FREE Palestine! END the Occupation! STOP the Bombings! EDIT: BEGIN THE BOYCOTTS! PLEASE READ

[fede dpt]

I want an answer to a question that has been asked a few times without an answer.


Why do the Palestinian people feel they are entitled to land?

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

I want an answer to a question that has been asked a few times without an answer.


Why do the Palestinian people feel they are entitled to land?

Why are any kind of peoples entitled to land?

What kind of a question is that?

 

[mideastbeast]

Why do the Israelis ?

 

[martdizzle23]

Why is anyone entitled to land?

 

[e3lal]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

I want an answer to a question that has been asked a few times without an answer.


Why do the Palestinian people feel they are entitled to land?

Why are any kind of peoples entitled to land?

What kind of a question is that?

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

I want an answer to a question that has been asked a few times without an answer.


Why do the Palestinian people feel they are entitled to land?

Why are any kind of peoples entitled to land?

What kind of a question is that?

Well, consider this. Palestine was never a country, it was a British Mandate that had other social groups other than Arabs and Jews.

The British pretty much said "F this, we're going to leave and let them figure it out." In which you have the Arab-Israeli War where the Israeliswent to war with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan , Iraq, Holy War Army, Arab Liberation Army , and the Saudis.

Israel prevailed hence you have the state of Israel. So what is the Palestinians claim to the land? You went to war and you lost not once, not twice, butthree times.

So like what happened in the Revolutionary War between the U.S. and England, Haitians and the French, Spanish-American War, ect. in which LAND was fought over.

Are we still fighting Mexico over the Southwestern part over the U.S.? No. There was a war, the United States won. It's that simple.

On top of it, the Palestinians should be grateful that the Israelis won the Gaza from the Egyptians and the West Bank from the Jordanians otherwise they wouldhave nowhere else to go.

So tell me why there should be an Palestinian state. What is their claim?

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

I want an answer to a question that has been asked a few times without an answer.


Why do the Palestinian people feel they are entitled to land?

Why are any kind of peoples entitled to land?

What kind of a question is that?

Well, consider this. Palestine was never a country, it was a British Mandate that had other social groups other than Arabs and Jews.

The British pretty much said "F this, we're going to leave and let them figure it out." In which you have the Arab-Israeli War where the Israelis went to war with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan , Iraq, Holy War Army, Arab Liberation Army , and the Saudis.

Israel prevailed hence you have the state of Israel. So what is the Palestinians claim to the land? You went to war and you lost not once, not twice, but three times.

So like what happened in the Revolutionary War between the U.S. and England, Haitians and the French, Spanish-American War, ect. in which LAND was fought over.

Are we still fighting Mexico over the Southwestern part over the U.S.? No. There was a war, the United States won. It's that simple.

On top of it, the Palestinians should be grateful that the Israelis won the Gaza from the Egyptians and the West Bank from the Jordanians otherwise they would have nowhere else to go.

So tell me why there should be an Palestinian state. What is their claim?

Israel was never a nation state either until 1948. Palestine was supposed to have become a nation state eventually buthas not come to be due to certain circumstances. Many countries (besides Palestine) that were colonized during that era were under mandates of various Europeancountries. Ok, they lost the wars, but they have every single right to the last drop of blood to fight for self-determination and for full independence.

However, your logic makes no sense. Some of those conflicts you mention, there were uprisings, revolts, and rebellions fighting for independence of thoseterritories for centuries. I doubt the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will still be the same after 100 years, it is still 60 years going on now. Also, with thePalestinian Israeli conflict, it is a complete different case to the ones you mentioned where borders were redrawn more frequently and nation states were justbeing established in some sections of the world. Those cases you mention also happened during a time before international law was implemented. Things work alot differently now. Unfortunately, colonization and abuse of human rights abuse are still very present in today's world. However, especially since afterWWII, the concept of decolonization, independence, nationalism, human rights were all implemented under international law.

Afterall, Palestinians are a landless people with no country at the moment whose sovereignty and independence has been infringed upon and whose human rightsare not respected.

As deemed under international law, Palestinians have every right to establish a state and full self-determination and independence just as with any other kindof peoples that has the right claim to do so. As I previously stated, this conflict for Palestinians is more than just about a piece of land, they are fightingfor justice, equality, and freedom.

