IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[JD617]

JD, while you're here, would you know where to find an end of clock shooting statistic? Not just end of game tho, like end of Q1, halftime, etc. Where would I even look for that? Last 10 seconds of a quarter dot come?

I'm not sure where to find end of quarter numbers. You can find shot clock numbers on 82games. Here's Kobe's page.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12LAL7.HTM

We will be presenting a number of different views showing the statistics for all teams at once. This article will focus on how teams have performed in the different shot clock segments for both offense and defense. We have elected to break the 24 seconds down into four categories:

• 0-10 seconds - "Quick" possessions coming from fast breaks, putbacks, turnovers and other events.
• 11-15 seconds - "Early" resolution to a possession.
• 16-20 seconds - "Structured" possession.
• 21+ seconds - "Late" possession activity, often rushing to beat the shot clock buzzer.

 

[al3xis]

So if I'm reading this right, LeBron attempts 22% of his shots when the shot clock is in 21 seconds or deeper. Kobe, 12%.

Valiant effort. And those 2-3 times a week he turns down a 60 footer..shame on him.

 

[CP1708]

Thank you man.

Edit, these are the "crunch time" numbers, I pulled from the wrong spot


Secs. Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
0-10 28% .540 73% 4% 0.8
11-15 26% .609 8% 0% 0.8
16-20 27% .396 11% 4% 0.5
21+ 19% .324 20% 0% 0.3


Doesn't give us the totals, but you see there CLEARLY. Those aren't shooting percentages, they are percentage of his shots which should = up to 100% of his shots.

It's almost even. 28% of his shots in the first 10 seconds of a shot clock, and 19% of his shots in the final 3 seconds of the clock. 9% difference, and this from a guy that is a volume shooter. Only 9% difference in a full 7 seconds less time. Bottom line, he shoots ALOT late in clocks, be it his fault, or the fault of others. Surely some of those shots are his fault.

Then again, it can be spun if he shoots early in the shot clock he shoots too damn much there too.

 

[CP1708]

So if I'm reading this right, LeBron attempts 22% of his shots when the shot clock is in 21 seconds or deeper. Kobe, 12%.

Valiant effort. And those 2-3 times a week he turns down a 60 footer..shame on him.

Uh, you read it wrong? Where you get 12%?

The link JD posted has him at 19, I don't know what Bron's is.

Edit, I looked, Bron is at 20%

 

[al3xis]

I keep seeing a different set of numbers, I don't know why.

 

[JD617]

So if I'm reading this right, LeBron attempts 22% of his shots when the shot clock is in 21 seconds or deeper. Kobe, 12%.

Valiant effort. And those 2-3 times a week he turns down a 60 footer..shame on him.

Uh, you read it wrong? Where you get 12%?

The link JD posted has him at 19, I don't know what Bron's is.

Edit, I looked, Bron is at 20%

Those are the crunch time numbers. Near the top of the page are the overall ones.

 

[CP1708]

So if I'm reading this right, LeBron attempts 22% of his shots when the shot clock is in 21 seconds or deeper. Kobe, 12%.


Valiant effort. And those 2-3 times a week he turns down a 60 footer..shame on him.

Uh, you read it wrong? Where you get 12%?


The link JD posted has him at 19, I don't know what Bron's is.


Edit, I looked, Bron is at 20%

Those are the crunch time numbers. Near the top of the page are the overall ones.

got it, thank you.

So he's at 12 this year, 14 last year, and 14 the year before.

So 20 shots per game, 12-14% of those late in clock, what is that? 2 shots per game? Something close to that? 2/20 is 10% right? Pretty soon we gon be bustin out E=mc2 type ****.

 

[goldmember]

At the end of the day. Kobe is still overrated.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

My biggest issue this the direction this thread has turned is Kobe is being praised for taking difficult shots when no matter how many times he makes them they are still poor shots and other all time all greats don't take those shots.

 

[denni5themenace]

My biggest issue this the direction this thread has turned is Kobe is being praised for taking difficult shots when no matter how many times he makes them they are still poor shots and other all time all greats don't take those shots.

where did anyone praise him?

where did anyone discredit all time greats not taking shots?

where?

you're bored of this thread now because no one is making WILD statements.

It's not what kobe fans think of kobe that makes him overrated to you, its what you think kobe fans think of kobe.

