IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[longstroke]

i never said anything about your smush parker post, morris was just the first thing that popped up on google (recent news) for me. i was not trying to say that kobe is the greatest team mate of all time, i used it as a simple example to show you that you were wrong with your statement. 

i still dont understand what you are trying to prove, of course lakers and kobe fans will hype up kobe to the point that some can see him as overrated, but thats just lakers/kobe fans. go to any of the team threads and you will see knicks fans hyping up melo to the point that he seems over rated, clippers fans hyping up cp3 to the point that he seems over rated. its part of being a fan of a team. im sure there are bulls fans that think jordan can cure the blind and walk on water, but does that mean jordan is overrated in general?

Now here we go with this again. So now, we post Jordan's stats versus Kobe's, just to show that Kobe Bryant should not be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan, citing proof like this,

"He doesn't shoot the same percentage [.455] as Michael [.497]. He has the same characteristics as Michael, but he's not the same player. It takes nothing away from him -- he's a great player in his own right."

http://www.foxsportswest.com/msn/03...n-Lakers-c/landing_lakers.html?blockID=440081

and the Kobe fans on here will try and kill the cred of the source, then saying,

just because he is second to Jordan, that makes him overrated?

it's that same stupid, idiotic, circular argument. Kobe Bryant does nothing wrong, and they want to know why people are participating in this thread, and then why this thread is even allowed to exist.

I've said enough.

Kobe Bryant is overrated. Just like with Pac Man, I have a funny feeling that we are going to soon find out, just how overrated he is.

 

[deuce king]

Another game......another loss by Kobe and Co. Good job Kobe, your almost at 30 loses champ.

 

[scoop0625]

short of what? you say his team play is overrated, i have never heard anyone say kobe is magic johnson or steve nash. Most non laker fans dont think he is a good teammate and think he is selfish, so how is he overrated? you say his defense is overrated, compared to who? no one is claiming that hes ron artest or pippen, if you go to the lakers thread you will see plenty of people that wish kobe would play better D, so again, how is he overrated? 

I think that Kobe is not overrated. I got him in the top ten (around 7th). Kobe being top 5 is still debatable. I think when Longstroke mentions that his defense is overrated is because of all the first-team selections he has be getting the last few years before last season because he did not deserve them. He has not played much defense like the last 4 seasons but still getting the selections. If Kobe was not getting those selections, he would never be considered overrated on that side of the court.

 

[sea manup]

Now here we go with this again. So now, we post Jordan's stats versus Kobe's, just to show that Kobe Bryant should not be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan, citing proof like this,

and the Kobe fans on here will try and kill the cred of the source, then saying,

it's that same stupid, idiotic, circular argument. Kobe Bryant does nothing wrong, and they want to know why people are participating in this thread, and then why this thread is even allowed to exist.

I've said enough.

Kobe Bryant is overrated. Just like with Pac Man, I have a funny feeling that we are going to soon find out, just how overrated he is.

are you trying to miss the point? i mean i thought i made it pretty clear what i was trying to say. can a third party let me know if what i said was confusing in any way? 

 

[scoop0625]

Another game......another loss by Kobe and Co. Good job Kobe, your almost at 30 loses champ.

Kobe scored 34 points on 9-24 shooting.

 

[sea manup]

I think that Kobe is not overrated. I got him in the top ten (around 7th). Kobe being top 5 is still debatable. I think when Longstroke mentions that his defense is overrated is because of all the first-team selections he has be getting the last few years before last season because he did not deserve them. He has not played much defense like the last 4 seasons but still getting the selections. If Kobe was not getting those selections, he would never be considered overrated on that side of the court.

what i mean is there is no one that thinks (for the past 3-4 years) that kobe is the best defender at his position. if no one thinks that and they just acknowledge that he is an above average (when he wants to be) defender, then how is his defense overrated? 

at the end of the day, a few people think kobe is god. a few people think kobe is a luckier version of shannon brown. the rest fall in the middle, if you talk to people that think kobe is a god (happens a lot in this thread) then you will think kobe is underrated, if you talk to someone that thinks kobe is a scrub (happens a lot in this thread) then you will think kobe is underrated. in the end it all balances out and kobe is "rated" just fine

 

[staceypatton4]

NO...Kobe is not Overrated does he have his flaws? Of course What player Doesn't Nobody not even JORDAN was a flawless player. Also, is someone overrated because they are mentioned/compared to Jordan? Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan THIS generation has seen, that's just how things work.

