IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[seasoned vet]

Man look at this guy

its CP man. what do you expect?

 

[CP1708]

Yep, you give up, cuz not one word I said is wrong. It's ok, no ones watchin bruh.

 

[quik1987]

Keep going, come on, keep goin.......

Mention the Heat swept in rd 1 the next year, then trading Shaq a few months later, then mention the 3 straight Finals for LA. You can say it, come on now.

Ok, you tell what Kobe was doing from 04-07 first though

 

[SneakerProSr.]

This thread makes me realize I like to argue just to argue

Damn its a personality flaw.

 

[CP1708]

This thread makes me realize I like to argue just to argue

Damn its a personality flaw.

Good debates are cool tho. Long as people got knowledge, nothin better man.

GL tonight man. Not really, but in theory.

 

[sea manup]

Keep going, come on, keep goin.......

Mention the Heat swept in rd 1 the next year, then trading Shaq a few months later, then mention the 3 straight Finals for LA. You can say it, come on now.

Ok, you tell what Kobe was doing from 04-07 first though

rebuilding so that they could win another two chips 

 

[Jordan8]

Yep, you give up, cuz not one word I said is wrong. It's ok, no ones watchin bruh.

Son i acknowledged the Lakers winning a championship and I also mentioned how long it took them....its right there in print....why do you jump from point to point like a irrational female?

 

[darthska]

[quote name="SneakerPro"]This thread makes me realize I like to argue just to argue could not possibly care any less how different my opinion is from anyone else

Damn its a personality flaw I'm awesome.[/quote]Fixed, for me.

 

[CP1708]

Yep, you give up, cuz not one word I said is wrong. It's ok, no ones watchin bruh.

Son i acknowledged the Lakers winning a championship and I also mentioned how long it took them....its right there in print....why do you jump from point to point like a irrational female?

How long.

How long after Bird?

How long after MJ?

How long after Magic?

How long after Hakeem

Cleveland gon be anywhere in 5 years after Bron?

Took us 4 years to reach the Finals missing 2 starters. We then won back to back. All within 6 seasons. 3 Finals in 6 years after trading Shaq.

LA won more than the Heat did after trading them Shaq. Think about that with your hating self.

 

[iamjusayn]

Does anyone remember that NBA Finals when Kobe dominated?





Me neither.

 

[nako xl]

I'm getting old but I must have missed the season Omer Asik put up 17 and 8

Man Nako you gotta stop exagerrating to get try an get your point across.

Asik is averaging 10 and 12 his first season as a starter.  Shaq averaged 13 and 11 his first year in PHO before the 17 and 8.  I'm exaggerating but somehow the only season you reply to is the 17 and 8. 

Ok.

Would you prefer if I said Nikola Pekovic type numbers?  Better?

For 5 years $100 million.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

I'm getting old but I must have missed the season Omer Asik put up 17 and 8


Man Nako you gotta stop exagerrating to get try an get your point across.

Asik is averaging 10 and 12 his first season as a starter.  Shaq averaged 13 and 11 his first year in PHO before the 17 and 8.  I'm exaggerating but somehow the only season you reply to is the 17 and 8. 

Ok.

Would you prefer if I said Nikola Pekovic type numbers?  Better?

For 5 years $100 million.

You know good in hell well Shaq didn't average those numbers during his whole contract.

Hell you yall paying Pau Gasol 20 mil a year now for those numbers.

 

[nako xl]

I'm getting old but I must have missed the season Omer Asik put up 17 and 8


Man Nako you gotta stop exagerrating to get try an get your point across.

Asik is averaging 10 and 12 his first season as a starter.  Shaq averaged 13 and 11 his first year in PHO before the 17 and 8.  I'm exaggerating but somehow the only season you reply to is the 17 and 8. 

Ok.

Would you prefer if I said Nikola Pekovic type numbers?  Better?

For 5 years $100 million.

You know good in hell well Shaq didn't average those numbers during his whole contract.

Hell you yall paying Pau Gasol 20 mil a year now for those numbers.

CP said re-upping with Shaq wasn't worth the money he wanted when he was DONE 3 years after he would have gotten the new contract.

quik and the others argued that Shaq wasn't done that he was still producing EVEN in Phoenix.

