IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[ohmygosher]

^

I mentioned that "No one would have won finals MVP over shaq during the three peat, not even Jordan. He was that dominant" about a couple thousand pages back, but I guess it made too much sense for this thread and got overlooked.

 

[sea manup]

Shaq's apex > Kobe's. Kobe's longevity > Shaq's. two guys can BOTH be great.

I might need your help here, stay with me a minute.

Everyone, don't blow up. Stay cool. This is a legit, honest question, no one go crazy. Think, and speak honestly.


All the jokes the last few pages, everyone trolling around, here's a real one.

Take Mike, PRIME Mike, and drop him in LA 2000-02 with Shaq. PRIME Shaq.

Does Shaq drive the bus, or does Mike? IE, Finals MVP with Shaq and Mike, would Mike still get all the hardware, or does Shaq?

93 Mike on 2000 LA with Shaq.

What do you guys think?


I kind of think Mike would get or even average triple doubles, but Shaq would still be in the 30/14/4 range, Mike's points would come down, but his other numbers would go, Rondoish type 24/12/13 type averages. I'm talkin 93 Mike, not 98. By then he was fading (for him) as a player, but that Suns series, Mike was flat out stupid.


Ska, Allen, Trust, Nako, quik, what do you guys think? In real terms, what would that combo look like, numbers wise?

well of course he would be way better than frobe but i honestly think that in terms of a #1 scoring option, nothing beats dumping the ball to shaq in the post. Only players that could keep up with shaqs offensive productivity in nba history are hakeem, kareem and maybe wilt. but im old school and love post play, so thats just my opinion. kobe put up huge numbers vs west teams in the play offs so i think that jordan would be the overall playoffs mvp, but since there is only a finals mvp award and that means playing east coast teams, shaq would get all 3 finals mvps.

 

[darthska]

I'm not going to speculate what the numbers would look like, but I still think it yields a 3-peat, and MJ is the FMVP every time, imo.

 

[mister friendly]

Shaq's apex > Kobe's. Kobe's longevity > Shaq's. two guys can BOTH be great.

I might need your help here, stay with me a minute.

Everyone, don't blow up. Stay cool. This is a legit, honest question, no one go crazy. Think, and speak honestly.


All the jokes the last few pages, everyone trolling around, here's a real one.

Take Mike, PRIME Mike, and drop him in LA 2000-02 with Shaq. PRIME Shaq.

Does Shaq drive the bus, or does Mike? IE, Finals MVP with Shaq and Mike, would Mike still get all the hardware, or does Shaq?

93 Mike on 2000 LA with Shaq.

What do you guys think?


I kind of think Mike would get or even average triple doubles, but Shaq would still be in the 30/14/4 range, Mike's points would come down, but his other numbers would go, Rondoish type 24/12/13 type averages. I'm talkin 93 Mike, not 98. By then he was fading (for him) as a player, but that Suns series, Mike was flat out stupid.


Ska, Allen, Trust, Nako, quik, what do you guys think? In real terms, what would that combo look like, numbers wise?

You bought up a great point.

MJ probably would've got one but great post play always beats great wing play. Kobe gained alot but he also sacrificed alot with Shaq.

 

[darthdeezy]

Kobe modeled his game after Jordan.
Almost perfectly.
To be one of the best why not emulate yourself from the best?

ACCOLADES aside, if an alien came to earth right now and had no knowledge of the Nba or its history and you put dude on a court with Kobe and Mj for some pick up ball it would be very difficult to distinguish the 2 and their skill set.

 

[al3xis]

I have a a hard time seeing a healthy and motivated Shaq playing 2nd fiddle to anyone. Same with peak-Jordan obviously, so I guess I don't have an answer. It'd be as much of an equal partnership as there could be in my mind. Mike's PPG drop before Shaq's though, I agree there.

 

[quik1987]

MJ would win 6 in a row and 6 mvp trophies in a row averaging triple double numbers

Shaq would never reach his full potential

 

[sea manup]

I have a a hard time seeing a healthy and motivated Shaq playing 2nd fiddle to anyone. Same with peak-Jordan obviously, so I guess I don't have an answer. It'd be as much of an equal partnership as there could be in my mind. Mike's PPG drop before Shaq's though, I agree there.

yeah its really a tossup, i do think that prime shaq was the most dominant player in NBA history though

 

[mister friendly]

Honestly now that I think about I dont Jordan wins any Finals MVPs with Shaq because Jordan was less selfish than Kobe. (remember UNC)

But I think Jordan with Shaq puts up "better" fantasy numbers than Kobe though. Like 29 PPG, 9RPG, 9 APG while shooting 55 pct

 

[sea manup]

MJ would win 6 in a row and 6 mvp trophies in a row averaging triple double numbers

Shaq would never reach his full potential

but imagine if JR smith was on those lakers teams 

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Kobe modeled his game after Jordan.
Almost perfectly.
To be one of the best why not emulate yourself from the best?

ACCOLADES aside, if an alien came to earth right now and had no knowledge of the Nba or its history and you put dude on a court with Kobe and Mj for some pick up ball it would be very difficult to distinguish the 2 and their skill set.

Jordan rarely took the ridiculous shots Kobe settles for.

