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Israel launches massive strike on Hamas tunnel network...

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Mulls truce?

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Widening range, rockets hit kindergarten...

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Arabs having a Tribal Mentality in 2008 is a problem.
Tribalism? Look to the Israelis for immense tribalism. How about the Sephardim? You have about six different groups of Jews (even some non-Jews,or Russians that were brought to Israel to form a "Jewish" majority) who have separate everything, from newspapers to T.V. stations, and barely havecontact with one another, and look out for only their group.

Why do people have to become so disrespectful when trying to argue their points?

Again, for the record, I am not Arab, I just think its ludicrous to only look at tribalism in an Arab sense, and not an Israeli sense.
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lets use common sense guys. almost 400 dead in gaza, how many died in Israel? 3 maybe 4? lets look at the size of gaza and the size of israel and who backseach of them. Israel is fully backed by usa and gaza has who? Hamas? ill let yall make your own judgment on this one
 
Originally Posted by Praise The X I

San Fransisco streets are basically SHUT down for the protest right now. FREE PALESTINE!
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san francisco is a waste of perfectly good oxygen.
 
Originally Posted by ReliantJ

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

^ Thats pretty awesome.

Never realized that this had so much support in America.
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San Franciscans would support the right to adopt pet ants.
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Originally Posted by mr delorean

Originally Posted by Praise The X I

San Fransisco streets are basically SHUT down for the protest right now. FREE PALESTINE!
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san francisco is a waste of perfectly good oxygen.
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laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by CallHimAR


Arabs having a Tribal Mentality in 2008 is a problem.
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Tribalism? Look to the Israelis for immense tribalism. How about the Sephardim? You have about six different groups of Jews (even some non-Jews, or Russians that were brought to Israel to form a "Jewish" majority) who have separate everything, from newspapers to T.V. stations, and barely have contact with one another, and look out for only their group.

Why do people have to become so disrespectful when trying to argue their points?

Again, for the record, I am not Arab, I just think its ludicrous to only look at tribalism in an Arab sense, and not an Israeli sense.






Have you ever been to Astoria, Queens? Huge Arab population. Walk down the street everything is in Arabic.

I live in Miami and everything is Spanish and even the newspapers are in Spanish, most of the local channels are in Spanish. What's you point?

All Sephardic Jews are Jews who were born in Europe, they aren't a tribe. Just like Italian-American or Polish-Ameican.

who occupied this land before palestinians?

"Palestinians" never occupied the land.

But if you are reffering before the British Mandate then it was the Ottoman Empire and they were Turkish.



Fede, seriously what you say is absolutely ludicrious. I have argued and seen your kind way too many before. You are a blatantly prejudice against Palestinians since you see them as democralized, senseless savages less than human beings.

I can already tell by your questions you are one of those that thinks Palestinians do not truly exist. You were brainwashed with this stream line of thinking that is used in order to erase Palestinians and their identity.

Keep on hating.

Palestinians are a reality and are recognized under international law and will get their self-determination and independent state. It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, but after all the tears, bloodshed, and when they finally attain their basic human right of gaining the ultimate freedom, peace can finally be restored.


And AGAIN, you still haven't answered any of the questions.

Show where is states specifically where the Arabs have the RIGHT to a STATE. Every person on the planet has right to FREEDOM, but show me where it says STATE.

Because you cant associate FREEDOM = having your own STATE. If that was the case there would be 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 different states onthis planet.


Calling me a bigot? You cant even tell me the "Palestinians" Identity, you don't even know.
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I too would like to see the Palestinians have their own state. Americans in general should stop demonizing arabs and labeling them as terrorists and subhumans. They are people just like us with families and with causes. Unfortunately they are living in extreme poverty and under extreme opression due to Isreal.I wish America cut ties with Isreal but that would be like wishing that it snowed ice cream--it will never happen. Isreal is too much of a liability. Why doesIsreal continue to solve problems with bombs instead of diplomacy? These Palestinians are not savages, they are oppressed, impoverished, and enraged.

