IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[darthska]

XX HPDV III, I agree with everything you said, and it is stuff I have been telling my fellow Laker fans for years. I think you have made the mistake that many people make, which is seeing Lakers in my avatar and sig, and assuming I'm a Kobe fan.

sea manup, the way I read his reply was that he was talking about Kobe shooting an average to terrible shooting % over his career, as the last 2 games reflect. His post was about Kobe's career, and he used those 2 games as helpers to his overall point.

That is completely different than someone coming in and bumping the thread after a bad game and simply saying "See? Overrated", or someone coming in after a good game and saying "Overrated huh?" All that does is keep the thread bumped unnecessarily.

XX III, one contention I do have with your stance is that Kobe has definitely won a lot more than 5 - 7 games for us this year. On the second half of the season, he has focused on passing more than I have ever seen him do, and our playoff push possibility is largely hinged on that emphasis by him. Obviously, one would not know that unless they have watched the Lakers every game this season, and paid attention to him his entire career, but I can assure you, even as a huge critic of his, he has definitely won more than 5 - 7 games for us this year.

 

[clyde the glide]

how can u call yourself a laker fan and have so much salt towards the guy that is responsible for so much of your teams success?  its like u would have preferred a decade of no rings instead of 5

 

[xx hpdv iii]

how can u call yourself a laker fan and have so much salt towards the guy that is responsible for so much of your teams success?  its like u would have preferred a decade of no rings instead of 5

What did Ska say about Phil Jackson? I didn't catch it.

 

[sea manup]

XX HPDV III, I agree with everything you said, it and it is stuff I have been telling my fellow Laker fan for years. I think you have made the mistake that many people make, which is seeing Lakers in my avatar and sig, and assuming I'm a Kobe fan.

sea manup, the way I read his reply was that he was talking about Kobe shooting an average to terrible shooting % over his career, as the last 2 games reelect. his post was about Kobe's career, and he used those 2 games as helpers to his overall point.

That is completely different than someone coming in and bumping the thread after a bad game and simply saying "See? Overrated", or someone coming in after a good game and saying "Overrated huh?" All that does is keep the thread bumped unnecessarily.

XX III, one contention I do have with your stance is that Kobe has definitely won a lot more than 5 - 7 games for us this year. On the second half of the season, he has focused on passing more than I have ever seen him do, and our playoff push possibility is largely hinged on that emphasis by him. Obviously, one would not know that unless they have watched the Lakers every game this season, and paid attention to him his entire career, but I can assure you, even as a huge critic of his, he has definitely won more than 5 - 7 games for us this year.

yeah im not saying that he was only using those two games, just that his wording implied that he was which could throw some people off

 

[sea manup]

how can u call yourself a laker fan and have so much salt towards the guy that is responsible for so much of your teams success?  its like u would have preferred a decade of no rings instead of 5

he's critical of kobe but its not like he wants to see kobe fail or anything (like some people in this thread). he gives kobe props when props are due and would rather kobe play like a top 5 player than an averaged everyday nba 2 guard. whats important is the lakers winning games/championships 

 

[clyde the glide]

i dont see any laker fans taking phil jackson for granted tho.  just the guy who actually plays and scores points

 

[Jordan8]

What did Ska say about Phil Jackson? I didn't catch it.

 

[Jordan8]

how can u call yourself a laker fan and have so much salt towards the guy that is responsible for so much of your teams success?  its like u would have preferred a decade of no rings instead of 5

Most new school fans give Kobe too much credit. And Im sure OG Laker fans & purists watch Kobe and recognize he shoots the Lakers into more losses than wins during stretches

A lot of Laker fans are salty towards Shaq as well and he's responsible for more....ah never mind

 

[CP1708]

So, shooting %. That's what we want to use today. Ok, I can understand that. It's a valid point, you can certainly argue that 45% for 17 years is not stellar. You mentioned 47% as a barometer for being acceptable.

Might I first remind you, and everyone else, that as a guard, you shoot the majority of your shots from 17 feet out, with the occasional dunks, layups, put backs, lane forrays, etc. Whereas a Big shoots everything from 10 feet in, 15 feet if they are a more skilled big, ie a Dirk or a Gasol. Shaq certainly got his buckets from 7 feet in and closer. (the majority of them of course)

So, when you scale it, 45% from further out range vs 55 from within 5 feet is not all that different. The simple answer would be, hey, get the ball inside 5 feet and shoot there everytime. Cuz you know, the 5 defenders don't do anything to stop that of course, every shot in an NBA game is within 5 feet. Ever.

