IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[essential1]

View media item 346289

Lol! Exactly

Why don't people get this? It's not about passing someone. The question should always be "oh yeah? Well how long did it take you to pass that record?"

When you pass someone's record in less time is a real feat! Stop the nonsense please!

Since this post by me went unnoticed (conveniently by you)... I'll post it again.


Jordan did his in 24537 shots.

Kobe needs 859 points to pass with 352 less shots..


If you look at last season the lockout shortened year, he scored 1616 points in 1336 shots.... By that measure he scores 1 point every 1.209 shots.. That's also him shooting 2.7% worse than his career level..

You carry that 1 point for every 1.209 shots over and Kobe scores the go ahead bucket 710 shots from now.

It would take Kobe 358 more shots than Jordan to get to 32,293 and 3rd all-time.... 358 shots if you go to his largest FGA attempt season in the past 5 years, which was last year (23 FGA / game) 358 shots = 15.5 games. We are talking about an extra 16 games worth of shots.


Not really as wide of a gap as you are making it look.

 

[nako xl]

Merton, do you think he's top 5? top 10?

Top 5, No. I wouldnt even have put him top 10 last season. But this season, I could put him in the top 10.

I put Bron, KD, CP3, Harden, Melo all ahead of him, even Westbrook. A healthy Wade and Dwight as well.

I asked because whether someone is overrated is based on where they are rated.

For the record, I Dont think Kobe is overrated on the all time list.

However, I think hes been overrated the past couple seasons seeing as how so many still think hes still a top 5 player in the league.

agreed. i think he's def a top 5 offensive player right now. but his defense is just way too suspect to have him in the top 10 overall.

he has been playing ridiculous minutes for his age and showing up defensively and in clutch situations at times this season so i think he still deserves to be top 10.

i'd take all of those guys you listed before him, though. except Wade and MAYBE Russy who I love.

But Harden doesn't play D either.. neither does Melo. So can you really put those guys above Kobe?

Good question. I did say guys I put ahead of Kobe in the top 10 don't play D either, so I'm not sure how strongly I feel about him being outside the top 5 overall this year.

Melo's my guy though He's also unguardable. I think his offense > Kobe's currently and it's a toss up between them as defnsive liabilities, though Kobe still tries a little harder, but Melo can guard 3-4 positions on the court when he actually wants to. Which is maybe 5 times every season.

And Harden's just been running downhill on people all season. He's a defensive liability now that he plays 40 mins a game but he's a problem on offense. Kobe's age and loss of quickness just bumps him out of that top 5.

 

[mister friendly]

Yall can talk all the smack you want about Kobe not being a top 5 player but I'd be willing to bet he finishes in the top 5 in the NBA MVP voting again. And its more likely he finishes 3rd or better especially if the Lakers make the playoffs.

I trust the NBA writers and correspondents more than some haters on Niketalk.

 

[mertonhanks]

So Kobe is goin to finish 3rd or 2nd when the Lakers make the playoffs as a #7 or 8 seed? Playing alongside Dwight, Pau, Nash?

Finishing above CP3, KD, and Parker whos teams are tops in the west?

 

[mister friendly]

So Kobe is goin to finish 3rd or 2nd when the Lakers make the playoffs as a #7 or 8 seed? Playing alongside Dwight, Pau, Nash?

Finishing above CP3, KD, and Parker whos teams are tops in the west?

Yep ......The candidates after Lebron and KD are Kobe, Chris Paul, Melo,Harden and Parker.

Each of those candidates besides Melo has won a player of the month. Of those candidates only Kobe and Harden have won the player of the week twice. But out of all those players only Kobe and Harden have had alot wow moments so far this season that a casual NBA fan would remember. And you guys have said their is a Kobe bias....so what do you think is gonna happen barring a complete collapse by Kobe?

 

[CP1708]

Because the only person to say 06 and rigged in the same sentence so far, is you.

Then you as you say, bring up the 02 series, and act like Laker fans were in here saying anything about the Heat, which was not the case. So why bring up 2002? Which is exactly what Nako asked you.

NO Laker fans were crying about 06, I barely mentioned it when discussing Shaq's post Laker legacy as a what if, Nako asked a similar question later, the end. You come in BUT BUT BUT 2002!!!!!!

