IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[Jordan8]

Have you ever seen Oscar Robinson play?

Off the top of your head can you name the years he was in the league?

Hakeem is a top 7 player?  Really?  How many years was he the best player in the league?  2?  3?  Was he ever even the best player, "unanimously"?  But he's 7th best ever overall.

And lol at Magic at 2.  I'm surprised you didn't throw Jerry West or Bob Cousy in there.

Nope to your Oscar questions....I do know he averaged damn near a triple double and was the "Lebron" before Lebron and like I said he seems to show up an everyone's top 10

Hakeem is def a top 7 player. I never really heard anybody argue different. He had a 10+ year run and played on subpar teams in case you're questioning "ring count" He also carried teams on his back. Twice to rings. Not to mention he holds the record for most 5x5s which will probably never be broken.

And just wow at the Magic disrespect

 

[CP1708]

[quote name="CP"]Why everyone examine Kobe's career detail by detail to discredit him, but put ZERO effort into other players?

Uummm, because "I don't think he's in the 5-10 range just because I don't think so" is kind of weak.

The detailed analysis uncomfortable or something? someone points out that he has lead the league in FGA a number of times but only has 1 scoring title, you wish stuff like that were just unmentioned? I wish people wouldn't talk about Kidd's FG% throughout his career, but it's valid to bring up.[/quote]

Not at all, my point is all this work on Kobe, no one has bothered to examine the others. Which is why I mention Magic previously, and here Bird, Dunc and Cap. They just get accepted, Kobe gets scrutinized stat by stat, title by title, valid all defense, not valid all defense, etc.

 

[CP1708]

I don't have Hakeem top 7. But he is top 10 imo.

 

[nako xl]

Have you ever seen Oscar Robinson play?

Off the top of your head can you name the years he was in the league?

Hakeem is a top 7 player?  Really?  How many years was he the best player in the league?  2?  3?  Was he ever even the best player, "unanimously"?  But he's 7th best ever overall.

And lol at Magic at 2.  I'm surprised you didn't throw Jerry West or Bob Cousy in there.

Nope to your Oscar questions....I do know he averaged damn near a triple double and was the "Lebron" before Lebron and like I said he seems to show up an everyone's top 10

Hakeem is def a top 7 player. I never really heard anybody argue different. He had a 10+ year run and played on subpar teams in case you're questioning "ring count" He also carried teams on his back. Twice to rings. Not to mention he holds the record for most 5x5s which will probably never be broken.

And just wow at the Magic disrespect

not disrespect.  he isn't the 2nd best player ever.

not statistically and not skill wise.  he's def top 5-10. 

but my point is you said unanimously.  it isn't unanimous.  by any definition of the word.

 

[Jordan8]

Hakeem higher than Duncan and Shaq?

Hakeem was only great for like 3 years, granted he won 2 championships during that time.

Kobe got 2 rings by himself like Hakeem and has been great for more seasons.

Duncan has 4 championships over Hakeem's 2 and he was again great for a longer period of time than Hakeem.

Same with Shaq

I really think Hakeem is overrated....maybe I need to look again but he wasn't a top 3 player in the NBA for a long time. For much of his career Ewing , Shaq and Robinson were considered better

Dream did more with much less than people give him credit for. He was "great" for much longer also. His stats prove it.

His early 90 run was just his peak but he was great before then also

 

[Jordan8]

not disrespect.  he isn't the 2nd best player ever.

not statistically and not skill wise.  he's def top 5-10. 

but my point is you said unanimously.  it isn't unanimous.  by any definition of the word.

I said its not in any real order since some have it in a different order but the same 5-7 names keep showing up regardless of order.

 

[deuce king]

I'm trying to figure how a guy who is "suppose" to be so great, and played for now 17 years in the league so far has only been able to muster up 1 NBA Most Valuable Player award. Top 5.........not a chance in hell.

 

[denni5themenace]

I'm trying to figure how a guy who is "suppose" to be so great, and played for now 17 years in the league so far has only been able to muster up 1 NBA Most Valuable Player award. Top 5.........not a chance in hell.

right? shaq nor hakeem deserve to be top 5. overrated

 

[ohmygosher]

2× NBA Finals MVP (1994–1995)
NBA Most Valuable Player (1994)
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1993–1994)
2x NBA rebounding leader (1989-1990)
3× NBA blocks leader (1990-1991, 1993)
6× All-NBA First Team (1987–1989, 1993–1994, 1997)

vs

2× NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (200
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
10× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2012)

I left out All-Star cause it's a popularity contest and championships because that's a team achievement

You also left out league MVP, all star MVP, and first team all defense nods. What's the reason for that?

I really don't understand your reasoning for all star selections either.

