NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Only difference right now between Wade and Kobe to me is rings. Kobe's never amazed me as a passer or rebounder. He gets the right amount for his height during his prime and he's been a slightly above average defender.

Wade's not as good a shooter but that's the only other slight I'm seeing in comparison.

Kobe never amazed you as a passer, doesn't mean he isn't a good one. 

 

[essential1]

As respect to the 4 people who's legacy were hanging in the balance...

JKidd... I hate the guy.. And liked GP better than him... But a person who came in the league as a terrible shooter will leave as a respectable shooter.. And #3 on the all time 3's list (although him playing 18 years has something to do with it, you don't get to #3 if you don't hit the shot)... Very good defender... 6.5 boards a game as a point guard is tremendous.. And one of the best court visions in history, no Magic Johnson but still is toward the top... I'd say Top 5-7 Point Guard of all time (Magic, Oscar and could make a convincing argument for Isiah, CP3, Nash, Cousy ahead of him).. And the consumate professional.... And the ring definately helps his legacy especially that he made solid contributions to the team and wasn't a 5 minute guy in his last year just trying to get a ring..

Dirk... Unworldly.. That's all I got to say.. Top 20..

Wade... It's really tough because his best days could be ahead of him.. Could be behind him... If the Big 3 don't win at all he falls... But as it stand like JKidd Top 5-7 2-guards of all time... I think when said and done he can be #3 all time 2-guard... As respect to the Kobe vs. DWade debate DWade's resume will never stack up unless the Heat absolutely dominate in the next 5 years because if they get bounced out year after year or fail in the finals that will be a microcosm of Wade's career... And when you do head-to-head comparison you see the stats are fairly close.. But if you look closer Kobe's personal career stats are held down by only starting 7 times in his 1st 2 season.. When he played in 150 of the 164 possible games.. It puts him in 11th all time points per game when if you take his 1st year of full time playing he is in 3rd or 4th all time.. Not much Kobe could have done about that.. He was a person out of high school, that was drafted then traded to a team that had an All Star 2 guard on the team already.... Kobe's FG%, FT%, RPG, APG, and PPG are all disproportionally represented because he played 2 full seasons as a bench player...

LeBron... His legacy suffered this past 11 months... But was shredded in the span of 2 weeks.. That Killer instict that the MJ's, Kobe's, Magic's, Larry's have he just doesn't possess.. The thing that separates the Greatest from sparks of Greatness is showing up in the big stage... LeBron is one of the best raw talents the NBA has ever seen.. But on the court, and relating to things having to do with basketball his legacy has been Mike Tyson KO'd... He's made himself into a spectacle.. Whether it was the Decision debacle which was one of the worst self-aggrandizing moments in sports.. To declaring the Heat would win 7+ titles... Showboating... Making excuses... Having the worst PR team... Blowing every pressure situation in the past... Making himself one of the most hated players in basketball by not just fans but writers by acting like a ****... With all that he still had the opportunity to @%!! on all of that and put himself in the top 5 discussion in terms of legacy if he came up big... It looked like it was his time because he was torching everyone in the playoffs.. But when the spot light got bright he shrunk to the point of disappearance... He can still change that, but we are talking about legacy.. And with him completely blowing it getting massacred in his first finals appearance (which is ok because the Spurs had a far better team)... To being worse than a role player this year.. He cost them that series.. And with that his legacy went from potential top 5, to just outside the top 20... (Once again we are talking LEGACY... Before any one says anything)... He's got 7-10 years left in his career so it is plenty of time to change it, but right now his legacy is on the downside rather than the upside... 

 

[essential1]

As respect to the 4 people who's legacy were hanging in the balance...

JKidd... I hate the guy.. And liked GP better than him... But a person who came in the league as a terrible shooter will leave as a respectable shooter.. And #3 on the all time 3's list (although him playing 18 years has something to do with it, you don't get to #3 if you don't hit the shot)... Very good defender... 6.5 boards a game as a point guard is tremendous.. And one of the best court visions in history, no Magic Johnson but still is toward the top... I'd say Top 5-7 Point Guard of all time (Magic, Oscar and could make a convincing argument for Isiah, CP3, Nash, Cousy ahead of him).. And the consumate professional.... And the ring definately helps his legacy especially that he made solid contributions to the team and wasn't a 5 minute guy in his last year just trying to get a ring..

