**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins

[rocketqueen]

Yes.

Nance knowing his limitations and embracing being a key role player >>>>> Julius thinking he's Draymond Green.

I might actually cry tears of joy the day I see him hunting for stats on another team.

And let's not even mention his ****** body language. Dude needs to go.

I have to agree with this. Not trying to do too much is appreciated when the team just needs to play your role.

 

[whiplashtw03]

A very interesting thing about Larry Nance Jr and why I think he's a better fit for the Lakers than Randle. I'm not saying Nance is the better player overall because Randle has skills that Nance frankly doesn't have, but imo Nance fits what the Lakers are doing better than Randle does.

Nance is a player that can be successful without plays having to be called for him. He thrives without the ball, can score with the ball, is constantly active on both ends of the floor, and is a more effective two-way player than Randle that affects possessions on a more consistent basis in ways Randle doesn't.

A perfect example was last season (as I pointed out earlier). Byron demoted Randle to the bench for a few games and inserted Nance into the starting lineup with Kobe. Nance responded by averaging a double-double - almost 12 ppg and 10.5 rpg. His production was essentially the exact same as Randle's, but more consistent and with a far greater energy level - in fewer minutes played per game!

If you don't call plays for Randle, if Randle doesn't have the ball in his hands, he disappears completely. Same thing happened to Randle in the NCAA championship game and in Kentucky's multiple losses to Florida that same year. In pivotal games, Randle disappeared.

Nance, meanwhile, can still be effective if he only scores 5-8 points because he will give you everything else - deflections, tipped balls for extra possessions, blocks, 50/50 balls, plus a bonus - highlight reel dunks to build/sustain momentum and change the nature of the game. 

In fact, Nance has almost as many deflections and loose balls recovered as Randle yet Nance has played half the minutes (676 min) that Randle (1,285 min) has played this entire season. That speaks volumes.

 

[dceja]

Dude just be quiet this is the team we have right now like it or not...embrace it or just stop being a fan until we start winning again...geez man let it go

 

[wavycrocket]

A very interesting thing about Larry Nance Jr and why I think he's a better fit for the Lakers than Randle. I'm not saying Nance is the better player overall because Randle has skills that Nance frankly doesn't have, but imo Nance fits what the Lakers are doing better than Randle does.

Nance is a player that can be successful without plays having to be called for him. He thrives without the ball, can score with the ball, is constantly active on both ends of the floor, and is a more effective two-way player than Randle that affects possessions on a more consistent basis in ways Randle doesn't.

A perfect example was last season (as I pointed out earlier). Byron demoted Randle to the bench for a few games and inserted Nance into the starting lineup with Kobe. Nance responded by averaging a double-double - almost 12 ppg and 10.5 rpg. His production was essentially the exact same as Randle's, but more consistent and with a far greater energy level - in fewer minutes played per game!

If you don't call plays for Randle, if Randle doesn't have the ball in his hands, he disappears completely. Same thing happened to Randle in the NCAA championship game and in Kentucky's multiple losses to Florida that same year. In pivotal games, Randle disappeared.

Nance, meanwhile, can still be effective if he only scores 5-8 points because he will give you everything else - deflections, tipped balls for extra possessions, blocks, 50/50 balls, plus a bonus - highlight reel dunks to build/sustain momentum and change the nature of the game. 

In fact, Nance has almost as many deflections and loose balls recovered as Randle yet Nance has played half the minutes (676 min) that Randle (1,285 min) has played this entire season. That speaks volumes.

Real talk.

How can y'all even hate on this?

 

[essential1]

Why D’Angelo Russell’s impact goes beyond the box score
Despite his shooting struggles, the Lakers sorely miss their 20-year-old point guard.
by Gary Kester@garykester Jan 26, 2017, 8:23am PST

Back in the 2015 NBA Draft, the Los Angeles Lakers surprised NBA fans everywhere when they selected D’Angelo Russell over Jahlil Okafor with the No. 2 overall pick, the highest selection of the franchise since they took James Worthy with the top pick in the 1982 NBA Draft.

Coming with the territory of being the second pick, Russell inherited the expectation of becoming the next face of the franchise after perhaps the Lakers’ greatest player of all-time in Kobe Bryant. On top of being tasked to fill seemingly impossible shoes left by Bryant, Russell has some additional convincing to do in the eyes of many Lakers fans that wanted Okafor to be the pick, despite the latter’s numbers taking a dive in his second year with the Philadelphia 76ers.

There is no question that the start to Russell’s pro career has been turbulent at times. He has endured his fair share of ups and downs in each of his first two seasons thus far. While Russell’s basic numbers have improved marginally, his sophomore campaign has been clouded by shooting struggles and knee injuries that have kept him out of 15 of the team’s 39 games to this point. But to fully examine the 20-year-old’s impact on this year’s squad, context must be provided by digging deeper than the traditional stat line.

