IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[powerballin]

Paul Pierce is underated and a HOF player....but even he knows he aint messing with that boy Kobe

"I have an opinion, I have a right to have one and that’s the way I feel. I felt I’ve played against the best over the years and felt right now that I’m the best player in the world." - Paul Pierce July 2008

He can say what he wants. I remember that.  But he knows......he knows

 

[member 2323]

That Kobe career is nothing more than he has been a high scorer for a LONG period of time.

Fixed.

 

[KMante]

Only 5 rings.....dude said only 5. 

That how I know you don't understand or respect the level of play in the NBA. 

Don't understand the level of competition in the NBA?

Please.

You obviously don't understand how much the luck factor plays in the NBA. There was only one Shaq. Any all-star would have won 3+ rings if they had Shaq in his most beastly 8 years. What part of that don't you understand. Meanwhile, you have guys like Pierce, Iverson, Allen, Garnett, LeBron, CP3, etc., etc whose first 8 years were absolutely wasted with crappy teams. Those guys could easily have won 5+ rings with Shaq because they weren't spoiled brats who would of broke up a team.

The guy was gifted 3 rings because he won the Shaq lottery.

Then he was mad because Shaq got all the MVPs, so he only wanted to win the 4th ring under his terms... thus losing the 2004 Finals. His selfishness cost two legends that are easily better than him in Malone and Payton (cost him a ring at the time). Karl Malone deserves more rings than Kobe Bryant. He has zero, Kobe has 5. That is simply a product of luck.

Then he demanded that Shaq be traded.

So what did he have now? For 3 years, he was stuck with crappy teams that better players (like I named above) had for their first 8-12 years. He didn't do CRAP with these teams, but nobody mentions that. The excuse is always that he had no help. So? What did he do? He cried like a ***** and demanded a trade. Seriously, what is there to respect about this guy?

Poor Kobe, he "didn't have any help" for 3 measly years, meanwhile others went their first decade and beyond with no help. And those last 2-3 statements are just me going along with the theory that guys like Odom and Butler (who both averaged 15 ppg) were "no help."

Then in comes Gasol, who takes this team from being a .500 team to 3 straight Finals, along with the emergence of Bynum. Now Kobe has 3 unguardable 7-footers on his team... how many other players have had that luxury?

So now the Lakers get back to Finals and get scraped by Boston in what they called "the most lopsided 6 game series ever."

Then the next year, they win because of a Yao injury in the West combined with the Celtics' inability to fairly defend their title because of KG's injury.

Then comes 2010, when Perkins gets injured in game 6 and doesn't play game 7. The same game 7 in which Bean had one of the most embarrassing shooting games ever, but Artest and Gasol saved the day.

But who gets all the credit for 2009 & 2010? Kobe. Why?

Who gets all the blame in 2012? Gasol. Why?

The answer is simple: The guy is nothing more than an average shooter. However, if an average shooter takes an insane amount of shots (hurting his team in the meantime), they will score tons of points. But people are too dumb to realize that.

So back to your comment... my opinions have absolutely NOTHING to do with a lack of basketball knowledge. They simply have to do with the fact that I'm not another dumb human that is manipulated by the media.

What is so difficult to understand about "the guy that has a championship caliber team for 15 different seasons is going to end up with more rings then the guy who had a championship caliber team 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 different seasons."

And this is without me bringing up the fact that he was lucky to land on the team that would get considerable advantage in the playoffs due to faulty officiating. Sacramento series, Minnesota series, D-Fish fouling Brent Barry in game 4, no call.

So once again... what is there to respect about this guy? I respect guys that put up with whatever situation they were in (Reggie, CP3, LeBron) way more than spoiled brats that were given everything to them to begin with, only to cry when those things were temporarily revoked.

Kobe is that dude, but as a fan of Kobe, sometimes the truth hurts. I can DEFINITELY see why people dislike Kobe.

Very solid reply. I share very similar thoughts as well. The only difference is that I respect him. He played with what he had and won. There are no ifs, ands or buts about that.

 

[denni5themenace]

some of you guys just need to come out and say you don't like the dude. id respect your opinion more. instead you try to hide behind a veil of being "unbiased" and "knowledgable"

the lengths you go to discredit him are embarrassing

 

[powerballin]

Kobe is lucky to have 5 rings...."lucky"

 

[alimuhammad]

some of you guys just need to come out and say you don't like the dude. id respect your opinion more. instead you try to hide behind a veil of being "unbiased" and "knowledgable"
the lengths you go to discredit him are embarrassing

This.  I can understand not liking Kobe, I can.  But as a basketball fiend of 30+ years, for the life of me, I do not understand how people don't respect his game at minimum.  I know every superstar NBA player is on record saying he is the man.  I'll go with their opinion over NT'ers.  