I have no idea why America as a Christian nation supports Isreal so much when Jews reject Jesus Christ. At least Muslims acknowledge him as a prophet of God.Christians and Muslims have more in common than Jews and Christians. It's unfortunate that at this is really a holy war. NO ONE is willing to die for theirbeliefs like the muslims. The Jews can bomb all they want but they will never win.
 
Originally Posted by MALCOLM X

I too would like to see the Palestinians have their own state. Americans in general should stop demonizing arabs and labeling them as terrorists and sub humans. They are people just like us with families and with causes. Unfortunately they are living in extreme poverty and under extreme opression due to Isreal. I wish America cut ties with Isreal but that would be like wishing that it snowed ice cream--it will never happen. Isreal is too much of a liability. Why does Isreal continue to solve problems with bombs instead of diplomacy? These Palestinians are not savages, they are oppressed, impoverished, and enraged.

I have no idea why America as a Christian nation supports Isreal so much when Jews reject Jesus Christ. At least Muslims acknowledge him as a prophet of God. Christians and Muslims have more in common than Jews and Christians. It's unfortunate that at this is really a holy war. NO ONE is willing to die for their beliefs like the muslims. The Jews can bomb all they want but they will never win.
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Correction America is a Judeo-Christian country
 
The US needs to stop supporting Israel. Its sad that the US considers someone a terrorist only if they're muslim (in most cases). Israelis are terrorists,but they're considered freedom fighters
smh.gif
Religious countries FTL. Its all the same @#$%. No matter what side you're on, people get killed overtrivial reasons.
 
Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by CallHimAR


Arabs having a Tribal Mentality in 2008 is a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Tribalism? Look to the Israelis for immense tribalism. How about the Sephardim? You have about six different groups of Jews (even some non-Jews, or Russians that were brought to Israel to form a "Jewish" majority) who have separate everything, from newspapers to T.V. stations, and barely have contact with one another, and look out for only their group.

Why do people have to become so disrespectful when trying to argue their points?

Again, for the record, I am not Arab, I just think its ludicrous to only look at tribalism in an Arab sense, and not an Israeli sense.
Click to expand...



Have you ever been to Astoria, Queens? Huge Arab population. Walk down the street everything is in Arabic.

I live in Miami and everything is Spanish and even the newspapers are in Spanish, most of the local channels are in Spanish. What's you point?

All Sephardic Jews are Jews who were born in Europe, they aren't a tribe. Just like Italian-American or Polish-Ameican.

who occupied this land before palestinians?

"Palestinians" never occupied the land.

But if you are reffering before the British Mandate then it was the Ottoman Empire and they were Turkish.



Fede, seriously what you say is absolutely ludicrious. I have argued and seen your kind way too many before. You are a blatantly prejudice against Palestinians since you see them as democralized, senseless savages less than human beings.

I can already tell by your questions you are one of those that thinks Palestinians do not truly exist. You were brainwashed with this stream line of thinking that is used in order to erase Palestinians and their identity.

Keep on hating.

Palestinians are a reality and are recognized under international law and will get their self-determination and independent state. It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, but after all the tears, bloodshed, and when they finally attain their basic human right of gaining the ultimate freedom, peace can finally be restored.


And AGAIN, you still haven't answered any of the questions.

Show where is states specifically where the Arabs have the RIGHT to a STATE. Every person on the planet has right to FREEDOM, but show me where it says STATE.

Because you cant associate FREEDOM = having your own STATE. If that was the case there would be 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 different states on this planet.


Calling me a bigot? You cant even tell me the "Palestinians" Identity, you don't even know.







Right, but what you fail to realize is that those groups have gone completely tribal. They are only looking out for their own, and not the state of Israeli asa whole. They just want a piece for themselves.

