IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[sea manup]

he's not overrated but he gets OVER CREDITED. During the Shaq years Kobe was the 2nd option. He was the man tho during the last two championships but having those skilled big men helped ALOT (Odom, Gasol, Bynum). Kobe's an all time great tho, I'll admit that.

like this statement right here, i honestly have never seen anyone say kobe was the #1 option on those 2000-2002 lakers teams. how is kobe being over credited for that when it is widely acknowledged that he played a vital role in the championships but it was still shaq's team? 

"jordan was the man on those teams but pippen helped ALOT"

"magic was the man on those teams but kareem and worthy helped ALOT"

"bird was the man on those teams but those skilled big men helped ALOT"

"shaq was the man on those teams but kobe helped ALOT"

i can say this for anyone who has ever won a championship ever

 

[sea manup]

Actually, you're wrong. Most people give credit to players that score 34 on terrible shooting because most people that watch the NBA, and the Lakers in particular, have no knowledge of the sport + their math skills are terrible.

I will never give a guy credit for scoring 30+ points on 37.5% shooting. Only people with no knowledge of the game + no math skills will do that (98% of Lakers supporters).

what would your reason be (im sure you have one) for not giving kobe any credit for 35 points on 46% shooting vs the thunder? 

or 29 on 59% vs the hornets?

 

[member 2323]

what would your reason be (im sure you have one) for not giving kobe any credit for 35 points on 46% shooting vs the thunder? 

or 29 on 59% vs the hornets?

I'm not going to sit here and add/subtract brownie points every time he has a good/bad shooting game. It doesn't take a genius to see that

The man has played 16.25 seasons, he has never shot 47% (which isn't even great) in ANY of those seasons, and it a career 45% shooter.

I will never give credit to a guy who has X amount of points ONLY because he stayed healthy and jacked up tons of shots.

I will never give credit to a guy that is constantly praised for 5 rings that revolved a lot more around LUCK rather than actual ability.

I will never give credit to a guy that is has had, hands down, THEE most loaded lineups in the history of basketball, yet only won 5 championships.

People praise Kobe Bryant for 5 championships and think he is a top 30 player all-time because of those rings.

Realistically, the fact that he won (only) 5 rings with those lineups is the reason why he is overrated by a margin that could only be measured in "light year" terms.

Any player who is top 30 all-time with those lineups would have won at least 8-9 rings. The players that are top 5 all-time (Jordan, LeBron) would have won a dozen championships.

You don't have to agree with me, but that doesn't change the truth.

Where do you draw the line on what category of players could have won 5 rings with those rosters and Phil?

You guys really think if you give Tim Hardaway 17 seasons with those rosters/coaches... that he wouldn't have 5 rings?

He would have 5 rings even if he missed 4 of those 17 years due to injuries.

 

[member 2323]

So whenever someone brings up the Lakers horrific record when Bean drops 30, it's always some stupid/clueless opinions like these:

"The bench didn't show up."

"Trade Gasol."

"Kobe came out passing and then saw his teammates playing without passion so he went into "attack mode."

Can we talk about how the Lakers, minus Kobe "Bean" Bryant, shot 51% today? It wasn't enough because they couldn't compensate for this pathetic, spoiled brat's 37.5% shooting.

 

[vtotheinay]

I'm not going to sit here and add/subtract brownie points every time he has a good/bad shooting game. It doesn't take a genius to see that


The man has played 16.25 seasons, he has never shot 47% (which isn't even great) in ANY of those seasons, and it a career 45% shooter.

I will never give credit to a guy who has X amount of points ONLY because he stayed healthy and jacked up tons of shots.

I will never give credit to a guy that is constantly praised for 5 rings that revolved a lot more around LUCK rather than actual ability.

I will never give credit to a guy that is has had, hands down, THEE most loaded lineups in the history of basketball, yet only won 5 championships.

People praise Kobe Bryant for 5 championships and think he is a top 30 player all-time because of those rings.

Realistically, the fact that he won (only) 5 rings with those lineups is the reason why he is overrated by a margin that could only be measured in "light year" terms.


Any player who is top 30 all-time with those lineups would have won at least 8-9 rings. The players that are top 5 all-time (Jordan, LeBron) would have won a dozen championships.


You don't have to agree with me, but that doesn't change the truth.


Where do you draw the line on what category of players could have won 5 rings with those rosters and Phil?

You guys really think if you give Tim Hardaway 17 seasons with those rosters/coaches... that he wouldn't have 5 rings?

