IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[mertonhanks]

So.....MJ + Scottie, and 10 solid role guys = "Stacked"?
Blazers had Pip, Sheed, Damon, Detlef, Grant, Sabonis, Augmon and whoever else I forgot. 100 mil payroll, we had Shaq, Kobe and our role guys.
Kings, Webb, Bibby, Peja, Doug, Divac, Bobby, Hedo, Gerald Wallace, and we used all our role guys plus 2 elite stars, and we were the stacked team?
So, 2 elite players, plus role guys.....Utah Jazz? Stock/Malone, stacked?
Kemp/Payton?
You all tellin me that Ron Harper, Fish, Fox, Horry, George, Samaki was stackin the deck after 2 players?
I'll give you 2000 with Rice, and 2010 with Artest. 3-4 guys, I can dig that, but suddenly you all elevatin former players to make a case on Kobe. Interesting.

You named a Blazers team that was all over their prime except Sheed. But Ill give you that. Kings were also more stacked than the Lakers. But those teams didnt have #34

Kobe was still playing with the best player in the NBA at the time and the most dominant big man of all time Shaq(in his prime) alongside Horry and Fisher who are two of the most clutch shooting role players in the history of the NBA(was these two guys hitting clutch jumpshots in the playoffs)

For two seasons, Kobe had to play with Lamar Odom as his second guy, 1 year with Caron.

Then played with Gasol, Odom, Bynum, for the next 4 seasons.

For one season after, he plays with the second best center(best offensive) and Gasol.

Now this is the second time he has the best center in the league in Howard along with the most skilled PF in Gasol.


You bring up those Cavs rosters like they are anything on the level of Kobes throughout his career. Name one player that You compare Kobe to that has had this kind of help during his career? Tell me a player with a more "Stacked" roster for the entirety of his career since Kobe came into the league.

 

[darthska]

[quote name="Do Be Doo"]OneTrust getting trolled HARD.
[/quote]F'real. CP, I don't know how you can even argue this. Ok, maybe 'stacked' isn't the EXACT word to use, but you and I both know that Kobe has played on some very good teams, not to mention the best coach in the biz for over half of his career.

 

[CP1708]

Kobe has been on solid teams his whole career, never said otherwise.

The guy said STACKED for 13 years, then named Fish, Fox, Brian Shaw and Ho Grant.

And he's the one being trolled?

Andrew Bynum been on the court healthy his whole career now?

1 year of Caron Butler, and 18 months of Glen Rice?


When its all said and done, all they want to do is name Shaq. That's it. Then Pau.

Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Green, Cooper almost his whole career. That's stacked.
Bird had McHale, Parrish, DJ for his career, that's stacked.

13 years of "stacked". Just means Shaq, then Pau.

This year, the team is stacked. Now they want to label his whole career that way.

 

[CP1708]

Top heavy =/= Stacked

I suppose you can reason with me the late 90s Lakers were stacked, but they had their flaws. The early 2000 championship teams were top heavy. The team got old and shallow in 2003 and it showed in the playoffs (insert DBD ). 2004 was top heavy. 2005-2007, well you know. The 2008-2010 teams were stacked (I would label deep more than stacked, but that's semantics). 2011 was in-between and the last two seasons the team has been top heavy.

But this is all semantics.

 

[longstroke]

I don't think that at any time during his entire career, has an LA Laker team been projected to finish in less than third place. They were never projected to finish last, next to last, or third from last, while Kobe Bryant has played for the Lakers.

If the West was more competitive than the East during the early 2000's, Kobe's prime years, how is it that he didn't have enough good players around him again? 

 

[member 2323]

So.....MJ + Scottie, and 10 solid role guys = "Stacked"?

Blazers had Pip, Sheed, Damon, Detlef, Grant, Sabonis, Augmon and whoever else I forgot. 100 mil payroll, we had Shaq, Kobe and our role guys.
Kings, Webb, Bibby, Peja, Doug, Divac, Bobby, Hedo, Gerald Wallace, and we used all our role guys plus 2 elite stars, and we were the stacked team?

So, 2 elite players, plus role guys.....Utah Jazz? Stock/Malone, stacked?
Kemp/Payton?
You all tellin me that Ron Harper, Fish, Fox, Horry, George, Samaki was stackin the deck after 2 players?