So yeah, you got questioned as to what your motives were right there. Next time, dont say Laker fans, either say who you are referring to by name, or say nothing at all. When that starts happening, I'll stop saying "you guys" and refer to each person.

I'll switch to "you dudes".

Oh lord, CP, you're making me have to go back just to show you cause I feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that without game fixing Shaq may never have even seen that 4th championship

That's from Nako. My bad, he didn't say "rigged." He said "fixed." SO NO, i'm not the ONLY person to say it's fixed/rigged, whatever you want to call it. Also, you and Ska both didn't outright say it but don't play dumb CP, you KNOW what you were getting at, as well as Ska.

Anyway, so the reason I bring up 2002 is because Quik and Ska did so i piggybacked on what they said and added my two cents. That's ALL i did. It wasn't in response to what YOU OR NAKO was saying but somehow NAKO got it in his head that I had to follow some post tree or something when Quik didn't even QUOTE him so how the hell do i know who he's responding to? It was a post on it's own.

Anyway, then YOU started thinking I was talking about you:

Cuz you saw that. You saw me say that all is wrong with the NBA. You saw me or Nako make a "big" deal about the 06 series.

When I NEVER in my thread mentioned you or anyone in this thread for that matter. I was speaking in general because we see it ALL the time in the NBA threads from YOUR fellow uh oh, bout to say it, "Laker fans" about how the NBA is rigged now since the Heat are on top, etc. So basically, I feel as if you were playing dumb because ALL this time you KNOW what I was getting at and that is AGAIN:

The Lakers got a ton of breaks too during their championship run so to hear "people" mention how the Miami/Mavs series was "fixed" is ironic, imo.

I was getting at that season people question. I, personally, have nothing against it one way or another. To me, 2011 balanced it out.

Ska and I have both gone rounds vs folks about 02. He and I saw it the same way, I've put in the work proving people cry about that series for no reason. I even posted the entire 4th quarter video in a thread once, then broke down every single call. People forget (read this to mean ignore) that the Kings had more free throws in that game until midway thru the 4th. And the Kings proceeded to foul intentionally late, which skewed the totals. I bet my wallet you didn't know that. But its no big. The thread is in here on NT somewhere.

Either way, I don't see anyone complaining about 06, just myself and Nako pointed it out, Ska spoke on 02, so be it. I'll fuss back and forth with dudes no prob, you and I danced plenty of times over the years, its all just killin time at work for me.

I just don't like Laker fans getting trashed everytime one person says something. Like 2-3-4 random people in here said Kobe was top 5 all time, because of that "Laker fans" get labeled with that, this thread gets by on that being technically overrated and people swing away at us like we claim Mark Madsen is a top 5 PF. It's garbage.

What shoulda happened was open a panel of NTers, guys that know stuff, crank out some sort of list of all timers and slot em. Sample sized right, 15-20 NTers or more, let them hash guys out, come up with somethin and present it.

That's better than random NTer I never heard of pulls thru with Kobe > Jordan and we all get lumped in with that person. Hence "Laker fans" as a derogatory label of some sort.

 

[darthska]

Trust, you're not taking crazy pills. But you and CP are both taking "This meaningless internet argument is really important!!" pills.

yes, Laker fans know we are at the good end of a lot of favorable calls over the years.

But is Kobe overrated?

it doesn't matter what you think CP or Laker fans are crying about.

Kobe: overrated? build an argument, respond to someone else's argument, or just leave the thread alone.

 

[quik1987]

Kobe finshes top 5 in mvp race for maybe barely making the playoffs when people were expecting them to win the chip this year?

WHAT?!?!

 

[mister friendly]

Kobe finshes top 5 in mvp race for maybe barely making the playoffs when people were expecting them to win the chip this year?

WHAT?!?!

Hes not the problem

 

[mertonhanks]

He never is...

 

[mister friendly]

Nope that's why hes a top 5 all time player

 

[sea manup]

So Kobe is goin to finish 3rd or 2nd when the Lakers make the playoffs as a #7 or 8 seed? Playing alongside Dwight, Pau, Nash?

Finishing above CP3, KD, and Parker whos teams are tops in the west?

have you been watching the lakers this season? apart from dwight once every three games, what have those three actually done for us this season?

