IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[darthska]

[quote name="ACBboyz84"]All of sudden Jkidd is suppose to be better than Kobe lol

How many teams has Jkidd played for? Nobody want Jkidd as their franchise player. That right there tell a lot about Jkidd ability lol.

Jkidd wouldnt dare to tell anyone to put on their big boy pant simply because he doesn't have the resume to back it up.

Jkidd sure helped a lot of players perform better. They played so good that Jkidd didn't win a damn ring until he's almost 40 lol.

Jkidd is also so better than Kobe that team are can't wait but to trade him as soon as they get an offer lol.
[/quote]Well that was entertaining. Yikes.

 

[acbboyz84]

Trevor Ariza made one of the most stupidest decision of his career when he decided to bargain with the Bush family. Now he's looking the reality of approaching 30 and being irrelevant for rest of his career lol

What a fool. Kobe would have made you a 3 times champ.

 

[goldenchild9]

Livid.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Kobe was a scoring machine in his prime and he had Shaq to ensure that they were always in a position to win...enabling him to close the show and step up when his number was called.
He was also in his prime in the post-Shaq Lakers era though and his team went absolutely no where. He alienated his teammates, went on the most selfish run in NBA history, getting bounced in the first round when he did scrape into the playoffs.
J-Kidd's prime in NJ leading that band of scrappy players to multiple Finals is much more impressive than Kobe's prime IMO.
Jason did absolutely everything on the court. Derailed offenses, drew charges and steals and came down the floor at breakneck speeds getting anywhere on the court to set up plays that only he could see and make happen.
Like I keep saying Kobe was/is an elite volume scorer, he's not elite at much of anything else. Rebounding/Ball IQ/passing/defense/leadership....Kidd is better in all of those categories....so how can a player be better at someone in only 1 category and be considered a better all-around player?

stopped reading after that.. shows that you dont know much about basketball..

 

[goldenchild9]

Kobe was a scoring machine in his prime and he had Shaq to ensure that they were always in a position to win...enabling him to close the show and step up when his number was called.
He was also in his prime in the post-Shaq Lakers era though and his team went absolutely no where. He alienated his teammates, went on the most selfish run in NBA history, getting bounced in the first round when he did scrape into the playoffs.
J-Kidd's prime in NJ leading that band of scrappy players to multiple Finals is much more impressive than Kobe's prime IMO.
Jason did absolutely everything on the court. Derailed offenses, drew charges and steals and came down the floor at breakneck speeds getting anywhere on the court to set up plays that only he could see and make happen.
Like I keep saying Kobe was/is an elite volume scorer, he's not elite at much of anything else. Rebounding/Ball IQ/passing/defense/leadership....Kidd is better in all of those categories....so how can a player be better at someone in only 1 category and be considered a better all-around player?

stopped reading after that.. shows that you dont know much about basketball..

You stopped reading after "Kobe was a scoring machine"...and took that as evidence that I don't know anything about baseball?

How would those 5 words be indicative of my basketball knowledge and how can you glean enough context out of that post without even reading one sentence in its entirety?

What if the sentence read "Kobe was a scoring machine in the 81 point game."?

You wouldn't have even know because you allegedly stopped reading the post after the word machine.

What's good with y'all Kobe diehards?

You're sounding wildly emotional and illogical right now.

Chill out and reply logically.

 

[black entourage inc]

Was thinking about this last night....these rankings and assessment of players are way off and everyone just follows suit because of popular opinion.
When you really break it down....Jason Kidd >>>>> Kobe.
Look at J-kidd's all time rankings as an all around player....look at how he singlehandedly turned around that New Jersey franchise, was the stabilizing factor to help Dallas win their chip, how he does everything that needs to be done on the court, how at 2/3 inches shorter than Kobe he's a better rebounder and defender, how he brings teammates together instead of apart, makes Kerry Kittles and Kenyon look like All-stars instead of Pau's lose passion for the game, he has one of the highest BBall IQ's ever and though he's almost 40 he can still be the difference maker to turn a good team into a champion contender.
#2 in assists, #2 in steals, #3 in 3pters made, creeping into top 50 rebounding all time (will be the only guard on the list, and a PG at that!).
Kobe is a far superior scorer but there is no convincing me that he is a better all-around/greater player than Jason Kidd and several others.

