IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[denni5themenace]

Shaq's apex > Kobe's. Kobe's longevity > Shaq's. two guys can BOTH be great.

I might need your help here, stay with me a minute.

Everyone, don't blow up. Stay cool. This is a legit, honest question, no one go crazy. Think, and speak honestly.


All the jokes the last few pages, everyone trolling around, here's a real one.

Take Mike, PRIME Mike, and drop him in LA 2000-02 with Shaq. PRIME Shaq.

Does Shaq drive the bus, or does Mike? IE, Finals MVP with Shaq and Mike, would Mike still get all the hardware, or does Shaq?

93 Mike on 2000 LA with Shaq.

What do you guys think?


I kind of think Mike would get or even average triple doubles, but Shaq would still be in the 30/14/4 range, Mike's points would come down, but his other numbers would go, Rondoish type 24/12/13 type averages. I'm talkin 93 Mike, not 98. By then he was fading (for him) as a player, but that Suns series, Mike was flat out stupid.


Ska, Allen, Trust, Nako, quik, what do you guys think? In real terms, what would that combo look like, numbers wise?

in each of the 3 peat finals, shaq had the easier matchup against the opposing C. shaq's numbers were stupid and i still think he would have had the finals MVP for each of those.

 

[quik1987]

Lakers can do no wrong in Lakers fans eyes, even in hindsight

 

[iamjusayn]

Shaq was not done when he left the lakers unless we are speaking of two different shaqs

 

[Jordan8]

Shaq was not done when he left the lakers unless we are speaking of two different shaqs

I dont have any idea whats going on anymore. Shaq was still a factor even as a Sun in '08. I think dude even through up 50 and 11 one game as a Sun

Old Shaq? No. But clearly he was not done even 6 years removed from the Lakers

Together Kobe and Shaq plus the way the front office put teams together around them could have kept it moving

 

[sea manup]

Shaq was not done when he left the lakers unless we are speaking of two different shaqs

I dont have any idea whats going on anymore. Shaq was still a factor even as a Sun in '08. I think dude even through up 50 and 11 one game as a Sun

Old Shaq? No. But clearly he was not done even 6 years removed from the Lakers

Together Kobe and Shaq plus the way the front office put teams together around them could have kept it moving

what everyone is trying to say is that kobe AND shaq was not possible, so lets forget about that for a second. now when choosing between kobe OR shaq post 2004, kobe > shaq no matter how many years shaq had left in his body

 

[denni5themenace]

Shaq was not done when he left the lakers unless we are speaking of two different shaqs

I dont have any idea whats going on anymore. Shaq was still a factor even as a Sun in '08. I think dude even through up 50 and 11 one game as a Sun


Old Shaq? No. But clearly he was not done even 6 years removed from the Lakers


Together Kobe and Shaq plus the way the front office put teams together around them could have kept it moving

what everyone is trying to say is that kobe AND shaq was not possible, so lets forget about that for a second. now when choosing between kobe OR shaq post 2004, kobe > shaq no matter how many years shaq had left in his body

no. shaq's imaginary rings with kobe > kobe's real rings without shaq

 

[sea manup]

Shaq was not done when he left the lakers unless we are speaking of two different shaqs

I dont have any idea whats going on anymore. Shaq was still a factor even as a Sun in '08. I think dude even through up 50 and 11 one game as a Sun


Old Shaq? No. But clearly he was not done even 6 years removed from the Lakers


Together Kobe and Shaq plus the way the front office put teams together around them could have kept it moving

what everyone is trying to say is that kobe AND shaq was not possible, so lets forget about that for a second. now when choosing between kobe OR shaq post 2004, kobe > shaq no matter how many years shaq had left in his body

no. shaq's imaginary rings with kobe > kobe's real rings without shaq

yeah but kobe would have won more rings playing with magic worthy and kareem than shaq would have if he was on those 80s lakers teams. so obviously kobe >>> shaq

 

[nako xl]

Shaq was not done when he left the lakers unless we are speaking of two different shaqs

I dont have any idea whats going on anymore. Shaq was still a factor even as a Sun in '08. I think dude even through up 50 and 11 one game as a Sun

Old Shaq? No. But clearly he was not done even 6 years removed from the Lakers

Together Kobe and Shaq plus the way the front office put teams together around them could have kept it moving

shaq avg'd 12.9 pts 10.6 rbnds and 17.8 pts 8.4 rbnds in his two years with phoenix.

those are omer asik type numbers.  you think that's a good investment at 5 years $100 million?

 

[ohmygosher]

Kobe > Jordan.

 

[CP1708]

Shaq was not done when he left the lakers unless we are speaking of two different shaqs

I dont have any idea whats going on anymore. Shaq was still a factor even as a Sun in '08. I think dude even through up 50 and 11 one game as a Sun

Old Shaq? No. But clearly he was not done even 6 years removed from the Lakers

Together Kobe and Shaq plus the way the front office put teams together around them could have kept it moving

Shaq, was still a factor, as a Sun....... My god some of you people.

Shaq at 33 played 59 games.
Next season, 40
Then 61
Got up to 75
Then 53
Then 37

Averaged 20, 17, 13, 18, 12, and 9 those years.

Still a factor, cuz one game he had 45 against the Raptors (he had 3 30 point games that season, 3)

Still a factor.

Factor Shaq was out in the first round the year after they won the title in 06.
Out in the first round the next year
Missed the playoffs the next year
Then joined Lebron and the Celtics his final 2 years, doing nothing.