Dirk... Unworldly.. That's all I got to say.. Top 20..

Wade... It's really tough because his best days could be ahead of him.. Could be behind him... If the Big 3 don't win at all he falls... But as it stand like JKidd Top 5-7 2-guards of all time... I think when said and done he can be #3 all time 2-guard... As respect to the Kobe vs. DWade debate DWade's resume will never stack up unless the Heat absolutely dominate in the next 5 years because if they get bounced out year after year or fail in the finals that will be a microcosm of Wade's career... And when you do head-to-head comparison you see the stats are fairly close.. But if you look closer Kobe's personal career stats are held down by only starting 7 times in his 1st 2 season.. When he played in 150 of the 164 possible games.. It puts him in 11th all time points per game when if you take his 1st year of full time playing he is in 3rd or 4th all time.. Not much Kobe could have done about that.. He was a person out of high school, that was drafted then traded to a team that had an All Star 2 guard on the team already.... Kobe's FG%, FT%, RPG, APG, and PPG are all disproportionally represented because he played 2 full seasons as a bench player...

LeBron... His legacy suffered this past 11 months... But was shredded in the span of 2 weeks.. That Killer instict that the MJ's, Kobe's, Magic's, Larry's have he just doesn't possess.. The thing that separates the Greatest from sparks of Greatness is showing up in the big stage... LeBron is one of the best raw talents the NBA has ever seen.. But on the court, and relating to things having to do with basketball his legacy has been Mike Tyson KO'd... He's made himself into a spectacle.. Whether it was the Decision debacle which was one of the worst self-aggrandizing moments in sports.. To declaring the Heat would win 7+ titles... Showboating... Making excuses... Having the worst PR team... Blowing every pressure situation in the past... Making himself one of the most hated players in basketball by not just fans but writers by acting like a ****... With all that he still had the opportunity to @%!! on all of that and put himself in the top 5 discussion in terms of legacy if he came up big... It looked like it was his time because he was torching everyone in the playoffs.. But when the spot light got bright he shrunk to the point of disappearance... He can still change that, but we are talking about legacy.. And with him completely blowing it getting massacred in his first finals appearance (which is ok because the Spurs had a far better team)... To being worse than a role player this year.. He cost them that series.. And with that his legacy went from potential top 5, to just outside the top 20... (Once again we are talking LEGACY... Before any one says anything)... He's got 7-10 years left in his career so it is plenty of time to change it, but right now his legacy is on the downside rather than the upside... 

 

[uncalled4boy]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Only difference right now between Wade and Kobe to me is rings. Kobe's never amazed me as a passer or rebounder. He gets the right amount for his height during his prime and he's been a slightly above average defender.

Wade's not as good a shooter but that's the only other slight I'm seeing in comparison.

Kobe Has Been A Great Passer Throughout His Career...00-02 Wen He Was The Primary Ball Handler He Distributed Well To Teammates, Made Things Much Easier For Shaq Often
Even At This Point In His Career Wen He Opts To Facilitate He Does It Very Well, Maybe Not As Much 'Flash' But Very Well

And He Has Consistently Been A Solid Rebounding Guard...Again Not Much 'Flash' But Very Effective

 

[uncalled4boy]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Only difference right now between Wade and Kobe to me is rings. Kobe's never amazed me as a passer or rebounder. He gets the right amount for his height during his prime and he's been a slightly above average defender.

Wade's not as good a shooter but that's the only other slight I'm seeing in comparison.

Kobe Has Been A Great Passer Throughout His Career...00-02 Wen He Was The Primary Ball Handler He Distributed Well To Teammates, Made Things Much Easier For Shaq Often
Even At This Point In His Career Wen He Opts To Facilitate He Does It Very Well, Maybe Not As Much 'Flash' But Very Well

And He Has Consistently Been A Solid Rebounding Guard...Again Not Much 'Flash' But Very Effective

 

[mr j 858]

Originally Posted by UnCalled4Boy

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Only difference right now between Wade and Kobe to me is rings. Kobe's never amazed me as a passer or rebounder. He gets the right amount for his height during his prime and he's been a slightly above average defender.

Wade's not as good a shooter but that's the only other slight I'm seeing in comparison.

