IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[xx hpdv iii]

......

rollin

The Wade stuff is funny but shooting them out of games is even more hilarious. Hes shooting them out of games but leads all shooting guards in assists.

Another weak perspective that's rather funny.

Of course other 2-guards don't average as many assists... did you ever think that maybe it's because they let the point guard run the offense?

Wanna bring up the "usage rating" stats for all the shooting guards?

Also, I'm sick of people trying to put emphasis on "shooting guards" in the present day NBA.

There is no longer "shooting guards."

There are point guards, wings, and big men.

And yes, he shoots the Lakers out of games.

Can you find me another player in the NBA that misses 11 shots per game?

Just name one player besides Carmelo Anthony.

Assists have NOTHING to do with shooting your team out of games, but go ahead and keep looking for some statistical excuse to satisfy emotions. "Kobe doesn't shoot the Lakers out of games, he leads all shooting guards in assists!!!!"

Carmelo averages half as many assists as Kobe, yet he doesn't shoot his team out of games because their system allows him to miss 11+ shots per game and still have a pretty good record.

 

[xx hpdv iii]

So you're gonna amnesty your most productive player that only has one year left on contract. that pays him 30 million not 40 or 50 million btw( I don't know where you even got that ignorant figure from) to go pick up Kevin Martin or Manu?????? Because those are the only UFA shooting guards available this summer. And I guess you'd amnesty him because no team would want him?

Nobody would give you draft picks or players for him?

Do you realize like the best players to be amnested in the new CBA are Chauncey Billups and Luis Scola. Wouldnt it make more sense to amnesty Nash since he has 2 years left on his contract and has been far less productive?


At least if youre going to write make outrageous statements at least have them make sense

Also come on dude you have 62 posts and all but 10 are hating on Kobe or the Lakers. And 5 of those non-Kobe hating posts are Lebron Stan posts.

Its ok to have a passing dislike of something but you're really obsessed with hating on Kobe. a person you've never met and probably never will meet in real life.

Why don't you read up on the luxury tax penalties before you call me ignorant for saying that Bean is costing the Lakers an extra $40-50 million?

Nash is less productive... but let's ignore the fact that his salary is one-third of Kobe's.

 

[quik1987]

I been here since 2001, but yup, troll account

 

[xx hpdv iii]

Yes, I've been watching LA. Dwight is still the best C in the league even at 75%. No other center is putting up the numbers hes putting up, and hes the only one giving a damn on D on the team. And that wasnt even the point of my post. We're discussing MVP. Why should Kobe deserve the MVP, gettin his team to the #8 seed, more than the best player on the first, second, or third seed in the West? Thats the point i was getting at.

Yall complain about "Haters" discrediting Kobe. But look at what some of yall credit Kobe for. MVP for getting his team into the playoffs as the #8 seed playing alongside the best Center in the league (even at 75%). Only Kobe...

Dont call me a Hater now.

Yeah, this year is even worse than when they wanted him to get MVP in 05-07. As ridiculous as those claims were back then, at least he took them to a measly 8-seed without even having the best center in the league.

The think that irks me the most about Kobe fans is that they have absolutely no respect for the actual sport of basketball. It's just a bunch of people that want to show each other that "I'm a bigger Kobe fan than you!!"

That's why the Staples Center crowd is sickening. 90% of the people in Staples Center (excluding Clippers games) don't deserve to watch basketball for the simple fact that they don't know **** about basketball nor do they respect it. Year after year,  y'all go to the games, stay quiet the whole game and just wait for Kobe Bryant to get to the foul line (phantom fouls half the time) so that you can yell "M-V-P" so you could prove to the other clowns in attendance that you're a big Kobe Bryant fan.

Year after year...

Kobe Bryant, "M-V-P!!"

MVP of what?

 

[CP1708]

Amnestying Kobe is something LA has kept on the table in case of emergency.

For instance if he blew his knee out and could no longer play like a Brandon Roy situation, LA would have to protect themselves.

To just do it, in order to save money, won't work. Sounds bizarre, but here's why.

The 40-50 million that it costs to pay Kobe's salary is nothing. There are articles, and has been for years now, about how Kobe generates somewhere around 75 million in revenue for the Lakers each year. As you all know, there are a few Kobe fans in this world. Notably, in LA.

They go to games, they buy merchandise, they buy hot dogs. Bottom line, they pay.