I'm 23(1989) and think of Kobe as one of the greatest but that also is because I only saw so much of Jordan (I love how my generation sometimes likes to act like they SAW a TON of Jordan but we didn't) besides videos and Stats. Kobe is someone that I pretty much have watched throughout his whole career, I witnessed his Greatest Accomplishments first hand. Notice how people younger than me Anointed LeBron as The BEST so quickly, it's because that is the person who they have witnessed grow and play since Highschool...They only watched Kobe as his career started to wind down. 

Kobe not making his teammates better is an interesting argument, I think he is just inconsistent because he gets frustrated but remember that is ONLY what we see on TV. No one really knows what goes on just because SMUSH PARKER said something AFTER kobe basically called him weak doesn't mean you can just take it at face value. 

Kobe plays his heart out EVERY NIGHT, and so did Jordan, the only difference was it was a very different ERA...Jordan played with a bunch of guys who may not have been as talented him but they PLAYED JUST AS HARD AS HE DID...Kobe has had to deal with mentally weak player/front runners like Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum...Jordan could hold his Teammates Accountable and they would Respond now days players are coddled they are entitled and thus it has made it harder for not only Players like Kobe but Coaches as well...Take Jordan when he came back for the Wiz....Kwame Brown had just been drafted and Jordan ranted on how bad he was and how he didn't play hard eventually benching him...Kwame Brown just didn't respond to how Jordan held his teammates accountable and it has a lot to do with the State that Prep and College basketball is currently in....

All I'm saying is Consider ALL of the circumstances don't just read an Article that throws out numbers, accusations an opinions or watch a game and think because Pau Gasol is playing like S*** that it's Kobe's fault...

 

[scoop0625]

what i mean is there is no one that thinks (for the past 3-4 years) that kobe is the best defender at his position. if no one thinks that and they just acknowledge that he is an above average (when he wants to be) defender, then how is his defense overrated? 

at the end of the day, a few people think kobe is god. a few people think kobe is a luckier version of shannon brown. the rest fall in the middle, if you talk to people that think kobe is a god (happens a lot in this thread) then you will think kobe is underrated, if you talk to someone that thinks kobe is a scrub (happens a lot in this thread) then you will think kobe is underrated. in the end it all balances out and kobe is "rated" just fine

I agree with you, but I the first thing I stated that Kobe is not overrated overall as a player. I rank him in the top 10, but that can change once his career ends.

 

[scoop0625]

NO...Kobe is not Overrated does he have his flaws? Of course What player Doesn't Nobody not even JORDAN was a flawless player. Also, is someone overrated because they are mentioned/compared to Jordan? Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan THIS generation has seen, that's just how things work.

I'm 23(1989) and think of Kobe as one of the greatest but that also is because I only saw so much of Jordan (I love how my generation sometimes likes to act like they SAW a TON of Jordan but we didn't) besides videos and Stats. Kobe is someone that I pretty much have watched throughout his whole career, I witnessed his Greatest Accomplishments first hand. Notice how people younger than me Anointed LeBron as The BEST so quickly, it's because that is the person who they have witnessed grow and play since Highschool...They only watched Kobe as his career started to wind down. 

Kobe not making his teammates better is an interesting argument, I think he is just inconsistent because he gets frustrated but remember that is ONLY what we see on TV. No one really knows what goes on just because SMUSH PARKER said something AFTER kobe basically called him weak doesn't mean you can just take it at face value. 

Kobe plays his heart out EVERY NIGHT, and so did Jordan, the only difference was it was a very different ERA...Jordan played with a bunch of guys who may not have been as talented him but they PLAYED JUST AS HARD AS HE DID...Kobe has had to deal with mentally weak player/front runners like Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum...Jordan could hold his Teammates Accountable and they would Respond now days players are coddled they are entitled and thus it has made it harder for not only Players like Kobe but Coaches as well...Take Jordan when he came back for the Wiz....Kwame Brown had just been drafted and Jordan ranted on how bad he was and how he didn't play hard eventually benching him...Kwame Brown just didn't respond to how Jordan held his teammates accountable and it has a lot to do with the State that Prep and College basketball is currently in....

All I'm saying is Consider ALL of the circumstances don't just read an Article that throws out numbers, accusations an opinions or watch a game and think because Pau Gasol is playing like S*** that it's Kobe's fault...

As "soft" as Gasol is, everyone knows that if is was not for Mr. Soft Gasol, he would be stuck on 3 rings because he played a huge role for it.

 

[goldenchild9]

Lakers are now 1- 6 when Kobe scores 30 or more...