 

[seasoned vet]

He never is...

repped.

 

[iamjusayn]

You get WAAAAY too emotional CP...that's probably why you got banned before. Real talk. .

 

[darthdeezy]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn

 

[xx hpdv iii]

I grew up watching Celtics games at the old Boston Garden. Bleed green and all that to this day. I aways thought Kobe was overrated (shocker). UNTIL THIS YEAR!!! Kobe had a million built-in excuses to throw in the towel this year but he won't allow his team to go out like that. I hate LA and the Lakers but do respect Kobe's determination and "never say die" attitude. Looking back, I was rediculous in ignoring his rings due to blind Celtics loyalty. All the Mamba stuff is the real deal. If next season is his last, it will be a huge loss to the league and NBA fans (stating obvious). Anyway, if I can give Kobe his props, anyone should be able to.

Statements like this are what kill me. Read everything you're saying... it's a joke.

"he won't allow his team to go out like that."

I mean... what the hell does that even mean?

This is the same as when people see the Lakers struggling and say "it pains me to see Kobe go out like this."

GO OUT LIKE WHAT?

If you've even remotely followed the Lakers' season, you would know that the reason they are in 8th place is because Kobe Bryant shoots them out of games. He has been doing it his whole career. The Lakers have always been trash during Kobe Bryant's career when he doesn't have 7-footers to bail out his brick-laying abilities. This year, Gasol has been hurt a lot, and Dwight doesn't play motivated because Kobe Bryant is too busy trying to break scoring records and not passing the ball.

It's very clear to anyone that understands basketball and watches the Lakers that he is the reason they're barely .500.

But people like you turn on the SportsCenter top 10 plays and see his scoring average vs. the other players on his team and conclude that the rest of the team isn't doing anything and Kobe Bryant is keeping them in the playoff hunt by his lonesome.

wait so you are saying that IF they stayed together kobes me me attitude would never allow the Lakers to win a championship again with shaq being the Finals MVP. I wonder what actually happened after shaq got traded to a team with another elite 2guard.

What the hell does this have to do with anything? Dwyane Wade is not Kobe Bryant.

In the 2006 playoffs, Dwyane Wade played at a level that Kobe Bryant has never been able to play at in the playoffs. That is why THAT elite 2-guard was able to win Finals MVP on a team with Shaq.

They won because Dwyane Wade was good enough to dominate a series vs. the Pistons in the ECF, something Kobe Bryant tried his hardest to do in 2004, but failed miserably.

They won because Dwayne Wade was good enough to dominate an NBA Finals and make all the key plays and free throws in the 2006 NBA Finals... something that Kobe Bryant tried to hard to do in 2004, but failed.

They won in 2006 because Dwyane Wade WAS THAT good, not because he THOUGHT he was THAT good, without actually being THAT good, word to Kobe in 2004.

 

[xx hpdv iii]

Also, I have another question.

The Kobe Stans in here keep saying how paying Shaq $20M for those last few years would have been a bad financial decision.

Let me guess... you guys also think that hitting Kobe with the amnesty to save $40-50M for next season is a stupid idea, right.

Figures.

 

[mister friendly]

I grew up watching Celtics games at the old Boston Garden. Bleed green and all that to this day. I aways thought Kobe was overrated (shocker). UNTIL THIS YEAR!!! Kobe had a million built-in excuses to throw in the towel this year but he won't allow his team to go out like that. I hate LA and the Lakers but do respect Kobe's determination and "never say die" attitude. Looking back, I was rediculous in ignoring his rings due to blind Celtics loyalty. All the Mamba stuff is the real deal. If next season is his last, it will be a huge loss to the league and NBA fans (stating obvious). Anyway, if I can give Kobe his props, anyone should be able to.

Statements like this are what kill me. Read everything you're saying... it's a joke.

"he won't allow his team to go out like that."

I mean... what the hell does that even mean?
This is the same as when people see the Lakers struggling and say "it pains me to see Kobe go out like this."

GO OUT LIKE WHAT?

If you've even remotely followed the Lakers' season, you would know that the reason they are in 8th place is because Kobe Bryant shoots them out of games. He has been doing it his whole career. The Lakers have always been trash during Kobe Bryant's career when he doesn't have 7-footers to bail out his brick-laying abilities. This year, Gasol has been hurt a lot, and Dwight doesn't play motivated because Kobe Bryant is too busy trying to break scoring records and not passing the ball.