Fact is, shots must be taken from outside and you get what you can inside. Inside/out, surely everyone in here has heard of that.

So anyways, Kobe. 45% for almost 2 full decades now. Over the course of that career, he's taken some BAD shots. Horrible. Truly what in the hell are you doin shots. Those shots, suck. Hate them. All Laker fans do. But there's a balance to those. Literally, 100's of missed shots in Kobe's career, as well as a few makes too have come from one thing. Heaves.

Sasha Vujacic gets pinned, stops his dribble, can't find a shot, no one is open, throws it to Kobe, 29 feet from the hoop, 4 on the shot clock. Kobe misses. That's his fault?
Shaq, looks for a shot, getting banged, and fouled by 3 guys, can't get it, gives up, kicks out to Kobe, 23 feet away, 3 on the shot clock.

Repeat that, hundreds of times. Think Kobe cares? 2 seconds at the end of the quarter, Kobe has it 60 feet from the hoop, launch. Miss. So?

So while you look and see a statline such as 28 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, solid defense (in his prime moreso than the last 2-3 years) and then you see 9 for 21 and say "average game" because he was 9 for 21, yet 3 of those were end of quarter, end of shot clock misses and 1 was one of those Kobe what the **** was that shots. 4 missed shots, 1 his fault, 2-3 maybe his, maybe not his. You say bad game. I say 28/5/5 is his averages for the last 15 seasons, and only 2 others can match that, Mike, and LeBron.

But hey, 45%.


Your other point, bigs make him, they save him, he does nothing but miss shots. I know right? Cuz you know, when we make up things, and revise history as you all seem to do, you see that oh, what, Pau was 0-12 in his playoff career, and in his FIRST 2 months as a Laker, won 14 NBA playoff games. Cuz I dunno, the light came on for him I guess. Pau put on that Purple and Gold, and boy, he just liked it or something. HE, became the driving force of a team. Defenses keyed in on HIM, to stop the Lakers. Yeah, that's how I remember it too.

Shaq. (everyone should sit for this) Shaq came in 96, same as 18 year old Kobe. Shaq had Nick, Eddie, Fox, Horry, Elden Campbell, just a nice nice roster. All in their primes. Lakers didn't win ****. Punked in the playoffs by the Jazz multiple times. But then, Kobe grew up, his game grew, he grew into his skills. His ability started to improve greatly. And in 2000, they won, and then again, and again. Now, clearly, Shaq was a DOMINANT force. But in game 7 against a 60 win Blazer team that was shutting Shaq down, Kobe had one helluva game. He saved the Laker season.
In the Finals, Kobe gets hurt, misses game 3, they get BLOWN OUT. He comes back in game 4, hobbled, but playing. Shaq fouls out, in OT, on the road, Kobe saves the game, and quite possibly, the series/season.

You were saying, the bigs SAVE Kobe's ***? Like he's just there or something.


Back to your missed shots. I wonder. Kobe broke his right hand in 2000. Learned to shoot some with his left. He tore ligaments in his finger in 2008. Played anyways. Tore ligaments in his wrist 2 years ago. Played anyways. His shooting hand. Still plays, 38 minutes a night. 27-28 a night, with 5 boards, 5 dimes, couple steals, some crazy late game shots, etc. Leading his team. Faces the best defender of every team, every night. 45%. You call that, "average"

Yet, if I asked you to find me a player with PERFECT health, to play on the perimeter, get me close to 30 a night, 5/6 rebounds, 5/6 assists, play some defense at least (elite when younger, rover role when older) and do it for 100 games a season, EVERY year almost, for 15 years. You'd be expecting them to get you 47% and then THAT would make that player, so much better? Ok. But, that player doesn't exsist outside of Mike. (LeBron very well could be coming for that)


But hey, the entire basketball world, fans, media, coaches, players, current and former all think of Kobe as one of the best to ever live. But the select few of you on NT, you all see the truth. 11-26, bigs savin his ***.

Sure.

 

[CP1708]

In the interest of full disclosure, Kobe's entire 17 career he averages 9 makes per game, in 19.6 attempts. 9/18 = 50% He misses a shot and a half per game to get his .453% for his career.

