IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

If you're not providing any meaningful discussion based on the thread's title, then don't post. It doesn't matter who you consider to be a troll or why you think the thread is open.

If you honestly think the thread is solely comprised of a bunch of Kobe fans and a bunch of trolling Kobe critics, or if you think the thread is solely comprised of a bunch of Kobe critics and a bunch of trolling Kobe fans, you're too emotionally invested in the topic, and maybe you shouldn't post. Because the bottom line is that there are some good points made on a number of different topics in here, and there are a bunch of you emotional trolls, stans AND critics.
 
^ There are VERY FEW people who HONESTLY AND TRULY list Kobe above Jordan, man.

it's like if there are 100 different basketball opinions, 48 people thinking that Kobe is top 5, 48 others thinking he's out of the top 5 and that putting him in the top 5 is overrating him, and 4 people think Kobe is above Jordan... and you exhaust all kinds of energy going at those 4, completely oblivious to the fact that no one is taking that mess seriously anyways. :lol:

Chill.
 
^ Also worth noting: I have banned people from the forum in the past that clearly had an anti-_______ agenda. It brings down the overall quality of the forum. Point blank, bottom line, period. If a person's main interest is simply to go around and smear mud in the face of Kobe or LeBron or Scalabrine, the forum suffers overall for it, and we would be better off without that person.

And just a reminder, this is coming from one of Kobe's biggest critics, so miss me with that "Laker fan defending Kobe" talk before you even think it.
 
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Bob Ryan said on the Bill Simmons podcast today that Kobe is better than Magic because he had a better overall game and Magic could never shoot or score like Kobe/Lebron/Larry.  He also said at times during his peak Kobe showed that he could take over every facet of the game the same way that Lebron could and that there's definitely an argument to be had over whether peak Kobe was as good as Lebron now.

He also said Karl Malone is the most overrated player in NBA history.
 
Nako XL said:
Bob Ryan said on the Bill Simmons podcast today that Kobe is better than Magic because he had a better overall game and Magic could never shoot or score like Kobe/Lebron/Larry.  He also said at times during his peak Kobe showed that he could take over every facet of the game the same way that Lebron could and that there's definitely an argument to be had over whether peak Kobe was as good as Lebron now.

He also said Karl Malone is the most overrated player in NBA history.
Click to expand...
roll.gif
 
Posting about a single game, or a few games, is not with this thread is about. Kobe fans bumping this thread after a good game is just as shortsighted as Kobe haters bumping the thread after a bad game. His entire career is overrated because of 1 game, or a few consecutive games? Foolish, and there's no reason for you to post about it. When Kobe stans use 1 spectacular game or a few great games and try to hail him as the almighty, you hate it... but you do the same thing in opposite direction? Look at you.

If all a poster does... or a large majority of what they do.. is slam a particular player, the forum is better off without them.

Do you know how much I hate Kobe? No, you don't, because I post about all kinds of other things; the New Jordans, old Jordans, Quentin Tarantino, how much I hate the Yankees, all kinds of stuff... and my antipathy for Kobe. :lol:

"Ok, what if like 8 out of 10 posts from me are anti-Kobe, and I have a couple posts that have nothing to do Kobe?"

Then you're still incredibly annoying, you obviously don't get it, and we would be better off without you.

Jesus, it feels like I'm teaching a Social Conversation Skills class or something.
 
I feel as though I'm the yin to the Kobe stans yang though.

If they were allowed to stay, and I had to go, there would be an imbalace, or bias no?

I'll tone it down until the playoffs
 
the thing is, i feel like all of the kobe stans/anti-kobe trolls should just get ignored.  the only people who address the foolishness each side says are you and sneakerpro when youre seemingly bored and stans confronting trolls.  and it just feeds them more.

aside from that the discussion could be pretty good when the cheap "look at how he played last night!" tactics from both sides are avoided.

trolls gonna troll, stans gonna stan, doesn't mean we have to.
We really should discuss whether Jordan is overrated, though.
 