It's very clear to anyone that understands basketball and watches the Lakers that he is the reason they're barely .500.

But people like you turn on the SportsCenter top 10 plays and see his scoring average vs. the other players on his team and conclude that the rest of the team isn't doing anything and Kobe Bryant is keeping them in the playoff hunt by his lonesome.

wait so you are saying that IF they stayed together kobes me me attitude would never allow the Lakers to win a championship again with shaq being the Finals MVP. I wonder what actually happened after shaq got traded to a team with another elite 2guard.

What the hell does this have to do with anything? Dwyane Wade is not Kobe Bryant.

In the 2006 playoffs, Dwyane Wade played at a level that Kobe Bryant has never been able to play at in the playoffs. That is why THAT elite 2-guard was able to win Finals MVP on a team with Shaq.

They won because Dwyane Wade was good enough to dominate a series vs. the Pistons in the ECF, something Kobe Bryant tried his hardest to do in 2004, but failed miserably.

They won because Dwayne Wade was good enough to dominate an NBA Finals and make all the key plays and free throws in the 2006 NBA Finals... something that Kobe Bryant tried to hard to do in 2004, but failed.

They won in 2006 because Dwyane Wade WAS THAT good, not because he THOUGHT he was THAT good, without actually being THAT good, word to Kobe in 2004.[/S]

......rollin

The Wade stuff is funny but shooting them out of games is even more hilarious. Hes shooting them out of games but leads all shooting guards in assists.

 

[mister friendly]

Also, I have another question.

The Kobe Stans in here keep saying how paying Shaq $20M for those last few years would have been a bad financial decision.

Let me guess... you guys also think that hitting Kobe with the amnesty to save $40-50M for next season is a stupid idea, right.


Figures.

So you're gonna amnesty your most productive player that only has one year left on contract. that pays him 30 million not 40 or 50 million btw( I don't know where you even got that ignorant figure from) to go pick up Kevin Martin or Manu?????? Because those are the only UFA shooting guards available this summer. And I guess you'd amnesty him because no team would want him? Nobody would give you draft picks or players for him? Do you realize like the best players to be amnested in the new CBA are Chauncey Billups and Luis Scola. Wouldnt it make more sense to amnesty Nash since he has 2 years left on his contract and has been far less productive?


At least if youre going to write make outrageous statements at least have them make sense

Also come on dude you have 62 posts and all but 10 are hating on Kobe or the Lakers. And 5 of those non-Kobe hating posts are Lebron Stan posts.

Its ok to have a passing dislike of something but you're really obsessed with hating on Kobe. a person you've never met and probably never will meet in real life.

 

[mjgreatxii]

Im convinced hpv is just quik under a different screen name.

Like alll they post about is kobe.

If you hate em that much just stop but nope all day these dudes be thinking of ways to discredit the man.

 

[nako xl]

Im convinced hpv is just quik under a different screen name.

Like alll they post about is kobe.

If you hate em that much just stop but nope all day these dudes be thinking of ways to discredit the man.

hpv is someone's troll name. i'm not sure it's quick but look at the account's post history. it's an account someone uses just to write over the top/troll like stuff.

 

[mjgreatxii]

Ive always wondered cant they just set it up so if your ip address already has a user name you cant create a new account

Theres a lot of troll accounts

 

[mertonhanks]

have you been watching the lakers this season? apart from dwight once every three games, what have those three actually done for us this season?

Yes, I've been watching LA. Dwight is still the best C in the league even at 75%. No other center is putting up the numbers hes putting up, and hes the only one giving a damn on D on the team. And that wasnt even the point of my post. We're discussing MVP. Why should Kobe deserve the MVP, gettin his team to the #8 seed, more than the best player on the first, second, or third seed in the West? Thats the point i was getting at.

Yall complain about "Haters" discrediting Kobe. But look at what some of yall credit Kobe for. MVP for getting his team into the playoffs as the #8 seed playing alongside the best Center in the league (even at 75%). Only Kobe...

Dont call me a Hater now.

 

[nako xl]

Dwight's not in the top 10 of PER for centers

 

[xx hpdv iii]

Hes not the problem