A shot and a half per game.

But don't listen to me. Go with what your hate tells you.

 

[sea manup]

Most new school fans give Kobe too much credit. And Im sure OG Laker fans & purists watch Kobe and recognize he shoots the Lakers into more losses than wins during stretches

A lot of Laker fans are salty towards Shaq as well and he's responsible for more....ah never mind

so you're saying that OG lakers fans think that kobe has done more harm than good through out his career?

and you're implying that anyone who gives kobe "too much" credit is a new school fan/kobe fan boy?

is that what you're saying?

 

[denni5themenace]

In the interest of full disclosure, Kobe's entire 17 career he averages 9 makes per game, in 19.6 attempts. 9/18 = 50% He misses a shot and a half per game to get his .453% for his career.

A shot and a half per game.

But don't listen to me. Go with what your hate tells you.

you know, i thought about this a while ago, but never really wanted to bring it up. glad someone else shared the same thoughts.

the difference between a 50% shooting % and a 45-47% is approximately one shot per game at kobe's volume. i admit he does take his share of bad shots, but he also takes those end of a shot clock bail out shots (some you can blame him for stalling the offense and some you can't).

is it really THAT much of an issue, though? i feel like it really splitting hairs at this point.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

So the lesson to be learned from Kobe fans today is if you shoot enough fg % doesn't matter.......right.

 

[CP1708]

So the lesson to be learned from Kobe fans today is if you shoot enough fg % doesn't matter.......right.

You show me where it says that? Could you point it out to me?

 

[darthska]

CP, the way I read your reply, you've got 3 main points:

- Kobe's shooting

- bigs saved him?

- everyone else but a select few on NT give him props

I'm going to go with the last one first, because it's the easiest. Personally, I don't care what anyone else says... or EVERYONE else... or a select few, or some of my favorite people of all time. If MLK, Jr, Jackie Robinson, Mother Theresa, and Jesus H. Christ himself all told me they were huge Kobe fans, my opinion of him would be unchained. You bring up this 'Other people said so' point rather often, and it makes me wonder... why? Are you the type to change your opinion based on what someone else's opinion is? If you hate chocolate cake and Tarantino says "It's awesome!", do you change your opinion and become a huge choco cake fan? If not, then you can understand why I'm perplexed at you constantly bringing up "But other people say so," and if you do change your opinion based on others', well, I don't, and I'm sure most people don't. But that's neither here nor there.

Bigs saved him: I would contend that... BIGS HELPED HIM... and HE HELPED BIGS. Like you said, Pau was oh-fer in the playoffs. Comes to us, wins a chip. Before Pau and after Shaq, 'Kobe' missed the playoffs once. Pau comes to us, 'Kobe' grabs another chip. BIGS HELP HIM, and HE HELPS BIGS. I know that I know you understand this, but it's frustrating reading people (not you) say that KOBE grabbed us another. No, the guy who was the main guy of the team when we missed the playoffs is not the reason... THE reason, meaning there is only one reason and it is HIM... we won the next 2, or even the previous 3. Integral part? Absolutely. THEEEE reason? HAYL no. I'm... fairly sure we're in agreement on this one. It's just that you're a fan, and I'm not, but I'm pretty sure we both agree that he has had a mutually beneficial relationship w/ bigs: they benefited from him, and he has benefited from them. And I can understand that while it's frustrating for me to read folks say "Kobe gets us another one" like it's all him (which is false), it's frustrating for you as a fan to read "It was all Pau," which is also absurdly false.

And lastly, his shooting. This... has been... my NUMBER ONE... gripe on him... F.R.O.M. D.A.Y. O.N.E. You and I have gone rounds on this... for YEARS... and I don't think either of our stances will ever change.

What I hate about his game, you're ok with. That's all that is. You said yourself that he has taken some "Ummm... what?" shots all throughout his career. denni5 asked the question "Is that really that big of a deal to you guys?" To his fans, those shots are obviously not that big of a deal; to his critics, or at least me, yes, it's a big deal.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

So the lesson to be learned from Kobe fans today is if you shoot enough fg % doesn't matter.......right.

You show me where it says that? Could you point it out to me?

You are justifying his shooting percentage by saying its only one shot a game at his volume well the difference between his volume at 40% is only two shots and at 35% is only 3.

At what point is fg% statistically significant?

