Malcolm X thread.

[i am knowledge]

I've been posting exerts from an old term paper, but I could talk brother Malcolm for days.  I actually got a chance to meet his daughter last year, she spoke at my university about how her father was an international man. 

My biggest issue is the way people perceive him because of his stance on violence.  I feel like King was a good guy, but there's no way I could have been with the non violence movement.  Like X, I believe that you have to be mentally ill to set and let someone beat on you because we are all equipped with the instinct of self-preservation.  Perhaps the non-violence movement was self-preservation in the long run, but at the end of the day, a man has the right to defend himself, and as John Locke, who Jefferson basically plagiarized said, when the government fails to uphold the law, it's the citizens job to dissolve the government and form a new one.  

People also have to put it in context.  Malcolm X came from the bottom, pretty much the lowest of the low.  He was a self made man who didn't even have a high school education.  Give that man King's upbringing and resources, and there's no telling where he would have reached.  However, I celebrate the level that he did reach despite his circumstances.  Because of where he came from, he had an ability to reach certain people that King just couldn't.  And in fact, his 'celebrity' was growing due to the fact that people were getting tired of the non-violent %$!+$*@!.  Like I posted before, the March in Washington was put on to persuade Congress to pass civil rights legislation, and a year had passed with nothing.  That's what led to the ballot or the bullet.

But here's a quote that really resonates with me.   \

They say Malcolm X challenged blacks not merely to integrateAmerica, but also to change it and to redefine how they saw themselves. Hechallenged all Americans to come to terms with a nation that preached libertyon one hand yet treated its darker citizens with violence and hatred on theother, they say. Malcolm X also openly articulated an anger among blacks: manyhad suffocated while hoping that things would change or despairing that theyever would.

Many black intellectuals say few black leaders today canmatch Malcolm X's ability to reach those at the bottom. His contemporary, theRev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., while revered by many black people, was achild of the middle class whose measured appeals to white morality and whoseintegrationist blueprint for change could only go so far, they say. What manyyoung people are seeking in Malcolm X is some reflection of themselves andtheir own experience as quintessential outsiders. So Malcolm X perseveres as aparadigm for the black underclass, capable of transcending economic frustrationsand societal dislocations.

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by PUSHA C

What up is an idiot

and torgriffith i THINK i get what you're saying but you're not putting it out there clear enough for the people who aren't as well versed in this subject. i'm not going to say what i think because i'm still not sure but please be more clear with your point.

I feel you and I think that's what is going on here. Plus I define each word I type so I know what I'm saying while people are still on the implied meaning of words versus going and seeing what each word, phrase, concept conveys.
What I'm saying is that MLK and MX are one in the same, but there methods are not the same. MLK wanted to change a system designed to be broken by the forefathers of this country. MX said we need new independence because clearly those that got the power are not trying to negotiate logically and work things out. 

The difference between the two ideas is that MX concepts were to start something new, while MLK was more along the lines of continuing the establishment hence why his endorsement deal has been so successful for the face of this "country". If this is any clearer...

That's more logical and thought out than what you posted earlier.  

However, you have to really think about this.  Is it easier to change the establishment once you are a part of the establishment(MLK) or as an outsider needing new independence(MX)

Also, you need to take into account that MLK's life was cut short so we cannot presume to know whether the things he accomplished during his life were just baby steps on the path to much greater ultimate goals. 

  

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by PUSHA C

What up is an idiot

and torgriffith i THINK i get what you're saying but you're not putting it out there clear enough for the people who aren't as well versed in this subject. i'm not going to say what i think because i'm still not sure but please be more clear with your point.

I feel you and I think that's what is going on here. Plus I define each word I type so I know what I'm saying while people are still on the implied meaning of words versus going and seeing what each word, phrase, concept conveys.
What I'm saying is that MLK and MX are one in the same, but there methods are not the same. MLK wanted to change a system designed to be broken by the forefathers of this country. MX said we need new independence because clearly those that got the power are not trying to negotiate logically and work things out. 

The difference between the two ideas is that MX concepts were to start something new, while MLK was more along the lines of continuing the establishment hence why his endorsement deal has been so successful for the face of this "country". If this is any clearer...

That's more logical and thought out than what you posted earlier.  