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Kobe is clearly a better shooter that Magic ever was or attempted to be. Magic was a better shot creator for himself and others than Kobe.

Kobe as dominant as Lebron.... Child Please

Kobe has NEVER had a season like Lebron is having now.

Theres a reason kobe is still throwing up 30 while his team is losing...he's no different than a young gunner with a green light on a mediocre team....he'll give u points but you need a triangle system to actually win with him

Because as he put it he needs somebody to "yell at him" when their open
 
cartune said:
Kobe is clearly a better shooter that Magic ever was or attempted to be. Magic was a better shot creator for himself and others than Kobe.

Kobe as dominant as Lebron.... Child Please

Kobe has NEVER had a season like Lebron is having now.

Theres a reason kobe is still throwing up 30 while his team is losing...he's no different than a young gunner with a green light on a mediocre team....he'll give u points but you need a triangle system to actually win with him

Because as he put it he needs somebody to "yell at him" when their open
Click to expand...

That last quote speaks volumes and I like how most try to ignore that comment.

Pro hoopers playing with a guy like that has to be annoying especially when they don't make the playoffs or get ousted immediately. Having to essentially slap someone mid play just to get them to pass and notice them. Smh. That's horrible. It says exactly the type of guy bryant is n Jamison is trying to play if off like its cool. That spoiled AAU player swag, huh?

Bryant will end his career how MJ began his. If you watched both of their careers in totality then you will get this. Stop comparing him to MJ! It ain't happening and if you do get the urge to compare please compare 17/18 seasons to basically 12/13 seasons. Very inefficient. Everything bryant is chasing, MJ did in like 12 seasons (broken foot/short season comeback).

"MJ is overrated" smh but someone as good as bryant has copied n is chasing the man's whole career stats n personna though right? Lol yeah that's "overrated"...
 
DarthSka said:
Posting about a single game, or a few games, is not with this thread is about. Kobe fans bumping this thread after a good game is just as shortsighted as Kobe haters bumping the thread after a bad game. His entire career is overrated because of 1 game, or a few consecutive games? Foolish, and there's no reason for you to post about it. When Kobe stans use 1 spectacular game or a few great games and try to hail him as the almighty, you hate it... but you do the same thing in opposite direction? Look at you.
 
Click to expand...
Well the reality of that situation is that Kobe Bryant has had A LOT, and I mean A LOT, more bad games than good games. That's what people, particularly Kobe fans, completely overlook.

It's not just one game here and there that he plays/shoots bad. It's A LOT.

Ska... since you're rational and watch most of the games, ask yourself these two questions:

How many games has Kobe lost the Lakers this year?

How many games has Kobe won the Lakers this year?

He has probably lost them 15-20 and won them maybe 5-7.

And I'm not including games vs. Toronto and New Orleans where people think "KOBE SAVED THE LAKERS! FIVE RINGS!!" because he simply did not help them win those games... he basically did his best to lose those games for L.A.

Kobe Bryant has made a career of consistently scoring a high number of points by means of an extremely high number of shots. The reason people don't realize this is because they have a terrible memory, a terrible sense of elementary math and very little basketball IQ.

Yes, you can say that people who can't tolerate his entire livelihood are handpicking his worst games.

Yes, you can say that people who think he's top 25 all-time are handpicking his very rare great games.

But at the end of the day, that's why there are stats to reflect on what people can't remember.

A GREAT shooting game could be considered 55%+.

A GOOD shooting game could be considered 50%.

AN AVERAGE shooting game could be considered 45%.

A BAD shooting game could be considered 40%.

A TERRIBLE shooting game could be considered 35%.

The fact that he has NEVER, in 17 seasons, shot 47% in a season tells us that he simply isn't good at putting the ball in the bucket. He's slightly above average rarely, average a lot, and below average often.

If you think that people simply point out his bad games and others simply point out his good games... then where does the truth lie? It lies in the numbers.

The mean of his career shooting % is 45%. I wish somebody would compile a median and mode so that we can ignore your theory that people just emphasize his bad/good games.

