FREE Palestine! END the Occupation! STOP the Bombings! EDIT: BEGIN THE BOYCOTTS! PLEASE READ

[mr delorean]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Fede DPT wrote:

Homie please, The Palestinians are losing credibility by the day. The Egyptian Gov't even came out today to Condemn the Palestinian rockets.

You act like the Palestinians were never getting aid money from the U.S. Do your history, bro.

When the Palestinians care more about their children more than they hate Israel, there will be peace.

The Egyptian government which is a corrupt dictatorship and an ally to the U.S. and Israel? They are slaughtering Palestinians now at the Egyptian border, so what point are you making by using their remarks?

Your last statement I bolded disgusts me. You do not dare speak about Palestinians not caring for their children. Right there is rhetorics you spew from prejudice against Palestinians and Arabs which I have heard quite often unfortunately from extreme pro-Israelis. I do not care if you talk about Palestinian politics, terrorism, whatever...But making generalized statements like that just really show your true colors. Right there, implying Palestinians do not care for their children, you are painting them as a bunch of demoralized, barbaric savages void of love and care for their families with no sense of worth. But of course Palestinians do not "exist" to you right? So they are just savages that do not care for their children, right?



maybe everyone should care about their families more than a god that doesnt exist? when its all said and done, and youre rotting in the ground,what you have now, on this earth, is all that matters. why spend that time wasting it on something that will never come?

 

[an dee 51o]

I tried to come into this thread to educate myself, but it seems like there's just a bunch of Jew-bashing going on. Maybe I'll try to do independentresearch later on so I can formulate my own opinion.

 

[martdizzle23]

Originally Posted by mr delorean

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Fede DPT wrote:

Homie please, The Palestinians are losing credibility by the day. The Egyptian Gov't even came out today to Condemn the Palestinian rockets.

You act like the Palestinians were never getting aid money from the U.S. Do your history, bro.

When the Palestinians care more about their children more than they hate Israel, there will be peace.

The Egyptian government which is a corrupt dictatorship and an ally to the U.S. and Israel? They are slaughtering Palestinians now at the Egyptian border, so what point are you making by using their remarks?

Your last statement I bolded disgusts me. You do not dare speak about Palestinians not caring for their children. Right there is rhetorics you spew from prejudice against Palestinians and Arabs which I have heard quite often unfortunately from extreme pro-Israelis. I do not care if you talk about Palestinian politics, terrorism, whatever...But making generalized statements like that just really show your true colors. Right there, implying Palestinians do not care for their children, you are painting them as a bunch of demoralized, barbaric savages void of love and care for their families with no sense of worth. But of course Palestinians do not "exist" to you right? So they are just savages that do not care for their children, right?

maybe everyone should care about their families more than a god that doesnt exist? when its all said and done, and youre rotting in the ground, what you have now, on this earth, is all that matters. why spend that time wasting it on something that will never come?


well thats your belief . again this is a prejudice generalized statement reread what he wrote

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by mr delorean

maybe everyone should care about their families more than a god that doesnt exist? when its all said and done, and youre rotting in the ground, what you have now, on this earth, is all that matters. why spend that time wasting it on something that will never come?

I do agree with your general argument, however the reality is that the world does not work that way. If we lived in an absolute perfect world,there would be no territories, no borders, no nationalities, no properties. But, as humans we have evolved to take all that and compete for all of it. Whensome human being decided to point his finger at a tree and said, that is MY property, then that is when it all probably started. But as humans we are greedy,we are selfish, and we starve for power and dominance.

Humans will always struggle for causes, for independence, for human rights, for peace, anywhere and everywhere. Especially after WWII, the concept ofdecolonization, independence, nationalism, human rights were all implemented under international law.

As I see it, Palestinians are not just fighting for a "state", they are fighting for freedom, equality, and justice, and some are willing to die forall that as have other kinds of people in the past. The Israelis think they are fighting for their cause and the same things. So as long as there is thisbattle of ideals, there will always be wars.

Look at what happened in South Africa, even take a closer look at the civil rights movement in the U.S.

It is more than just about a piece of land or religion or God, this is where people's freedom is at stake.

Let me Nelson Mandela again:

Quote:
[table][tr][td]"I have fought against white domination and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die."[/td] [/tr][/table]

 

[mr delorean]

Originally Posted by MarTdiZzle23

Originally Posted by mr delorean

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Fede DPT wrote:

Homie please, The Palestinians are losing credibility by the day. The Egyptian Gov't even came out today to Condemn the Palestinian rockets.

You act like the Palestinians were never getting aid money from the U.S. Do your history, bro.

When the Palestinians care more about their children more than they hate Israel, there will be peace.

The Egyptian government which is a corrupt dictatorship and an ally to the U.S. and Israel? They are slaughtering Palestinians now at the Egyptian border, so what point are you making by using their remarks?

