IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[darthska]

^^tell me what big free agents the Lakers tried to acquire that turned us down or were even an option?
i don't remember any...
i thought it was management having bad contracts and ownership being tight not wanting to go over the cap?...

Of course it was management.

And the whole thing w/ Shaq and Kobe? Shaq's fault for being lazy.

Dwight? Clearly Dwight's fault for being soft.

Faber? Totally her fault.

It's NEVER 8/24.

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

He's also played 4 more seasons than them. Just a stat to show they were all chuckers, just varying degrees of efficiency. So do you truly hate the chucker mentality or the fact that not everyone is in this mode of caring about their FG%?

As CP said the difference between Kobe and Jordan's efficiency is 1 or 2 missed shots a game. Kobe takes much more difficult shots which is one of his major issues and has been for his career, but sheer volume, not that big of a deal to me.

This is incredibly misleading, and simply not true.

 

[CP1708]

Actually, .497, but yeah, 50.


Dancing? You're the one that said, I quoted YOUR post, who the **** is dancing?

Ok? You choose Hakeem, k? You aren't making a point really. You have Hakeem higher, you say he's got a better all around game, but have Kobe at 12. That's fine. You have Hakeem inside 12, so?

I never said that Kobe doesn't have an "all around" game as you stated.

I said that other had a more balanced game than him, that others were more versatile and greater players.

The point is that many people have Kobe as a top 5/7 player all time and they refuse to acknowledge his flaws (like you) and for that reason he is overrated in the rankings of basketball greats.

It's a simple concept, one that is debated endlessly in sports circles.

Your bias just won't let you intelligently engage in a simple discussion.

Are you forreal right now? 5/7, you have him at 12, and you're over here tellin me I can't acknowledge his flaws or engage in a simple discussion?

Ok dude.

 

[tay1]

 
This is incredibly misleading, and simply not true.

Please provide facts to prove otherwise. Not saying he's right, but I want to know since it's a HUGE difference.

 

[goldenchild9]

He's also played 4 more seasons than them. Just a stat to show they were all chuckers, just varying degrees of efficiency. So do you truly hate the chucker mentality or the fact that not everyone is in this mode of caring about their FG%?

As CP said the difference between Kobe and Jordan's efficiency is 1 or 2 missed shots a game. Kobe takes much more difficult shots which is one of his major issues and has been for his career, but sheer volume, not that big of a deal to me.

I have an issue with both the mentality and the FG%.

Both Jordan and Iverson were also criticized for chucking during their career. The difference is that Jordan and Kobe were surrounded by HoF players and maybe the greatest basketball mind ever, that helped turn that flaw into a powerful weapon. Iverson never had those things.

Jordan also elevated his game to a level never seen before or since his retirement, especially when it mattered the most. Kobe is still chucking it up at a historic rate, proving that he still hasn't learned how to balance that fundamental aspect of team ball.

 

[Lovetohate3000]

^^ u named shaq and dwight who both those dudes have had bad fallouts throughout the L everywhere they went... Again so the free agents we tried to acquire that didn't want to play with prime kobe? 2013 is not prime Kobe.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

I don't understand why the missed FGA record is an issue at all.

Kobe made himself into one of the great players by scoring. He's played 19 years trying to score. His style of play could be selfish and unlikable, but it's also focusing on doing what he does best.

He played that way and achieved some great things.

 

[tay1]

 
Of course it was management.

And the whole thing w/ Shaq and Kobe? Shaq's fault for being lazy.

Dwight? Clearly Dwight's fault for being soft.

Faber? Totally her fault.

It's NEVER 8/24.

Nobody even acknowledges Kobe's side in the issue between him & Shaq. Most of the blame is always put on Kobe.

 

[goldenchild9]

Actually, .497, but yeah, 50.


Dancing? You're the one that said, I quoted YOUR post, who the **** is dancing?

Ok? You choose Hakeem, k? You aren't making a point really. You have Hakeem higher, you say he's got a better all around game, but have Kobe at 12. That's fine. You have Hakeem inside 12, so?

I never said that Kobe doesn't have an "all around" game as you stated.

I said that other had a more balanced game than him, that others were more versatile and greater players.

The point is that many people have Kobe as a top 5/7 player all time and they refuse to acknowledge his flaws (like you) and for that reason he is overrated in the rankings of basketball greats.

It's a simple concept, one that is debated endlessly in sports circles.

Your bias just won't let you intelligently engage in a simple discussion.

Are you forreal right now? 5/7, you have him at 12, and you're over here tellin me I can't acknowledge his flaws or engage in a simple discussion?

Ok dude.

Like I said...if you don't have the impartiality or knowledge to try and accurately rank the top 10 - 20 players in the games history, if you think that is splitting hairs...then this discussion isn't for you.

 

[Lovetohate3000]

Common sense every player has flaws..
doesn't take away from their greatness....

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

 
Please provide facts to prove otherwise. Not saying he's right, but I want to know since it's a HUGE difference.

Jordan shot 50% for his career.

Kobe is shooting 45%.

Do you really need to know how big a difference numerically 45 to 50 is?