I don't agree with J.Kidd being better than Kobe...but I can see the argument. Very well said(other than the >>>>, either way the gap isn't that big)

I don't like to use if's....but Phil wanted to trade Kobe for Marion/Kidd a while back. I think The Lakers would've been just fine, perhaps even better with no feuds or attitude. They had 2 different roles though, Kobe played his part and did well as did Jason Kidd on his teams. It's not just the Nets, He had Phoenix in the playoffs as well. Kidd was and is one of the best leaders the game has ever seen as well as being a great all around player.

I still think Kobe had the better Career, but a lot of that is due to the teams and situations he's been in. He plays in LA, and whether you like or dislike Kobe there's no denying he's by far one of the most fortunate players to ever play.

If Jason Kidd played with Shaq/Gasol/Dwight he'd be the all time assist leader and would definitely have at least a handful of rings.

But we can only go by what has happened, not ifs...Still though J. Kidd is definitely appreciated. His all around numbers have always been great...still wish he could've somehow been a Laker

 

[acbboyz84]

And the '01 Kings team making it to the Finals in the Eastern Conference would indicate that Kobe is a better player than Jason Kidd was, how?
Looking at your avy I can tell why your posts sound so rabid and nonsensical but take a deep breath and try to keep up with the discussion.

The only thing nonsensical is your thread. It's like you, Doo and Long Stroke made a contract to troll the ST forum lol

I said the 01 Kings would have made Finals if they were to play for the East give you the idea of how tough the West was. The average fans said guys like  Lebron, Iverson, Kidd etc made the Finals as if it was something spectacular compare to making Finals in the West Lol they made it to the Finals and got swept.

The reality is Lakers vs Spurs, vs Kings, vs Portland etc could have been labeled as the real NBA Finals.

Kobe have always been better than Jason Kidd. Kidd is a good point guard in his prime but he's not half the scorer that Kobe was.

Even in his prime with the Nets. GM were willing to trade Kidd. That alone should tell you who's the more valuable asset. Kidd like 40 and still can find a team to call home lol. This dude has been on the trading block for most of his career. Skill wise. No contest here.

Kobe during his prime was unstoppable for many times. Can't say that for Jason Kidd.

smh at this thread going from Kobe being overrated to Jason Kidd being better than him lol

 

[longstroke]

As much as I love Jason Kidd's game, I would have loved seeing him play with Kobe Bryant when the Lakers nixed that trade of Bynum for Kidd a few years back.

I've always felt that I'd dig Kobe's game a bit more, if he didn't have to make decisions with the ball on the floor. I personally think that he is a complete idiot with the ball out on the wing, holds it for far too long, then does not do a very good job at taking advantage of what the defense offers him in regard to open spots on the floor for other players. He'd rather force up a shot, instead of letting a player that he does not have much confidence in, allowing them to take the easier shot.

With a real point guard like Kidd or Chris Paul on the floor making those decisions, Kobe would then be forced to play more of a team game, like he does in the Olympics.

We'll just have to see what Steve Nash does, when he gets his thing on.

 

[acbboyz84]

Golden Child for got to realize that the position Kidd play is point guard. It's his job to get shots for other guys. If Kidd was putting put up 25 ppg and average 10 assist and win at least 2 rings then i would put him in conversation with Kobe.

Gasol was only a 1 time all star before he play with Kobe. Soon after he joined Kobe. Dude get into the All Stars game two times. Kobe gave Gasol two trips to the All stars.

 

[acbboyz84]

Lol at saying kobe is an idiot with the ball. You can clearly tell who didn't watch the games.

Kobe's court vision is underrated as well as his passing ability.

A lot of his great passes goes to waste simply because his teammate bricks wide open 3 or jumpshots

Taking those uncredited assist away. This is a 2 guard who almost put up as many assist as other starting point guard out there in the league.

Underrated

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

at giving him trips to all star game. Like he didn't earn those. Man your Kobe D Riding is really sad.

 

[longstroke]

Lol at saying kobe is an idiot with the ball. You can clearly tell who didn't watch the games.
Kobe's court vision is underrated as well as his passing ability.
A lot of his great passes goes to waste simply because his teammate bricks wide open 3 or jumpshots
Taking those uncredited assist away. This is a 2 guard who almost put up as many assist as other starting point guard out there in the league.
Underrated

Sure, Kobe has his rings, but with what Kidd brings to the table, makes you a better BASKETBALL player all around. So I ask any of you, who has Kobe Bryant made better, and why can't he do that right now?