 

[essential1]

Get out of here with that man...how you just gonna subtract the first 2 years from a players legacy?

Those years when he was shooting up airballs off the bench count towards his legacy as well. Just like Bron, STAT and Dwight's impressive HS to the pro Rookie years count towards theirs.

Everyone has their own path to greatness, you can't cut and paste parts of that story together to make it look better.

Take away Paul's first 2 seasons as he adjusts to the league and he's averaging close to 24 points a game for his career....so it's still essentially the same numbers if you play fair.

They're both 20+ point scorers. With Kobe averaging about 3/4 more points a game on 3 more shot attempts per game.

Actually if you take away Pierce's first two seasons... He's 22.5ppg

Sure it counts... But let's not act like it's not misleading when you use it.


Just admit you don't like dude, and due to your dislike, you go to extreme lengths to make absurd opinions as does Longstroke, Duece, Longstroke & Member...

 

[darthska]

Damn, LONGSTROKE counts twice.

And you guys need to understand that at least 3 things are at play here:
- like him as a person
- respect him as a basketball player
- respect his his resume/accomplishments

Most of Kobe's critics can say one of the first 2, but not the 3rd.

someone who likes Kobe but doesn't respect his resume: "Oh, I like Kobe as a person, no doubt. Dude is fierce, and I like that... but
he's overrated."

someone who respects Kobe's game but doesn't respect is resume: "Oh, he's got talent for days, no doubt. But he's overrated."

You guys are just jumbling every one of his critics up into one group of people who just don't like him, and that's not the case.

 

[member 2323]

This.  I can understand not liking Kobe, I can.  But as a basketball fiend of 30+ years, for the life of me, I do not understand how people don't respect his game at minimum.  I know every superstar NBA player is on record saying he is the man.  I'll go with their opinion over NT'ers.  

There's two things:

1) Respecting his "game" as in his abilities.

2) Respecting his "game" as in respecting the way he plays 5-on-5 basketball in the NBA.

If we're talking about the former, then I can respect that he has excellent footwork, a solid mid-range game and he's been a very good free throw shooter for his career.

Now if we're talking about the latter, I have ZERO respect for the way he plays basketball in a 5-on-5 game. Zero. I think he is an insult to the game, a complete embarrassment to the way the game should be played.

- Numerous dirty plays in his career. He almost broke Manu's nose, Jaric's nose.

- Constantly trying to mislead the officials rather than actually executing. He drives to the lane and yells "AYYYYE" every time like a complete *****, hoping to get a whistle. 9 times out of 10, it wasn't a foul. Then he stares at the refs as if he's some kind of god or something.

- Constantly taking stupid shots at the end of games in order to be the hero, rather than actually trying to run a play that will help the team win. This has happened countless times. "If we win this game, we're only winning if I make the game-winner." Remember the first game of last season vs. the Bulls when he took a terrible shot 3-on-1? Remember the game in Detroit last year when he went like 4-23 and he took a stupid 30-footer at the end of overtime because he "thought he was gonna get fouled" ?

I will always say that Kobe Bryant is a detriment to a basketball team. I believe that he has 5 rings only because those teams were so loaded that they were able to overcome his selfishness.

 

[denni5themenace]

what's hilarious to me is that each person trying to discredit brings something new

not being the face of the league
Not carrying the NBA after MJ
Being the second most disliked player in the league
not being the man on his team during the first championship run
riding the coat tails of pau gasol
being compared to horry, Kidd, Pierce, Payton and Malone

and that's just stuff I skimmed through.

I mean Jesus, someone called Lamar odom an unguardable 7 footer

you got numerous coaches, GMs, players who are his contemporaries saying that he is one of the best ever. Tracy McGrady even personally thanked him in his retirement letter

am I taking their opinion on where he falls on the all time list as gospel? no. but it sure speaks volumes.

at the end of the day this is a subjective question, and you guys trying to discredit him are trying so hard to be RIGHT.

what are you guys trying to prove? if you guys were trying to have a discussion instead of poppin off as condescending jackasses, this thread would move along a lot better. the only thing you've proved to me is that you're bigger fans of Kobe than most of his fans. posting articles you've obviously read through, advanced statistics, claiming you've followed his career, etc.