All Palestinians have a right to Palestine. They have every right to return and retain their homeland. As with every other peoples who have full status ascitizens of an independent nation, protecting Palestinian rights is a universal obligation. As the Universal Declaration of Human Rightsstates, "the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom from fear and want as the highest aspiration of the common people".However, sixty years on, this is unfortunately not a reality for the Palestinians. Furthermore, over-arching all rights is the right to self determination theright to a state of which the Palestinians have been deprived through sixty years of exile and dispossession. (Article 1 to both the InternationalConvention on Civil and Political Rights]/I], as well as the International Convention on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, explicitly indicatesthat "All peoples have the right of self-determination.")
Why then are any other kind of peoples entitled to land? Why did black South Africans have a right to what they were fightingfor during the Apartheid era? Why were the African Americans entitled rights in the U.S.? Why should the Tibetans be entitled to rights of self-determination?You see how ludicrous it is for you to even ask that question?

First and foremost, there can be no lasting peace and justice in the region without fulfillment of the Palestinian human right to self determination.Palestinian self-determination is a human right and must be recognized as such and that is why they are entitled to that land besides many other obviousreasons.

 

[callhimar]

Well, consider this. Palestine was never a country, it was a British Mandate that had other social groups other than Arabs and Jews.

The British pretty much said "F this, we're going to leave and let them figure it out." In which you have the Arab-Israeli War where the Israelis went to war with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan , Iraq, Holy War Army, Arab Liberation Army , and the Saudis.

Israel prevailed hence you have the state of Israel. So what is the Palestinians claim to the land? You went to war and you lost not once, not twice, but three times.

So like what happened in the Revolutionary War between the U.S. and England, Haitians and the French, Spanish-American War, ect. in which LAND was fought over.

Are we still fighting Mexico over the Southwestern part over the U.S.? No. There was a war, the United States won. It's that simple.

On top of it, the Palestinians should be grateful that the Israelis won the Gaza from the Egyptians and the West Bank from the Jordanians otherwise they would have nowhere else to go.

So tell me why there should be an Palestinian state. What is their claim?

First off, every other war you mentioned happened before the Geneva Conventions, which outlawed exactly what America did in the Spanish-American War. Of courseit was because of what was done by Hitler, but in his case it was wrong because he went too far. This is not the 19th century. We have grown wiser and weunderstand that we cannot just invade a country and take it for ourselves.

This goes into the next point, in which Britain would have had to give up Palestine soon after World War II, which would have allowed the Palestinian people tohave control of their own land. This was prevented by the Israeli's who came in and took it from them. Also, during the Arab Israeli War, the Israeli'salready had an underground military set up, because they knew that they would one day have to fight this war. The Palestinians did not, because it was going tobe their land. They were in their own homes. If you're wondering why they didn't, its like saying to someone who just had their house burguralized,"Why didn't you have a knife ready and in your hand?" It just doesn't make any sense. So because of this, Israel had a much larger army andsimply crushed those in their way.

You also have to remember that Britain did not even want to allow that many Jews into Palestine in the first place, it just got overwhelmed by the demand afterWorld War II, which was completely justified, because of what had happened.

I read a quote somewhere, and its true. Israel can have a small country with an Jewish majority, or a large country with an Arab majority, but if it wants tobe a large Jewish State, then it will have to function as an apartheid state, which cannot be allowed.

Also, if Jews want a state that is under Jewish law from the Torah, what is the difference between that and an Islamic Republic?


And, what she said ^^

 

[fede dpt]

Israel was never a nation state either until 1948. Palestine was supposed to have become a nation state eventually but has not come to be due to certain circumstances. Many countries (besides Palestine) that were colonized during that era were under mandates of various European countries. Ok, they lost the wars, but they have every single right to the last drop of blood to fight for self-determination and for full independence.


Exactly, there was a war which the Israelis won. They declared themselves as a country.

Look at the past 500 years look at who controlled that part of the world up until the British left. I'll save you time, it wasn't the"Palestinians".

This goes into the next point, in which Britain would have had to give up Palestine soon after World War II, which would have allowed the Palestinian people to have control of their own land.


Who are the Palestinian people? Like I mentioned, under British Mandate there were alot of various social groups? Be specific. There are so many differenttypes of people who lived in this British controlled area. What is the identity of the "Palestinian people?

Some of those conflicts you mention, there were uprisings, revolts, and rebellions fighting for independence of those territories for centuries.