However, you have to really think about this.  Is it easier to change the establishment once you are a part of the establishment(MLK) or as an outsider needing new independence(MX)

Also, you need to take into account that MLK's life was cut short so we cannot presume to know whether the things he accomplished during his life were just baby steps on the path to much greater ultimate goals. 

  

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by RedMan

It is not a war on Blacks vs Whites its a war on the haves vs the have nots. Why do you think there were black slave owners? At the end of the day it is about money and if us Blacks really want to make a difference we should join forces with the low middle class and start boycotting things. Just image if all blacks and low middle class citizens decided to take all of they money out of Bank of America (I'm using BAC as an example). Just image if the people in NYC who complain about real estate prices being to high didn't pay their rent for 3 months straight the type of hell that would cause. Please stop thinking it is a black and white war it is a rich and poor war.

This...The destruction of the country's middle class more than ever has placed poor whites and black in the same boat, if this country is too ever see real change people will need to get over the constructions of georgraphy and class...The poor white farmer from substinance farmer in iowa ain't in much of a  different position than the poor black in the Chicago slums.  America essentially has turned into an oligarchy, a place ran by a select few who are extremely rich, and it don't matter if you white, latino , black, if you poor, America has essentially turned into a place where climbing the social ladder has become impossible.  While the  proverbial glass ceiling has been broken, this is a ploy, it keeps the idea of the American dream somewhat tangible for people, but the American dream is just that, a dream.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by RedMan

It is not a war on Blacks vs Whites its a war on the haves vs the have nots. Why do you think there were black slave owners? At the end of the day it is about money and if us Blacks really want to make a difference we should join forces with the low middle class and start boycotting things. Just image if all blacks and low middle class citizens decided to take all of they money out of Bank of America (I'm using BAC as an example). Just image if the people in NYC who complain about real estate prices being to high didn't pay their rent for 3 months straight the type of hell that would cause. Please stop thinking it is a black and white war it is a rich and poor war.

This...The destruction of the country's middle class more than ever has placed poor whites and black in the same boat, if this country is too ever see real change people will need to get over the constructions of georgraphy and class...The poor white farmer from substinance farmer in iowa ain't in much of a  different position than the poor black in the Chicago slums.  America essentially has turned into an oligarchy, a place ran by a select few who are extremely rich, and it don't matter if you white, latino , black, if you poor, America has essentially turned into a place where climbing the social ladder has become impossible.  While the  proverbial glass ceiling has been broken, this is a ploy, it keeps the idea of the American dream somewhat tangible for people, but the American dream is just that, a dream.

 

[bijald0331]

To me, the difference is that MX's theories sound good on paper but can never be executed while MLK was more pragmatic and at least made some headway. Litigation and direct action through civil disobedience spearheaded the progress seen in the 1960s, not acts of separatism.

 

[bijald0331]

To me, the difference is that MX's theories sound good on paper but can never be executed while MLK was more pragmatic and at least made some headway. Litigation and direct action through civil disobedience spearheaded the progress seen in the 1960s, not acts of separatism.

 

[pusha c]

so all airmaxpenny1 and RedMan get from this thread is the racist angle? we're talkin about two people, what they stood for and HOW they stood for it.

though to yalls point, it DEFINITELY IS and always will be black vs white. if you argue otherwise then you are blind/in denial. though your points are valid you cannot completely erase bigotry because its how all of this started

 

[pusha c]

so all airmaxpenny1 and RedMan get from this thread is the racist angle? we're talkin about two people, what they stood for and HOW they stood for it.

though to yalls point, it DEFINITELY IS and always will be black vs white. if you argue otherwise then you are blind/in denial. though your points are valid you cannot completely erase bigotry because its how all of this started

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by RedMan

It is not a war on Blacks vs Whites its a war on the haves vs the have nots. Why do you think there were black slave owners? At the end of the day it is about money and if us Blacks really want to make a difference we should join forces with the low middle class and start boycotting things. Just image if all blacks and low middle class citizens decided to take all of they money out of Bank of America (I'm using BAC as an example). Just image if the people in NYC who complain about real estate prices being to high didn't pay their rent for 3 months straight the type of hell that would cause. Please stop thinking it is a black and white war it is a rich and poor war.