With Russell’s individual, more traditional numbers, it is important to note that he has actually logged less playing time this season under head coach Luke Walton with 26.3 minutes per game. When looking at his per 36 numbers for both seasons, his production has increased to 19.6 points (+2.8 from his rookie year), six assists (+2.2) and 5.1 rebounds (+0.7). Only one player in NBA history surpassed those combined averages per 36 minutes at the age of 20: LeBron James (per basketball-reference).

Just for fun and further comparison for those that like to look merely at traditional numbers, Bryant averaged 18.9 points, 3.6 assists and five rebounds per 36 minutes at the age of 20, which was his third season. Of course, in no way should anyone expect Russell to become the player Bryant was, but those numbers serve as a reminder that even for some of the all-time great players, they needed a few years to figure everything out.

This year’s Lakers have made it clear that young players need time and the learning curve can appear to be quite steep. A surprising 7-5 start triggered a premature spike in expectations in 2016-17, but a record of 9-28 since then has forced a crash back to reality. There is nothing wrong with that, though, given the amount of youth that is a part of the normal rotation, combined with the games missed due to injury. In Russell’s case, the team’s record plummeted in his absence. So far this season, the Lakers are 13-21 (.382) in games that Russell started and 3-13 (.186 in the games that he has missed.

As you might expect, the Lakers’ respective performances with and without Russell are reflected in more categories than just wins and losses. With Russell on the court this season, seven of his 13 teammates (Russell and Metta World Peace have not been in the same lineup at any point) are shooting 50 percent or higher. When he is off the floor, only Larry Nance, Jr. and Thomas Robinson are above 50 percent (per nbawowy.com).

The league average for effective shooting percentage this season is currently at 51.1 percent. With Russell on the court, eight different Lakers are right at that mark or higher. Without him on the floor, that number is cut in half. In terms of points per possession, nine of his teammates average over a full point per (three of the other four are between 0.95 and 0.9 with him on the court and only five fit that criteria when he is off.

Many different metrics show a trend of Los Angeles performing better when Russell is on the court, which simply supports the notion that he is making his teammates better this year. Here are his advanced numbers in each of his two seasons, which show an increase in his usage and assist percentage while his turnover percentage has taken a slight dip (via basketball-reference).


Also of note, Russell’s plus/minus net per 100 possessions this season is +2.0, which was at -5.1 last year.

Another key difference from Year One to Year Two is the build of each roster. This season’s roster is obviously more talented than a year ago, but one thing that was intriguing heading in was the amount of lineups that could be utilized with Russell. With the additions of Brandon Ingram and Luol Deng, the Lakers have two more players that can play multiple positions and potentially thrive in small-ball lineups.

Russell was expected to be significantly involved with some of the more versatile lineups, but has instead been a bit handcuffed to the four players he joins in the regular starting lineup (Nick Young, Luol Deng, Julius Randle and Timofey Mozgov). In his 894 minutes played this season, 401.9 have been played with the starting five. Granted, the usual starters have a net rating of 7.6 per 100 possessions, but the next most used lineup involving Russell has logged 50.4 minutes of playing time. Also, the starters boast just one player above league average in three-point field goal percentage, which limits the floor spacing at times. The fact that they have been so effective has certainly been surprising, especially since the lineup started the year so poorly while the bench did most of the heavy lifting.

As the season has progressed, Russell has become the motor that drives the starters forward. The starting lineup has been a disaster in the time that Russell has missed. When replaced by Jose Calderon, the starters have a net rating of -28.2 per 100 possessions. With Ingram taking Russell’s starting spot, the lineup’s net rating plummets even further to -37.4.

Russell has been a part of 96 different lineup combinations this season, although the amount of time with various lineups needs to be increased by Walton to give his lead guard more options. For example, the lineup I was most excited to see this year was Russell with Jordan Clarkson, Ingram, Randle and Nance, Jr. But so for this year, that unit has been on the floor for just 6.6 total minutes. It will be interesting to see if Walton opens things up a little more when Russell returns.

Now, there are certainly justified qualms with Russell’s game to this point of his career. He absolutely has to get better defensively and his focus on both ends of the floor tends to come and go. However, when he is locked in, his game is a lot of fun and his playmaking clearly makes the Lakers a better team.

While many fans anxiously wait for him to make the leap towards being a bonafide star in the NBA, it is important to remember that Russell is just 20 years old in his first under Walton and this system. He appears to already be on the right track to having a quality that the vast majority of star players have in common: they make their teammates better. That’s a strong foundation that can be built upon.