Just "uprising" and "rebellions"? Fighting neighboring countries is a little more than that.

As deemed under international law, Palestinians have every right to establish a state and full self-determination and independence just as with any other kind of peoples that has the right claim to do so. As I previously stated, this conflict for Palestinians is more than just about a piece of land, they are fighting for justice, equality, and freedom.


But your not answering why? What is the International Law that states that they have every right to do this? Israel won Independence and had control of everypiece of land. So, again. Why do they have this right? From a Human Rights standpoint I understand that people have right to freedom and they do to someextent, whatever their Gov't didnt already take away.

But, where does it say that you have a right to State?

All Palestinians have a right to Palestine. They have every right to return and retain their homeland.

Like I said, who are the Palestinians?

As the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states, "the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom from fear and want as the highest aspiration of the common people".


Nowhere in this quote do I see they have a right to a "State". I understand "Freedom", but "State"? It's not there.

First and foremost, there can be no lasting peace and justice in the region without fulfillment of the Palestinian human right to self determination. Palestinian self-determination is a human right and must be recognized as such and that is why they are entitled to that land besides many other obvious reasons.


I agree with this. Unfortunately, your Gov't prevents you from doing this.

Also, during the Arab Israeli War, the Israeli's already had an underground military set up, because they knew that they would one day have to fight this war. The Palestinians did not, because it was going to be their land. They were in their own homes. If you're wondering why they didn't, its like saying to someone who just had their house burguralized, "Why didn't you have a knife ready and in your hand?" It just doesn't make any sense. So because of this, Israel had a much larger army and simply crushed those in their way.


Look up at my previous post of how many countries fought AGAINST Israel in 1948 and you tell me if Israel had a bigger military.



The entire word "Palestinian" is a fabrication, up until Arafat they were known as "Arabs" and he was Jordanian

Not once has anyone mentioned the war between West Bank arabs and the Jordanians. Nobody wants them.

 

[callhimar]

Also, during the Arab Israeli War, the Israeli's already had an underground military set up, because they knew that they would one day have to fight this war. The Palestinians did not, because it was going to be their land. They were in their own homes. If you're wondering why they didn't, its like saying to someone who just had their house burguralized, "Why didn't you have a knife ready and in your hand?" It just doesn't make any sense. So because of this, Israel had a much larger army and simply crushed those in their way.


Look up at my previous post of how many countries fought AGAINST Israel in 1948 and you tell me if Israel had a bigger military.
You fail to realize that by the end of the war, numbers wise, Israel did have the upper hand. It doesn't matter how many countries areattacking, its about the boots on the ground. There were almost double the ammount of Israeli soldiers than all the Arab forces combine.

Exactly, there was a war which the Israelis won. They declared themselves as a country.
They actually declared independence before the war began.

 

[mideastbeast]

We have strayed far off topic;

Death toll is at 375 with at least 60 of those confirmed to be civilians. No sign of an end either.

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Also, during the Arab Israeli War, the Israeli's already had an underground military set up, because they knew that they would one day have to fight this war. The Palestinians did not, because it was going to be their land. They were in their own homes. If you're wondering why they didn't, its like saying to someone who just had their house burguralized, "Why didn't you have a knife ready and in your hand?" It just doesn't make any sense. So because of this, Israel had a much larger army and simply crushed those in their way.

Look up at my previous post of how many countries fought AGAINST Israel in 1948 and you tell me if Israel had a bigger military.
You fail to realize that by the end of the war, numbers wise, Israel did have the upper hand. It doesn't matter how many countries are attacking, its about the boots on the ground. There were almost double the ammount of Israeli soldiers than all the Arab forces combine.

Exactly, there was a war which the Israelis won. They declared themselves as a country.
They actually declared independence before the war began.

Are you kidding me? In 1948 the Arab leaders told their people to LEAVE because they thought they would be able to wipe Israel out in a matter of days as aresult of them thinking they OUTNUMBERED them.

Why do you think there are REFUGEE CAMPS? How do you think these people were "Displaced"?

Arabs having a Tribal Mentality in 2008 is a problem.

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by ReliantJ

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

We have strayed far off topic;

Death toll is at 375 with at least 60 of those confirmed to be civilians. No sign of an end either.

The news videos of parents looking over their dead kids is disgusting.