When the lockout happened, we talked about how it was complete and utter ******** to put a cap on salaries, someone like Joe Johnson can make 20 mil, and someone like LeBron can make 20 mil. Rather easy to see, LeBron generates more cash for his team, than a Joe Johnson type player does.

That applies to Kobe Bryant as well.


As for amnestying Nash, no. We just signed him, the amnesty provision was put in place for players already under contract under the old CBA. In terms of LA, Kobe, Pau, Ron, and Steve Blake are the ones that qualify. It has been speculated that Ron could be the one that gets clipped as he has the least value in terms of trade (Pau could be dealt) and is more expensive than Blake is.

Shaq was great in LA, and clearly made a ton of money for LA, but he was there 8 years only. And he came from 4 years with another team. Kobe was born and raised a Laker, added on Draft night, every second of his NBA career has been in a Laker uni. 17 years. He has been to LA what Magic was in the 80's. LA wouldn't have cut Magic to save money, and they won't with Kobe either.

If he was 34 with high mileage, and 3 years left on his contract, then it might be a lot more feasible. With just one season left, they don't add anything. LA's entire roster is set to come off the books along with Kobe after next year, minus 1 year for Nash (in which case I think he will retire) and Dwight's deal if he re-signs. LA is going in to the 2014 free agent class with 1 contract (maybe 2) and the chance to start the post Kobe era anew. It's like 14 months from now, no reason to cut Kobe and absord all the ill will from the fanbase to shave 11 months off of 14. That's like trying to break out of prison after you been in for 10 years, and you only have 4 months left on your sentence.

 

[deuce king]

Yall can talk all the smack you want about Kobe not being a top 5 player but I'd be willing to bet he finishes in the top 5 in the NBA MVP voting again. And its more likely he finishes 3rd or better especially if the Lakers make the playoffs.
 

 

[sea manup]

have you been watching the lakers this season? apart from dwight once every three games, what have those three actually done for us this season?

Yes, I've been watching LA. Dwight is still the best C in the league even at 75%. No other center is putting up the numbers hes putting up, and hes the only one giving a damn on D on the team. And that wasnt even the point of my post. We're discussing MVP. Why should Kobe deserve the MVP, gettin his team to the #8 seed, more than the best player on the first, second, or third seed in the West? Thats the point i was getting at.

Yall complain about "Haters" discrediting Kobe. But look at what some of yall credit Kobe for. MVP for getting his team into the playoffs as the #8 seed playing alongside the best Center in the league (even at 75%). Only Kobe...

Dont call me a Hater now.

i agree that someone on an 8th seed (as of now) should not be given the MVP award, im just saying that "but he had nash pau and dwight on his team!" makes it seem like you have not been watching the lakers this year. steve nash has had problems getting the ball up court vs full court pressure, thats what being 40 does to you. pau has missed something like 30 games (may be wrong about this, but it sure seems like it) and 60% of the time he stands just above the ft line doing nothing (bad coaching, dwight taking up the lane ect..), and while dwight has been solid on D, he has been HORRIBLE on offense, as in i would take 2010 bynum over him 10 times out of 10 (keep in mind that im talking about dwight THIS year). so the point im trying to make is that THIS YEAR 2013 you cant blame kobe for not winning with all these "big name players" because they have not been playing like big name players. 2004 sure, give kobe all the blame but in TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN kobe is not the problem.

and its not for this thread but i would take marc gasol over dwight and in terms of the way this team is build i think we would be better if we had tyson chandler

 

[quik1987]

 

[mrjoshlikeaboss]

he is carring the team this year....... they shouldnt have changed it.

 

[denni5themenace]

just to be clear, are we using the lakers favoritism/conspiracy to discredit shaq too? or just kobe?

 

[mjgreatxii]

just to be clear, are we using the lakers favoritism/conspiracy to discredit shaq too? or just kobe?

I would hope shaq too.
But this is nt. So nope. Just kobe

 

[quik1987]

You guys brought up officiating to discredit Shaq in first place

 

[denni5themenace]

i did not personally bring up the officiating, so don't group me with "you guys"

but since some of you, and you personally, bring up the suspect officiating, does it put a blemish on shaq's legacy? i mean in general. to be fair. during the 3 peat days, we all can agree shaq was the top dog and kobe was robin, right?

so does that affect him on your top x players list? or does this only affect kobe negatively?