I'll give you 2000 with Rice, and 2010 with Artest. 3-4 guys, I can dig that, but suddenly you all elevatin former players to make a case on Kobe. Interesting.

Ummm... NO.

Lakers fans will continue to discredit Shaq's dominance.

Please go look at his stats during those Finals' runs.

2000: 38 & 17

Games with 43 &19, 40 & 24, 36 & 21

2001: 33 & 16

Games with 44 & 20, 28 & 20

2002: 36 & 12

All while shooting 60%

The guy was a complete animal, but Kobe fans can't comprehend the extent of his beastly ways because they don't understand numbers and math.

You know who the best 2 big men in the league were when Shaq was in his prime?

Shaq.

Kobe had the league's 2 best big men for 8 years along with the GOAT coach.

Then he had 2 of the league's 3 best big men AGAIN for 3-4 years along with the GOAT coach.

Now, again, he has the league's best big man.

So yes, his teams were stacked. Any team that had Shaq in his monster years was stacked, regardless of who else is on the team.

So yeah, if you have an above average shooting guard + the league's two best big men + CLUTCH PLAYERS that made all the big shots (Horry, Fisher) + the GOAT coach... you are beyond stacked, with or without that above average shooting guard.

 

[CP1708]

WHO THE **** IS DISCREDITING SHAQ IN HERE?

WHERE DID I TYPE THAT?


Stacked = ONE ******g player now?

 

[member 2323]

WHO THE **** IS DISCREDITING SHAQ IN HERE?
WHERE DID I TYPE THAT?
Stacked = ONE ******g player now?

In the case of Shaq, yes.

What the **** is so funny about that?

 

[CP1708]

Rice for half the lockout year in 99 + 2000, granted. Gave you that team.
Fox, no, stop it.
Drew, which year? What year was he healthy for 75 games, tell me, what year?
Caron, one year, the year Kobe missed 20 something games. Divac hurt, Mihm hurt, chucky Atkins at point, yeah, stacked squad there.
Pau and Kobe were a great duo, LO a solid 3rd option.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA again... TYPICAL kobe fans bringing up the SAME MEASLY TWO YEARS of kobe having to FINALLY play with "sub par" talent. Welcome to the world of Paul Pierce, TMac, Lebron, AI, Vince, etc for the MAJORITY of THEIR careers...HILARIOUS!

I couldn't get to this last night, but let's talk.

TMac? TMac didn't have help? He didn't have anyone around him? Hmmm, did he, or did he not leave HIS OWN COUSIN Vince Carter when they were still both very young, and up and coming? Tracy did that, yes? And he did that, why? To sign with Grant Hill, and they hoped Tim Duncan, but Tim stayed put. Then Hill broke down, and Orlando nabbed Dwight Howard. What did Tracy do? He left again. To join Yao, and then Ron. And in the end, Tracy's body broke down. This is TRACY'S fault for leaving Vince in the first place, don't you think? And he left to join other stars, some bad breaks, and then he left the #1 pick to join another. Poor Tracy?

Pierce had Toine, which is, meh, and since 07 has had KG, Ray, Rondo, and whoever else goes thru Boston now. Paul ain't hurtin. His career is split right down the middle just fine. He and Toine went to the ECF too, and almost made the finals in 02.

Vince? His own cousin left him, he went and played with Kidd and the Nets, did nothin. Tried Phoenix, nothin. Joined Dwight in Orlando comin out of the Finals, and do I really need to inset my favorite gif here to show how that went? Now he's in Dallas after they won a title, and has done nothing. Vince has had talent around him always, he just has a vag where his balls should be.

Pretty sure you can take Lebron off this list now dude, his first 5 years, no doubt, he's makin up for it now.

Majority of their careers? You did your homework before you typed all this garbage, cuz I just broke it down in 8 minutes without even looking it all up. Let me guess, because they didn't get to play with Shaq, one player, they were never "stacked" but Kobe was, cuz he had Shaq, and as stated by you people now, Shaq = stacked.

Wow.

 

[CP1708]

WHO THE **** IS DISCREDITING SHAQ IN HERE?

WHERE DID I TYPE THAT?

Stacked = ONE ******g player now?

In the case of Shaq, yes.

What the **** is so funny about that?

Ain't funny, it's sad. My dude Trust said stacked team, I assume referring more to this years squad than anything, and thru debate, I now see guys claiming that ONE single player means the team is stacked.

