IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[darthska]

[quote name="CP1708"]So, the basketball globe includes Kobe in the convo with MJ, Magic, Kareem, Bill Russ, etc.
NT folk, got Kobe behind Jason Kidd, Paul Pierce, and now Carmelo.
And the NT folk, think they're right. [/quote] I'll be damned if that's not a gross misrepresentation of statements.

Basketball analysts put Kobe where they put him based on what? His resume. They're not there to talk about whether or not he has been granted an extremely gifted set of circumstances for his entire career; they're just there to talk about basketball.

So just talking about basketball only, yes, the basketball globe has Kobe very high in the ranks.

we're looking a little deeper, though.

 

[menacin methods]

Why is Melo in the same sentence as Durant and Lebron?

Why not? Best player on a top 5 team in the league as of today.

At this point in their careers, melo = kobe

What makes Melo on the same level as Kobe?
Is it because the Knicks have a better record than the Lakers? I mean Melo didnt play when the Knicks murdered the Heat. Knicks are balling right now.

Lets see....Melo's 3p% is better than Kobe. Oh yeah and hes avg 1 rebound more than Kobe. Besides that Kobe is winning in every other stat.

Kobe Stats
ppg 28
apg 5
rpg 5
steal 1.7
ft - .870
3p% - .398
fg% - .482
AGE - 34


Melo Stats
ppg - 27
apg - 2
rpg - 6
spg - 0.9
bpg-0.6
ft - .796
3p% - .430
fg% - .455
AGE - 28

So how is Melo on the same level as Kobe? Number tell a different story.
Do you think Melo is in his Prime? We all know Kobe's prime is long gone but he's still playing on "Melo's level" right?
Are you saying he's = to Kobe because the Knicks are 10 games over .500 and Kobe's team is 3 games under .500 ?

PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND!!

 

[acbboyz84]

I'm jealous of your Kobe Fandom? try again
So sad
Jealous?

You've been jealous son. Jealous of Kobe. That's why you lurk the Lakers thread and always try to throw jabs at Lakers fans and the team whenever you had the chance.

Petty

 

[acbboyz84]

Go take some ESL classes, then jump off a bridge.

The Lakers lost the 2004 Finals because of one reason: Kobe "Bean" Bryant.

The Lakers lost the Finals because of Kobe. RIGHTTTTT......

Obviously someone didn't watch the games.

 

[thegoldenchild]

What makes Melo on the same level as Kobe?
Is it because the Knicks have a better record than the Lakers? I mean Melo didnt play when the Knicks murdered the Heat. Knicks are balling right now.
Lets see....Melo's 3p% is better than Kobe. Oh yeah and hes avg 1 rebound more than Kobe. Besides that Kobe is winning in every other stat.
Kobe Stats
ppg 28
apg 5
rpg 5
steal 1.7
ft - .870
3p% - .398
fg% - .482
AGE - 34
Melo Stats
ppg - 27
apg - 2
rpg - 6
spg - 0.9
bpg-0.6
ft - .796
3p% - .430
fg% - .455
AGE - 28
So how is Melo on the same level as Kobe? Number tell a different story.
Do you think Melo is in his Prime? We all know Kobe's prime is long gone but he's still playing on "Melo's level" right?
Are you saying he's = to Kobe because the Knicks are 10 games over .500 and Kobe's team is 3 games under .500 ?
PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND!!

if im not mistaken 10 years into his career kobe had already 3 rings.. and several all nba 1st teams.. melo never made it to the 1st team..never became mvp of anything, only rookie game..

 

[addict4sneakers]

What makes Melo on the same level as Kobe?
Is it because the Knicks have a better record than the Lakers? I mean Melo didnt play when the Knicks murdered the Heat. Knicks are balling right now.
Lets see....Melo's 3p% is better than Kobe. Oh yeah and hes avg 1 rebound more than Kobe. Besides that Kobe is winning in every other stat.
Kobe Stats
ppg 28
apg 5
rpg 5
steal 1.7
ft - .870
3p% - .398
fg% - .482
AGE - 34
Melo Stats
ppg - 27
apg - 2
rpg - 6
spg - 0.9
bpg-0.6
ft - .796
3p% - .430
fg% - .455
AGE - 28
So how is Melo on the same level as Kobe? Number tell a different story.
Do you think Melo is in his Prime? We all know Kobe's prime is long gone but he's still playing on "Melo's level" right?
Are you saying he's = to Kobe because the Knicks are 10 games over .500 and Kobe's team is 3 games under .500 ?
PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND!!

we all know career wise, its not a question. let's get that straight. but both dudes as of today, are high volume scorers. both guys make and take ill advised shots. both can shoot you in and out of games. neither play a lick of defense (don't give me that kobe makes all defensive team crap.)

how is it far fetched to say they aren't on the same level playing wise this season? we all know neither of them are better than lebron or durant.