It doesn't take a genius to understand that if this clown's GOOD  or GREAT (50-55%) shooting games outnumbered his BAD, TERRIBLE or AVERAGE shooting games, he would have finished a season at 47% at least one time. And the sad part is that 47% isn't even that good, nor is accomplishing that feat only once anything to brag about (had he ever done it).

Dude has been shooting his team out of games for a decade and a half but it goes under the radar because he's always had the best 7-footers to clean up his bricks, one of the GOAT coaches to hide his average-ness, and a few injuries here and there (Yao, KG, Perk) to helped him obtain rings.

Take the last 2 games vs. Golden State as a reflection of his career:

Game 1: 16/41 shooting. 34 points.

-You have a BAD shooting game that gets completely overlooked because "OMGosh! Kobe with 34!"

-You have a game where he makes a few shots at the end of regulation and also in overtime and he makes that stupid face and clueless people think "OMGosh! Kobe-God CLUTCH!!" and give him all the credit for the win, even though other teammates had a better game.

-Realistically, the only reason the game was even close was because  Kobe Bryant neglects his teammates in an attempt to satisfy the personal attention he so fiercely craves.

Game 2 (last night): 11/27 shooting, 36 points.

-You have another BAD shooting game, but it turns into "OMGosh! Kobe with 36 and no help! Fire the coach!!"

-You have a game where his stats are padded due to phantom fouls leading to free throws.

-You have a game where people continue their pathetic stance of "I feel sooooo bad for Kobe! Can't believe he has to go out like this. SMH!"

-Realistically, he once again shot them out of the game on offense by wanting to win the game under his terms, and his terms only; he also gave the Warriors at least 12-15 points on the other side with his pathetic, non-existent defense. Realistically... feel bad for him? For what? How can you feel bad for a spoiled brat who has had everything handed to him on a platinum platter?
 
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XX HPDV III said:
Well the reality of that situation is that Kobe Bryant has had A LOT, and I mean A LOT, more bad games than good games. That's what people, particularly Kobe fans, completely overlook.


It's not just one game here and there that he plays/shoots bad. It's A LOT.

Ska... since you're rational and watch most of the games, ask yourself these two questions:

How many games has Kobe lost the Lakers this year?

How many games has Kobe won the Lakers this year?


He has probably lost them 15-20 and won them maybe 5-7.


And I'm not including games vs. Toronto and New Orleans where people think "KOBE SAVED THE LAKERS! FIVE RINGS!!" because he simply did not help them win those games... he basically did his best to lose those games for L.A.



Kobe Bryant has made a career of consistently scoring a high number of points by means of an extremely high number of shots. The reason people don't realize this is because they have a terrible memory, a terrible sense of elementary math and very little basketball IQ.



Yes, you can say that people who can't tolerate his entire livelihood are handpicking his worst games.
Yes, you can say that people who think he's top 25 all-time are handpicking his very rare great games.

But at the end of the day, that's why there are stats to reflect on what people can't remember.

A GREAT shooting game could be considered 55%+.
A GOOD shooting game could be considered 50%.
AN AVERAGE shooting game could be considered 45%.
A BAD shooting game could be considered 40%.
A TERRIBLE shooting game could be considered 35%.

The fact that he has NEVER, in 17 seasons, shot 47% in a season tells us that he simply isn't good at putting the ball in the bucket. He's slightly above average rarely, average a lot, and below average often.

If you think that people simply point out his bad games and others simply point out his good games... then where does the truth lie? It lies in the numbers.

The mean of his career shooting % is 45%. I wish somebody would compile a median and mode so that we can ignore your theory that people just emphasize his bad/good games.



It doesn't take a genius to understand that if this clown's GOOD  or GREAT (50-55%) shooting games outnumbered his BAD, TERRIBLE or AVERAGE shooting games, he would have finished a season at 47% at least one time. And the sad part is that 47% isn't even that good, nor is accomplishing that feat only once anything to brag about (had he ever done it).