So again then, the Cavs were STACKED, they had Lebron. Forget everyone else, Lebron is/was just like Shaq, so that team therefore is STACKED?


Ok guys, go on ahead, I'm good. Trust is a posted that I listen too, and I wanted to be able to go back and forth with him a lil bit, the rest of you carry on. I'm not messin with you alls garbage.

 

[mjsaver]

Its all perspective, Shaq played with the greatest 2 guards of this generation and an all time pg in penny if not for injuries.

Was he fortunate as well?

Its funny though, all the special years happened in LA with an above avg shooting guard. And although he won again in Miami during the playoffs he was a shell of himself and it took the worst officiated finals in history for him to get another ring.

Has Duncan been fortunate?

He came to a playoff ready team with a HOF center, who only got the #1 pick because D Rob hurt his back and the team tanked it. What other big has had a HOF backcourt majority of their career, top flight organization, and also 1 of the greatest coaches in NBA history?

We gonna downplay Kobe and call him lucky and fortunate I hope we got room in that boat for other greats as well. Even magic came out ta college to a great coach and 1 of the greatest scorers in NBA history.

 

[do be doo]

He came to a playoff ready team with a HOF center, who only got the #1 pick because D Rob hurt his back and the team tanked it. What other big has had a HOF backcourt majority of their career, top flight organization, and also 1 of the greatest coaches in NBA history?

David Robinson wanst 94 5-0 when Duncan came to the SPURS.

Just because you tank that doesnt mean a guarantee 1st pick. Ask the Celtics.

But Tim Duncan made them better. Yeah they could have been good but Duncan made them GREAT. No one was checking for both Parker or Manu.

Ask POP who he owes his coaching success too. Matter of fact....

Gregg Popovich thanks Tim Duncan for the house he owns

“It’s fun coaching him,” Popovich said. “I’ve got my hands hanging on his coattail … and he just keeps dragging me around wherever I’m at. Every time I walk around the house once a month, I tell my wife, ‘Say thank you, Tim.’ I’m serious.”

 

[darthska]

Sure, laugh at the outlandish statement he made.

Disregard the legitimate one right after that, though:
"league's two best big men + CLUTCH PLAYERS that made all the big shots (Horry, Fisher) + the GOAT coach... you are beyond stacked, with or without that above average shooting guard."

True story.

 

[CP1708]

Look at you. Now you combining teams.

Leagues TWO best big men? Shaq and who?

I assume you mean Pau? Pau was the league's best big man, exactly when?

This is comical.

Notice how I post two articles from the EXACT SAME AUTHOR, the basis of this thread and not one person addresses it. But someone claims that Shaq = stacked team and its gospel.

And Pau clearly had the league on its knees in Memphis when he was 0 and 12 for his career in the playoffs. But apparently I was supposed to stop laughing and listen to his next point.

Yeah, no. Still laughing.

 

[CP1708]

Kobe was so lucky that year he played with Shaq, and Magic, and Pau, and Nash, and Dwight, and Eddie, and Rice, with Glove, and don't forget B Shaw was on that team, can we add Mikan to the list since we're just combining all Laker teams into one roster?

Above average SG + leagues TWO best big men.

They would be??????

 

[darthska]

Dude, why are you fronting like we don't laugh in the Lakers thread about plucking other team's stars?

But now when someone words it differently by calling it 'the fortunate rosters Kobe has experienced', it's debatable?

Laugh all you want; it's not debatable. that boy has played with a lot of talent in his day. call it stacked, call it plucking other teams stars, call it whatever you want, but when someone mentions the topic of Kobe's fortune regarding teammates, the only appropriate response is simply to acknowledge it.

"Yep, good point."

Argue stats or something.

 

[longstroke]

Has Kobe Bryant ever dominated a game by NOT shooting the ball? You know, by passing, playing defense, rebounding, setting off ball picks, motivating teammates, etc?

The true all time greats did.

 

[CP1708]

I'm not arguing that we have had good players.

The point was made, Kobe has been on a STACKED team for 13 years, which is complete, utter ********. And I said so.

I never once, said Kobe has played with bums. I never once said we have had no talent with him. Never once.

I also never combined Shaq with Pau and LO. Or Rice with Artest and Eddie Jones, things that were being mixed up.


Then I was told that one man made a team stacked, which was hilarious, then I was told B Shaw and 36 year old Ho Grant made a team stacked, which was maybe by a family member of theirs, and I went from there.

