durant, Wade, and even LeBron. Did he ever shut down these guys for complete games? No, not really, but he got all of these guys out of their groove at some time in the game.
During this run, he wouldn't give up. He wouldn't ever admit defeat and let his man go off. Now I won't get blinded by the championship and say he was the primary defender on Kobe, Westbrook, Durant, Wade and Lebron ALL the time. He wasn't, it was a team effort with help from DeShawn Stevenson and Shawn Marion. But, with that said, when it mattered most, Kidd was getting the picks, he was the guy staying in front of some of the fastest guys in the L, he was staying in front of one of the strongest men in the L like LeBron, he was doing all he could in crunch time to make sure that these guys couldn't get off.
His perseverance is what allowed us to come back so many games. I don't know the number exactly, but the Mavericks came back from double-digit deficits countless times during these Playoffs. It was a run that was magical, one-of-a-kind, and how did they all begin? With stops on the defensive end. We tightened up, switched to the zone, did whatever we could, and Jason Kidd was right there at the forefront to lead us. You would have told me prior to the Playoffs that Jason Kidd was our best crunch-time defender I would've giggled, and the rest of the basketball world would have called you an idiot. But you know what? In the 2011 NBA Playoffs? He sure as hell did.
With all this said, you have to approach the question again of where does he belong? Among all the other players in the League, I find it hard to rank PGs unless their in their own class. Magic is obviously the one exception, but it's hard for me personally to put a label on John Stockton and say where he ranks all-time compared to other greats like Hakeem, Kareem, or Kobe. Obviously below all of them, but it's just a way to show how hard it is to compare PGs to every other position. In regards to Jason Kidd and where he ranks among other PGs? It's really hard for me to put him above guys like Stockton, O, and Isiah, but he's right there. He has the leadership of Isiah Thomas. He has the versatility of the Big O, and he has the longevity of John Stockton. The NBA will lose a great talent when this man retires. Kidd never had the scoring capacity that other great PGs had, and that's what will keep him from surpassing O and Isiah, but, I think being right there with them, in a 3A, 3B, 3C kind of ranking, isn't out of the question at all. Jason Kidd is THE role model of those who can persevere. Jason Kidd was one of the first players to really succeed after having microfracture surgery.
He's an old man, but this just proves that an old dog can learn new tricks (Or in this case, use tricks once lost).