 

[goldenchild9]

Why is Melo in the same sentence as Durant and Lebron?

Why not? Best player on a top 5 team in the league as of today.

At this point in their careers, melo = kobe

What makes Melo on the same level as Kobe?
Is it because the Knicks have a better record than the Lakers? I mean Melo didnt play when the Knicks murdered the Heat. Knicks are balling right now.

Lets see....Melo's 3p% is better than Kobe. Oh yeah and hes avg 1 rebound more than Kobe. Besides that Kobe is winning in every other stat.

Kobe Stats
ppg 28
apg 5
rpg 5
steal 1.7
ft - .870
3p% - .398
fg% - .482
AGE - 34


Melo Stats
ppg - 27
apg - 2
rpg - 6
spg - 0.9
bpg-0.6
ft - .796
3p% - .430
fg% - .455
AGE - 28

So how is Melo on the same level as Kobe? Number tell a different story.
Do you think Melo is in his Prime? We all know Kobe's prime is long gone but he's still playing on "Melo's level" right?
Are you saying he's = to Kobe because the Knicks are 10 games over .500 and Kobe's team is 3 games under .500 ?

PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND!!

Not debating Melo vs Kobe right now either way (too premature)....but do you want them to have the exact same numbers before you can say that they are on the same level?

Geez. Y'all dudes are extremisits

 

[acbboyz84]

You're honestly terrible.

These guys didn't make the All-Star game because of Bean Bryant, they made the All-Star game DESPITE Bean Bryant.


They made the All-Star game because of 2 things:

1) They were able to withstand Bean's ball-hogging and put up double-doubles.

2) They play in Los Angeles, one of the world's biggest markets. They play for the team with the biggest amount of bandwagon fans in the world. The All-Star starters are voted by the fans. It's simple math/logic.

LOL at the

Kobe made them ALL STARS. FACT. You can't take that because you're mad.

And you don't know %@% about basketball. Comparing Jkidd to Kobe lol

Im going to take your quote and make a joke out it.

 

[CP1708]

we're looking a little deeper, though.

You're lying. Flat out, bold faced lying.

Jason Kidd, in a BILLION years is or never was as good as Kobe at the game of basketball.

The guy was a great floor general, and he plays the gam differently than a lot of guys, but he was similar to Magic in that at 6-4, he was unique for a PG. That unique PG also shot seasons like this

.385
.381
.369
.391
.384
.398
.366
.361
.363

Those are SHOOTING PERCENTAGES. Those are real life, REAL, shooting percentages, and you guys want to discredit Kobe's shooting?

Those are JUST the seasons below 40%. I didn't even include the 40's, the 41's, etc. Why bother?

So what, he makes it up with rebounding, or, 1 more rebound a game than Kobe. Wow.

Or assists, or in other words, his 8.9 a game, to Kobe's 4.7, huge disparity, for such a talented PG that does nothing but distribute, or so the story gets told.

Kobe, the ULTIMATE ball hog, is 4 less assists a game than Kidd, the floor general, the great passer, the elite PG, the player that is, * * better than Kobe.

Lemme guess, he is defensively way over Kobe's head. Where everyone now sees Kobe is not the defensive player he once was, for well over a dozen years Kobe was just as nasty on D as Kidd was.

Kobe's speed was just as fast as Kidd's was, Kobe had far more range than Kidd, jumped higher, had more bounce when going up, landing and going back up, not Matrix like like Shawn Marion, but certainly quicker than Kidd.

Kobe's ball handling was always very good, just as Kidd's was.


So, going "deeper" in here is nothing more than the trolls of the S&T department of Niketalk are just shoveling ******** and digging everyone deeper and deeper and deeper indeed. Kidd is NOWHERE near the player Kobe is, or ever was. Kidd was great, is a sure fire HOFer, and still not in the same realm of what Kobe did on the court.


We've gotten to pure ******g ridiculousness that names like Pierce, Kidd, Carmelo can just be thrown out, and haters eat it up and are like yeah, I could see that. Pretty soon we'll be rehashing Vince, AI, TMac, Grant Hill, Gilbert Arenas, Mugsy Bogues, and all sorts of other names that are "just as good as Kobe, they just didn't play with Shaq" And then watch NTer after NTer cosign it over and over and over as gospel.