Kobe Has Been A Great Passer Throughout His Career...00-02 Wen He Was The Primary Ball Handler He Distributed Well To Teammates, Made Things Much Easier For Shaq Often
Even At This Point In His Career Wen He Opts To Facilitate He Does It Very Well, Maybe Not As Much 'Flash' But Very Well

And He Has Consistently Been A Solid Rebounding Guard...Again Not Much 'Flash' But Very Effective

People who aren't Laker fans and only watch him & Laker games when they are on national TV quickly forget Kobe led the Lakers in assists each year during the 3 Peat Shaq & Kobe championship teams.

 

[mr j 858]

Originally Posted by UnCalled4Boy

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Only difference right now between Wade and Kobe to me is rings. Kobe's never amazed me as a passer or rebounder. He gets the right amount for his height during his prime and he's been a slightly above average defender.

Wade's not as good a shooter but that's the only other slight I'm seeing in comparison.

Kobe Has Been A Great Passer Throughout His Career...00-02 Wen He Was The Primary Ball Handler He Distributed Well To Teammates, Made Things Much Easier For Shaq Often
Even At This Point In His Career Wen He Opts To Facilitate He Does It Very Well, Maybe Not As Much 'Flash' But Very Well

And He Has Consistently Been A Solid Rebounding Guard...Again Not Much 'Flash' But Very Effective

People who aren't Laker fans and only watch him & Laker games when they are on national TV quickly forget Kobe led the Lakers in assists each year during the 3 Peat Shaq & Kobe championship teams.

 

[mr j 858]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

kobe is below duncan on my all-time list


as long as dirk can shoot the way he does, he can play (well) til he's 40 (so he still has time to distinguish himself on the all-time list)


right now it's hard to rank dirk because it all depends on what your team needs on whether you take him over say someone like KG

Duncan over Kobe on the all time list...

From a Rings stand point Kobe has 5 with a 3 Peat & Back to Back rings. While Duncan has won 4 and couldn't even win back to back titles. What did Duncan average this season 14 PPG this year ?

Also Kobe is at #6 career all time scoring leader and will likely end up being #2 or #3 if he puts in 4 or 5 more seasons.

 

[mr j 858]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

kobe is below duncan on my all-time list


as long as dirk can shoot the way he does, he can play (well) til he's 40 (so he still has time to distinguish himself on the all-time list)


right now it's hard to rank dirk because it all depends on what your team needs on whether you take him over say someone like KG

Duncan over Kobe on the all time list...

From a Rings stand point Kobe has 5 with a 3 Peat & Back to Back rings. While Duncan has won 4 and couldn't even win back to back titles. What did Duncan average this season 14 PPG this year ?

Also Kobe is at #6 career all time scoring leader and will likely end up being #2 or #3 if he puts in 4 or 5 more seasons.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by MR J 858

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

kobe is below duncan on my all-time list


as long as dirk can shoot the way he does, he can play (well) til he's 40 (so he still has time to distinguish himself on the all-time list)


right now it's hard to rank dirk because it all depends on what your team needs on whether you take him over say someone like KG

Duncan over Kobe on the all time list...

Are you serious? Why do people act like this is not an argument. Duncan is one of the most dominant 2 way players ever, he's likely the greatest power forward ever, he's  on of the few player to win a championship by himself with no second legit all star. If Tim Duncan is on your team you are a lock to win at least 47-50 games.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by MR J 858

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

kobe is below duncan on my all-time list


as long as dirk can shoot the way he does, he can play (well) til he's 40 (so he still has time to distinguish himself on the all-time list)


right now it's hard to rank dirk because it all depends on what your team needs on whether you take him over say someone like KG

Duncan over Kobe on the all time list...

Are you serious? Why do people act like this is not an argument. Duncan is one of the most dominant 2 way players ever, he's likely the greatest power forward ever, he's  on of the few player to win a championship by himself with no second legit all star. If Tim Duncan is on your team you are a lock to win at least 47-50 games.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by MR J 858

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

kobe is below duncan on my all-time list


as long as dirk can shoot the way he does, he can play (well) til he's 40 (so he still has time to distinguish himself on the all-time list)


right now it's hard to rank dirk because it all depends on what your team needs on whether you take him over say someone like KG

Duncan over Kobe on the all time list...