This...The destruction of the country's middle class more than ever has placed poor whites and black in the same boat, if this country is too ever see real change people will need to get over the constructions of georgraphy and class...The poor white farmer from substinance farmer in iowa ain't in much of a  different position than the poor black in the Chicago slums.  America essentially has turned into an oligarchy, a place ran by a select few who are extremely rich, and it don't matter if you white, latino , black, if you poor, America has essentially turned into a place where climbing the social ladder has become impossible.  While the  proverbial glass ceiling has been broken, this is a ploy, it keeps the idea of the American dream somewhat tangible for people, but the American dream is just that, a dream.

This is truth. While everyone is caught up on race issues, this is the reality of MLK's "I have a dream speech". Everybody lumped up into one poor demographic. Some may interpret it as a level playing field, some may see it for what it is. Truth is scary, but it is what it is. So what's next for the country/ world after this phase of oligarchic policy?  

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by RedMan

It is not a war on Blacks vs Whites its a war on the haves vs the have nots. Why do you think there were black slave owners? At the end of the day it is about money and if us Blacks really want to make a difference we should join forces with the low middle class and start boycotting things. Just image if all blacks and low middle class citizens decided to take all of they money out of Bank of America (I'm using BAC as an example). Just image if the people in NYC who complain about real estate prices being to high didn't pay their rent for 3 months straight the type of hell that would cause. Please stop thinking it is a black and white war it is a rich and poor war.

This...The destruction of the country's middle class more than ever has placed poor whites and black in the same boat, if this country is too ever see real change people will need to get over the constructions of georgraphy and class...The poor white farmer from substinance farmer in iowa ain't in much of a  different position than the poor black in the Chicago slums.  America essentially has turned into an oligarchy, a place ran by a select few who are extremely rich, and it don't matter if you white, latino , black, if you poor, America has essentially turned into a place where climbing the social ladder has become impossible.  While the  proverbial glass ceiling has been broken, this is a ploy, it keeps the idea of the American dream somewhat tangible for people, but the American dream is just that, a dream.

This is truth. While everyone is caught up on race issues, this is the reality of MLK's "I have a dream speech". Everybody lumped up into one poor demographic. Some may interpret it as a level playing field, some may see it for what it is. Truth is scary, but it is what it is. So what's next for the country/ world after this phase of oligarchic policy?  

 

[i am knowledge]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

To me, the difference is that MX's theories sound good on paper but can never be executed while MLK was more pragmatic and at least made some headway. Litigation and direct action through civil disobedience spearheaded the progress seen in the 1960s, not acts of separatism.

Why couldn't they be executed?  Was the nation of America not born against insurmountable odds from a group of people that had international support, and the thirst for freedom?  I'm not saying that I'm 100 percent sure that had X's theories been realized that he would have been successful, but I do believe that with all my heart, had X's theories been applied the majority of Black people in America would have a better quality of life in 2010.

However, you have to really think about this.  Is it easier to change the establishment once you are a part of the establishment


Why spend all your time hoping someone will allow you into a restaurant that you can't even afford to eat in?  Malcolm wasn't totally against assimilation, although at one point he was, but he figured that assimilation should not be the first priority within the Black community.  He argued that Blacks need to control their political and economic capital, and stop spending all their time trying to convince a group of people that hated them that they were worthy of being accepted. 

And once Black folks got their stuff together it wouldn't be a matter of being accepted because the law tells you that you should, and in the case of possible assimilation, blacks would not have to depend on a group of people who had oppressed them for hundreds of years because they could depend on themselves.  In this case, X was really a conservative. 

 

[i am knowledge]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

To me, the difference is that MX's theories sound good on paper but can never be executed while MLK was more pragmatic and at least made some headway. Litigation and direct action through civil disobedience spearheaded the progress seen in the 1960s, not acts of separatism.

Why couldn't they be executed?  Was the nation of America not born against insurmountable odds from a group of people that had international support, and the thirst for freedom?  I'm not saying that I'm 100 percent sure that had X's theories been realized that he would have been successful, but I do believe that with all my heart, had X's theories been applied the majority of Black people in America would have a better quality of life in 2010.

However, you have to really think about this.  Is it easier to change the establishment once you are a part of the establishment


Why spend all your time hoping someone will allow you into a restaurant that you can't even afford to eat in?  Malcolm wasn't totally against assimilation, although at one point he was, but he figured that assimilation should not be the first priority within the Black community.  He argued that Blacks need to control their political and economic capital, and stop spending all their time trying to convince a group of people that hated them that they were worthy of being accepted. 