 

[denni5themenace]

I'm trying to figure how a guy who is "suppose" to be so great, and played for now 17 years in the league so far has only been able to muster up 1 NBA Most Valuable Player award. Top 5.........not a chance in hell.

right? shaq nor hakeem deserve to be top 5. overrated

still waiting for a response, champ.

 

[quik1987]

Sorry for grouping you with "you guys", it all starts to blend together after a while.

They would have been great regardless of officiating, but not as great.

Thats why I never brought it up, l only commented on it after Kobe defenders tried to discredit Shaq. So i never brought it up just to discredit Kobe.

And in reply to your other comment, even though it wasnt't directed at me

5 rings and all-stars aside, Hakeem and Shaq have better resumes

 

[onetrust]

i did not personally bring up the officiating, so don't group me with "you guys"

but since some of you, and you personally, bring up the suspect officiating, does it put a blemish on shaq's legacy? i mean in general. to be fair. during the 3 peat days, we all can agree shaq was the top dog and kobe was robin, right?

so does that affect him on your top x players list? or does this only affect kobe negatively?

Speaking just for me, I think whoever was on those Lakers teams it should affect their legacies. It ain't just Kobe or Shaq. However, people bring it up in regards to Kobe because he seems to be hailed as some GOD all the time. Nobody really takes about Shaq like that because he doesn't have a cult fan base like Kobe does.

However, I swear, reading through this whole thread y'all CONTINUE to make excuses for kobe and NEVER blame him for nothing. This dude Kobe was playing LA KOBE ball not LA LAKER ball to start the season. HE is one of the MAIN reasons the lakers started the season off SUPER slow because dude wanted to try and lead the league in scoring. Some of you guys will come back with the "who else is going to score?" as if anybody even had the opportunity since Kobe was chucking up 30 shots a game with the next closest dude having 8. I'm exaggerating those numbers but you get my drift. Dude was playing KoME ball and not trusting his teammates.

 

[denni5themenace]

Sorry for grouping you with "you guys", it all starts to blend together after a while.

They would have been great regardless of officiating, but not as great.

Thats why I never brought it up, l only commented on it after Kobe defenders tried to discredit Shaq. So i never brought it up just to discredit Kobe.

And in reply to your other comment, even though it wasnt't directed at me

5 rings and all-stars aside, Hakeem and Shaq have better resumes

in regards to the hakeem and shaq resumes. i wholeheartedly agree with you. their resumes and dominance speak for themselves. but isn't it a bit strange to use a single barometer (MVP titles) to define one's legacy? it shouldn't IMO.

i did not personally bring up the officiating, so don't group me with "you guys"

but since some of you, and you personally, bring up the suspect officiating, does it put a blemish on shaq's legacy? i mean in general. to be fair. during the 3 peat days, we all can agree shaq was the top dog and kobe was robin, right?

so does that affect him on your top x players list? or does this only affect kobe negatively?

Speaking just for me, I think whoever was on those Lakers teams it should affect their legacies. It ain't just Kobe or Shaq. However, people bring it up in regards to Kobe because he seems to be hailed as some GOD all the time. Nobody really takes about Shaq like that because he doesn't have a cult fan base like Kobe does.

However, I swear, reading through this whole thread y'all CONTINUE to make excuses for kobe and NEVER blame him for nothing. This dude Kobe was playing LA KOBE ball not LA LAKER ball to start the season. HE is one of the MAIN reasons the lakers started the season off SUPER slow because dude wanted to try and lead the league in scoring. Some of you guys will come back with the "who else is going to score?" as if anybody even had the opportunity since Kobe was chucking up 30 shots a game with the next closest dude having 8. I'm exaggerating those numbers but you get my drift. Dude was playing KoME ball and not trusting his teammates.

fair points, but you seem to have a confused view of how some of us view kobe. you can't continually generalize a fan base. yes there are a lot of BIASED/HOMER fans, but thats the case for every fan base - but even moreso for the lakers.

if you peruse through the official season thread, especially during kobe's "KOME" games, there are PLENTY of LAKERS fans that criticize kobe and blame him for losses or bad overall team play. he doesn't go unscathed in the criticism department.