So I quoted Shaq's Phoenix numbers and emphasized that they would have been paying him $100 million over 5 years for that.  Omer Asik and Nikola Pekovic type production.  For possibly 1 more title, which is what he managed over that span.

Who cares what he averaged over the course of the contract.  The point is what he was doing in Phoenix, whether he was done or not, and whether it was worth how much LA would have had to pay him at the time at his age.

Pau Gasol is 32.  Shaq is 41.

Stop arguing with me for the sake of arguing.

 

[xx hpdv iii]

Shaq didn't average a double double tho.

1 first round exit in 2 seasons = factor. Dumbest ******g statement ever.

He was done. The numbers are right in your face, learn to read.

LA traded an all time top 10 player and were in the Finals after 3 years. They absolutely did the right thing, get over it.

How about when Bean got the first round boot in 06 & 07, and didn't make the playoffs in 2005?

Was he a factor?

Oh wait, y'all were crying about him getting robbed of two MVP awards.

This thread just shows why we hate Laker fans.

 

[CP1708]

No, Kobe and the Lakers were not a factor those 3 years. They were CLEARLY rebuilding.

And while the Heat won 1 title in their 3 years of keeping Shaq before they traded him away, LA build up a team that by far surpassed what Shaq and the Heat did.

And ya'lls stupid ****** point was that LA should have kept Shaq and would have won MORE than the 5 they were able to reach which is a flat out wrong, uninformed, stupid statement. Made up in fantasy land by all you haters. People that actually follow the Lakers know better, we were better off moving on from Shaq when we did.

 

[xx hpdv iii]

No, Kobe and the Lakers were not a factor those 3 years. They were CLEARLY rebuilding.

And while the Heat won 1 title in their 3 years of keeping Shaq before they traded him away, LA build up a team that by far surpassed what Shaq and the Heat did.

And ya'lls stupid ****** point was that LA should have kept Shaq and would have won MORE than the 5 they were able to reach which is a flat out wrong, uninformed, stupid statement. Made up in fantasy land by all you haters. People that actually follow the Lakers know better, we were better off moving on from Shaq when we did.

What exactly is your point?

The Heat traded for Shaq and contended for 2 years... then they sucked for 3 years, rebuilt, and went to 3 straight Finals.

The Lakers sucked for 3 years, traded for Gasol, went to 3 straight Finals, and now they have sucked again for 3 years.

It's overwhelming how much ONE KEVIN GARNETT INJURY can manipulate the minds of millions of delusional Kobe Bean Bryant fans.

 

[darthska]

Accuracy and fairness really help build your point; inaccuracy and unfairness really dilute your point.

Inaccurate: the Heat went to 3 straight finals.

Unfairness: acknowledging the Celtics were not at full strength during the Lakers win over BOS without acknowledging the Lakers were not at full strength during the Celtics win over LAL.

Just saying.

 

[sea manup]

wait we're talking about todays heat now? i thought this was about kobe and shaq 

 

[CP1708]

No, Kobe and the Lakers were not a factor those 3 years. They were CLEARLY rebuilding.


And while the Heat won 1 title in their 3 years of keeping Shaq before they traded him away, LA build up a team that by far surpassed what Shaq and the Heat did.


And ya'lls stupid ****** point was that LA should have kept Shaq and would have won MORE than the 5 they were able to reach which is a flat out wrong, uninformed, stupid statement. Made up in fantasy land by all you haters. People that actually follow the Lakers know better, we were better off moving on from Shaq when we did.

What exactly is your point?

The Heat traded for Shaq and contended for 2 years... then they sucked for 3 years, rebuilt, and went to 3 straight Finals.

The Lakers sucked for 3 years, traded for Gasol, went to 3 straight Finals, and now they have sucked again for 3 years.



It's overwhelming how much ONE KEVIN GARNETT INJURY can manipulate the minds of millions of delusional Kobe Bean Bryant fans.

Yeah, ok. Clearly I'm not debating with one of the smart, knowledgeable ones. Ok, I'll type slowly for you.

People, in HERE, claimed that the Lakers could have won MORE titles had they kept Shaq and Kobe together.