Because 5% is "only" one shot a game right

 

[denni5themenace]

like you want kobe fans to be objective, but yet all you see is black and white.

as another poster in this thread said:

It's not what kobe fans think of kobe that makes him overrated to you, its what you think kobe fans think of kobe.

the absolutes in this thread

 

[CP1708]

CP, the way I read your reply, you've got 3 main points:
- Kobe's shooting
- bigs saved him?
- everyone else but a select few on NT give him props

I'm going to go with the last one first, because it's the easiest. Personally, I don't care what anyone else says... or EVERYONE else... or a select few, or some of my favorite people of all time. If MLK, Jr, Jackie Robinson, Mother Theresa, and Jesus H. Christ himself all told me they were huge Kobe fans, my opinion of him would be unchained. You bring up this 'Other people said so' point rather often, and it makes me wonder... why? Are you the type to change your opinion based on what someone else's opinion is? If you hate chocolate cake and Tarantino says "It's awesome!", do you change your opinion and become a huge choco cake fan? If not, then you can understand why I'm perplexed at you constantly bringing up "But other people say so," and if you do change your opinion based on others', well, I don't, and I'm sure most people don't. But that's neither here nor there.

Bigs saved him: I would contend that... BIGS HELPED HIM... and HE HELPED BIGS. Like you said, Pau was oh-fer in the playoffs. Comes to us, wins a chip. Before Pau and after Shaq, 'Kobe' missed the playoffs once. Pau comes to us, 'Kobe' grabs another chip. BIGS HELP HIM, and HE HELPS BIGS. I know that I know you understand this, but it's frustrating reading people (not you) say that KOBE grabbed us another. No, the guy who was the main guy of the team when we missed the playoffs is not the reason... THE reason, meaning there is only one reason and it is HIM... we won the next 2, or even the previous 3. Integral part? Absolutely. THEEEE reason? HAYL no. I'm... fairly sure we're in agreement on this one. It's just that you're a fan, and I'm not, but I'm pretty sure we both agree that he has had a mutually beneficial relationship w/ bigs: they benefited from him, and he has benefited from them. And I can understand that while it's frustrating for me to read folks say "Kobe gets us another one" like it's all him (which is false), it's frustrating for you as a fan to read "It was all Pau," which is also absurdly false.

And lastly, his shooting. This... has been... my NUMBER ONE... gripe on him... F.R.O.M. D.A.Y. O.N.E. You and I have gone rounds on this... for YEARS... and I don't think either of our stances will ever change. What I hate about his game, you're ok with. That's all that is. You said yourself that he has taken some "Ummm... what?" shots all throughout his career. denni5 asked the question "Is that really that big of a deal to you guys?" To his fans, those shots are obviously not that big of a deal; to his critics, or at least me, yes, it's a big deal.

You know dang well I don't change my stance until there is absolute cause to do so. For instance, and Allen will back me on this if he ever comes in here again. I was never overly impressed with LeBron until last season's playoffs. I recognized he was great, but he had holes that were stopping him. First it was his defense, he fixed that, I said as much. Then it was jumper, he started to iron that out, now he's really solid, then it was post game, he fixed it. There ya go. Lebron is a damn stud. I didn't jump on his bandwagon in 05 or whenever, I wanted him to be as good as others said. When he was, in my opinion, then I ackowledged him, gave him props, and no longer do you see me say anything poorly against LeBron James. He did, what I asked for.

Me pointing out the absurdity of people on NT making claims like Kobe is Paul Pierce, or JR Smith, or whoever else when literally no one else in media, print, twitter, google, etc does that crap (although, funny story, I found a Spurs message board that claims Kawhi Leonard is better than Kobe, I wonder who could be behind that ) anyhoo, it just baffles me. I live in PORTLAND OREGON, people that DESPISE this man, this team, and everything we stand for. THEY don't even say stupid **** like that. And these guys once claimed Darius Miles was Dr freaking J!!!!!!!!!! They say stupid stuff EVERY, DAY. And they don't even try to bring hate like that.

Look at SneakerPro. I typed all that out, used commas, big words, fact after fact after fact about his numbers, his career averages for 15 and 17 years, everything. I used specific examples of games, and his 1,200 game history TOTAL. Everything. Look what he read.

So the lesson to be learned from Kobe fans today is if you shoot enough fg % doesn't matter.......right

THAT's what he took from what I said?????? Did I sound like some 3rd grader?