You obviously don't understand that if there were to be a one state solution, with a democratic majority, then the Palestinian people in essence would havecontrol of the state. Not the Zionists. That is why you have the system of apartheid that is in practice today.

You've obviously had these beliefs drilled into your head for a long time and theres no changing your mind, but in your research you may want to at leasttry and look at it from the other persons perspective. Closed mindedness leads to no progress being made.
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lol at NOBODY answering FADE's question... You jews are your darn logic

oh and coming from a jew, astoria queens is awesome...mad arab place now....they kind of "took it" from the greeks... shouldn't the greeks beentitled to their land!!!!???? haha

bout to go over there and get some greek food before i go out for new years actually.
 
MALCOLM X wrote: Why does Isreal continue to solve problems with bombs instead of diplomacy? These Palestinians are not savages, they are oppressed, impoverished, and enraged.


hahahahhahaaaaaaaaa WOWWWW

why bomb instead of diplomacy? cuz arifat screwed that up.... give and inch and "palestinians" want a mile. You can't use diplomacy againstpeople who fire rockets and then hide in hospitals and schools.... ridiculous wow.
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hahahahhahaaaaaaaaa WOWWWW

why bomb instead of diplomacy? cuz arifat screwed that up.... give and inch and "palestinians" want a mile. You can't use diplomacy against people who fire rockets and then hide in hospitals and schools.... ridiculous wow.
Do you even know what the terms of the deal were?

Yes, they were to get 97% of the land, but do you understand the rest of the terms? Just in case you don't, I'll explain.

First off, by the end of the talks, Israel was going to keep about 6% of the West Bank. This included their larger settlements, and the newly constructedhighways that led into them. To make up for this, Israel was going to give the Palestinians a part of Israel that was desert, and equated to about 3%. Now,what would the new Palestine look like?

It would have been three small territories that would have been completely seperated from one another, whether it be by Israeli fortifications, roads patrolledby the Israeli army, or fences that had, guess what? Checkpoints. This means that even if it were created, a citizen of the new Palestinian state could notmaneuver around his homeland, from say, Nablus to Gaza City, without the permission of the Israelis.

Also, Israel wanted to keep 5 military bases in the Jordan Valley. They wanted to control the airspace above, the water below, and the coast that would havebordered the new nation.

To quote Richard Ben Cramer, "the Israelis proposed to continue their occupation, with a prettier name- Palestine."
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[h1][/h1]
We must adjust our distorted image of Hamas [h2]Gaza is a secular society where people listen to pop music, watch TV and many women walk the streets unveiled[/h2]
William Sieghart

Last week I was in Gaza. While I was there I met a group of 20 or so police officers who were undergoing a course in conflict management. They were eager to know whether foreigners felt safer since Hamas had taken over the Government? Indeed we did, we told them. Without doubt the past 18 months had seen a comparative calm on the streets of Gaza; no gunmen on the streets, no more kidnappings. They smiled with great pride and waved us goodbye.

Less than a week later all of these men were dead, killed by an Israeli rocket at a graduation ceremony. Were they "dangerous Hamas militant gunmen"? No, they were unarmed police officers, public servants killed not in a "militant training camp" but in the same police station in the middle of Gaza City that had been used by the British, the Israelis and Fatah during their periods of rule there.

This distinction is crucial because while the horrific scenes in Gaza and Israel play themselves out on our television screens, a war of words is being fought that is clouding our understanding of the realities on the ground.

Who or what is Hamas, the movement that Ehud Barak, the Israeli Defence Minister, would like to wipe out as though it were a virus? Why did it win the Palestinian elections and why does it allow rockets to be fired into Israel? The story of Hamas over the past three years reveals how the Israeli, US and UK governments' misunderstanding of this Islamist movement has led us to the brutal and desperate situation that we are in now.