But hey, I have Lakers in my sig, everything I just said bout Kobe and Kidd ain't true, I made it all up. Thas how it goes.

 

[menacin methods]

What makes Melo on the same level as Kobe?
Is it because the Knicks have a better record than the Lakers? I mean Melo didnt play when the Knicks murdered the Heat. Knicks are balling right now.
Lets see....Melo's 3p% is better than Kobe. Oh yeah and hes avg 1 rebound more than Kobe. Besides that Kobe is winning in every other stat.
Kobe Stats
ppg 28
apg 5
rpg 5
steal 1.7
ft - .870
3p% - .398
fg% - .482
AGE - 34
Melo Stats
ppg - 27
apg - 2
rpg - 6
spg - 0.9
bpg-0.6
ft - .796
3p% - .430
fg% - .455
AGE - 28
So how is Melo on the same level as Kobe? Number tell a different story.
Do you think Melo is in his Prime? We all know Kobe's prime is long gone but he's still playing on "Melo's level" right?
Are you saying he's = to Kobe because the Knicks are 10 games over .500 and Kobe's team is 3 games under .500 ?
PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND!!

we all know career wise, its not a question. let's get that straight. but both dudes as of today, are high volume scorers. both guys make and take ill advised shots. both can shoot you in and out of games. neither play a lick of defense (don't give me that kobe makes all defensive team crap.)

how is it far fetched to say they aren't on the same level playing wise this season? we all know neither of them are better than lebron or durant.

I understand what you saying. I personally think Melo is the best pure scorer in the league. Overall he's a better scorer than Durant, it' comes soooo easy for him. But that's only scoring.You said Melo = Kobe. Besides scoring what else makes Melo equal to Kobe?

 

[acbboyz84]

Anybody who thinks Kobe Bryant is a better basketball player than Jason Kidd is a joke.

Quote from Member2323.

 

[acbboyz84]

Wanna talk about how it was 8-on-5?

Kobe Bryant has NEVER EARNEDa championship ring.

Another quote from Member2323

 

[addict4sneakers]

I understand what you saying. I personally think Melo is the best pure scorer in the league. Overall he's a better scorer than Durant, it' comes soooo easy for him. But that's only scoring.You said Melo = Kobe. Besides scoring what else makes Melo equal to Kobe?

i'm not going to argue melo v durant right now, save that for a different thread

but as of TODAY, melo and kobe are the exact same player. neither does anything in particular better than the other aside from kobe being better passer.

 

[acbboyz84]

Let me expose this dude and his jealousy of Kobe.

Originally Posted by Member 2323

Kobe Bryant when he broke up a championship team due to his own selfishness. Not that I liked him before that, but I've hated him ever since. He is the definition of a spoiled brat. I wish injury on that clown. He doesn't deserve to play basketball because he is a disgrace to the sport. Countless players (Garnett, Allen, Pierce, LeBron, Iverson, Vince Carter, etc., etc.) have the first 8-12 years of their career wasted because they don't have contending teams. This selfish piece of crap had everything given to him, and still complained like a girl and broke up the team. I hope both of his ACLs get torn during the preseason.

From http://niketalk.com/t/505152/can-yo...when-you-began-to-dislike-a-certain-celebrity

 

[goldenchild9]

So you just admitted that all Kobe had on Kidd was his scoring ability....and you're laughing at the comparison?

OK Kobe's a better scorer but....

So what, he makes it up with rebounding, or, 1 more rebound a game than Kobe. Wow.

From a much smaller man mind you...

assists.....8.9 a game, to Kobe's 4.7

Here its not even about the numbers, though 4 assists more a game is nothing scoff at like you did. It's about the quality of that passing and it's effect on the game and teams. There is no contest in this department. The margin between Kidd and Kobe's passing abilities were equal to the gulf between Kobe and Kidd's scoring ability.

Kobe was just as nasty on D as Kidd was

Kobe's ball handling was always very good, just as Kidd's was

Kobe's speed was just as fast as Kidd's was, Kobe had far more range than Kidd, jumped higher, had more bounce when going up, landing and going back up, not Matrix like like Shawn Marion, but certainly quicker than Kidd.

This has nothing to do with anything. We're not arguing about athletic ability...or Shawn Kemp, Steve Francis and John Wall would be in the GOAT discussion.




So basically you just admitted that Kidd was a better passer, rebounder and had equal D and ball handling abilities to one the GOATS in your eyes.....

So what are you so up in arms about exactly?

You just broke it down for yourself, typed it out with your own fingers and you still can't get past the Mamba Mind Block.