One of the teams that Kidd took to the finals consisted of this team.
[table][tr][td]

[table][tr][td]rmstrong, Brandon[/td][td]6 ft 5 in  (1.96 m)[/td][td]188 lb (85 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Pepperdine[/td][/tr][tr][td]C[/td][td]35[/td][td] [/td][td]Collins, Jason[/td][td]7 ft 0 in  (2.13 m)[/td][td]255 lb (116 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Stanford[/td][/tr][tr][td]G[/td][td]10[/td][td] [/td][td]Dial, Derrick[/td][td]6 ft 4 in  (1.93 m)[/td][td]184 lb (83 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Eastern Michigan[/td][/tr][tr][td]F[/td][td]54[/td][td] [/td][td]Goodrich, Steve[/td][td]6 ft 10 in  (2.08 m)[/td][td]190 lb (86 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Princeton[/td][/tr][tr][td]G[/td][td]12[/td][td] [/td][td]Harris, Lucious[/td][td]6 ft 5 in  (1.96 m)[/td][td]190 lb (86 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Long Beach[/td][/tr][tr][td]F[/td][td]24[/td][td] [/td][td]Jefferson, Richard[/td][td]6 ft 7 in  (2.01 m)[/td][td]222 lb (101 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Arizona[/td][/tr][tr][td]G[/td][td]8[/td][td] [/td][td]Johnson, Anthony[/td][td]6 ft 3 in  (1.91 m)[/td][td]190 lb (86 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]C of C[/td][/tr][tr][td]G[/td][td]5[/td][td] [/td][td]Kidd, Jason  (C)[/td][td]6 ft 4 in  (1.93 m)[/td][td]204 lb (93 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]California[/td][/tr][tr][td]G[/td][td]30[/td][td] [/td][td]Kittles, Kerry[/td][td]6 ft 5 in  (1.96 m)[/td][td]179 lb (81 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Villanova[/td][/tr][tr][td]C[/td][td]11[/td][td] [/td][td]MacCulloch, Todd[/td][td]7 ft 0 in  (2.13 m)[/td][td]280 lb (127 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Washington[/td][/tr][tr][td]F[/td][td]13[/td][td] [/td][td]Marshall, Donny[/td][td]6 ft 7 in  (2.01 m)[/td][td]230 lb (104 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Connecticut[/td][/tr][tr][td]F[/td][td]6[/td][td] [/td][td]Martin, Kenyon[/td][td]6 ft 9 in  (2.06 m)[/td][td]234 lb (106 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Cincinnati[/td][/tr][tr][td]F[/td][td]21[/td][td] [/td][td]Scalabrine, Brian[/td][td]6 ft 9 in  (2.06 m)[/td][td]241 lb (109 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Southern California[/td][/tr][tr][td]F[/td][td]50[/td][td] [/td][td]Slater, Reggie[/td][td]6 ft 7 in  (2.01 m)[/td][td]215 lb (98 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Wyoming[/td][/tr][tr][td]F[/td][td]44[/td][td] [/td][td]Van Horn, Keith[/td][td]6 ft 10 in  (2.08 m)[/td][td]220 lb (100 kg)[/td][td] [/td][td]Utah[/td][/tr][tr][td]F/C[/td][td]34[/td][td] [/td][td]Williams, Aaron[/td][/tr][/table]

[/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr][/table]
Now, you've said that the East was weak in those years, right?

Detroit stormed into LA, then put a good foot in LA's butts in the year 2004.

So if the east was garbage, what was the west?

 

[do be doo]

[COLOR=#red]LONGSTROKE [/COLOR](no ayo) and [COLOR=#red]Member 2323[/COLOR] holding this thread down for the last couple of pages.

GREAT STUFF from these 2



Also great thread OP.

 

[acbboyz84]

Sure, Kobe has his rings, but with what Kidd brings to the table, makes you a better BASKETBALL player all around. So I ask any of you, who has Kobe Bryant made better, and why can't he do that right now?

One of the teams that Kidd took to the finals consisted of this team.


[table][TR]
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Now, you've said that the East was weak in those years, right?

Detroit stormed into LA, then put a good foot in LA's butts in the year 2004.

So if the east was garbage, what was the west?