The hope is that in due time, the rest of his game will continue to develop. Whether you believe in him or not, his ability to create offense for himself and for others will be vital for the Lakers moving forward. While some still clamor for a “true point guard,” the league now exhibits extraordinary, nontraditional talents at the position that are dominating the league, such as Stephen Curry and Russell Westbrook.

Russell is far from making that level of impact, but this season we are starting to see the more unique, balanced offensive attack of scoring and distributing that sold the Lakers on him back in June of 2015. Only time will tell if he is able to put it all together some day, but even with his shooting struggles this season, he is still finding ways to make a sizable impact. That should have Lakers fans excited for his future.

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2017/1/26/14381016/la-lakers-dangelo-russell-starting-lineup

 

[MVP]

If I see per 36 one more time...

 

[whiplashtw03]

But yet Russell's starting unit is consistently being outscored and outplayed by the bench night in and night out.

Funny though how the author conveniently left out that glaring fact.

And funny how the author made no mention of all the times Luke has benched Hollywood in the fourth quarter for lack of effort and energy.

It's not all about stats. Stats are not the end all be all. PER, plus minus, etc do NOT tell the entire story. If you don't understand that concept, you don't truly know the game of basketball.

 

[whiplashtw03]

Dude just be quiet this is the team we have right now like it or not...embrace it or just stop being a fan until we start winning again...geez man let it go

Thanks for providing that insight

 

[fayetnam]

Lmao dude

Court contributions are quantified into all these stats
How can you deny this?

And most lineups with Dlo actually outscore their opponents (positive point differential per 100 possessions)

Judge him on effort all you want, but numbers don't lie

 

[moonman818]

Lmao dude

Court contributions are quantified into all these stats
How can you deny this?

And most lineups with Dlo actually outscore their opponents (positive point differential per 100 possessions)

Judge him on effort all you want, but numbers don't lie

But dem eyebrows doe...

 

[dceja]

Thanks for providing that insight

Ironic response

 

[whiplashtw03]

Yet damn near every game the bench outscores DLo's starting unit. These numbers don't lie either.

And how many times has Luke benched DLo in the fourth quarter this year again? What we've seen with our own eyes don't lie either.

Finally, how can you deny DLo's lackluster effort levels and piss poor energy level he displays on the court night in night out? That's don't lie either.

It's not all about the stats. DLo's numbers are respectable, don't get me wrong. 14 ppg, 4 boards, and 4.5 assists isn't bad at all. But here's the kicker - what makes a complete basketball player who effectively contributes to the team entails having BOTH the numbers and the intangibles. DLo is missing the other parts of the game that can make him a completely balanced basketball player who can HELP LEAD this team to success.

Look at Brook Lopez. Dude averages 20 ppg. But why do the Nets continue to be bottom feeders? Because this talented 7-footer doesn't rebound, doesn't block shots, and doesn't protect the paint. So how effectively is Lopez really playing? Is he really affecting the outcome of games on a consistent basis and being the type of player his team needs in order for the Nets to be successful?

Hell no, because Lopez doesn't possess the intangibles and he doesn't play with max effort each game. Dude is one-dimensional, like DLo has been exhibiting thus far.

For all the points he scores, Lopez for the life of him can't get on the All-Star team in a conference whose best centers would be stomped on daily if they played in the 90-00s. lol

 

[whiplashtw03]

 

Thanks for providing that insight

Ironic response

Hahaha...you obviously missed what I've been discussing all day regarding Randle and Nance. If you don't think what I said about Nance in comparison to Randle is relevant insight, then you my friend need to stop smoking that Prop 64 and get your act together.

Tell me something...describe to me the types of things about Ingram's skill set that you think will be beneficial for his game moving forward. Be specific with the insight.

 

[essential1]

Nets are also a poorly run franchise that decides to sabotage themselves every year.

First 3 years, they stunk... Devin Harris was their second best player.
4th year Deron played 12 games
5th year Brook played 5 games

6th year... Added Joe Johnson, and they won 49 games, particularly only 49, because Avery Johnson stunk it up and had them at 14-14 after they started 11-4. PJ Carlisimo had them close out the season 35-19

7th year... Brook played only 17 games, they won only 44.... Also the year that they mortgaged the next decade, maybe even a decade and a half of their franchise for 36 year old Paul Pierce and 37 year old Kevin Garnett

From there it has gone all down hill..


While I give you some acknowledgement that Brook Lopez will never lead a team to a title, not saying he couldn't have been part of 1 with a smarter franchise, but he just won't, it's how his career will play out...Like the many good players who come and go without titles... Using him as an example for D'Angelo is awful because it ignores the context in which the Brooklyn Nets exist.