1 - 9

1 - 10

Dwight only gets 10 attempts.....Kobe takes 24, only making 9.

Top 10, y'all say?

 

[deuce king]

Another game......another loss by Kobe and Co. Good job Kobe, your almost at 30 loses champ.

Kobe scored 34 points on 9-24 shooting.

It wasn't enough champ, Kobe still lost today. That's on him.

 

[scoop0625]

It wasn't enough champ, Kobe still lost today. That's on him.

I know that. I guess you missed my point. I was saying 9-24 shooting is horrible although he got 34 points.

 

[Jordan8]

which record are you referring to that is average?

Reading is so fundamental.

The premise is If the AVERAGE player would have taken the same amount of shots as Kobe over the same amount of time. The average player would too have 30k points.

Kobe's shot percentage is average. Kobe's shot attempts are astronomical.

 

[member 2323]

after reading that article i would love to have a partner in crime like kobe. Dude is the kind of guy that would have fought a battle til his death.

Sorry, but the 2006 Lakers disagree.

 

[powerballin]

which record are you referring to that is average?

Reading is so fundamental.

The premise is If the AVERAGE player would have taken the same amount of shots as Kobe over the same amount of time. The average player would too have 30k points.

Kobe's shot percentage is average. Kobe's shot attempts are astronomical.

You think Kobe is an average player that takes alot of shots in order to get his points?

 

[mertonhanks]

Oops

 

[member 2323]

you mean the record that only 5 players in the history of the nba are a part of?

Would you like to speak of his record THIRTY (30) missed field goals in a game that is matched by ZERO people?

Would you like to speak about this record:
[h1]Kobe Bryant to break the record for most missed shots in a career[/h1][h2]The Black Mamba should pass John Havlicek in the season 2013/14[/h2]

[h3]Kobe Bryant is on pace to break the record for most missed shots in a career, according to some fun research by John Hollinger at ESPN.
likely to fall is John Havlicek’s record for missed field goals, which Kobe Bryant should break at some point early in the 2013-14 season. My method gives him a 97 percent chance of setting the mark, which essentially means that barring an injury Kobe will hold the record. His current rate is 866 misses a season and he’s only 2,204 short of the record.

Bryant may not own this one for long, however, as several younger players have established a shot to re-break it once he’s moved on. LeBron James (33.3 percent chance to set record), Durant (23.8 percent) and Carmelo Anthony (23.7 percent) all stand a chance to surpass Havlicek in the later parts of their careers.[/h3]

 

[member 2323]

he has gone to the finals 7 times (5 wins) as the teams primary ball handler, has been around top 3 in assists for his position for a majority of his career, and is about to enter the top 5 all time playoff assists list. his decision making cant be THAT bad, again no one is saying that he makes better decisions with the ball than chris paul or magic. so how is he overrated when it comes to decision making? 

He has been an above average defender his entire career, who did the lakers go to last year when ty lawson was ripping the defense apart? i dont think anyone thinks kobe is the greatest defender to ever put on a nba uniform, people just see him as an above average defender. so how is his defense overrated?

i mean i can understand the points you are trying to make, but if you want people to give you a serious response you should avoid saying things like "[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]He does not make teammates better, as he is incapable of doing that"[/color]

"You always hear stories about him before you get there," Morris said. "They say he's this, he's that. But my experience, he's probably one of the best teammates that I've had, on and off the court. He's willing to help me, whether it's on the court or off-the-court situations. Really he's just always there to offer advice.

took me 30 seconds to find that quote from darius morris

So you want to give him credit for being the "main ball handler" and then proceed to compare his assists with others at his position? Why don't you compare his assists with other "primary ball handlers" and tell us where he ranks?

The "at his position" thing is getting lame. Lakers fans continue to look for sneaky angles to overrate this ballhog. There is no longer positions 1-5 in the NBA. There are wings, points and big men. Compare him to the positions that would traditionally be 1, 2 & 3... it's not hard to see, he is slightly above average.

 

[jumpmanpro97]

he's not overrated but he gets OVER CREDITED. During the Shaq years Kobe was the 2nd option. He was the man tho during the last two championships but having those skilled big men helped ALOT (Odom, Gasol, Bynum). Kobe's an all time great tho, I'll admit that.

 

[travis]

ohhhhh you done did it now ...