He would have 5 rings even if he missed 4 of those 17 years due to injuries.

oh really? how in the world can you prove that?

 

[sea manup]

I'm not going to sit here and add/subtract brownie points every time he has a good/bad shooting game. It doesn't take a genius to see that

The man has played 16.25 seasons, he has never shot 47% (which isn't even great) in ANY of those seasons, and it a career 45% shooter.

I will never give credit to a guy who has X amount of points ONLY because he stayed healthy and jacked up tons of shots.

I will never give credit to a guy that is constantly praised for 5 rings that revolved a lot more around LUCK rather than actual ability.

I will never give credit to a guy that is has had, hands down, THEE most loaded lineups in the history of basketball, yet only won 5 championships.

People praise Kobe Bryant for 5 championships and think he is a top 30 player all-time because of those rings.

Realistically, the fact that he won (only) 5 rings with those lineups is the reason why he is overrated by a margin that could only be measured in "light year" terms.

Any player who is top 30 all-time with those lineups would have won at least 8-9 rings. The players that are top 5 all-time (Jordan, LeBron) would have won a dozen championships.

You don't have to agree with me, but that doesn't change the truth.

Where do you draw the line on what category of players could have won 5 rings with those rosters and Phil?

You guys really think if you give Tim Hardaway 17 seasons with those rosters/coaches... that he wouldn't have 5 rings?

He would have 5 rings even if he missed 4 of those 17 years due to injuries.

cool, good for you man. keep on thinking that

doesnt change the truth that kobe is one of the greatest players to play the game 

 

[noblekane]

i think member2323 is smush parker

what do you get out of arguing for hours with kobe fans? do you turn off your computer afterwards and say "YES! I sure told them about that dirty "bean"!"

what is your real niketalk screen name because obviously this is a troll screen name?

I mean i can understand why a kobe fan would defend their idol/hero because they are fans you know thats they boy they like the dude but why does a hater waste so much time on somebody they despise?

makes absolutely no sense....

 

[sea manup]

oh really? how in the world can you prove that?

no you are going about this all wrong. proof is not important

here let me break it down for you

1. have an opinion

2. state that opinion on the internet

3. ~MAGIC HAPPENS~

4. your opinion is now undeniable fact

5. ???

6. profit

its how the internet works

 

[powerballin]

Only 5 rings.....dude said only 5. 

That how I know you don't understand or respect the level of play in the NBA. 

 

[sea manup]

i think member2323 is smush parker
what do you get out of arguing for hours with kobe fans? do you turn off your computer afterwards and say "YES! I sure told them about that dirty "bean"!"
what is your real niketalk screen name because obviously this is a troll screen name?
I mean i can understand why a kobe fan would defend their idol/hero because they are fans you know thats they boy they like the dude but why does a hater waste so much time on somebody they despise?
makes absolutely no sense....

this is fun though... lets keep it going

 

[alimuhammad]

If you acknowledge that Kobe is a top 5-10 all time player then he is not "overrated".  It is a matter of opinion.  I do see most Kobe haters in this thread speaking with their emotions rather than fact.  I just don't see how someone who is 1/5 with 30k points, 5 rings, 7 finals appearances, an MVP (would have had more if Colorado never happened), countless all star games, gold medals, one of the most peer respected games, etc., is an overrated player.  It's one of the most solid careers the sport has ever seen. Period.  

For the record, I am a die hard Knicks fan.  

 

[misterp0315]

If you acknowledge that Kobe is a top 5-10 all time player then he is not "overrated".  It is a matter of opinion.  I do see most Kobe haters in this thread speaking with their emotions rather than fact.  I just don't see how someone who is 1/5 with 30k points, 5 rings, 7 finals appearances, an MVP (would have had more if Colorado never happened), countless all star games, gold medals, one of the most peer respected games, etc., is an overrated player.  It's one of the most solid careers the sport has ever seen. Period.  

For the record, I am a die hard Knicks fan.  

All of this.

As I've said already...you can make an argument that a lot of great things, people, athletes...whatever...is overrated.

 

[member 2323]

Only 5 rings.....dude said only 5. 

That how I know you don't understand or respect the level of play in the NBA. 

Don't understand the level of competition in the NBA?

Please.

You obviously don't understand how much the luck factor plays in the NBA. There was only one Shaq. Any all-star would have won 3+ rings if they had Shaq in his most beastly 8 years. What part of that don't you understand. Meanwhile, you have guys like Pierce, Iverson, Allen, Garnett, LeBron, CP3, etc., etc whose first 8 years were absolutely wasted with crappy teams. Those guys could easily have won 5+ rings with Shaq because they weren't spoiled brats who would of broke up a team.