This thread is 75 horrible pages which you have enjoyed along with the rest of your Kobe hating brothers. A thread about ANY other NBA player wouldn't make it this far, woulda been locked before page 5. I stayed out mostly for 65+ pages, then I saw Trust came in, and I came in to chop it up with him. Now I'm screwed and gonna have to hear about how Bynum played 500 straight games as the most dominant player ever, and Pau was a God before he became a Laker, and he alone made Kobe a winner again, all kinds of more crap coming soon. It's great.

 

[defobking]

^ whats comical is the fact that ur rejecting the fact that kobe was fortunate enough to be playin with a stack team with top 5 center for literally his whole career.

 

[ag 47]

Has Kobe Bryant ever dominated a game by NOT shooting the ball? You know, by passing, playing defense, rebounding, setting off ball picks, motivating teammates, etc?

The true all time greats did.

Yup. When we used to face Philly in the early 2000s, his defense gave Iverson fits and really was the difference in some of those matchups.

 

[menacin methods]

Has Kobe Bryant ever dominated a game by NOT shooting the ball? You know, by passing, playing defense, rebounding, setting off ball picks, motivating teammates, etc?

The true all time greats did.

He sure did!

Feb 2002 vs Wizards

Bryant scored 18 of his 23 points in the second half, and also had 11 rebounds and a career-high 15 assists.

 

[noblekane]

why is it that the lakers are the only team that has been deemed stacked? EVERY team who has won a title could be deemed "stacked" by peoples definition in here.

you people are all over the place trying to discredit kobe bryant

most of you hate the guy because the lakers rolled all over your teams many years ago.

time to let it go...

 

[darthska]

[quote name="CP]This thread is 75 horrible pages which you have enjoyed along with the rest of your Kobe hating brothers. A thread about ANY other NBA player wouldn't make it this far, woulda been locked before page 5.[/quote] I assume that you are pretty active in sports discussions outside of Niketalk, and whether you realize it or did it or not, Kobe is a very polarizing figure. this is far from the first time I have seen someone question whether or not Kobe deserves his status in the basketball world. A thread dedicated to the discussion is LOOONG overdue.

And I'm enjoying this thread w/ my Kobe hating buddies? there's so much fail in that statement. like I already sarcastically address, anytime someone questions the status of another individual, it is presumed by that person's supporters he's being hated. Comical, but whatever. Second, this ain't even 'my' forum, and I haven't even been the most consistently active staff member in here for a few months; Meth has. So to say it's open and active because of me is also comical.

 

[galaxynexus]

Has Kobe Bryant ever dominated a game by NOT shooting the ball? You know, by passing, playing defense, rebounding, setting off ball picks, motivating teammates, etc?

The true all time greats did.

Motivating teammates? The Redeem Team would like to speak to you. Durant, LeBron, etc. have all gone on record saying that playing and witnessing Kobe's worth ethic and competitive nature helped motivate them. Look up the shooting routine he gave Ariza (he calls it the 'Bible'). Actually look up what Ariza's done since he left Kobe. Look up Farmar, Sasha, Mihm, Walton, Odom, etc. Correlation is not causation but in more than a handful of cases, you can definitively say players were much more effective while playing on Bean's team.

Defense? Ask Iverson in the Finals. Or Barbosa in the Olympics. Has he deserved all of his Defense 1st Team honors? Probably not. But to say he doesn't play defense based on his lackluster effort the past few years is a bit crazy.

Rebounding? He had his worst shooting game in Game 7 of the Finals against the Celtics but was the game's leading rebounder. 

Now, can you give me examples of how MJ motivated his teammates or rebounded? Let's just keep it 100. MJ has physically fought players, verbally abused them (both as a GM & teammate), etc. 

The only players during Bean's time that can even be put in the same sentence talent/achievement-wise are Shaq, LeBron, and TD. Depending on who you ask, 2 or 3 of those players in someone's Top 10 of all time list. 

The more I learn about MJ & Kobe, the more I realize they're not only similar players but also similar people. Ultra-competitive, will do anything to win, etc. And yes, according to most of society's standards, they are both a-holes. But in the end, they're both worth hundreds of millions of dollars, are consensus top 10 players of all time, and more tellingly, they're 2 of the most widely-respected athletes by their peers & coaches of all time. 

 

[denni5themenace]

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