 

[onetrust]

in regards to the hakeem and shaq resumes. i wholeheartedly agree with you. their resumes and dominance speak for themselves. but isn't it a bit strange to use a single barometer (MVP titles) to define one's legacy? it shouldn't IMO.
fair points, but you seem to have a confused view of how some of us view kobe. you can't continually generalize a fan base. yes there are a lot of BIASED/HOMER fans, but thats the case for every fan base - but even moreso for the lakers.

if you peruse through the official season thread, especially during kobe's "KOME" games, there are PLENTY of LAKERS fans that criticize kobe and blame him for losses or bad overall team play. he doesn't go unscathed in the criticism department.

I'm not trying to generalize the fan base but the majority of the kobe fans in here are the ones that NEVER place blame on him for nothing and actually think he should be TALKED in MVP discussions. Really? Wow.

I never go into the laker thread because that's y'all thread so I don't try to put any negativity in there but just reading through this particular thread you can clearly see it's the "kobe can do no wrong" attitude from his fans here.

 

[iamjusayn]

Statements like this are what kill me. Read everything you're saying... it's a joke.

"he won't allow his team to go out like that."

I mean... what the hell does that even mean?
This is the same as when people see the Lakers struggling and say "it pains me to see Kobe go out like this."

GO OUT LIKE WHAT?

If you've even remotely followed the Lakers' season, you would know that the reason they are in 8th place is because Kobe Bryant shoots them out of games. He has been doing it his whole career. The Lakers have always been trash during Kobe Bryant's career when he doesn't have 7-footers to bail out his brick-laying abilities. This year, Gasol has been hurt a lot, and Dwight doesn't play motivated because Kobe Bryant is too busy trying to break scoring records and not passing the ball.

It's very clear to anyone that understands basketball and watches the Lakers that he is the reason they're barely .500.

But people like you turn on the SportsCenter top 10 plays and see his scoring average vs. the other players on his team and conclude that the rest of the team isn't doing anything and Kobe Bryant is keeping them in the playoff hunt by his lonesome.



What the hell does this have to do with anything? Dwyane Wade is not Kobe Bryant.

In the 2006 playoffs, Dwyane Wade played at a level that Kobe Bryant has never been able to play at in the playoffs. That is why THAT elite 2-guard was able to win Finals MVP on a team with Shaq.

They won because Dwyane Wade was good enough to dominate a series vs. the Pistons in the ECF, something Kobe Bryant tried his hardest to do in 2004, but failed miserably.

They won because Dwayne Wade was good enough to dominate an NBA Finals and make all the key plays and free throws in the 2006 NBA Finals... something that Kobe Bryant tried to hard to do in 2004, but failed.

They won in 2006 because Dwyane Wade WAS THAT good, not because he THOUGHT he was THAT good, without actually being THAT good, word to Kobe in 2004.

I see you XX!

 

[sea manup]

in regards to the hakeem and shaq resumes. i wholeheartedly agree with you. their resumes and dominance speak for themselves. but isn't it a bit strange to use a single barometer (MVP titles) to define one's legacy? it shouldn't IMO.
fair points, but you seem to have a confused view of how some of us view kobe. you can't continually generalize a fan base. yes there are a lot of BIASED/HOMER fans, but thats the case for every fan base - but even moreso for the lakers.

if you peruse through the official season thread, especially during kobe's "KOME" games, there are PLENTY of LAKERS fans that criticize kobe and blame him for losses or bad overall team play. he doesn't go unscathed in the criticism department.

I'm not trying to generalize the fan base but the majority of the kobe fans in here are the ones that NEVER place blame on him for nothing and actually think he should be TALKED in MVP discussions. Really? Wow.

I never go into the laker thread because that's y'all thread so I don't try to put any negativity in there but just reading through this particular thread you can clearly see it's the "kobe can do no wrong" attitude from his fans here.

this is a kobe is overrated thread is obviously kobe fans will defend him, us lakers fans blame him for this poor shot choice and bad defense EVERY GAME (that he jacks up bad shots and doesnt play d at least). 

 

[deuce king]

I'm trying to figure how a guy who is "suppose" to be so great, and played for now 17 years in the league so far has only been able to muster up 1 NBA Most Valuable Player award. Top 5.........not a chance in hell.

right? shaq nor hakeem deserve to be top 5. overrated

still waiting for a response, champ.

I have never seen or heard someone make an argument for either Shaq or Hakeem as a Top 5 GOAT, or neither of them mentioned as THE GOAT.  I and others unfortunately have heard and painfully witnessed folks make the attempt to have Kobe as Top 5 or even worse yet GOAT.  Anything else champ??

but isn't it a bit strange to use a single barometer (MVP titles) to define one's legacy? it shouldn't IMO.