 

[CP1708]

My biggest issue this the direction this thread has turned is Kobe is being praised for taking difficult shots when no matter how many times he makes them they are still poor shots and other all time all greats don't take those shots.

I know right?

I want to make clear, by no means am I trying to say that simply because he takes and misses some wild end of Q or shot clock shots should he be absolved from the FG% question entirely.

Oh.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

My biggest issue this the direction this thread has turned is Kobe is being praised for taking difficult shots when no matter how many times he makes them they are still poor shots and other all time all greats don't take those shots.

where did anyone praise him?

where did anyone discredit all time greats not taking shots?

where?

you're bored of this thread now because no one is making WILD statements.

It's not what kobe fans think of kobe that makes him overrated to you, its what you think kobe fans think of kobe.

Samgoody is.

 

[5am6oody72]

My biggest issue this the direction this thread has turned is Kobe is being praised for taking difficult shots when no matter how many times he makes them they are still poor shots and other all time all greats don't take those shots.

It probably wasn't very clear from my post but I didn't mean to give him credit for that at all really. If you go in the archives in Lakers game threads you will see me hating on his shot selection even when they are falling early because he would usually start out hot and then cool off and shoot us out of the game.

I give him credit for not caring what % he's shooting and wanting to score at all costs, and I am saying that his FG belies how good of a shooter/scorer he is skillwise. BUT that is due in large part to his own stubbornly bad /overconfident shot selection so its not like its an extenuating circumstance.

However, if he didn't have that mentality/approach do you think he pulls off those clutch 3's against Toronto and other similar feats? Likely not.

 

[nako xl]

My biggest issue this the direction this thread has turned is Kobe is being praised for taking difficult shots when no matter how many times he makes them they are still poor shots and other all time all greats don't take those shots.

It probably wasn't very clear from my post but I didn't mean to give him credit for that at all really. If you go in the archives in Lakers game threads you will see me hating on his shot selection even when they are falling early because he would usually start out hot and then cool off and shoot us out of the game.

I give him credit for not caring what % he's shooting and wanting to score at all costs, and I am saying that his FG belies how good of a shooter/scorer he is skillwise. BUT that is due in large part to his own stubbornly bad /overconfident shot selection so its not like its an extenuating circumstance.

However, if he didn't have that mentality/approach do you think he pulls off those clutch 3's against Toronto and other similar feats? Likely not.

For all the people criticizing Kobe's shooting %, and gunner mentality, in the 2009-2010 season he shot 46% from the field (bad according to HPV's scale).  He also hit 6 game winners that season.  He led the nba in that stat by a wide margin that year.  He also lead the league in game winners attempted.  You can't criticize his percentage for shooting his team out of games then say when he wins those games that it's luck and they would have been better off without him.

 

[itsabaythang]

While shot selection is obviously a valid criticism of Kobe's game, I agree with CP that the raw FG% is not always the best indicator of how good a shooter the player is or even how efficiently they score.

Lets say when I go out I hit on all types of women, nickels and dimes. I strike out most of the time with the 9's and 10's but I still pull my fair share. Meanwhile my friend is cool with being a realist so he never approaches girls that are above a 7-8. He's probably gonna have a higher success rate than me, but that doesnt necessarily mean hes better with the ladies than I am, just that he picks and chooses his spots more carefully and doesnt wanna fail.I'm casting a wider net and aiming higher, and we end up pulling the same number of girls.

Get where your coming from but this analogy had me giggling alittle.

You get the same result whether you take a difficult shot ( tough fadaway with a guy in your face) or an easy shot (lay up or open j). Either one results in 2 points.

Pulling a dime vs pulling a 7-8 does not result in the same result. You might pull the same number of girls, but the result is not the same, you feel me.

 

[ill steelo]

FG% is kinda outdated when measuring efficiency. You gotta look at TS% which takes into account free throws & 3 pointers.

Shows you how a guy like Harden is only shooting 43% from the field but he's still having a positive impact cause he's knocking down his threes & free throws at a good rate while taking a bunch of them.

Harden's FG% was hovering around 43, which is pedestrian. His TS% has always been around 60 for the entire year, which is elite. He was at 66% TS with OKC. That's beyond elite. Which made me chuckle when dudes were saying in the offseason that OKC could easily replace him, but that's another discussion.