 

[menacin methods]

I understand what you saying. I personally think Melo is the best pure scorer in the league. Overall he's a better scorer than Durant, it' comes soooo easy for him. But that's only scoring.You said Melo = Kobe. Besides scoring what else makes Melo equal to Kobe?

i'm not going to argue melo v durant right now, save that for a different thread

but as of TODAY, melo and kobe are the exact same player. neither does anything in particular better than the other aside from Kobe being better passer.

There's nothing to argue about when it comes to Melo vs Durant...All i said was Melo is a better pure scorer than Durant. But overall Durant is a better player.
Just like how Lebron is sooo much better than Durant, even thou Durant is a better scorer than Lebron.

I mean don't you think someone like Melo should avg more than 2apg?
Melo is playing alot of 4, shouldnt he grab more boards?Kobe at the 2 is avg 1 less rpg than Melo.

 

[darthska]

CP, may I formally request the turnover numbers of both Kobe and Kidd, please?

 

[goldenchild9]

Lets make theses distinctions here once and for all, please....

1) The greatness of your career is not a direct indication of your personal greatness. I'm sure you know people who work in your field who have better careers/positions/resumes/salaries than you, even though you are a more capable individual.

As far as careers and how their resumes looks, Kobe might very well be a top 5 NBA player but I'm not talking about how pristine his career looks. I'm talking about his individual talent level compared to other players and all time greats.

2) And saying someone is overrated does not necessarily mean that the person is not great or a legend. Simply that people over estimate their strengths and under estimate their weakness in comparison to the peers/predecessors.

Continue with that in mind.

 

[darthska]

No.

On #1: people are measured by accomplishments only

And #2: if you challenge someone's status, it's because you hate them.

The end.

 

[goldenchild9]

No.

On #1: people are measured by accomplishments only

And #2: if you challenge someone's status, it's because you hate them.

The end.

 

[ag 47]

I'm talking about his individual talent level compared to other players and all time greats.

No. You're analyzing individual statistics, which is why some of you in here foolishly believe Jason Kidd is a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant. God given talent is far different than individual statistics.

 

[thegoldenchild]

No. You're analyzing individual statistics, which is why some of you in here foolishly believe Jason Kidd is a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant. God given talent is far different than individual statistics.

exactly this.. cause if you base this solely on talent, then kobe tmac, lbj, durant, iverson, kg should be right up there with all the legends, and perhaps even beat them, because talent wise i dont see any other player other than jordan stop or contain them.

 

[CP1708]

CP, may I formally request the turnover numbers of both Kobe and Kidd, please?

3.0 for Kobe

3.0 for Mr Point Guard

Here its not even about the numbers, though 4 assists more a game is nothing scoff at like you did. It's about the quality of that passing and it's effect on the game and teams. There is no contest in this department. The margin between Kidd and Kobe's passing abilities were equal to the gulf between Kobe and Kidd's scoring ability.

Says who? You? **** that. Kobe has been a skilled passer forever, just never does it. Spare me with your lame "but Kidd's passes are sooooo special, they mean so much", blah blah

I didn't even bother mentioning the scoring part, cuz why? It's about 50 billion to 1 in favor of Kobe, whereas Kidd gets a whole 4 more assists. Pretty sure the disparity is obvious, unless of course you have an agenda.


It came to me, Vince Carter is really just as good as Michael. Stats don't mean anything, longevity has been thrown out the window, winning don't matter, so in terms of just skill, Vince > MJ, only Vince never got to play with Scottie Pip his whole career or Phil Jackson.

See?

That's your Kidd - Kobe argument, same exact way.

 

[CP1708]

No.

On #1: people are measured by accomplishments only

And #2: if you challenge someone's status, it's because you hate them.

The end.

ser Name Posts
LONGSTROKE 215
Essential1 80
goldenchild9 77
JumpmanFromDaBay 44
DCAllAmerican 42
AlphaWolf 40
ACBboyz84 37
franc 36
Do Be Doo 35
PowerBallin 30
Deuce King 27


How many Laker fans you count? (2-3)
How many Kobe haters you count? (6-7)

Oh.

(DC is neutral, he was trying to actually talk basketball, he neither a supporter or hater of this player-team)

 

[ag 47]

exactly this.. cause if you base this solely on talent, then kobe tmac, lbj, durant, iverson, kg should be right up there with all the legends, and perhaps even beat them, because talent wise i dont see any other player other than jordan stop or contain them.

Just in case they missed it the first time.


So goldenchild and longstroke and darthdisney...when did YA'LL establish that winning basketball games was no longer important?