We're not arguing about who is the best all around player are we? There are many all around players in NBA history. Not many of them have the career like that of Kobe nor win a ring. If John Stockton have half the physical ability of Kobe the Jazz would have won at least a ring. Kobe is a scorer , Jkidd is not. Can Jkidd put up 30, 40 points like that of Kobe while having to play point guard? Nope

The East was putrid from 00-03. Top to bottom the East can't hold a candle to the West. FACT

West: Kings, Spurs, Lakers, Portland
East: Pacers, Philly, Toronto, Detroit, Nets LOL

Team Nets beat to get to Finals. Boston, Charlotte, Pacer lol

It's a fact that making the Finals from the East was way easier than the West.

Piston didn't beat the Lakers until 2004 and they only beat the Lakers because Malone was hurt and Gary Payton/Fisher couldnt guard Chauncey Billup pick and roll. The Piston wouldn't have beat the Lakers if they were fully healthy top to bottom.

In the past 10 years. The Spurs and Lakers won a total of 9 rings. All west teams

That's why Lebron stay on the East. Playing on a stacked team + easier road to Finals.

You clearly didnt watch basketball if you say the East wasn't bad

 

[acbboyz84]

Here look up the opponent that the Nets played to get to the 2002 NBA Finals. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Playoffs

Look at the team the Lakers had to beat to get to Finals in the same year.

Now remind you that the Nets got SWEPT in the Finals lol.

If the Lakers and Nets were to switch division. The Nets would be a 2nd round exit team and the Lakers would have easily sweep every other East team to get to 2002 Finals

 

[acbboyz84]

View media item 166165

 

[CP1708]

[quote name="CP1708"]Jason Kidd > Kobe Bryant.

Did you bother to read the argument, though?[/quote]


Not a ****** chance I'm readin that garbage.

There is not one single reputable NBA fan on planet earth that would rate Kidd over Kobe. Or even in the same breath. It's a joke.

This thread is an abortion filled with nothing but trolls baiting Kobe/Laker fans. Look at the top 5-6 posters in here. ONE Laker fan.

What someone should do is open a Kobe is underrated thread and get 60 more pages of wasted space so I can read Rod Strickland > Kobe, Gerald Wilkins > Kobe etc.

 

[acbboyz84]

at giving him trips to all star game. Like he didn't earn those. Man your Kobe D Riding is really sad.

This is for you regard your distaste for Kobe successes
Jeal·ous
adj.
1. Fearful or wary of being supplanted; apprehensive of losing affection or position.
2.
a. Resentful or bitter in rivalry; envious: jealous of the success of others.
b. Inclined to suspect rivalry.
3. Having to do with or arising from feelings of envy, apprehension, or bitterness: jealous thoughts.
4. Vigilant in guarding something: We are jealous of our good name.
5. Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.


I also didn't say Gasol didn't earn but Gasol all star appearance has a lot to do with Kobe. Same with Bynum.
Gasol 1 time all star in a span of 7 years. All of sudden playing with Kobe made him 2 trips in a row. Gasol admit to reporters that Kobe made him elevate his game.

 

[acbboyz84]

Not a ****** chance I'm readin that garbage.
There is not one single reputable NBA fan on planet earth that would rate Kidd over Kobe. Or even in the same breath. It's a joke.
This thread is an abortion filled with nothing but trolls baiting Kobe/Laker fans. Look at the top 5-6 posters in here. ONE Laker fan.
What someone should do is open a Kobe is underrated thread and get 60 more pages of wasted space so I can read Rod Strickland > Kobe, Gerald Wilkins > Kobe etc.

You know what. Im thinking about creating an MJ is overrated thread see how many pages it will get to lol

 

[thegoldenchild]

You stopped reading after "Kobe was a scoring machine"...and took that as evidence that I don't know anything about baseball?
How would those 5 words be indicative of my basketball knowledge and how can you glean enough context out of that post without even reading one sentence in its entirety?
What if the sentence read "Kobe was a scoring machine in the 81 point game."?
You wouldn't have even know because you allegedly stopped reading the post after the word machine.
What's good with y'all Kobe diehards?
You're sounding wildly emotional and illogical right now.
Chill out and reply logically.

i sound illogical?

the sentence "Kobe WAS a scoring machine", means past tense.. so he was, and isnt anymore.. which means that even though he leads the league in scoring, he is no longer a scoring machine..

besides, people are comparing a point guard to a shooting guard.. if people are gonna do that you might as well compare john stockton to michael jordan and make an argument who's better

 

[CP1708]

Can Goldenchild, and Goldenchild9 please not argue, confuses the **** outta me.