The guy was gifted 3 rings because he won the Shaq lottery.

Then he was mad because Shaq got all the MVPs, so he only wanted to win the 4th ring under his terms... thus losing the 2004 Finals. His selfishness cost two legends that are easily better than him in Malone and Payton (cost him a ring at the time). Karl Malone deserves more rings than Kobe Bryant. He has zero, Kobe has 5. That is simply a product of luck.

Then he demanded that Shaq be traded.

So what did he have now? For 3 years, he was stuck with crappy teams that better players (like I named above) had for their first 8-12 years. He didn't do CRAP with these teams, but nobody mentions that. The excuse is always that he had no help. So? What did he do? He cried like a ***** and demanded a trade. Seriously, what is there to respect about this guy?

Poor Kobe, he "didn't have any help" for 3 measly years, meanwhile others went their first decade and beyond with no help. And those last 2-3 statements are just me going along with the theory that guys like Odom and Butler (who both averaged 15 ppg) were "no help."

Then in comes Gasol, who takes this team from being a .500 team to 3 straight Finals, along with the emergence of Bynum. Now Kobe has 3 unguardable 7-footers on his team... how many other players have had that luxury?

So now the Lakers get back to Finals and get scraped by Boston in what they called "the most lopsided 6 game series ever."

Then the next year, they win because of a Yao injury in the West combined with the Celtics' inability to fairly defend their title because of KG's injury.

Then comes 2010, when Perkins gets injured in game 6 and doesn't play game 7. The same game 7 in which Bean had one of the most embarrassing shooting games ever, but Artest and Gasol saved the day.

But who gets all the credit for 2009 & 2010? Kobe. Why?

Who gets all the blame in 2012? Gasol. Why?

The answer is simple: The guy is nothing more than an average shooter. However, if an average shooter takes an insane amount of shots (hurting his team in the meantime), they will score tons of points. But people are too dumb to realize that.

So back to your comment... my opinions have absolutely NOTHING to do with a lack of basketball knowledge. They simply have to do with the fact that I'm not another dumb human that is manipulated by the media.

What is so difficult to understand about "the guy that has a championship caliber team for 15 different seasons is going to end up with more rings then the guy who had a championship caliber team 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 different seasons."

And this is without me bringing up the fact that he was lucky to land on the team that would get considerable advantage in the playoffs due to faulty officiating. Sacramento series, Minnesota series, D-Fish fouling Brent Barry in game 4, no call.

So once again... what is there to respect about this guy? I respect guys that put up with whatever situation they were in (Reggie, CP3, LeBron) way more than spoiled brats that were given everything to them to begin with, only to cry when those things were temporarily revoked.

 

[longstroke]

i think member2323 is smush parker
what do you get out of arguing for hours with kobe fans? do you turn off your computer afterwards and say "YES! I sure told them about that dirty "bean"!"
what is your real niketalk screen name because obviously this is a troll screen name?
I mean i can understand why a kobe fan would defend their idol/hero because they are fans you know thats they boy they like the dude but why does a hater waste so much time on somebody they despise?
makes absolutely no sense....

This is exactly the crap that I was addressing. NOBODY can have anything to say against Kobe's game, without being called a hater, or having an ulterior motive.

It's got to be Coach Hubie, it's got to be Smush Parker, Bleacher Report isn't credible, troll, troll, troll, blah, blah, blah.

The biggest issue is that there are Mod's who play into this, then falling for those claims, then banning people.

It's flat out disgusting as to what goes on here on this site in regard to the defense and protection of Kobe Bryant. There was a time that this sort of thread could not even get made, let alone go as far as this thread has gone.

 

[darthdeezy]

There was only one Shaq? True. Goes both ways. There is only one Kobe. Oh wait, Shaq played those Finals games 1 against 5 huh? Kobe didnt do squat.
And you can only ponder what the success would be if Shaq had Pierce, KG or Iverson instead. Kobe succeeded and was just as dominant (at the 2 spot) as Shaq was at the 5.

Shaq already stated the fact that Buss didnt want to pay him and thats what caused the Miami trade. Shaq wasnt even the man on that championship team. Wade was.