 

[whiplashtw03]

Nets are also a poorly run franchise that decides to sabotage themselves every year.

First 3 years, they stunk... Devin Harris was their second best player.
4th year Deron played 12 games
5th year Brook played 5 games

6th year... Added Joe Johnson, and they won 49 games, particularly only 49, because Avery Johnson stunk it up and had them at 14-14 after they started 11-4. PJ Carlisimo had them close out the season 35-19

7th year... Brook played only 17 games, they won only 44.... Also the year that they mortgaged the next decade, maybe even a decade and a half of their franchise for 36 year old Paul Pierce and 37 year old Kevin Garnett

From there it has gone all down hill..


While I give you some acknowledgement that Brook Lopez will never lead a team to a title, not saying he couldn't have been part of 1 with a smarter franchise, but he just won't, it's how his career will play out...Like the many good players who come and go without titles... Using him as an example for D'Angelo is awful because it ignores the context in which the Brooklyn Nets exist.

You just don't get it man. 

Forget what types of players Lopez has been surrounded by. That's not the point.

The point is: LOPEZ DOES NOT POSSESS A MULTI-DIMENSIONAL SKILL SET and is why he isn't as effective as he should be as an individual player who his team counts on to be the focal point of each game.

Does Lopez rebound? Better yet, what's his offensive and defensive rebounding stats compared to players 6'7" and taller. There are forwards who are more active than him and make a bigger impact.

Does Lopez intimidate anybody in the paint? Opposing guards penetrate the lane against the Nets AT WILL man. You been watching their games?

Does Lopez make his teammates better and pass the ball? He averages 1.5 apg for his career, which pales in comparison to All-Star centers and bigs in the league such as Cousins, Gasol brothers, etc.

And the Nets AND the Lakers BOTH have sucked in recent years therefore it's certainly within context. Get a clue.

 

[youngwolf]

Something else that needs to be considered is Zubac. If he turns out to be as good as a lot of people (including myself) think he'll be, then you have to ask who would he be better paired with, Nance or Julius?

I'm taking the guy that can affect the game without needing to dominate the ball, and that isn't afraid to do the dirty work.

 

[whiplashtw03]

 

 

Something else that needs to be considered is Zubac. If he turns out to be as good as a lot of people (including myself) think he'll be, then you have to ask who would he be better paired with, Nance or Julius?

I'm taking the guy that can affect the game without needing to dominate the ball, and that isn't afraid to do the dirty work.

Definitely. Nance would be the better fit for Zubac because Zubac has shown he can score. It won't be long (I'd say 2-3 years) before Zubac begins putting up 17 pts and 10 boards a game consistently.

I look at the Zubac and Nance tandem a little bit similar to how Gasol and Odom worked together on the floor in the sense that Odom was largely effective off the ball and that you didn't need to call plays for Odom in order for Lamar to get buckets, offensive rebounds, put backs, and cause havoc against the opposing team.

Another solid example is how Horry played next to Olajuwon, Duncan, and Shaq. Or how Haslem played with Shaq during the Heat's title run. Or to a lesser extent, how Larry Nance Sr. played next to center Brad Daugherty during the Cavs of the late 80s that made the playoffs year after year.

 

[essential1]

No the context doesn't fit. Really at all.

You can't surround a guy with garbage. Or when you do their entire window is impacted by injuries and compare it to young guys in their 2nd years.

Basically all you have proven was you can't surround prospects with ****. Or trade picks for older players. That's basically all you have proven by trying to compare Brook Lopez with D'Angelo Russell.

Thanks for that rousing and insightful commentary on basketball.

We'd be better off trying to compare ducks with sandwiches.

 

[IATT]

View media item 2315043

 

[Lizakers]

Julius has pneumonia

 

[alexody]

View media item 2315143

 

[pmatic]

Miami and Sacto.

 

[whiplashtw03]

No the context doesn't fit. Really at all.

You can't surround a guy with garbage. Or when you do their entire window is impacted by injuries and compare it to young guys in their 2nd years.

Basically all you have proven was you can't surround prospects with ****. Or trade picks for older players. That's basically all you have proven by trying to compare Brook Lopez with D'Angelo Russell.

Thanks for that rousing and insightful commentary on basketball.

We'd be better off trying to compare ducks with sandwiches.

You still don't get it.

Tell me....what am I comparing between Lopez and Russell? Do you actually know what it is about the two players I'm comparing or am I comparing both players' respective teams?

I'll give you a few minutes to go back to my previous posts and think about it

 

[whiplashtw03]

Miami and Sacto.

You talkin bout Dragic going to Sactown?

 

[MVP]

Miami and Sacto.

Minny too. They all are a few more wins from getting off the tank watch. But gaddamn the Suns are just terrible.