AC, do not create that MJ overrated thread, that isn't the point, don't stoop to their level.

 

[goldenchild9]

You stopped reading after "Kobe was a scoring machine"...and took that as evidence that I don't know anything about baseball?
How would those 5 words be indicative of my basketball knowledge and how can you glean enough context out of that post without even reading one sentence in its entirety?
What if the sentence read "Kobe was a scoring machine in the 81 point game."?
You wouldn't have even know because you allegedly stopped reading the post after the word machine.
What's good with y'all Kobe diehards?
You're sounding wildly emotional and illogical right now.
Chill out and reply logically.

i sound illogical?

the sentence "Kobe WAS a scoring machine", means past tense.. so he was, and isnt anymore.. which means that even though he leads the league in scoring, he is no longer a scoring machine..

besides, people are comparing a point guard to a shooting guard.. if people are gonna do that you might as well compare john stockton to michael jordan and make an argument who's better

I used "was" because we were talking about a specific time frame in the past tense.

I said several times in this post that Kobe is an elite scorer in the present tense.

Y'all so sensitive

And Stockton and Jordan can easily be compared. Jordan was a much better all-around player. Open and shut case.

What was so hard about that?

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

at giving him trips to all star game. Like he didn't earn those. Man your Kobe D Riding is really sad.

This is for you regard your distaste for Kobe successes
Jeal·ous
adj.
1. Fearful or wary of being supplanted; apprehensive of losing affection or position.
2.
a. Resentful or bitter in rivalry; envious: jealous of the success of others.
b. Inclined to suspect rivalry.
3. Having to do with or arising from feelings of envy, apprehension, or bitterness: jealous thoughts.
4. Vigilant in guarding something: We are jealous of our good name.
5. Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.


I also didn't say Gasol didn't earn but Gasol all star appearance has a lot to do with Kobe. Same with Bynum.
Gasol 1 time all star in a span of 7 years. All of sudden playing with Kobe made him 2 trips in a row. Gasol admit to reporters that Kobe made him elevate his game.

I'm jealous of your Kobe Fandom? try again

So sad



Jealous?

 

[member 2323]

Kobe Bryant getting 50 wins and going into the playoffs in the Western Conference when it was extremely deep with Jordan Farmar, Smush Parker, Kwame and Luke Walton>>>>>J Kidd going to finals with a solid cast of guys when the East was putrid.
I understand your point man, but Kidd just simply isn't better than Kobe was...Gotta score to win games and Kobe is the second best perimeter scorer ever. And he was a really good lock down defender through his 20's and an excellent re bounder when the time called for it (15 reb in game 7, 2010).

First of all, Bean Bryant never won 50 games during those years.

Secondly, too many people like yourself have absolutely no idea about the sport. "You have to score to win games..." is your reason for why Kobe is better than Kidd?

Traditionally, you have to be an excellent player and make your teammates better. You don't have to score.

With Bean, you don't have to do much... you just win the "3 free rings from Shaq" lottery and then you win the "Stern & Co. needs L.A. to be a contender for $$$ so we'll give them lopsided trades and lopsided calls" lottery.

What does that add up to? 5 free rings.

Anybody who thinks Kobe Bryant is a better basketball player than Jason Kidd is a joke.

 

[member 2323]

what role player has left the lakers and flourished without playing next to kobe?
first person that comes to mind is caron butler.
but anyone else? brian cook? chucky atkins? tierre browm? kwame? devean george? slava? mihm? smush? turiaf? walton? evans? farmer? sasha? ariza? crittenton? mbenga? fisher? shannon brown?
theres a knock on kobe he doesn't make players better, but im sure all those players, and many more not listed, enjoyed career years for themselves while playing with kobe, not without. they were actually role players on the lakers. off the lakers? many couldn't make it and stay in the league after.
kobe may not be a playmaker like jason kidd, but lets not make kobe out to be the worst teammate of all time.

WHAT???

You're going to name all these scrubs and act like they did anything in L.A.? Stop it.

These guys were trash in L.A. and trash outside of L.A., with the exception of Brown and Ariza.

They didn't enjoy playing in L.A. because of Kobe, they enjoyed playing in L.A. because of L.A.

I cannot believe you wrote what you wrote.