Shaq had TWO strong, solid seasons after being traded from LA. 2004-05, and 2005-06. From that point forward, factor Shaq was no longer, a factor.

Stop making stuff up. The Lakers have absolutely, completely been better off after moving Shaq. Not the first 2 years, but every season since, they made the absolute correct choice to move on from Shaq.

You guys want to be baseless, the Lakers may have just 3 peated if Bynum AND Ariza were able to play at 100% in the 08 Finals. If 40% of their starting lineup plays, maybe they win 3 titles instead of 2. We'll never know tho, so it don't matter. Bottom line, they won 2 post Shaq, Shaq won 1 post LA. Advantage LA. Stop making up they woulda won____ number of times, its a pointless argument, just as my claim about the 08 Finals sounds ridiculous to you guys.

 

[CP1708]

Shaq was not done when he left the lakers unless we are speaking of two different shaqs

I dont have any idea whats going on anymore. Shaq was still a factor even as a Sun in '08. I think dude even through up 50 and 11 one game as a Sun


Old Shaq? No. But clearly he was not done even 6 years removed from the Lakers


Together Kobe and Shaq plus the way the front office put teams together around them could have kept it moving

shaq avg'd 12.9 pts 10.6 rbnds and 17.8 pts 8.4 rbnds in his two years with phoenix.

those are omer asik type numbers.  you think that's a good investment at 5 years $100 million?

He scored 45 in one of those games tho. And they played 5 playoff games total in those 2 years.

#Factor

 

[pmatic]

Problem with keeping Shaq-Kobe in 2004, is the surrounding parts.

I'm not sure management could have acquired the players to round out the roster. But I guess you didn't need too much with a past his prime, but productive Shaq and peak Kobe?

 

[SneakerProSr.]

I'm getting old but I must have missed the season Omer Asik put up 17 and 8

Man Nako you gotta stop exagerrating to get try an get your point across.

 

[seasoned vet]

i LOVE this thread.

CP to the rescue as usual.

oh and i agree, Kobe is overrated. had he stayed on the Hornets he'd of been another TMAC or AI. ill be glad when this clown retires too.

 

[xx hpdv iii]

first off i said top two 2guards of the era, so after kobe its wade, 1 and 2 best shooting guards. secondly how is kobe lucky to play with dwight? what has he done this season? bynum was better last year than dwight has been this year, wade in 06 was leaps and bounds better than dwight has been this year. you say that like kobe has not won more championships that shaq after he left the lakers

What has Dwight done this season?

What has Kobe done this season except cost his team games because he doesn't pass the ball to guys like Dwight..?

 

[Jordan8]

shaq avg'd 12.9 pts 10.6 rbnds and 17.8 pts 8.4 rbnds in his two years with phoenix.

those are omer asik type numbers.  you think that's a good investment at 5 years $100 million?

They paid Andrew Bynum around the same for less production.....tho

Yes Hindsight is 20/20 but like I said its still seems like the right decision

 

[Jordan8]

He scored 45 in one of those games tho. And they played 5 playoff games total in those 2 years.

#Factor

Only on NT is averaging a double double not a factor....

How much of a "factor" was Pau with the same career numbers as a Laker as Shaq as a Sun ?

U people slay me

 

[sea manup]

He scored 45 in one of those games tho. And they played 5 playoff games total in those 2 years.

#Factor

Only on NT is averaging a double double not a factor....

How much of a "factor" was Pau with the same career numbers as a Laker as Shaq as a Sun ?

U people slay me

CP means that he was not a main factor/franchise player anymore, of course he helped the suns/cavs win games just not as the number one option which kobe was during those years 

 

[xx hpdv iii]

Does anyone remember that NBA Finals when Kobe dominated?

Me neither.

 

[Jordan8]

CP means that he was not a main factor/franchise player anymore, of course he helped the suns/cavs win games just not as the number one option which kobe was during those years 

Must be straw manning cause I never even said he was a number one option option.

I said even as a Sun he was still a factor...

1fac·tor noun \ˈfak-tər\

a (1) : one that actively contributes to the production of a result

Which added to the fact that even 5 years removed from the Lakers Shaq wasnt "done"

 

[CP1708]

Shaq didn't average a double double tho.

1 first round exit in 2 seasons = factor. Dumbest ******g statement ever.

He was done. The numbers are right in your face, learn to read.

LA traded an all time top 10 player and were in the Finals after 3 years. They absolutely did the right thing, get over it.

 

[Jordan8]

Shaq didn't average a double double tho.

1 first round exit in 2 seasons = factor. Dumbest ******g statement ever.

He was done. The numbers are right in your face, learn to read.

LA traded an all time top 10 player and were in the Finals after 3 years. They absolutely did the right thing, get over it.

My eye math was off...my bad

His 2 years as a Sun he was .5 rebounds away from averaging a double double.....you got me

And yea the Miami Heat traded for an all time top 10 player and were in the ECF the very next year

And won it all within 2 years....not 3 like the Lakers when they loss....or the 5 it took them to win one.

Right thing? Absolutely?

 

[CP1708]

Keep going, come on, keep goin.......

Mention the Heat swept in rd 1 the next year, then trading Shaq a few months later, then mention the 3 straight Finals for LA. You can say it, come on now.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

The Lakers keeping Shaq and winning championships later aren't mutually exclusive things in my opinion.

 

[Jordan8]

Man look at this guy