 

[member 2323]

what i mean is there is no one that thinks (for the past 3-4 years) that kobe is the best defender at his position. if no one thinks that and they just acknowledge that he is an above average (when he wants to be) defender, then how is his defense overrated? 

at the end of the day, a few people think kobe is god. a few people think kobe is a luckier version of shannon brown. the rest fall in the middle, if you talk to people that think kobe is a god (happens a lot in this thread) then you will think kobe is underrated, if you talk to someone that thinks kobe is a scrub (happens a lot in this thread) then you will think kobe is underrated. in the end it all balances out and kobe is "rated" just fine

Nobody except the people who vote for All-Defensive teams.

Or maybe those votes are rigged so that Bean Bryant will be viewed as an elite defender to sell more jerseys because he plays in a massive market. Story is his career.

 

[member 2323]

NO...Kobe is not Overrated does he have his flaws? Of course What player Doesn't Nobody not even JORDAN was a flawless player. Also, is someone overrated because they are mentioned/compared to Jordan? Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan THIS generation has seen, that's just how things work.

I'm 23(1989) and think of Kobe as one of the greatest but that also is because I only saw so much of Jordan (I love how my generation sometimes likes to act like they SAW a TON of Jordan but we didn't) besides videos and Stats. Kobe is someone that I pretty much have watched throughout his whole career, I witnessed his Greatest Accomplishments first hand. Notice how people younger than me Anointed LeBron as The BEST so quickly, it's because that is the person who they have witnessed grow and play since Highschool...They only watched Kobe as his career started to wind down. 

Kobe not making his teammates better is an interesting argument, I think he is just inconsistent because he gets frustrated but remember that is ONLY what we see on TV. No one really knows what goes on just because SMUSH PARKER said something AFTER kobe basically called him weak doesn't mean you can just take it at face value. 

Kobe plays his heart out EVERY NIGHT, and so did Jordan, the only difference was it was a very different ERA...Jordan played with a bunch of guys who may not have been as talented him but they PLAYED JUST AS HARD AS HE DID...Kobe has had to deal with mentally weak player/front runners like Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum...Jordan could hold his Teammates Accountable and they would Respond now days players are coddled they are entitled and thus it has made it harder for not only Players like Kobe but Coaches as well...Take Jordan when he came back for the Wiz....Kwame Brown had just been drafted and Jordan ranted on how bad he was and how he didn't play hard eventually benching him...Kwame Brown just didn't respond to how Jordan held his teammates accountable and it has a lot to do with the State that Prep and College basketball is currently in....

All I'm saying is Consider ALL of the circumstances don't just read an Article that throws out numbers, accusations an opinions or watch a game and think because Pau Gasol is playing like S*** that it's Kobe's fault...

Wrong both times.

As far as dominance and statistics go, LeBron James is much closer to Jordan than Bean. There's not even a debate.

Just because Bean tried to steal MJ's swag and has a style of play that is more similar to Jordan than LeBron, it doesn't mean that Bean is the closest thing to Jordan.

Hell, Gary Payton was a lot closer to Jordan than Bean is. The difference? No Shaq for 8 prime years, no Odom/Gasol/Bynum to rebound all the bricks for the other years. I won't even talk about Dwight.

No one knows what goes on just because Smush Parker said something? Really?

All you have to do is simply have a decent basketball IQ and watch the games to know that this guy is a trash teammate.

 

[member 2323]

Code:

Kobe scored 34 points on 9-24 shooting.

Are you suggesting that he had even a decent game?

He had a TERRIBLE game.

43 minutes. No rebounds. No defense. Terrible shots. Countless misses. 37.5% shooting on 24 shots.

Only an idiot with ZERO basketball IQ will think that's a good game.

 

[sea manup]

Are you suggesting that he had even a decent game?

He had a TERRIBLE game.

43 minutes. No rebounds. No defense. Terrible shots. Countless misses. 37.5% shooting on 24 shots.

Only an idiot with ZERO basketball IQ will think that's a good game.

this just goes to show how great kobe is, drop 34 and have a TERRIBLE game? if anyone else in the nba dropped 34 people would be giving him props all over the place, but kobe score 34? happens all the time, trash game

 

[member 2323]

this just goes to show how great kobe is, drop 34 and have a TERRIBLE game? if anyone else in the nba dropped 34 people would be giving him props all over the place, but kobe score 34? happens all the time, trash game

Actually, you're wrong. Most people give credit to players that score 34 on terrible shooting because most people that watch the NBA, and the Lakers in particular, have no knowledge of the sport + their math skills are terrible.

I will never give a guy credit for scoring 30+ points on 37.5% shooting. Only people with no knowledge of the game + no math skills will do that (98% of Lakers supporters).