 

[JCMojica24]

I'm surprised this thread is still even going...

 

[addict4sneakers]

does kobe's team being 1-9 when he scores over 30 say anything about his style of play?

when durant, lebron, and carmelo score over 30, their team seems to win.

serious question

 

[americangenius]

I don't think he's that overrated, he's still performing at a decent level even at this age. He has had great players on his team but he delivered each time. But I don't understand how some people (still) considered him the best in the league in the past few years.

 

[menacin methods]

does kobe's team being 1-9 when he scores over 30 say anything about his style of play?

when durant, lebron, and carmelo score over 30, their team seems to win.

serious question

Why is Melo in the same sentence as Durant and Lebron?

 

[clyde the glide]

I'm surprised this thread is still even going...

deadass i never understood how people can have the same arguments over and over again.

 

[goldenchild9]

Damn, LONGSTROKE counts twice.

And you guys need to understand that at least 3 things are at play here:
- like him as a person
- respect him as a basketball player
- respect his his resume/accomplishments

Most of Kobe's critics can say one of the first 2, but not the 3rd.

someone who likes Kobe but doesn't respect his resume: "Oh, I like Kobe as a person, no doubt. Dude is fierce, and I like that... but
he's overrated."

someone who respects Kobe's game but doesn't respect is resume: "Oh, he's got talent for days, no doubt. But he's overrated."

You guys are just jumbling every one of his critics up into one group of people who just don't like him, and that's not the case.

Thank you for being levelheaded Ska.

I don't hate Kobe at all, never have.

I just love the game of basketball and can recognize the greatness and flaws of players without getting caught up in the cult around them.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Thank you for being levelheaded Ska.
I don't hate Kobe at all, never have.
I just love the game of basketball and can recognize the greatness and flaws of players without getting caught up in the cult around them.

you say you can recognize the greatness and flaws of players?? but you compare kobe to paul pierce? by making that statement, it shows a lot about your recognition skills..

and you discredit almost everything that john stockton did in his career, because you're a jordan fan..

 

[goldenchild9]

See what I mean....

Y'all dudes are the ones saying the craziest things in here.

Show me where I discredited almost everything in John Stockon's career? By saying that MJ was better at every aspect of the game beside passing? Thats a fact not a shot to the great John Stockton.

I've never been a Jordan fan in my life.

Penny, Iverson, Ray Allen, Brandon Roy and Chris Paul used to be my favorite players. Jordan was always going against my teams growing up.

Never rooted for dude but like I said I can be unbiased and unemotional in basketball discussions, which some of y'all can't.

 

[thegoldenchild]

See what I mean....
Y'all dudes are the ones saying the craziest things in here.
Show me where I discredited almost everything in John Stockon's career? By saying that MJ was better at every aspect of the game beside passing? Thats a fact not a shot to the great John Stockton.
I've never been a Jordan fan in my life.
Penny, Iverson, Ray Allen, Brandon Roy and Chris Paul used to be my favorite players. Jordan was always going against my teams growing up.
Never rooted for dude but like I said I can be unbiased and unemotional in basketball discussions, which some of y'all can't.

Minutes played is a measure of skills now, most consecutive seasons on one team?

Playing with the #2 points man in history for 17 years not being factored in...

Rebounding, leadership, ball IQ, Jordan's defense (#3 in steals, versatility on D) etc, etc. etc.

Stockton was a better passer than Jordan, thats it.

Jordan was better at every other facet of the game. Stockton had more steals but MJ was a better defender, he is #3 in steals all time from the SG position, which required him to guard more athletic players and a wider range of positions and he had almost triple the amount of blocks that Stockton had.

for one more minutes played, shows the heart of the player, stockton has been consistent and a competitor his entire career..

you're thinking just cause jordan was the MVP of the nba, that stockton's leadership on his team should be discredited? his IQ? dude was one of the smartest players in league history.. or his defense? you point out that jordan is #3 in steals.. guess who's #1? it's john stockton with 3265 and jordan has 2514. and you're gonna tell me that stockton doesnt play defense and that jordan is the superior defender? not really.. just cause jordan is more versatile doesnt mean he's a better defender.. besides the all defense first team selection is not only based on defensive skills, in a way part of it is also a popularity contest.

how do you think karl malone became the #2 man in points in nba history? because he was so skilled? no, 80% of his points came from john stockton.

again you are comparing apples and oranges, because of course stockton is not gonna ever lead the league in rebounds or blocks, comparing a 6'1 pg to a 6'6 sg..

no only was stockton a better passer, but for his career, stockton was also a better shooter than jordan, and a better three point shooter. he might not be a better player, but jordan was not better than stockton in every facet of the game. dude is probably the best pg in nba history, yes stockton is better than jkidd

 

[goldenchild9]

I don't have the desire or energy to rip apart the BS in that post cause you're just gonna twist my words anyway and add in things like "you're gonna tell me that Stockton doesn't play defense".