The story begins nearly three years ago when Change and Reform - Hamas's political party - unexpectedly won the first free and fair elections in the Arab world, on a platform of ending endemic corruption and improving the almost non-existent public services in Gaza and the West Bank. Against a divided opposition this ostensibly religious party impressed the predominantly secular community to win with 42 per cent of the vote.

Palestinians did not vote for Hamas because it was dedicated to the destruction of the state of Israel or because it had been responsible for waves of suicide bombings that had killed Israeli citizens. They voted for Hamas because they thought that Fatah, the party of the rejected Government, had failed them. Despite renouncing violence and recognising the state of Israel Fatah had not achieved a Palestinian state. It is crucial to know this to understand the supposed rejectionist position of Hamas. It won't recognise Israel or renounce the right to resist until it is sure of the world's commitment to a just solution to the Palestinian issue.

In the five years that I have been visiting Gaza and the West Bank, I have met hundreds of Hamas politicians and supporters. None of them has professed the goal of Islamising Palestinian society, Taleban-style. Hamas relies on secular voters too much to do that. People still listen to pop music, watch television and women still choose whether to wear the veil or not.

The political leadership of Hamas is probably the most highly qualified in the world. Boasting more than 500 PhDs in its ranks, the majority are middle-class professionals - doctors, dentists, scientists and engineers. Most of its leadership have been educated in our universities and harbour no ideological hatred towards the West. It is a grievance-based movement, dedicated to addressing the injustice done to its people. It has consistently offered a ten-year ceasefire to give breathing space to resolve a conflict that has continued for more than 60 years.

The Bush-Blair response to the Hamas victory in 2006 is the key to today's horror. Instead of accepting the democratically elected Government, they funded an attempt to remove it by force; training and arming groups of Fatah fighters to unseat Hamas militarily and impose a new, unelected government on the Palestinians. Further, 45 Hamas MPs are still being held in Israeli jails.

Six months ago the Israeli Government agreed to an Egyptian- brokered ceasefire with Hamas. In return for a ceasefire, Israel agreed to open the crossing points and allow a free flow of essential supplies in and out of Gaza. The rocket barrages ended but the crossings never fully opened, and the people of Gaza began to starve. This crippling embargo was no reward for peace.

When Westerners ask what is in the mind of Hamas leaders when they order or allow rockets to be fired at Israel they fail to understand the Palestinian position. Two months ago the Israeli Defence Forces broke the ceasefire by entering Gaza and beginning the cycle of killing again. In the Palestinian narrative each round of rocket attacks is a response to Israeli attacks. In the Israeli narrative it is the other way round.

But what does it mean when Mr Barak talks of destroying Hamas? Does it mean killing the 42 per cent of Palestinians who voted for it? Does it mean reoccupying the Gaza strip that Israel withdrew from so painfully three years ago? Or does it mean permanently separating the Palestinians of Gaza and the West Bank, politically and geographically? And for those whose mantra is Israeli security, what sort of threat do the three quarters of a million young people growing up in Gaza with an implacable hatred of those who starve and bomb them pose?

It is said that this conflict is impossible to solve. In fact, it is very simple. The top 1,000 people who run Israel - the politicians, generals and security staff - and the top Palestinian Islamists have never met. Genuine peace will require that these two groups sit down together without preconditions. But the events of the past few days seem to have made this more unlikely than ever. That is the challenge for the new administration in Washington and for its European allies.

William Sieghart is chairman of Forward Thinking, an independent conflict resolution agency


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5420584.ecehttp://www.timesonline.co...butors/article5420584.ece
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that piece of crap chose to put hs family in danger. Israel stated that they will blow the place up and people CHOSE to stay. wanna be a martyr? got your wish
 
He didn't choose to put them in danger. If Israel did say that they were going to strike him, then his family chose to stay with him.

Also, just because they may have chosen to stay with him, does not justify their murder at the hands of Israel.

Its funny how people just choose to ignore facts and stay stuck inside their closed minded views.
 
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