And once Black folks got their stuff together it wouldn't be a matter of being accepted because the law tells you that you should, and in the case of possible assimilation, blacks would not have to depend on a group of people who had oppressed them for hundreds of years because they could depend on themselves.  In this case, X was really a conservative. 

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by PUSHA C

so all airmaxpenny1 and RedMan get from this thread is the racist angle? we're talkin about two people, what they stood for and HOW they stood for it.

though to yalls point, it DEFINITELY IS and always will be black vs white. if you argue otherwise then you are blind/in denial. though your points are valid you cannot completely erase bigotry because its how all of this started

And that is they want.  They'll let y'all poor, %%+ ignorant fools harp on race and let that be the focus shielding y'all from the truth of the situation.  Same !#** they did with the confederacy, a lot of the soldiers who made up the confederacy weren't much better off than the slaves they were fighting to become in a sense, but at least they weren't black.  Until human beings can get over these difference which society highlights to keep y'all blind from the truth that lies in front of you than change will never come.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by PUSHA C

so all airmaxpenny1 and RedMan get from this thread is the racist angle? we're talkin about two people, what they stood for and HOW they stood for it.

though to yalls point, it DEFINITELY IS and always will be black vs white. if you argue otherwise then you are blind/in denial. though your points are valid you cannot completely erase bigotry because its how all of this started

And that is they want.  They'll let y'all poor, %%+ ignorant fools harp on race and let that be the focus shielding y'all from the truth of the situation.  Same !#** they did with the confederacy, a lot of the soldiers who made up the confederacy weren't much better off than the slaves they were fighting to become in a sense, but at least they weren't black.  Until human beings can get over these difference which society highlights to keep y'all blind from the truth that lies in front of you than change will never come.

 

[redman]

What are you talking about? X and MLK was about race and being treated with respect and equal to our white counter parts. What you fail to realize us black people have regressed BIG time. Instead of worry about what the white man is doing us Blacks should take control of our destiny by hitting them where it hurts. As soon as we stopped riding the buses things changed. You know what we should do this February us Blacks should not spend a single penny at any establishment that promotes Black History month. I don't know about you but I celebrate black history everyday instead of the month I am told I should celebrate it. I would take it further but I am on my BB and it is hard as hell to reread everything I have typed but when I get home tonight I will expand my views even further.

 

[redman]

What are you talking about? X and MLK was about race and being treated with respect and equal to our white counter parts. What you fail to realize us black people have regressed BIG time. Instead of worry about what the white man is doing us Blacks should take control of our destiny by hitting them where it hurts. As soon as we stopped riding the buses things changed. You know what we should do this February us Blacks should not spend a single penny at any establishment that promotes Black History month. I don't know about you but I celebrate black history everyday instead of the month I am told I should celebrate it. I would take it further but I am on my BB and it is hard as hell to reread everything I have typed but when I get home tonight I will expand my views even further.

 

[pusha c]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by PUSHA C

so all airmaxpenny1 and RedMan get from this thread is the racist angle? we're talkin about two people, what they stood for and HOW they stood for it.

though to yalls point, it DEFINITELY IS and always will be black vs white. if you argue otherwise then you are blind/in denial. though your points are valid you cannot completely erase bigotry because its how all of this started

And that is they want.  They'll let y'all poor, %%+ ignorant fools harp on race and let that be the focus shielding y'all from the truth of the situation.  Same !#** they did with the confederacy, a lot of the soldiers who made up the confederacy weren't much better off than the slaves they were fighting to become in a sense, but at least they weren't black.  Until human beings can get over these difference which society highlights to keep y'all blind from the truth that lies in front of you than change will never come.

nah see you got me f'd up... i ain't trippin/dwellin cause this is how the system is... ain't !+%@ i can do about it, it is what it is. you seriously think that racism is dead and its no longer an issue? that's a whole different discussion young.

we were talking about the METHODS of mlk and x then yall come in here wit the it ain't about race stance which is pure bullish.

its a mindstate of superiority/inferiority that, I BELIEVE, will always be in America since ITS WHAT WE WERE FOUNDED ON! class is another different convo but i agree with your point on that but the fact that yall were tryin to say it isn't a race thing just rubbed me the wrong way. maybe i inferred things from your statements and correct me if i'm wrong but that's where i'm coming from my brothers