I was watching the Arab news channels earlier, it's too depressing

All they've been showing is dead bodies. Hopefully more aid gets into Gaza and Hamas realizes that their rocket attacks are doing damage to no one but thePalestinians.

 

[callhimar]

Are you kidding me? In 1948 the Arab leaders told their people to LEAVE because they thought they would be able to wipe Israel out in a matter of days as a result of them thinking they OUTNUMBERED them.

Why do you think there are REFUGEE CAMPS? How do you think these people were "Displaced"?

Arabs having a Tribal Mentality in 2008 is a problem.

I don't understand your point. You told me to look at your previous post, I did, then I searched a bit, and my point was proven, and then you went off on atangent.

Point being, the Israeli Army was in fact larger than the Arab armies. They were displaced because they were driven from their homes.

I'm not sure if the last comment was directed toward me, but I'm not Arab.

 

[martdizzle23]

Fede DPT wrote:

Arabs having a Tribal Mentality in 2008 is a problem.

 

[praise the x i]

San Fransisco streets are basically SHUT down for the protest right now. FREE PALESTINE!

 

[praise the x i]

San Fransisco streets are basically SHUT down for the protest right now. FREE PALESTINE!

 

[callhimar]

^ Thats pretty awesome.

Never realized that this had so much support in America.

 

[quest4glory]

Free Palestine!!!

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Fede, seriously what you say is absolutely ludicrious. I have argued and seen your kind way too many before. You are a blatantly prejudiceagainst Palestinians since you see them as democralized, senseless savages less than human beings.

I can already tell by your questions you are one of those that thinks Palestinians do not truly exist. You were brainwashed with this stream line of thinkingthat is used in order to erase Palestinians and their identity.

Keep on hating.

Palestinians are a reality and are recognized under international law and will get their self-determination and independent state. It might not be today, itmight not be tomorrow, but after all the tears, bloodshed, and when they finally attain their basic human right of gaining the ultimate freedom, peace canfinally be restored.

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by ReliantJ

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

^ Thats pretty awesome.

Never realized that this had so much support in America.

San Franciscans would support the right to adopt pet ants.
BTW some Jews in SF are also in the rally.

They really do protest a lot. They're the only Americans with the guts to speak their minds anymore.

 

[tbone95860]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

^If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
Camp was completely surrounded by Israeli tanks and troops, and there is tons of evidence that it was meticulously planned by Israel.
5 second wikipedia search = F ail

I actually read books, son. I do my own independent objective research, I'm not dictated by Mass Media. Of course I did a 5 second search on Wiki to prove my point, do you want me to give you books I have actually read on that whole ordeal?
Don't be mad because I know more about your own people than you do.

This dude is a joke Fede.... you're wasting your time.
Clearly you know what you're talking about.

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

^If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
Camp was completely surrounded by Israeli tanks and troops, and there is tons of evidence that it was meticulously planned by Israel.
5 second wikipedia search = F ail

I actually read books, son. I do my own independent objective research, I'm not dictated by Mass Media. Of course I did a 5 second search on Wiki to prove my point, do you want me to give you books I have actually read on that whole ordeal?
Don't be mad because I know more about your own people than you do.

This dude is a joke Fede.... you're wasting your time.
Clearly you know what you're talking about.

You have contributed absolutely nothing to this discussion. All you do is come in and post news articles or make stupid statements like your"anti-Semitic" comment. It would be ok if you know what you were talking about but neither of you do. A quick 5 minutes on google can help educateyou on this topic, and you will see that Sharon and Israel were clearly responsible for both massacres.

Only "joke" I see here is you. Even Fede brings more to the discussion than you do, sad.

 

[swyftdahoe]

I don't know nearly enough to join this debate.. But I do know that I hate 1 Jewish person.. And his NT name is Fede DPT.. No generalizations justspecificity.. You sir are a douche.. Nike may be able to sell you their shoes but they clearly can't teach you how to walk a mile in anyone else'sshoes..

 

[wooly willy]

This is one of those discussions I don't ever get involved in because of how quickly it can become a shouting match like it has in this thread...

I am not Arab but I am Muslim so I do feel very sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian people and I hope their suffering will end soon. As a human being,I hope the killing and death on both sides comes to an end. It's easy to blame the Israelis for the problems happening in Palestine and it's just aseasy to blame the Palestinians but it doesn't matter who is at fault anymore, they just need to bring and end to this