Dude has been shooting his team out of games for a decade and a half but it goes under the radar because he's always had the best 7-footers to clean up his bricks, one of the GOAT coaches to hide his average-ness, and a few injuries here and there (Yao, KG, Perk) to helped him obtain rings.


Take the last 2 games vs. Golden State as a reflection of his career:


Game 1: 16/41 shooting. 34 points.

-You have a BAD shooting game that gets completely overlooked because "OMGosh! Kobe with 34!"
-You have a game where he makes a few shots at the end of regulation and also in overtime and he makes that stupid face and clueless people think "OMGosh! Kobe-God CLUTCH!!" and give him all the credit for the win, even though other teammates had a better game.
-Realistically, the only reason the game was even close was because  Kobe Bryant neglects his teammates in an attempt to satisfy the personal attention he so fiercely craves.

Game 2 (last night): 11/27 shooting, 36 points.

-You have another BAD shooting game, but it turns into "OMGosh! Kobe with 36 and no help! Fire the coach!!"
-You have a game where his stats are padded due to phantom fouls leading to free throws.
-You have a game where people continue their pathetic stance of "I feel sooooo bad for Kobe! Can't believe he has to go out like this. SMH!"
-Realistically, he once again shot them out of the game on offense by wanting to win the game under his terms, and his terms only; he also gave the Warriors at least 12-15 points on the other side with his pathetic, non-existent defense. Realistically... feel bad for him? For what? How can you feel bad for a spoiled brat who has had everything handed to him on a platinum platter?
Click to expand...

So much truth written here. When do you see him retiring? I honestly think he will play 19/20 seasons.
 
XX HPDV III said:
Well the reality of that situation is that Kobe Bryant has had A LOT, and I mean A LOT, more bad games than good games. That's what people, particularly Kobe fans, completely overlook.

It's not just one game here and there that he plays/shoots bad. It's A LOT.

Ska... since you're rational and watch most of the games, ask yourself these two questions:

How many games has Kobe lost the Lakers this year?

How many games has Kobe won the Lakers this year?

He has probably lost them 15-20 and won them maybe 5-7.

And I'm not including games vs. Toronto and New Orleans where people think "KOBE SAVED THE LAKERS! FIVE RINGS!!" because he simply did not help them win those games... he basically did his best to lose those games for L.A.

Kobe Bryant has made a career of consistently scoring a high number of points by means of an extremely high number of shots. The reason people don't realize this is because they have a terrible memory, a terrible sense of elementary math and very little basketball IQ.

Yes, you can say that people who can't tolerate his entire livelihood are handpicking his worst games.

Yes, you can say that people who think he's top 25 all-time are handpicking his very rare great games.

But at the end of the day, that's why there are stats to reflect on what people can't remember.

A GREAT shooting game could be considered 55%+.

A GOOD shooting game could be considered 50%.

AN AVERAGE shooting game could be considered 45%.

A BAD shooting game could be considered 40%.

A TERRIBLE shooting game could be considered 35%.

The fact that he has NEVER, in 17 seasons, shot 47% in a season tells us that he simply isn't good at putting the ball in the bucket. He's slightly above average rarely, average a lot, and below average often.

If you think that people simply point out his bad games and others simply point out his good games... then where does the truth lie? It lies in the numbers.

The mean of his career shooting % is 45%. I wish somebody would compile a median and mode so that we can ignore your theory that people just emphasize his bad/good games.

It doesn't take a genius to understand that if this clown's GOOD  or GREAT (50-55%) shooting games outnumbered his BAD, TERRIBLE or AVERAGE shooting games, he would have finished a season at 47% at least one time. And the sad part is that 47% isn't even that good, nor is accomplishing that feat only once anything to brag about (had he ever done it).

Dude has been shooting his team out of games for a decade and a half but it goes under the radar because he's always had the best 7-footers to clean up his bricks, one of the GOAT coaches to hide his average-ness, and a few injuries here and there (Yao, KG, Perk) to helped him obtain rings.