And claim he was a better shooter when Jordan took 2.5 times more shot attempts and is only scant percentage points behind Stockton in FG%.

No way in the world is Stockton the best PG in NBA history.

But you got it, bro.

If those are your stances and you feel like comparing Paul Pierce and Kobe Bryant is akin comparing John Stockton to Michael Jordan.... there's nothing more for us to discuss.

You said a couple pages back that you think Kobe is better than Jordan. I know where you stand.

 

[addict4sneakers]

Why is Melo in the same sentence as Durant and Lebron?

Why not? Best player on a top 5 team in the league as of today.

At this point in their careers, melo = kobe

 

[darthska]

[quote name="Member 2323"]

There's two things:

1) Respecting his "game" as in his abilities.

2) Respecting his "game" as in respecting the way he plays 5-on-5 basketball in the NBA.


If we're talking about the former, then I can respect that he has excellent footwork, a solid mid-range game and he's been a very good free throw shooter for his career.

Now if we're talking about the latter, I have ZERO respect for the way he plays basketball in a 5-on-5 game. Zero. I think he is an insult to the game, a complete embarrassment to the way the game should be played.

I will always say that Kobe Bryant is a detriment to a basketball team. I believe that he has 5 rings only because those teams were so loaded that they were able to overcome his selfishness.[/quote]Maaaaaaaan, try having that opinion despite actually being a fan of the team Kobe plays for. :\

 

[defobking]

if we are going to include IQ in kobe being overrated discussion then it will be the end of the thread. Also i believe MJ has a higher steal per game than Stockton. Also all defense first team back in the 90s is not a popularity contest like how Kobe got in the past year

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team

u gonna tell me these ppl cant play good def get out of here.

Also i am gonna say it. in 2010-2011 the league is trying to get a lakers vs miami and even kobe to get his 6th ring so he can become the true next jordan thus selecting him into the all nba defensive team. Only to see kobe get lit up by jason terry and get swept by the dallas. and you laker/kobe fan boy got the audacity to blame pau gasol for playin soft when your boy kobe only score 17 and 17 in the last 2 games and jason terry score 23 and 32. I know you kobe stan gonna make up some crazy excuse like how pau and bynum is to be blame. but come on if ur leader of the team u got to take all the blame and especially when kobe (the man of the team) got out played by a ****** and sixth man of a team.

all in all kobe if def a top 5-15 player no doubt but you laker/kobe stan gotta stop making excuses for kobe's failure

 

[CP1708]

So, the basketball globe includes Kobe in the convo with MJ, Magic, Kareem, Bill Russ, etc.

NT folk, got Kobe behind Jason Kidd, Paul Pierce, and now Carmelo.


And the NT folk, think they're right.

 

[acbboyz84]

if we are going to include IQ in kobe being overrated discussion then it will be the end of the thread. Also i believe MJ has a higher steal per game than Stockton. Also all defense first team back in the 90s is not a popularity contest like how Kobe got in the past year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team
u gonna tell me these ppl cant play good def get out of here.
Also i am gonna say it. in 2010-2011 the league is trying to get a lakers vs miami and even kobe to get his 6th ring so he can become the true next jordan thus selecting him into the all nba defensive team. Only to see kobe get lit up by jason terry and get swept by the dallas. and you laker/kobe fan boy got the audacity to blame pau gasol for playin soft when your boy kobe only score 17 and 17 in the last 2 games and jason terry score 23 and 32. I know you kobe stan gonna make up some crazy excuse like how pau and bynum is to be blame. but come on if ur leader of the team u got to take all the blame and especially when kobe (the man of the team) got out played by a ****** and sixth man of a team.
all in all kobe if def a top 5-15 player no doubt but you laker/kobe stan gotta stop making excuses for kobe's failure

Another dude who didn't watch the games and only looking at the stat sheet.

The Mavs shot 63% from three that series. 63%. Pretty hard to win when you gave up that many 3s. All of sudden it's Kobe fault the Mavs shot 63%?

It was also documented that Kobe was playing on one knee and one ankle in that series. When Kobe was healthy the Mavs can't stop him