Are you serious? Why do people act like this is not an argument. Duncan is one of the most dominant 2 way players ever, he's likely the greatest power forward ever, he's  on of the few player to win a championship by himself with no second legit all star. If Tim Duncan is on your team you are a lock to win at least 47-50 games.

NOT SURE IF SERIOUS

Duncan has always had either Robinson or Parker and Gino

When has Duncan ever had a trash team around him? The closes is probably last year or this year and they were still good.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by MR J 858

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

kobe is below duncan on my all-time list


as long as dirk can shoot the way he does, he can play (well) til he's 40 (so he still has time to distinguish himself on the all-time list)


right now it's hard to rank dirk because it all depends on what your team needs on whether you take him over say someone like KG

Duncan over Kobe on the all time list...

Are you serious? Why do people act like this is not an argument. Duncan is one of the most dominant 2 way players ever, he's likely the greatest power forward ever, he's  on of the few player to win a championship by himself with no second legit all star. If Tim Duncan is on your team you are a lock to win at least 47-50 games.

NOT SURE IF SERIOUS

Duncan has always had either Robinson or Parker and Gino

When has Duncan ever had a trash team around him? The closes is probably last year or this year and they were still good.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by MR J 858


Duncan over Kobe on the all time list...

Are you serious? Why do people act like this is not an argument. Duncan is one of the most dominant 2 way players ever, he's likely the greatest power forward ever, he's  on of the few player to win a championship by himself with no second legit all star. If Tim Duncan is on your team you are a lock to win at least 47-50 games.

NOT SURE IF SERIOUS

Duncan has always had either Robinson or Parker and Gino

When has Duncan ever had a trash team around him? The closes is probably last year or this year and they were still good.

100 year old washed up robinson, rookie parker and ginobili were erratic are not legit second options.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by MR J 858


Duncan over Kobe on the all time list...

Are you serious? Why do people act like this is not an argument. Duncan is one of the most dominant 2 way players ever, he's likely the greatest power forward ever, he's  on of the few player to win a championship by himself with no second legit all star. If Tim Duncan is on your team you are a lock to win at least 47-50 games.

NOT SURE IF SERIOUS

Duncan has always had either Robinson or Parker and Gino

When has Duncan ever had a trash team around him? The closes is probably last year or this year and they were still good.

100 year old washed up robinson, rookie parker and ginobili were erratic are not legit second options.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Are you serious? Why do people act like this is not an argument. Duncan is one of the most dominant 2 way players ever, he's likely the greatest power forward ever, he's  on of the few player to win a championship by himself with no second legit all star. If Tim Duncan is on your team you are a lock to win at least 47-50 games.

NOT SURE IF SERIOUS

Duncan has always had either Robinson or Parker and Gino

When has Duncan ever had a trash team around him? The closes is probably last year or this year and they were still good.

100 year old washed up robinson, rookie parker and ginobili were erratic are not legit second options.

washed up robinson was a better defender than tim duncan dude was averaging 2.5 blocks per game in 99 along with 15ppg and 10rpg

He was the one that guarded Shaq in 99 and 2003 as well. Shaq always destroyed Duncan or any other bigs on the spurs not named Robinson.

Erratic parker and manu are so erratic that they are career 15+ppg scorers and can explode for 30 at any time.
Not legit second options? Parker and Manu can be legit FIRST options for their teams in their prime

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Are you serious? Why do people act like this is not an argument. Duncan is one of the most dominant 2 way players ever, he's likely the greatest power forward ever, he's  on of the few player to win a championship by himself with no second legit all star. If Tim Duncan is on your team you are a lock to win at least 47-50 games.

NOT SURE IF SERIOUS

Duncan has always had either Robinson or Parker and Gino

When has Duncan ever had a trash team around him? The closes is probably last year or this year and they were still good.

100 year old washed up robinson, rookie parker and ginobili were erratic are not legit second options.

washed up robinson was a better defender than tim duncan dude was averaging 2.5 blocks per game in 99 along with 15ppg and 10rpg

He was the one that guarded Shaq in 99 and 2003 as well. Shaq always destroyed Duncan or any other bigs on the spurs not named Robinson.

Erratic parker and manu are so erratic that they are career 15+ppg scorers and can explode for 30 at any time.
Not legit second options? Parker and Manu can be legit FIRST options for their teams in their prime

 

[osh kosh bosh]

THEY WERE NOT IN THERE PRIMES.