Take the last 2 games vs. Golden State as a reflection of his career:

Game 1: 16/41 shooting. 34 points.

-You have a BAD shooting game that gets completely overlooked because "OMGosh! Kobe with 34!"

-You have a game where he makes a few shots at the end of regulation and also in overtime and he makes that stupid face and clueless people think "OMGosh! Kobe-God CLUTCH!!" and give him all the credit for the win, even though other teammates had a better game.

-Realistically, the only reason the game was even close was because  Kobe Bryant neglects his teammates in an attempt to satisfy the personal attention he so fiercely craves.

Game 2 (last night): 11/27 shooting, 36 points.

-You have another BAD shooting game, but it turns into "OMGosh! Kobe with 36 and no help! Fire the coach!!"

-You have a game where his stats are padded due to phantom fouls leading to free throws.

-You have a game where people continue their pathetic stance of "I feel sooooo bad for Kobe! Can't believe he has to go out like this. SMH!"

-Realistically, he once again shot them out of the game on offense by wanting to win the game under his terms, and his terms only; he also gave the Warriors at least 12-15 points on the other side with his pathetic, non-existent defense. Realistically... feel bad for him? For what? How can you feel bad for a spoiled brat who has had everything handed to him on a platinum platter?
Click to expand...
wait so in response to ska telling people not to post about single games to define the mans career you use two bad shooting games as a reflection of his entire career?
 
sea manup said:
wait so in response to ska telling people not to post about single games to define the mans career you use two bad shooting games as a reflection of his entire career?
Click to expand...
Nope, not at all.

The problem you have is that, just like Kobe Bryant's career, you're being selective about what you wanted to acknowledge in my response and what you didn't want to acknowledge. Let's just label the term "selective acknowledgement."

Just like when Kobe Bryant plays 10 games and only has ONE good game in that span and his fans want to ignore 90% of those games and selectively acknowledge/remember the other 10%... that's what you just did with my wall of text.

If anybody wants to post his shooting percentages for each individual game he's ever played, everything will be in plain view.

Also, I picked those two games for a reason. It wasn't just to show that he's great at missing shots... it was to show that, whether the Lakers win or lose, he gets credited as either "the reason they won" or "only Kobe showed up." When the reality of that matter is that, throughout Kobe Bryant's career, his teammates have constantly had to play 4 on 6 in order to win games... and those 4 (along with the coach) were talented enough to overcome the lopsided 4 on 6 matchup. I could take it a step further and say that sometimes those talented teammates actually were playing 7 on 6 with the help of 3 officials, but I'll leave that alone.
 
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XX HPDV III said:
Nope, not at all.

The problem you have is that, just like Kobe Bryant's career, you're being selective about what you wanted to acknowledge in my response and what you didn't want to acknowledge. Let's just label the term "selective acknowledgement."

Just like when Kobe Bryant plays 10 games and only has ONE good game in that span and his fans want to ignore 90% of those games and selectively acknowledge/remember the other 10%... that's what you just did with my wall of text.

If anybody wants to post his shooting percentages for each individual game he's ever played, everything will be in plain view.

Also, I picked those two games for a reason. It wasn't just to show that he's great at missing shots... it was to show that, whether the Lakers win or lose, he gets credited as either "the reason they won" or "only Kobe showed up." When the reality of that matter is that, throughout Kobe Bryant's career, his teammates have constantly had to play 4 on 6 in order to win games... and those 4 (along with the coach) were talented enough to overcome the lopsided 4 on 6 matchup. I could take it a step further and say that sometimes those talented teammates actually were playing 7 on 6 with the help of 3 officials, but I'll leave that alone.
Click to expand...
no, im not saying anything you said was wrong (stats wise). im saying that that part of your reply was EXACTLY what ska was telling people not to do, and since you said it in response to one of his posts it just seems like you didnt even bother reading the OP. just helping you out here. ill leave it to others to actually argue your basketball points
 
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