Perkins not playing game 7 in 2010? Cry me a river. Injuries part of the game son. That was a defensive minded game for both teams. Hence the low final score. And yes, Kobe had a bad shooting night. But dude had 15 rebounds. Fifteen. Thats alot for a 2 guard. And if a team is outrebounding an opponent they will win. 9 times out of 10. Guaranteed.

Who said he was getting "all the credit" for '09 and '10? I only heard it hear. He was merely clearly the man and the first option on those championship squads. No one complained that Shaq got all the credit during the 3peat and he had no Center even close to playing to his level. There was no Ewing or Hakeem or Admiral to get in his way. Yet Kobe got his against all these so called "Kobe stoppers". And if they gonna focus on callin themselves a Kobe stopper that says alot.

Even Kobe's peers and the current cats that are the best right now consider Kobe one of the greatest. Lebron. Durant. Magic. Jordan himself said only Kobe can be compared to him. If you're blind and cant even respect that.. Dont know what to say dude.

 

[sea manup]

This is exactly the crap that I was addressing. NOBODY can have anything to say against Kobe's game, without being called a hater, or having an ulterior motive.

It's got to be Coach Hubie, it's got to be Smush Parker, Bleacher Report isn't credible, troll, troll, troll, blah, blah, blah.

The biggest issue is that there are Mod's who play into this, then falling for those claims, then banning people.

It's flat out disgusting as to what goes on here on this site in regard to the defense and protection of Kobe Bryant. There was a time that this sort of thread could not even get made, let alone go as far as this thread has gone.

go to the lakers/nba threads there are tons of people complain about kobes shooting too much, kobe being too passive, kobe *****ing about calls, kobe not playing d, kobe not passing to dwight, kobe taking really bad shots, ect. stop acting like you are the only person that sees flaws in kobe's game, sports would be boring if everyone agreed with one another. why are you crying about how this thread would not have been made in the past? you were the guy talking about how no one here could make it in the real world yet you are the one crying about mods on an internet form.

looking at this thread it seems that NOBODY can defend kobe in any way without being called a kobe fan boy. i dont even care what you think of kobe, i just find it funny that you come into a forum that is dominated by lakers (and knicks) fans, state an unpopular opinion about kobe then cries about how the mods are so unfair when someone does not agree with you. someone insulted you online? oh boo hoo, pm me your address and ill send you over a box of tissues (if you pay for shipping i throw in some tampons) 

 

[deuce king]

 Kobe succeeded and was just as dominant (at the 2 spot) as Shaq was at the 5.
 

Bless your heart.

 

[longstroke]

go to the lakers/nba threads there are tons of people complain about kobes shooting too much, kobe being too passive, kobe *****ing about calls, kobe not playing d, kobe not passing to dwight, kobe taking really bad shots, ect. stop acting like you are the only person that sees flaws in kobe's game, sports would be boring if everyone agreed with one another. why are you crying about how this thread would not have been made in the past? you were the guy talking about how no one here could make it in the real world yet you are the one crying about mods on an internet form.

looking at this thread it seems that NOBODY can defend kobe in any way without being called a kobe fan boy. i dont even care what you think of kobe, i just find it funny that you come into a forum that is dominated by lakers (and knicks) fans, state an unpopular opinion about kobe then cries about how the mods are so unfair when someone does not agree with you. someone insulted you online? oh boo hoo, pm me your address and ill send you over a box of tissues (if you pay for shipping i throw in some tampons) 

See right here?

I've seen people suspended for saying less, much less. 

I was suspended for asking someone if they wanted a lollipop.

As far as going into that Lakers thread and commenting against anything Laker related is concerned, that's impossible to do. This especially true when you have a moderator who sits in on that thread, watching anyone who comes in, and then commenting on anyone who'll have anything detrimental to say against either the Lakers, or Kobe Bryant. Once the report button is pressed, he is on the case. You even have people saying, it's a shame as to how a grown man can have so much to say about Kobe, and he doesn't even know Kobe. 

How can you have so much hate, for someone that you don't even know?

WTH does any of that have to do with commenting on Kobe's game?

Man, screw Kobe Bryant. A Pac Man result is in order. With the way that the Lakers are looking right now, that result is coming pretty damned soon.

I can't wait to see who people on Nike Talk will blame at the end of this season.

It won't be Mike Brown.

 

[sea manup]

See right here?

I've seen people suspended for saying less, much less. 

I was suspended for asking someone if they wanted a lollipop.