Are you serious man? I'm not saying they have been erratic there whole careers, 02-03 Spurs, Manu and Parker were not legitimate second options yet, Robinson was old an no longer a legit second option...Duncan won that by himself.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

THEY WERE NOT IN THERE PRIMES.

Are you serious man? I'm not saying they have been erratic there whole careers, 02-03 Spurs, Manu and Parker were not legitimate second options yet, Robinson was old an no longer a legit second option...Duncan won that by himself.

 

[CP1708]

Osh, stay cool man.

Remember what I told you in PM. Don't sweat the sideways stuff. You wanna break Dirk down for me please? I know you have a lot to say about him. I'll be in to update in about half an hour.

 

[CP1708]

Osh, stay cool man.

Remember what I told you in PM. Don't sweat the sideways stuff. You wanna break Dirk down for me please? I know you have a lot to say about him. I'll be in to update in about half an hour.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

THEY WERE NOT IN THERE PRIMES.

Are you serious man? I'm not saying they have been erratic there whole careers, 02-03 Spurs, Manu and Parker were not legitimate second options yet, Robinson was old an no longer a legit second option...Duncan won that by himself.

Parker was already averaging 15ppg that year and he SHREDDED the lakers defense. Manu did the same.
Parker also outplayed prime Jason Kidd in the finals in 2003

THERE IS ALSO NO WAY THE 2003 SPURS BEAT THE LAKERS WITHOUT ROBINSON. That was some of the best defense ever played on Shaq.
You can see this very well if you watch the 2003 vs the 2004 matchup. Robinson was not there in 2004 and Shaq beasted on the Spurs.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

THEY WERE NOT IN THERE PRIMES.

Are you serious man? I'm not saying they have been erratic there whole careers, 02-03 Spurs, Manu and Parker were not legitimate second options yet, Robinson was old an no longer a legit second option...Duncan won that by himself.

Parker was already averaging 15ppg that year and he SHREDDED the lakers defense. Manu did the same.
Parker also outplayed prime Jason Kidd in the finals in 2003

THERE IS ALSO NO WAY THE 2003 SPURS BEAT THE LAKERS WITHOUT ROBINSON. That was some of the best defense ever played on Shaq.
You can see this very well if you watch the 2003 vs the 2004 matchup. Robinson was not there in 2004 and Shaq beasted on the Spurs.

 

[pmatic]

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

THEY WERE NOT IN THERE PRIMES.

Are you serious man? I'm not saying they have been erratic there whole careers, 02-03 Spurs, Manu and Parker were not legitimate second options yet, Robinson was old an no longer a legit second option...Duncan won that by himself.

Parker was already averaging 15ppg that year and he SHREDDED the lakers defense. Manu did the same.
Parker also outplayed prime Jason Kidd in the finals in 2003

THERE IS ALSO NO WAY THE 2003 SPURS BEAT THE LAKERS WITHOUT ROBINSON. That was some of the best defense ever played on Shaq.
You can see this very well if you watch the 2003 vs the 2004 matchup. Robinson was not there in 2004 and Shaq beasted on the Spurs.

You realize Tony Parker was so untrustworthy in the 2003 Finals he was getting benched in favor of Speedy Claxton in the fourth quarter right???

And Manu was inconsistent his rookie year. He had his highs and lows throughout the regular season and playoffs.

 

[pmatic]

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

THEY WERE NOT IN THERE PRIMES.

Are you serious man? I'm not saying they have been erratic there whole careers, 02-03 Spurs, Manu and Parker were not legitimate second options yet, Robinson was old an no longer a legit second option...Duncan won that by himself.

Parker was already averaging 15ppg that year and he SHREDDED the lakers defense. Manu did the same.
Parker also outplayed prime Jason Kidd in the finals in 2003

THERE IS ALSO NO WAY THE 2003 SPURS BEAT THE LAKERS WITHOUT ROBINSON. That was some of the best defense ever played on Shaq.
You can see this very well if you watch the 2003 vs the 2004 matchup. Robinson was not there in 2004 and Shaq beasted on the Spurs.

You realize Tony Parker was so untrustworthy in the 2003 Finals he was getting benched in favor of Speedy Claxton in the fourth quarter right???

And Manu was inconsistent his rookie year. He had his highs and lows throughout the regular season and playoffs.