So, the bar is then 5, as that is what Kobe has done in his Laker tenure. In other words, keeping Shaq would have to = out to at least 5, and to be MORE, it would mean 6. Obviously, 5 would still be acceptable.

My point, was that Shaq was done within 3 years. IE, he was not going to help the LA Lakers win more titles in 2006-07-08-09, etc etc etc.

Him going to Miami, and winning 1, then dropping off a huge rate shows as proof to my claims. His advanced age, weight, salary was not conducive to winning titles any longer, even as Kobe would have been coming into his peak powers.

If Shaq stays, LA does NOT win in 09-10, and most likely does not make the Finals in 2008. Do they do better in 2005 or 06? Yes, probably so. Does that guarantee them titles both seasons? No, absolutely not.

Therefore, I have concluded that the Lakers were in fact completely right in their approach to trading Shaq, and rebuilding the roster around Kobe Bryant. They did it on the fly, and were able to reach 3 straight Finals. In terms of imaginary made up woulda coulda shoula's, I mentioned that had the Lakers not been missing 2 starters on the 2008 team, they may have won THREE titles after Shaq, instead of only 2. But alas, we'll never know.

You bringing up LeBron James and Chris Bosh as a part of the Heat is pointless, baseless, and frankly really stupid. It shows clearly that you will say anything you can to discredit this discussion and you aren't going to get a word I or anyone else is saying that isn't just agreeing with you that Kobe sucks. Therefore, I just wasted my time talking with you, and you shall be on ignore from now on.

 

[xx hpdv iii]

^ The reason I brought that up is because someone in this thread (maybe you) pointed out that other teams are not able to quickly rebuild after a championship team is broken up.

Also, I agree that the Lakers would not have won more than 2 championships if they kept Shaq. However, that has absolutely nothing to do with Shaq, his contract, or his age. It has everything to do with Kobe Bryant's "me, me!" attitude because 2004 showed us that his "me me!" attitude would never allow the Lakers to win a championship again with Shaq being Finals MVP.

And Ska, Bynum was not going to help L.A. beat Boston in 2008. You know that.

You also know that Pau Gasol was not going to get 19 & 18 in game 7 in 2010 if Kendrick Perkins didn't tear his ACL, nor was Kobe going to get 14-15 rebounds.

You also know that Miami is going to their 3rd straight Finals this year... and yes, it IS a foregone conclusion.

 

[quik1987]

Why do you guys get so emmotinal when defending Kobe? Serious question. Resorting to cursing and name calling. Why are so much of your emotions invested in defending him CP?

I'm curious.

And for the record I never said anuthing about shaq during suns years

I was talking about heat years

They could'vr contended during the period kobe was exiting in the first round and missing the playoffs, traded shaq after 3 years for gasol or whoever in a trade that actually wouldn't be a robbery and contend for a few more.

Basically in the years kobe was doing nothing, he could've been doing something

 

[CP1708]

Quik, I'm not defending Kobe AT ALL. I am talking about THE LAKERS, a topic I happen to know a LOT about.

I am a big fan of sports, as I expect everyone in here to be, as we are on a sports forum. I assume you all have teams you root for, just as I.

When you people come thru and start saying a bunch of ******** that is absolutely untrue, I'm going to call it out.

Kobe, happens to be a part of that team. If you guys had your facts right, I wouldn't have to say a word now would I?

I know that you yourself did not bring up the Suns, that was someone else, duly noted. However, you saying "they could have contended for 3 years, etc etc and traded Shaq LATER, is wrong, it's flat out, wrong. Contended, does NOT = WIN. It does not. Been in the playoffs? Sure. Made the 2nd round? Sure. Guaranteed to win a title, or multiple titles? NO. And that, is what the LA Lakers goal is.

We sucked for 3 years, ABSOLUTELY. We had to rebuil the ENTIRE roster. It wasn't just Shaq. Horry was gone, Fox was gone, Fisher was gone, Malone and Payton from 04 were now gone. It was Kobe, Luke Walton, Devean George and the pieces we got for Shaq. (LO, Grant, Butler) We had to begin all over again.