As far as going into that Lakers thread and commenting against anything Laker related is concerned, that's impossible to do. This especially true when you have a moderator who sits in on that thread, watching anyone who comes in, and then commenting on anyone who'll have anything detrimental to say against either the Lakers, or Kobe Bryant. Once the report button is pressed, he is on the case. You even have people saying, it's a shame as to how a grown man can have so much to say about Kobe, and he doesn't even know Kobe. 

How can you have so much hate, for someone that you don't even know?

WTH does any of that have to do with commenting on Kobe's game?

Man, screw Kobe Bryant. A Pac Man result is in order. With the way that the Lakers are looking right now, that result is coming pretty damned soon.

I can't wait to see who people on Nike Talk will blame at the end of this season.

It won't be Mike Brown.

: - (

 

[tripda6]

I'm not going to sit here and add/subtract brownie points every time he has a good/bad shooting game. It doesn't take a genius to see that

The man has played 16.25 seasons, he has never shot 47% (which isn't even great) in ANY of those seasons, and it a career 45% shooter.

I will never give credit to a guy who has X amount of points ONLY because he stayed healthy and jacked up tons of shots.

I will never give credit to a guy that is constantly praised for 5 rings that revolved a lot more around LUCK rather than actual ability.

I will never give credit to a guy that is has had, hands down, THEE most loaded lineups in the history of basketball, yet only won 5 championships.

People praise Kobe Bryant for 5 championships and think he is a top 30 player all-time because of those rings.

Realistically, the fact that he won (only) 5 rings with those lineups is the reason why he is overrated by a margin that could only be measured in "light year" terms.

Any player who is top 30 all-time with those lineups would have won at least 8-9 rings. The players that are top 5 all-time (Jordan, LeBron) would have won a dozen championships.

You don't have to agree with me, but that doesn't change the truth.

Where do you draw the line on what category of players could have won 5 rings with those rosters and Phil?

You guys really think if you give Tim Hardaway 17 seasons with those rosters/coaches... that he wouldn't have 5 rings?

He would have 5 rings even if he missed 4 of those 17 years due to injuries.

cool, good for you man. keep on thinking that

doesnt change the truth that kobe is one of the greatest players to play the game 

Only 5 rings.....dude said only 5. 

That how I know you don't understand or respect the level of play in the NBA. 

Don't understand the level of competition in the NBA?

Please.

You obviously don't understand how much the luck factor plays in the NBA. There was only one Shaq. Any all-star would have won 3+ rings if they had Shaq in his most beastly 8 years. What part of that don't you understand. Meanwhile, you have guys like Pierce, Iverson, Allen, Garnett, LeBron, CP3, etc., etc whose first 8 years were absolutely wasted with crappy teams. Those guys could easily have won 5+ rings with Shaq because they weren't spoiled brats who would of broke up a team.

The guy was gifted 3 rings because he won the Shaq lottery.

Then he was mad because Shaq got all the MVPs, so he only wanted to win the 4th ring under his terms... thus losing the 2004 Finals. His selfishness cost two legends that are easily better than him in Malone and Payton (cost him a ring at the time). Karl Malone deserves more rings than Kobe Bryant. He has zero, Kobe has 5. That is simply a product of luck.

Then he demanded that Shaq be traded.

So what did he have now? For 3 years, he was stuck with crappy teams that better players (like I named above) had for their first 8-12 years. He didn't do CRAP with these teams, but nobody mentions that. The excuse is always that he had no help. So? What did he do? He cried like a ***** and demanded a trade. Seriously, what is there to respect about this guy?

Poor Kobe, he "didn't have any help" for 3 measly years, meanwhile others went their first decade and beyond with no help. And those last 2-3 statements are just me going along with the theory that guys like Odom and Butler (who both averaged 15 ppg) were "no help."

Then in comes Gasol, who takes this team from being a .500 team to 3 straight Finals, along with the emergence of Bynum. Now Kobe has 3 unguardable 7-footers on his team... how many other players have had that luxury?

So now the Lakers get back to Finals and get scraped by Boston in what they called "the most lopsided 6 game series ever."

Then the next year, they win because of a Yao injury in the West combined with the Celtics' inability to fairly defend their title because of KG's injury.

Then comes 2010, when Perkins gets injured in game 6 and doesn't play game 7. The same game 7 in which Bean had one of the most embarrassing shooting games ever, but Artest and Gasol saved the day.

But who gets all the credit for 2009 & 2010? Kobe. Why?

Who gets all the blame in 2012? Gasol. Why?