 

[sea manup]

You also left out league MVP, all star MVP, and first team all defense nods. What's the reason for that?

I really don't understand your reasoning for all star selections either.

kobe has more of them so they dont count

 

[jua17oi3]

Overrated

 

[Deleted member 37467]

LOL @ Hakeem only being great for 3 years.

I'm speechless.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

[quote name="CP"]Why everyone examine Kobe's career detail by detail to discredit him, but put ZERO effort into other players?

Uummm, because "I don't think he's in the 5-10 range just because I don't think so" is kind of weak.

The detailed analysis uncomfortable or something? someone points out that he has lead the league in FGA a number of times but only has 1 scoring title, you wish stuff like that were just unmentioned? I wish people wouldn't talk about Kidd's FG% throughout his career, but it's valid to bring up.

Not at all, my point is all this work on Kobe, no one has bothered to examine the others. Which is why I mention Magic previously, and here Bird, Dunc and Cap. They just get accepted, Kobe gets scrutinized stat by stat, title by title, valid all defense, not valid all defense, etc.[/quote]

You don't do it and you're a reason person for the most part but every Kobe fan I actually know in real life thinks the 2nd or 3rd best player ever.

If you don't agree with them you're a hater.

To me a player's greatness speaks on its own. My family is from Michigan and my Dad is a Piston fan. I grew up hating Jordan and the Lakers. However I have no issue with Jordan's greatness it just was what it was. My Dad still thinks Kareem is the greatest ever and I like I mentioned before he raised me to hate the Lakers.

One massive issue that I have with Kobe and his "rank" is that IMO he has ever been on a team that won a playoff series they weren't supposed to. All the players I rank above him did.

You mention Tim Duncan. He won a championship with Avery Johnson as a starter.

You mention Kareem IMO his collegiate career is included as part of his greatness.

 

[quik1987]

2× NBA Finals MVP (1994–1995)
NBA Most Valuable Player (1994)
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1993–1994)
2x NBA rebounding leader (1989-1990)
3× NBA blocks leader (1990-1991, 1993)
6× All-NBA First Team (1987–1989, 1993–1994, 1997)

vs

2× NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (200
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
10× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2012)

I left out All-Star cause it's a popularity contest and championships because that's a team achievement

You also left out league MVP, all star MVP, and first team all defense nods. What's the reason for that?

I really don't understand your reasoning for all star selections either.

 

[Bert.]

didnt even know this thread was 150 pages

damn

 

[ohmygosher]

2× NBA Finals MVP (1994–1995)
NBA Most Valuable Player (1994)
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1993–1994)
2x NBA rebounding leader (1989-1990)
3× NBA blocks leader (1990-1991, 1993)
6× All-NBA First Team (1987–1989, 1993–1994, 1997)

vs

2× NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (200
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
10× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2012)

I left out All-Star cause it's a popularity contest and championships because that's a team achievement

You also left out league MVP, all star MVP, and first team all defense nods. What's the reason for that?

I really don't understand your reasoning for all star selections either.

Must've missed that. But you didn't answer the other two.

And I didn't say that I didn't know what your reasoning was, I said I didn't understand it. The best players get selected for it. I could see if Jeremy Linn was constantly making the squad, but he's not. So I don't understand your reasoning.

 

[quik1987]

The All-Star game is a side show exhibition game where the most popular players don't always give their best efforts and players play for nothing.

Where Shaq gets to exhibit his dribbling prowess and alley oops > jumpshots.

What does being MVP of it really mean?

 

[quik1987]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...rove-hes-the-most-overrated-player-in-the-nba

http://asubstituteforwar.wordpress....ryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8595253/nba-kobe-bryant-joakim-noah-overrated-defenders


There was a time when Bryant was a legitimately outstanding defender, anchoring the Lakers' first Phil Jackson-coached dynasty as a true two-way terror. In the 1999-2000 regular season and the 2001 playoffs, the Lakers had a pair of the best team defensive showings ever with Bryant as their top wing defender. In the 2004 playoffs, L.A.'s defense was 12 points better per 100 possessions when Kobe was on the court. During that time, Bryant racked up five consecutive (and well-deserved) All-Defense nods, three of which placed him on the first team.

But from that point on, there hasn't been a lot of evidence suggesting that Bryant has even been a good defender, much less one of the NBA's best.

In 2004-05, Kobe logged 40.7 minutes per game for one of the 40 worst defensive teams in league history, with the Lakers' defense somehow getting 2.4 points worse when he was on the floor. That touched off an eight-year stretch over which Bryant still garnered seven All-Defense selections despite the Lakers being little more than an average defensive team -- and actually playing one point per 100 possessions worse defensively with Bryant in the game.