That's what has to happen to rebuild. And every move we made, worked. (outside of the lifetime deal we gave Walton )
Drafted Bynum, Drafted Farmar, Drafted Turiaf. Brought in Sasha from overseas. Eventually we traded for Ariza, brought Fisher back, developed our young players as Kobe and LO did the heavy lifting, and then made the big move for Pau. Who did we trade? Another draft pick, Critt, another draft pick in Marc Gasol, and then cap space. We built that core in those 3 years, suddenly had a window re-opened.

THOSE are the facts. You Kobe haters just run your mouths and say Kobe HATED EVERYONE, HE FIRED EVERYONE, HE WANTED SMUSH, and KWAME, AND COOK, BLAH BLAH BLAH, but that is not what happened. Not even close. I follow this team EVERY, SINGLE, DAY. I follow the Dolphins, the Cubs, my Hurricanes, and while doing that, also follow the rest of the teams/players in the leagues. Sports is what I know. I just happen to know more about my own teams than other teams (as I assume most would)

So you want to hate on Kobe himself, fine. Discredit his stats, ok. We can debate that, argue, analyze, fuss over, no prob. You start makin **** up about how my franchise ran it's business and what they did or did not do over the course of years, I'm callin that **** out. Every ****** day. I don't care who you are. Most of us been here years, it's what we do, we fuss on this very message board.

So if you want to keep saying a bunch of crap that is untrue and made up make believe, be my guest, but I'm going to call it out. I don't live in fantasy land. Saying Shaq and Kobe would have won more than 5 if LA kept Shaq longer is WRONG. It's pointless propaganda made up by people who want to do nothing but place blame on Kobe. I have showed countless ways Shaq was deteriorating those next 3 years, we would not have added 2 more titles going that path. The route we did take, worked. Point blank, plain, and simple. It has nothing to do with defending Kobe, it's me showing that the Lakers did the right move at every step.

Outside of the lifetime deal to Luke Walton.

 

[ryder1129]

I grew up watching Celtics games at the old Boston Garden. Bleed green and all that to this day. I aways thought Kobe was overrated (shocker). UNTIL THIS YEAR!!! Kobe had a million built-in excuses to throw in the towel this year but he won't allow his team to go out like that. I hate LA and the Lakers but do respect Kobe's determination and "never say die" attitude. Looking back, I was rediculous in ignoring his rings due to blind Celtics loyalty. All the Mamba stuff is the real deal. If next season is his last, it will be a huge loss to the league and NBA fans (stating obvious). Anyway, if I can give Kobe his props, anyone should be able to.

 

[sea manup]

Why do you guys get so emmotinal when defending Kobe? Serious question. Resorting to cursing and name calling. Why are so much of your emotions invested in defending him CP?

I'm curious.

And for the record I never said anuthing about shaq during suns years

I was talking about heat years

They could'vr contended during the period kobe was exiting in the first round and missing the playoffs, traded shaq after 3 years for gasol or whoever in a trade that actually wouldn't be a robbery and contend for a few more.

Basically in the years kobe was doing nothing, he could've been doing something

trading shaq for gasol in 08 would have been more of a robbery than the actual trade that went down. 

 

[sea manup]

^ The reason I brought that up is because someone in this thread (maybe you) pointed out that other teams are not able to quickly rebuild after a championship team is broken up.

Also, I agree that the Lakers would not have won more than 2 championships if they kept Shaq. However, that has absolutely nothing to do with Shaq, his contract, or his age. It has everything to do with Kobe Bryant's "me, me!" attitude because 2004 showed us that his "me me!" attitude would never allow the Lakers to win a championship again with Shaq being Finals MVP.

And Ska, Bynum was not going to help L.A. beat Boston in 2008. You know that.

You also know that Pau Gasol was not going to get 19 & 18 in game 7 in 2010 if Kendrick Perkins didn't tear his ACL, nor was Kobe going to get 14-15 rebounds.

You also know that Miami is going to their 3rd straight Finals this year... and yes, it IS a foregone conclusion.

wait so you are saying that IF they stayed together kobes me me attitude would never allow the Lakers to win a championship again with shaq being the Finals MVP. I wonder what actually happened after shaq got traded to a team with another elite 2guard.