The answer is simple: The guy is nothing more than an average shooter. However, if an average shooter takes an insane amount of shots (hurting his team in the meantime), they will score tons of points. But people are too dumb to realize that.

So back to your comment... my opinions have absolutely NOTHING to do with a lack of basketball knowledge. They simply have to do with the fact that I'm not another dumb human that is manipulated by the media.

What is so difficult to understand about "the guy that has a championship caliber team for 15 different seasons is going to end up with more rings then the guy who had a championship caliber team 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 different seasons."

And this is without me bringing up the fact that he was lucky to land on the team that would get considerable advantage in the playoffs due to faulty officiating. Sacramento series, Minnesota series, D-Fish fouling Brent Barry in game 4, no call.

So once again... what is there to respect about this guy? I respect guys that put up with whatever situation they were in (Reggie, CP3, LeBron) way more than spoiled brats that were given everything to them to begin with, only to cry when those things were temporarily revoked.

youre a real smart dude...

this makes a whole bunch of sense...

Kobe is garbage...

 

[goldenchild9]

Was thinking about this last night....these rankings and assessment of players are way off and everyone just follows suit because of popular opinion.

When you really break it down....Jason Kidd >>>>> Kobe.

Look at J-kidd's all time rankings as an all around player....look at how he singlehandedly turned around that New Jersey franchise, was the stabilizing factor to help Dallas win their chip, how he does everything that needs to be done on the court, how at 2/3 inches shorter than Kobe he's a better rebounder and defender, how he brings teammates together instead of apart, makes Kerry Kittles and Kenyon look like All-stars instead of Pau's lose passion for the game, he has one of the highest BBall IQ's ever and though he's almost 40 he can still be the difference maker to turn a good team into a champion contender.

#2 in assists, #2 in steals, #3 in 3pters made, creeping into top 50 rebounding all time (will be the only guard on the list, and a PG at that!).

Kobe is a far superior scorer but there is no convincing me that he is a better all-around/greater player than Jason Kidd and several others.

 

[darthdeezy]

Kobe is garbage now eh?
Kobe show up to play pick up ball wit you, you dont want him he's garbage.

Thats the most ridiculous statement in this thread.
I already stated mine. Neither over or under. Imagine an NBA with no Kobe or Duncan in the past decade.
What or who would we be talking about.

 

[longstroke]

Was thinking about this last night....these rankings and assessment of players are way off and everyone just follows suit because of popular opinion.
When you really break it down....Jason Kidd >>>>> Kobe.
Look at J-kidd's all time rankings as an all around player....look at how he singlehandedly turned around that New Jersey franchise, was the stabilizing factor to help Dallas win their chip, how he does everything that needs to be done on the court, how at 2/3 inches shorter than Kobe he's a better rebounder and defender, how he brings teammates together instead of apart, makes Kerry Kittles and Kenyon look like All-stars instead of Pau's lose passion for the game, he has one of the highest BBall IQ's ever and though he's almost 40 he can still be the difference maker to turn a good team into a champion contender.
#2 in assists, #2 in steals, #3 in 3pters made, creeping into top 50 rebounding all time (will be the only guard on the list, and a PG at that!).
Kobe is a far superior scorer but there is no convincing me that he is a better all-around/greater player than Jason Kidd and several others.

Repped lika'mofo.

Kidd will go down as one of the best pg's, ever. Superior basketball intellect compared to Kobe as well.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Watching J. Kidd has been great this year and I think he's the best PG since Magic but Kobe was just a machine in his prime in a way J Kidd wasn't...Kobe would not let his team lose and J. Kidd's issues with shooting throughout much of his career sets him back from where Kobe was...

 

[goldenchild9]

Kobe was a scoring machine in his prime and he had Shaq to ensure that they were always in a position to win...enabling him to close the show and step up when his number was called.

He was also in his prime in the post-Shaq Lakers era though and his team went absolutely no where. He alienated his teammates, went on the most selfish run in NBA history, getting bounced in the first round when he did scrape into the playoffs.

J-Kidd's prime in NJ leading that band of scrappy players to multiple Finals is much more impressive than Kobe's prime IMO.

Jason did absolutely everything on the court. Derailed offenses, drew charges and steals and came down the floor at breakneck speeds getting anywhere on the court to set up plays that only he could see and make happen.

Like I keep saying Kobe was/is an elite volume scorer, he's not elite at much of anything else. Rebounding/Ball IQ/passing/defense/leadership....Kidd is better in all of those categories....so how can a player be better at someone in only 1 category and be considered a better all-around player?