As the dude the page before said, pointing out TWO games, and then expanding the idea behind them, Kobe's history will show .453% for his career. As a starter, after his 2 teenage years off the bench, it's .456% Either way, just under 46% for a volume shooter. You Ska, as have I, have seen what, 1,000 Laker games the last 15 years? How many times Kobe get the ball with 2 on the shot clock? Hell, he shot one from 35 feet MONDAY NIGHT at the shot clock. It has happened tons of times, we've both seen it. Kobe don't care, he'll shoot it. Makes/misses, don't matter.

Few weeks back, he had that convo with Dwight, Dwight spoke on it, he was afraid of missing. He didn't want to fail. Kobe told him flat out, don't worry about missing, you have to overcome that. They will go in. The work will get you there. Believe in yourself. Dwight is a career 58% shooter or something like that. Afraid to miss? It's not easy. We all expect these guys to be robots, and make everything. It's why guys choke, or let pressure get to them. Kobe learned as a kid, airballs in Utah, **** happens. NOBODY on that team would step up to take the shots. The nobody kid would. But he learned. We all saw it. Mike couldn't get past the Pistons, but he learned. LeBron couldn't get over the hump, then he learned.

And yes, Kobe learned with Shaq/Pau. Mike learned with Scottie. LeBron learned with Wade. Magic learned with Kareem. Bird learned with McHale. Absolutely guys need help. But these Lakers in 2008 were built around Kobe. I've spoke on it plenty in here. Pau was the final piece, but that team was already top 3-4 in the West before Bynum got hurt. And they were getting better BEFORE Pau came and took up the void left by Drew's injury. Right after Pau got there, Kobe shredded his pinkie, kept playin. He wasn't going to let anything stop his attempt. Pau didn't help him either in 08, they lost. Drew and Ariza came back in 09, and they wouldn't be stopped. Team effort, no question. Just as Jeter gets credit for a 25 man Yankee roster winning a world series, Kobe got most of the credit for that win. Just as Flacco gets credit for the Ravens 53 man team winning. Kobe was the leader of the 12 man Laker roster. They get the blame, and the glory.

 

[sea manup]

cant wait for the "Ultimate Kobe" documentary to come out

made exclusively using footage from two regular season games vs golden state 

 

[jayfiend]

I really can't believe people are discrediting this dude like that.

When Shaq fouled out in them playoff games who stepped up? Derek fisher?

It shot the lakers out of a lot games? Ok I'll give y'all that. But what about the 5 championships? His shots didn't help with those? His 17 point 4th quarters did nothing to help that?

I tell you dudes like I tell my lil brothers. You don't see players like Kobe Bryant everyday you just don't.

You bring up Phil ok... How many Jordan got without Phil? Or Scottie?

How bout the fact the Shaq played with a top 10 SG his whole career? Do you discredit him for that?

It shouldn't matter how many shots he took as long as the important one went in.

And I say this about everybody not just Kobe.

An example of somebody shooting their team out of game would be what J.R smith does

So Kobe is just like him? Or has Kobe hit big shots his whole career?

Is he top 5 maybe not. But you dudes talking like he not top 25??? ***** .

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Man you dudes write too much

I can't read all this **** on my phone.

 

[gllahone84]

I rock with ska's point though 

 

[nako xl]

Something I'll bring up that I left off on because it wasn't relevant til now:

A discussion Stan Van Gundy had on the radio (interviewing Spoelstra during LBJ's ridiculous fg% streak, and Spo said essentially "Lebron's smart. He knows when to shoot and when not to shoot, that's why his fg% is so high) Stan pointed out:

Lebron NEVER shoots at the end of quarters.  Never chucks it up from half court. EVER.  Rarely takes contested shots in crowds, never shoots contested heaves at the end of shot clocks (he'll pass those up) and the reason is % wise Lebron not only knows he has maybe a 25% chance of making those shots, but also that they'll negatively affect his over fg%.

Players like Mario Chalmers ALWAYS take those shots and are looking for them because they don't care about their fg%.  They're overconfident gunners.

Van Gundy then pointed out that there's a thin line between being smart and being selfish.  Because while the chance of making the shot might be low, LBJ's the best player on the team and his reasons for not taking the shot arent necessarily to help his team, but rather to not be the guy clanking 2-3 buzzer beaters a game.  This also goes into Lebron's seeming hesitance for a lot of his career of taking the bad leaning jumper at the end of guys and a lot of the criticism he'd get for making the more efficient play by always passing or just not taking the shot.