 

[sea manup]

Honestly now that I think about I dont Jordan wins any Finals MVPs with Shaq because Jordan was less selfish than Kobe. (remember UNC)

But I think Jordan with Shaq puts up "better" fantasy numbers than Kobe though. Like 29 PPG, 9RPG, 9 APG while shooting 55 pct

jordan has never been on a team where he is not the clear cut best scoring option so its really hard to say if he would defer to shaq or not

 

[quik1987]

Shaq/MJ pick and roll would be unstoppable

 

[sea manup]

since his jersey is getting retired tonight, someone should make a shaq appreciation thread 

 

[iamjusayn]

Kobe modeled his game after Jordan.
Almost perfectly.
To be one of the best why not emulate yourself from the best?

ACCOLADES aside, if an alien came to earth right now and had no knowledge of the Nba or its history and you put dude on a court with Kobe and Mj for some pick up ball it would be very difficult to distinguish the 2 and their skill set.

I think if the greys saw this one on one match they would be able to distinguish Mike from bryant n see mike was better mainly because bryant would be trying way too hard and trying to tame his game a tad to not get beat too bad aka playing it safe while MJ would be playing his normal calm demeanor with killer instincts.

MJ would rip that boy's heart out. All moves would be off the hip spin or up n under counter move.

Would this be winner's take out or loser's? Winner's MJ might not even hv to play D!

Very serious

 

[sea manup]

Kobe modeled his game after Jordan.
Almost perfectly.
To be one of the best why not emulate yourself from the best?

ACCOLADES aside, if an alien came to earth right now and had no knowledge of the Nba or its history and you put dude on a court with Kobe and Mj for some pick up ball it would be very difficult to distinguish the 2 and their skill set.

I think if the greys saw this one on one match they would be able to distinguish Mike from bryant n see mike was better mainly because bryant would be trying way too hard and trying to tame his game a tad to not get beat too bad aka playing it safe while MJ would be playing his normal calm demeanor with killer instincts.

MJ would rip that boy's heart out. All moves would be off the hip spin or up n under counter move.

Would this be winner's take out or loser's? Winner's MJ might not even hv to play D!

Very serious

do you even watch kobe? when has he ever been known to play it safe. the main reason people dont like him is because he doesnt play it safe and takes tough shots

 

[ohmygosher]

If the aliens saw them play, they'd say Kobe > MJ.

 

[mister friendly]

Kobe modeled his game after Jordan.
Almost perfectly.
To be one of the best why not emulate yourself from the best?

ACCOLADES aside, if an alien came to earth right now and had no knowledge of the Nba or its history and you put dude on a court with Kobe and Mj for some pick up ball it would be very difficult to distinguish the 2 and their skill set.

Jordan rarely took the ridiculous shots Kobe settles for.

Hes saying pickup Basketball. He's saying you wouldn't be mad if you got MJ or Kobe on your team. But for pickup Basketball you could say that about alot dudes...Bird,.McGrady, Iverson,Wade etc etc. Pickup Basketball isnt the NBA though.

 

[CP1708]

One of the components not mentioned is switching out Shaq for Pippen would be obviously completely different for Mike in that he would have a true viable low post player to play off of.

However, the flip side of that, on D, Mike would have had to defend harder than his days alongside Pippen. Mike would have to use his energy differently than he did in Chicago.

I think he could/would, thus Shaq getting more of the offensive workload.

In theory, of course.

 

[iamjusayn]

do you even watch kobe? when has he ever been known to play it safe. the main reason people dont like him is because he doesnt play it safe and takes tough shots

Rarely doesn't but if he plays his teacher then he will. Guarantee all those long stupid shots he normally takes, he would not chuck up against Mike in a one on one.

 

[darthska]

I have a a hard time seeing a healthy and motivated Shaq playing 2nd fiddle to anyone. Same with peak-Jordan obviously, so I guess I don't have an answer. It'd be as much of an equal partnership as there could be in my mind. Mike's PPG drop before Shaq's though, I agree there.

I have a hard time seeing Shaq play fiddle, but I have an even harder time seeing Jordan play second fiddle.

desire > size

For me. No, nobody better quote that and say that Muggsy Bogues is better than Lebron James because desire > size, dammit. I'm saying, when I'm looking at THAT Jordan and THAT Shaq, I can't imagine the drive of THAT Jordan playing second fiddle to THAT Shaq, even with his size and dominance.

I agree w/ quik; Shaq would never have reached his full potential.

 

[sea manup]

One of the components not mentioned is switching out Shaq for Pippen would be obviously completely different for Mike in that he would have a true viable low post player to play off of.

However, the flip side of that, on D, Mike would have had to defend harder than his days alongside Pippen. Mike would have to use his energy differently than he did in Chicago.

I think he could/would, thus Shaq getting more of the offensive workload.

In theory, of course.

i think the bulls would be better off with pippen then shaq, granted they would still win the 6 titles that they did but with shaq playing in the regular season there is no way that they win 72 games that one year or that shaq hands the team back to jordan after he comes back from playing baseball

 

[sea manup]

do you even watch kobe? when has he ever been known to play it safe. the main reason people dont like him is because he doesnt play it safe and takes tough shots

Rarely doesn't but if he plays his teacher then he will. Guarantee all those long stupid shots he normally takes, he would not chuck up against Mike in a one on one.

how are you sure of this?

 

[mister friendly]

Jordan played second fiddle at UNC. Jordan would pass in the clutch if it was the correct Basketball play. Jordan really wasn't that selfish. Jordan had to carry those teams on his back.

 

[quik1987]

Shaqs fg% would skyrocket to like 75% or sth though

His offensive reb would go down because more of mjs shots would go in

And i believe mj would yell at him and make his ft% higher and he wouldn't have to shoot as many

Hack a shaq wouldn't exist

Shaq wouldn't be fat