 

[pusha c]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by PUSHA C

so all airmaxpenny1 and RedMan get from this thread is the racist angle? we're talkin about two people, what they stood for and HOW they stood for it.

though to yalls point, it DEFINITELY IS and always will be black vs white. if you argue otherwise then you are blind/in denial. though your points are valid you cannot completely erase bigotry because its how all of this started

And that is they want.  They'll let y'all poor, %%+ ignorant fools harp on race and let that be the focus shielding y'all from the truth of the situation.  Same !#** they did with the confederacy, a lot of the soldiers who made up the confederacy weren't much better off than the slaves they were fighting to become in a sense, but at least they weren't black.  Until human beings can get over these difference which society highlights to keep y'all blind from the truth that lies in front of you than change will never come.

nah see you got me f'd up... i ain't trippin/dwellin cause this is how the system is... ain't !+%@ i can do about it, it is what it is. you seriously think that racism is dead and its no longer an issue? that's a whole different discussion young.

we were talking about the METHODS of mlk and x then yall come in here wit the it ain't about race stance which is pure bullish.

its a mindstate of superiority/inferiority that, I BELIEVE, will always be in America since ITS WHAT WE WERE FOUNDED ON! class is another different convo but i agree with your point on that but the fact that yall were tryin to say it isn't a race thing just rubbed me the wrong way. maybe i inferred things from your statements and correct me if i'm wrong but that's where i'm coming from my brothers

 

[keithdajuiceman]

Mlk and MX fought for the same cause just went about it differently, Martin knew that if the media could catch people doing hate crimes on blacks it would open Americas eyes, that's why they did not fight back with violence because it wouldn't help the cause....if it wasn't for them none violent protests and marches there is no telling where we would be.


I do side with Malcolm though with not being pushed around, taking advantage of, and taking beatings....

I always wondered though, how would Malcolm progress if he was in the south, with his militant view of not taking %@#@ from racist white people

 

[bijald0331]

There is nothing executable about MX's theories of separatism. All black aren't in the same boat. The black middle class has grown steadily... what is their reason for revolting? How can you compare 13 colonies coming together and revolting with this situation is beyond me. All black people aren't crying out for equality. It isn't 1950. A lot has changed. People think everything is still the same

You know what's a big problem to me? Kids thinking it's cool to quote Tupac dissing MLK like in this thread

 

[bijald0331]

There is nothing executable about MX's theories of separatism. All black aren't in the same boat. The black middle class has grown steadily... what is their reason for revolting? How can you compare 13 colonies coming together and revolting with this situation is beyond me. All black people aren't crying out for equality. It isn't 1950. A lot has changed. People think everything is still the same

You know what's a big problem to me? Kids thinking it's cool to quote Tupac dissing MLK like in this thread

 

[keithdajuiceman]

Mlk and MX fought for the same cause just went about it differently, Martin knew that if the media could catch people doing hate crimes on blacks it would open Americas eyes, that's why they did not fight back with violence because it wouldn't help the cause....if it wasn't for them none violent protests and marches there is no telling where we would be.


I do side with Malcolm though with not being pushed around, taking advantage of, and taking beatings....

I always wondered though, how would Malcolm progress if he was in the south, with his militant view of not taking %@#@ from racist white people

 

[keithdajuiceman]

Mlk and MX fought for the same cause just went about it differently, Martin knew that if the media could catch people doing hate crimes on blacks it would open Americas eyes, that's why they did not fight back with violence because it wouldn't help the cause....if it wasn't for them none violent protests and marches there is no telling where we would be.


I do side with Malcolm though with not being pushed around, taking advantage of, and taking beatings....

I always wondered though, how would Malcolm progress if he was in the south, with his militant view of not taking +@%# from racist white people

 

[keithdajuiceman]

Mlk and MX fought for the same cause just went about it differently, Martin knew that if the media could catch people doing hate crimes on blacks it would open Americas eyes, that's why they did not fight back with violence because it wouldn't help the cause....if it wasn't for them none violent protests and marches there is no telling where we would be.


I do side with Malcolm though with not being pushed around, taking advantage of, and taking beatings....

I always wondered though, how would Malcolm progress if he was in the south, with his militant view of not taking +@%# from racist white people