Kobe ALWAYS takes that full court heave.  He ALWAYS takes the leaning contest shot clock beating shot because in his opinion he's the best player on his team and the one that has the best chance of making it.  He also foolishly thinks he'll make that shot EVERY time he takes it.  Players like Lebron know it's not worth the 2 missed shot hit on their %.

This kind of goes into how players like Rondo who get praised for their assist numbers are on the low also selfish assist guys.  Iverson was the same way.  When they realize they're close to a double/double or triple/double they refuse to make the play that may be the best option for their team at the time in order to get that stat.  be it pulling up on a fast break and waiting for someone to pass to, passing up a good look at the basket to try to squeeze out an assist from the play, it looks great on the stat sheet but if you're being honest with yourself, it's the selfish play.  it's passing up the good basketball play/the easy basketball play/ the smart basketball play to boost stats.

where is the line drawn between selfishness for always gunning and just a disregard for what your final fg% on the box score is because you honestly think you're helping the team.

i realize this leaves open the counter argument "but you're not helping the team" but if fg% is your main point for Kobe's selfishness/averageness/not being in the top 25 (

) and you say "well he's making 9/19 but those 9 shots were bad shots," don't you also have to look and acknowledge exactly what kind of shots the 10 misses are coming from?

 

[essential1]

how can u call yourself a laker fan and have so much salt towards the guy that is responsible for so much of your teams success?  its like u would have preferred a decade of no rings instead of 5

Most new school fans give Kobe too much credit. And Im sure OG Laker fans & purists watch Kobe and recognize he shoots the Lakers into more losses than wins during stretches

Absolutely not


Does it happen yes (It happens to every player who is the number 1 option of an offense)


But it's not even remotely close the amount of Kobe willing wins as opposed to losses.

 

[xx hpdv iii]

you know, i thought about this a while ago, but never really wanted to bring it up. glad someone else shared the same thoughts.

the difference between a 50% shooting % and a 45-47% is approximately one shot per game at kobe's volume. i admit he does take his share of bad shots, but he also takes those end of a shot clock bail out shots (some you can blame him for stalling the offense and some you can't).

is it really THAT much of an issue, though? i feel like it really splitting hairs at this point.

This is another reason we can't stand Bean Bryant fans.

I mean, seriously... what the hell did you say? You try to skew the stats into some nonsense about "well he's only one shot short of 50%."

Cut the crap. 45% is 45%. It's not "one make away from 50%"

If a player shoots 20 times per game for their career, there are only 4 possibilities (aside from rare outliers).

That player is going to make either 8, 9, 10, or 11 shots. The range of career shooting % for probably 85% of NBA players falls between 40-55%.

Stop trying to skew the stats into some BS like "well he makes 9, that's only one short of 10."

NO.

There is 4 possibilities... he's on level 2; stop trying to increase his shooting ability by 25% (level 3). 25% is A LOT.

This is why I can't take you guys seriously. It's just nonsense after nonsense.

And then the other guy said something along the lines that Kobe is a perimeter player so that should give him a slight excuse for not having ever shot 47% in a season. Have you ever looked at the shooting numbers of other wings?

These guys are just off the top of my head.

Seasons at 47%+/50%+:

Melo: 3/0

Pierce: 3/0

Allen: 4/0

Peja: 4/0

Jordan: 10/6 (including FIVE straight seasons over 50%)

LeBron: 9/4 (currently has FOUR straight seasons over 50%)

Drexler: 8/2

Wade: 8/2

Monta: 2/1 (I didn't know until now that he shot 53% one season)

Nash: 13/7

Reggie: 9/4

Kobe Bryant: 0/0

This is not even including guys like Stephen Curry and Derrick Rose who have done it twice already and have played only 1/4th the number of seasons as Bryant.

I could keep listing names. I'll just say that the only guys I can name who are 0/0 like Kobe are T-Mac and Iverson, but those guys get a bad reputation as "selfish players, didn't make their team better" because they didn't have Shaq and Phil.

The sad part is that he's always played with 7-footers that demand double teams (even triple), and that should raise the bar for him to where he SHOULD have shot 50% for his career.

Even sadder is that he played more seasons than almost all of these guys.