For most people that have a Top 5 list, the players generally placed on that list have multiple MVP titles.  Meaning that they were regarded as THE BEST in the league by way of this award.  In Kobe's case, for a guy that has been in the league for 17 years now, he has only been able to muster up 1..............just 1 MVP title, but yet he somehow is placed in the Top 5 or GOAT category.  It just doesn't add up champ.

 

[sea manup]

I'm trying to figure how a guy who is "suppose" to be so great, and played for now 17 years in the league so far has only been able to muster up 1 NBA Most Valuable Player award. Top 5.........not a chance in hell.

right? shaq nor hakeem deserve to be top 5. overrated

still waiting for a response, champ.

I have never seen or heard someone make an argument for either Shaq or Hakeem as a Top 5 GOAT, or neither of them mentioned as THE GOAT.  I and others unfortunately have heard and painfully witnessed folks make the attempt to have Kobe as Top 5 or even worse yet GOAT.  Anything else champ??

where has ANYONE ever said that he is the GOAT?

people are just making things up now

 

[denni5themenace]

I'm trying to figure how a guy who is "suppose" to be so great, and played for now 17 years in the league so far has only been able to muster up 1 NBA Most Valuable Player award. Top 5.........not a chance in hell.

right? shaq nor hakeem deserve to be top 5. overrated

still waiting for a response, champ.

I have never seen or heard someone make an argument for either Shaq or Hakeem as a Top 5 GOAT, or neither of them mentioned as THE GOAT.  I and others unfortunately have heard and painfully witnessed folks make the attempt to have Kobe as Top 5 or even worse yet GOAT.  Anything else champ??

where has ANYONE ever said that he is the GOAT?

people are just making things up now

he must mean that some fans have the opinion that kobe is the goat.

just as i insinuated that some others have shaq/hakeem in their top 5.

and deuce, you've NEVER heard ANYONE make an argument that either of those are arguably top 5 players ever? ok

the fact that you use ONE statistic to discredit a person's legacy is the type of logic im trying to point out. by that barometer steve nash > hakeem and shaq? right?

 

[deuce king]

I'm trying to figure how a guy who is "suppose" to be so great, and played for now 17 years in the league so far has only been able to muster up 1 NBA Most Valuable Player award. Top 5.........not a chance in hell.

right? shaq nor hakeem deserve to be top 5. overrated

still waiting for a response, champ.

I have never seen or heard someone make an argument for either Shaq or Hakeem as a Top 5 GOAT, or neither of them mentioned as THE GOAT.  I and others unfortunately have heard and painfully witnessed folks make the attempt to have Kobe as Top 5 or even worse yet GOAT.  Anything else champ??

where has ANYONE ever said that he is the GOAT?

.......and by "new HERE", here meaning S&T on NT champ.

 

[sea manup]

I'm trying to figure how a guy who is "suppose" to be so great, and played for now 17 years in the league so far has only been able to muster up 1 NBA Most Valuable Player award. Top 5.........not a chance in hell.

right? shaq nor hakeem deserve to be top 5. overrated

still waiting for a response, champ.

I have never seen or heard someone make an argument for either Shaq or Hakeem as a Top 5 GOAT, or neither of them mentioned as THE GOAT.  I and others unfortunately have heard and painfully witnessed folks make the attempt to have Kobe as Top 5 or even worse yet GOAT.  Anything else champ??

where has ANYONE ever said that he is the GOAT?

people are just making things up now

he must mean that some fans have the opinion that kobe is the goat.

just as i insinuated that some others have shaq/hakeem in their top 5.

and deuce, you've NEVER heard ANYONE make an argument that either of those are arguably top 5 players ever?

ok

the fact that you use ONE statistic to discredit a person's legacy is the type of logic im trying to point out. by that barometer steve nash > hakeem and shaq? right?

there are fans for every elite player that think their respective favorite player is top 5, or even the goat but for most cases (like kobe) this is the minority.

hell i heard people last year talking about how j lin was a top 5 PG in the nba last year, but does that mean that ALL lin fans think that? no

the reason you hear people talking about kobe being top5 more than hakeem or shaq is because kobe is still playing, shaq and hakeem dont play anymore, people have stopped talking about them.