While not exactly on the same level as Derek Jeter's host of ill-gotten Gold Gloves, Bryant's annual All-Defense recognition seems more and more like a legacy pick with each passing year. Adjusted plus/minus suggests he's no more than an average defender at this stage of his career, and at age 34 his best defensive days are likely in the rearview mirror. Bryant ranks among the NBA's all-time great players, and is still one of its best offensive threats, but his defensive impact has been overstated for years.

 

[ohmygosher]

^

Did he get the nod or not?

The All-Star game is a side show exhibition game where the most popular players don't always give their best efforts and players play for nothing.

Where Shaq gets to exhibit his dribbling prowess and alley oops > jumpshots.

What does being MVP of it really mean?

This only applies to the first half. Come second half, it's a whole different story. Even that bum Lebron is out there putting more effort into it than he did in the '11 finals.

 

[quik1987]

^

Did he get the nod or not?

The All-Star game is a side show exhibition game where the most popular players don't always give their best efforts and players play for nothing.

Where Shaq gets to exhibit his dribbling prowess and alley oops > jumpshots.

What does being MVP of it really mean?

This only applies to the first half. Come second half, it's a whole different story. Even that bum Lebron is out there putting more effort into it than he did in the '11 finals.

So what's the value in being MVP of a game where the first half doesn't matter?

 

[onetrust]

at Kobe fans wanting to count All Star game appearances and acting like Hakeem was just "another" center. Funny how this Hakeem guy who you Kobe fans don't think is that great gets asked by...oh wait, YOUR IDOL KOBE, to teach him a thing or two.

at the disrespect for The Dream. This dude went and won a ring with no other star player against a VERY talented younger team while your boy Kobe struggling to make the playoffs with Dwight and Nash.

So what's the value in being MVP of a game where the first half doesn't matter?

Because it's Kobe and they want to give him as much accolades as they can. at really trying to count all star games.

 

[ohmygosher]

^

When greats are introduced, and they list their accomplishments, are All Star nods not included?

^

Did he get the nod or not?

The All-Star game is a side show exhibition game where the most popular players don't always give their best efforts and players play for nothing.

Where Shaq gets to exhibit his dribbling prowess and alley oops > jumpshots.

What does being MVP of it really mean?

This only applies to the first half. Come second half, it's a whole different story. Even that bum Lebron is out there putting more effort into it than he did in the '11 finals.

So what's the value in being MVP of a game where the first half doesn't matter?

Like what, on a scale of 1-10?

Your trying to say its meaningless, when its not. You would have a point if both half's were played in the manner that the first is, but they're not. When both sides are out there competing to win, and one guy on the east is trying harder than he did in the finals, it obviously means something.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

at Kobe fans wanting to count All Star game appearances and acting like Hakeem was just "another" center. Funny how this Hakeem guy who you Kobe fans don't think is that great gets asked by...oh wait, YOUR IDOL KOBE, to teach him a thing or two.

at the disrespect for The Dream. This dude went and won a ring with no other star player against a VERY talented younger team while your boy Kobe struggling to make the playoffs with Dwight and Nash.

So what's the value in being MVP of a game where the first half doesn't matter?

Because it's Kobe and they want to give him as much accolades as they can. at really trying to count all star games.

Don't forget the gentlemen's sweep he took at the hands of the Pistons while another player he played with averaged 26 and 10 during the series.

Something else.

CP brought up how Tim Duncan never defended his title.

Guess who was on the business end of the biggest blowout of a defending champion in an elimination game ever

 

[CP1708]

Guess who lost to Kobe 4 of 5 playoff series?

01, 02, 04, 08.

Duncan won in 03 with LA coming off back to back to back Finals runs deep into June, or an extra 60ish playoff games.

And before you even try to mention Shaq, please look at the work Kobe gave them in those series, he abused those guys each series.

As for what you said above, I hear ya on the 2nd or 3rd stuff. My overall point has been regardless of where, even if he's 10, he's in the mix with Magic, Bird, Wilt, Kareem etc. He's invited to the party, he's at the countryclub.

The guys in here want him to party with Pierce, Kidd, AI, JR Smith, Vince etc because they think you can just imaginarily switch them and get the same result.But mention the other players having HOF teammates/coaches and could have swapped so and so and that is disregarded, it only applies to Kobe.

Bottom line, Kobe was an ELITE offensive and defensive player, top 3 player in the NBA from 2000 to now, stepped up on the biggest stage at 20 and at 30, amassed totals that only 2-3 others have EVER and will be widely recognized by the basketball community as a top 10 all time player. Where in that top 10 won't matter, even if a debate rages on. Top 10 is top 10, 2 thru 10 doesn't really matter.

 

[itsabaythang]

Hakeem was only great for like 3 years

Kobe got 2 rings by himself