Do you know what Kobe would have to do, in order to reach 50, how many shots it would take, and then games he would need to play?

It would take an Herculean effort in order to raise his percentage, something that he'll never be able to do, especially since he has already broken the shots taken record.

Dude is deep in the red.

 

[goldenchild9]

Common sense every player has flaws..
doesn't take away from their greatness....

 

[laokratwr]

This is incredibly misleading, and simply not true.

Their percentage difference is 5% .That means in 100 shots Jordan threw in 5 more .

Since they both took around 20 shots per game that means 100 shots took 5 games , which actually means Kobe lost 1 shot more per game than Michael PER 100 SHOTS .

Actually Mike shot 4 shots more PER GAME , which by going rate of 50% fg percentage , means he lost two of them.

Which actually means he actually lost 1 shot more than Kobe per game.

Waiting to hear your point though.

All these stats are so funny .

A player's value CAN NOT BE ACCUMULATED BY NUMBERS people.


Only by comparing Kobe's numbers to the numbers of the greatest player EVER (in my opinion , Michael Jordan ) , a feat mostly executed by people who DONT appreciate Kobe's game , is self explanatory as to where Kobe stands .

Dude was a GREAT player .

No 2 ?3 ? Top 5 ? Top 10 ?

Who cares.

GREAT player._

 

[tay1]

 
Jordan shot 50% for his career.

Kobe is shooting 45%.

Do you really need to know how big a difference numerically 45 to 50 is?

Do you know what Kobe would have to do, in order to reach 50, how many shots it would take, and then games he would need to play?

I want to how many more shots Kobe missed per game

 

[CP1708]

Like I said...if you don't have the impartiality or knowledge to try and accurately rank the top 10 - 20 players in the games history, if you think that is splitting hairs...then this discussion isn't for you.

You don't even know what my list is man, how in the blue **** you gonna tell me what I am, and am not qualified for?

You, yourself have him at 12. I have him anywhere from 7-10. THAT IS SPLITTING HAIRS dude.


Get over yourself. You act like you know somethin I don't or some ****. Don't flatter yourself.

 

[Lovetohate3000]

I want to hear about lj being overrated before Kobe..

 

[MVP]

I want to how many more shots Kobe missed per game

MJ was at 22.9 attempts per game with 11.4 makes = 11.5 misses a game
Kobe is at 19.6 attempts per game with 8.9 makes = 10.7 misses a game

So MJ took more shots, made more shots and missed more shots on a per game basis in his career.

 

[goldenchild9]

Like I said...if you don't have the impartiality or knowledge to try and accurately rank the top 10 - 20 players in the games history, if you think that is splitting hairs...then this discussion isn't for you.

You don't even know what my list is man, how in the blue **** you gonna tell me what I am, and am not qualified for?

You, yourself have him at 12. I have him anywhere from 7-10. THAT IS SPLITTING HAIRS dude.


Get over yourself. You act like you know somethin I don't or some ****. Don't flatter yourself.

I'm just going by your dramatic posts in here.

I wasn't talking about your list. I'm talking about those who think he the GOAT top 5 like I have said a dozen times.

You're acting like the discussion is taboo or unfathomable. Talking about lock it up and suspend my posting privileges.

Busting out your spreadsheets and such

You're the one making things personal.

Relax.

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

Their percentage difference is 5% .That means in 100 shots Jordan threw in 5 more .

Since they both took around 20 shots per game that means 100 shots took 5 games , which actually means Kobe lost 1 shot more per game than Michael PER 100 SHOTS .

Actually Mike shot 4 shots more PER GAME , which by going rate of 50% fg percentage , means he lost two of them.

Which actually means he actually lost 1 shot more than Kobe per game.

Waiting to hear your point though.

All these stats are so funny .

A player's value CAN NOT BE ACCUMULATED BY NUMBERS people.


Only by comparing Kobe's numbers to the numbers of the greatest player EVER (in my opinion , Michael Jordan ) , a feat mostly executed by people who DONT appreciate Kobe's game , is self explanatory as to where Kobe stands .

Dude was a GREAT player .

No 2 ?3 ? Top 5 ? Top 10 ?

Who cares.

GREAT player._

While those calculations are correct, how many made shots would it take for Mr. Bryant to reach fifty, and how does that effect his efficiency?

The point is, Kobe isn't the most efficient player, and is indeed overrated due to this fact.

He is a volume shooter.

The greatest ever.

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

MJ was at 22.9 attempts per game with 11.4 makes = 11.5 misses a game
Kobe is at 19.6 attempts per game with 8.9 makes = 10.7 misses a game

So MJ took more shots, made more shots and missed more shots on a per game basis in his career.

Yet again, misleading people with numbers.

Efficiency is what was being discussed when those numbers arose.

Kobe isn't efficient in regard to his shots taken, both missed and made.

The NEW record speaks for itself.

 

[goldenchild9]

I want to how many more shots Kobe missed per game

MJ was at 22.9 attempts per game with 11.4 makes = 11.5 misses a game
Kobe is at 19.6 attempts per game with 8.9 makes = 10.7 misses a game

So MJ took more shots, made more shots and missed more shots on a per game basis in his career.