League average is around 50% TS. Kobe hovered around 56% at his peak, even had a 58% campaign in '06. Rock solid efficiency numbers. Definitely superior compared to a guy like Iverson, for example.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

FG% is kinda outdated when measuring efficiency. You gotta look at TS% which takes into account free throws & 3 pointers.

Shows you how a guy like Harden is only shooting 43% from the field but he's still having a positive impact cause he's knocking down his threes & free throws at a good rate while taking a bunch of them.

Harden's FG% was hovering around 43, which is pedestrian. His TS% has always been around 60 for the entire year, which is elite. He was at 66% TS with OKC. That's beyond elite. Which made me chuckle when dudes were saying in the offseason that OKC could easily replace him, but that's another discussion.

League average is around 50% TS. Kobe hovered around 56% at his peak, even had a 58% campaign in '06. Rock solid efficiency numbers. Definitely superior compared to a guy like Iverson, for example.

Most legitimate case presented for his fg%

 

[CP1708]

Yeah, that's a solid post. I need smarter dudes than me to come in and say stuff.

 

[darthdeezy]

The 12th man on the worst team back in '02 or somethin came off the bench, had one shot and was made it.
He was 1/1 for the season. 100%.
Therefore, this man >>>>>>>>> Kobe Bryant.

 

[iamjusayn]

MJ was the cornerstone of his franchise for 15 seasons.

Kobe didn't see the court for two years.  so 15 seasons.

how many years has kobe played hurt?  he played a full season with a cast on a finger on his shooting hand.

he's playing with a wrecked ankle right now.  he's played through every injury imaginable.

but let's count mike's injury year.

kobe would have been a starting 2guard for 2-3 more years than Jordan when it's all said and done.  this argument doesn't hold.

kareem takes 30 years to set his records.  "BEST CENTER EVERRRRRR!!!!!"

kobe takes 17 years.  "What's taking him so long? Ugh! Overrated!"

I factored in both their times off top and u still resort to using that as a reason, smh.

I guess MJ wore that knee brace early on for no reason, huh? Never had finger tendon issues either huh? Plse stop it. Bryant is still chasing and inefficient doing so. That's my point. I don't care if he breaks MJ's records if he is taking longer to do so.

We are discussing bryant n MJ not Kareem.

 

[sea manup]

The 12th man on the worst team back in '02 or somethin came off the bench, had one shot and was made it.
He was 1/1 for the season. 100%.
Therefore, this man >>>>>>>>> Kobe Bryant.

how did the guy not make the ASG?

 

[5am6oody72]

Get where your coming from but this analogy had me giggling alittle.

You get the same result whether you take a difficult shot ( tough fadaway with a guy in your face) or an easy shot (lay up or open j). Either one results in 2 points.

Pulling a dime vs pulling a 7-8 does not result in the same result. You might pull the same number of girls, but the result is not the same, you feel me.

Everybody looks the same in the dark; a nut is a nut but the dime just looks more impressive than the 7-8, just like a fadeaway 18 footer over a double team looks more impressive than an open layup.

 

[5am6oody72]

Double*.

 

[itsabaythang]

in the dark good ****

 

[quik1987]

^^ bro you sound like a D1 Kobe hater lmfao . Okay dude hasn't shot 50%+ percent . If thts such a terrible thing why is he 5th on the all time scoring list ... We might as well say 4th cuhz he's fasho passing up Wilt and maybe even Jordan if you wanna keep it one hunnet . Don't give me no lame excuse like "well he takes all those shots so he has to be so high on tht list" cuhz if you say tht them ima js hit you with a "wut?-_-" dude is clutch . These cats in the leauge can't preform in the clutch I mean literally running away from the ball. Kobe demands it . Everyone knows he's gonna take the shot yet still he drains it . You over there in your house googling all these stats (cuhz it's no way you named all this white from the top of your dome lol) but tell me how many of them have been the cornerstone of a team for their whole career , scored 81 points in a game ? 100something forty point games , 24 fifty point games , 5 sixty point games . You telling me he's overrated cuhz he ain't never shot 50% **** .

When things go perfect for the lakers people praise kobe . But when things go bad they hate him . His blessing and curse .

He also has the most MISSED SHOTS in nba HISTORY