He also averaged more points, blocks, steal, assists and rebounds than Kobe. More Championships, more championships as the #1 player, 3 times more finals MVPs, 5x more regular season MVPs etc. etc. etc. all in a shorter span of time.

Let's not even bring MJ into this comparison.

Just the fact that a decent amount of people think Kobe is better than or close to Jordan proves the validity of this thread.

 

[laokratwr]

While those calculations are correct, how many made shots would it take for Mr. Bryant to reach fifty, and how does that effect his efficiency?

The point is, Kobe isn't the most efficient player, and is indeed overrated due to this fact.

He is a volume shooter.

The greatest ever.

1 made shot more per game.

That like the Grand Canyon of differences .

Not good with math huh?

 

[CP1708]

I don't know why missed FG's matter now when no one even knew that John Havlicek had the record two weeks ago, but I ask

When a player tears a ligament in his shooting wrist, and plays thru it, does it affect his game?

When a player breaks a finger, on his shooting hand, and plays thru that, does it affect his game?

When he tears a tendon on yet a different finger, on his shooting hand, in a different year, and plays thru it, does it affect his game?



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Cuz I wonder, if I had broken **** on my shooting hand, I would have a hard time getting the ball to go in the basket too. Especially when the best defenders on every team, every night, are guarding me. I would find that tough.

Thing is, he doesn't care. He doesn't care if he misses, he doesn't care if it affects his stats, doesn't care about any of that, he just goes out and plays. Numbers be damned.


So do we now discredit him for missing those shots? Would we discredit him for sitting out weeks/months to get those injuries repaired, so he could "shoot better" for everyone?

*shrugs*


Like I said, 99-13, 15 years, his shooting percentage was 46%. With a billion injuries he's played thru, and ANY NBA fan would tell you they've seen him do it. Even hating *** ************* would cop to that.

The man tore his ******* achilles, and came out to shoot the free throws anyway, after he tried to literally pull up his achilles with his bare hands.


Last year in his 6th game, he broke his knee cap in the first half. He finished the game. Folks, he finished the game, with that broken kneecap, and won, on the road. He played the second half of an NBA game, defended by the Memphis Grizzlies, with a broken kneecap.


But I know the majority of you fellas will wave off those injuries, and say that everyone plays thru them.

They just don't average 27/5/5 over 15 years doing so, do they?

 

[denni5themenace]

I don't know why missed FG's matter now when no one even knew that John Havlicek had the record two weeks ago, but I ask

When a player tears a ligament in his shooting wrist, and plays thru it, does it affect his game?

When a player breaks a finger, on his shooting hand, and plays thru that, does it affect his game?

When he tears a tendon on yet a different finger, on his shooting hand, in a different year, and plays thru it, does it affect his game?



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View media item 1266234

Cuz I wonder, if I had broken **** on my shooting hand, I would have a hard time getting the ball to go in the basket too. Especially when the best defenders on every team, every night, are guarding me. I would find that tough.

Thing is, he doesn't care. He doesn't care if he misses, he doesn't care if it affects his stats, doesn't care about any of that, he just goes out and plays. Numbers be damned.


So do we now discredit him for missing those shots? Would we discredit him for sitting out weeks/months to get those injuries repaired, so he could "shoot better" for everyone?

*shrugs*


Like I said, 99-13, 15 years, his shooting percentage was 46%. With a billion injuries he's played thru, and ANY NBA fan would tell you they've seen him do it. Even hating *** ************* would cop to that.

The man tore his ******* achilles, and came out to shoot the free throws anyway, after he tried to literally pull up his achilles with his bare hands.


Last year in his 6th game, he broke his knee cap in the first half. He finished the game. Folks, he finished the game, with that broken kneecap, and won, on the road. He played the second half of an NBA game, defended by the Memphis Grizzlies, with a broken kneecap.


But I know the majority of you fellas will wave off those injuries, and say that everyone plays thru them.

They just don't average 27/5/5 over 15 years doing so, do they?

kobe fan card: reinstated

 

[CP1708]

Like I said...if you don't have the impartiality or knowledge to try and accurately rank the top 10 - 20 players in the games history, if you think that is splitting hairs...then this discussion isn't for you.

You don't even know what my list is man, how in the blue **** you gonna tell me what I am, and am not qualified for?

You, yourself have him at 12. I have him anywhere from 7-10. THAT IS SPLITTING HAIRS dude.


Get over yourself. You act like you know somethin I don't or some ****. Don't flatter yourself.

I'm just going by your dramatic posts in here.

I wasn't talking about your list. I'm talking about those who think he the GOAT top 5 like I have said a dozen times.

You're acting like the discussion is taboo or unfathomable. Talking about lock it up and suspend my posting privileges.

Busting out your spreadsheets and such

You're the one making things personal.

Relax.

Man, I never said lock the thread up. And I made the quip about sending you to the corner as a joke because of 3-12 difference you complaining about.

And since you keep saying this top 5 stuff, and I'm not one of them, why do you keep addressing that **** to me? "I'm a stan, I have the bias," etc. But I don't have him at 5, so what the hell?

Just drop it. You and I are like 5-6 names apart, if that. So just let it go.