Your last statement I bolded disgusts me. You do not dare speak about Palestinians not caring for their children. Right there is rhetorics you spew from prejudice against Palestinians and Arabs which I have heard quite often unfortunately from extreme pro-Israelis. I do not care if you talk about Palestinian politics, terrorism, whatever...But making generalized statements like that just really show your true colors. Right there, implying Palestinians do not care for their children, you are painting them as a bunch of demoralized, barbaric savages void of love and care for their families with no sense of worth. But of course Palestinians do not "exist" to you right? So they are just savages that do not care for their children, right?

maybe everyone should care about their families more than a god that doesnt exist? when its all said and done, and youre rotting in the ground, what you have now, on this earth, is all that matters. why spend that time wasting it on something that will never come?

well thats your belief . again this is a prejudice generalized statement reread what he wrote


of course, its completely prejudiced. that doesnt change the fact that this is becoming the general consensus in the US. as i said before, afterthe next islamic attack its going to get ugly in the US for foreign and american muslims. i guess at this point its unavoidable.
.

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Fede DPT wrote:

Homie please, The Palestinians are losing credibility by the day. The Egyptian Gov't even came out today to Condemn the Palestinian rockets.

You act like the Palestinians were never getting aid money from the U.S. Do your history, bro.

When the Palestinians care more about their children more than they hate Israel, there will be peace.

The Egyptian government which is a corrupt dictatorship and an ally to the U.S. and Israel? They are slaughtering Palestinians now at the Egyptian border, so what point are you making by using their remarks?

Your last statement I bolded disgusts me. You do not dare speak about Palestinians not caring for their children. Right there is rhetorics you spew from prejudice against Palestinians and Arabs which I have heard quite often unfortunately from extreme pro-Israelis. I do not care if you talk about Palestinian politics, terrorism, whatever...But making generalized statements like that just really show your true colors. Right there, implying Palestinians do not care for their children, you are painting them as a bunch of demoralized, barbaric savages void of love and care for their families with no sense of worth. But of course Palestinians do not "exist" to you right? So they are just savages that do not care for their children, right?





The simple fact that Egypt has helped the Palestinian movement for decades. Like I said do your history.



Look...

These are children. What civilized parent would let there child parade like this?

Read about the AL-AQSA Intifada and their EXPLOITATION of children and teenagers.


Salah Shehade one the head of Hamas who is dead now, discussed a long time ago about recruiting children to train them to carry out terror attacks.

I don't have a prejudice against Palestinians. I'm for what's right and what's wrong. Every person you mentioned in your posts is a terrorist.


Everyone who is Pro-Palestinian in this thread has not presented anything legitimate so far. Everything has been "Palestinians versus the world", Ihave pointed out facts. Every problems the Palestinians face have been answered with "The Israelis stole it", its getting old. The Palestinians havecontrol of all of Gaza and control most of the West Bank and have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, they have a sorry excuse for a Gov't who feed of the oppressionof their own people.



Still, there is no information presented that the Palestinians are entitled to that land. Why? Like I said, they NEVER had control at ANY point in history.

 

[martdizzle23]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Fede DPT wrote:

Homie please, The Palestinians are losing credibility by the day. The Egyptian Gov't even came out today to Condemn the Palestinian rockets.

You act like the Palestinians were never getting aid money from the U.S. Do your history, bro.

When the Palestinians care more about their children more than they hate Israel, there will be peace.

The Egyptian government which is a corrupt dictatorship and an ally to the U.S. and Israel? They are slaughtering Palestinians now at the Egyptian border, so what point are you making by using their remarks?

Your last statement I bolded disgusts me. You do not dare speak about Palestinians not caring for their children. Right there is rhetorics you spew from prejudice against Palestinians and Arabs which I have heard quite often unfortunately from extreme pro-Israelis. I do not care if you talk about Palestinian politics, terrorism, whatever...But making generalized statements like that just really show your true colors. Right there, implying Palestinians do not care for their children, you are painting them as a bunch of demoralized, barbaric savages void of love and care for their families with no sense of worth. But of course Palestinians do not "exist" to you right? So they are just savages that do not care for their children, right?

The Palestinians have control of all of Gaza and control most of the West Bank and have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, they have a sorry excuse for a Gov't who feed of the oppression of their own people.

How can their government which was elected do anything for the people if everyone claims it is a terrorist organization and place economicdifficulties on the land with closing of borders and no permitting of trading. No money to be spent on any development.
edit: don't support your claims with pictures. In your posts you seem to be saying every child is an honor to be a soldier in palestine this is false. Whatyour trying to say is different from the ground situation of gazan/ palestinian life. Not every child/ family in gaza is like this. Radicals are in almostevery society.

 

[tbone95860]

http://www.reuters.com/article/worl...eedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=22&sp=trueAIR STRIKES ON GAZA CONTINUE...

'WAR TO THE BITTER END'...

UN AMBASSADOR: ISRAEL SEEKS TO 'DESTROY'HAMAS...

Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan see anti-Israel rallies...

Iranian connection?

Clerics recruit volunteers to fight...

Islamic universitybombed...

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Fede DPT wrote:


What is your point in showing those pictures? These are people stuck in a society that all they grew up and know about is war and are persecutedand opressed with no freedom. Holding guns is just a symbolism for upholding the uprising. I can guarantee you there are no Palestinian children soldiers arethere are in African countries in some civil wars.

I can show you pictures, and the same thing from the Israeli side...For example....

That last pic I think was taken from a summer camp that teaches U.S. Jewish teens to fight Israeli style.

It was very easy for me to find these pics too.

So again, what is your point? This kind of indoctrination is present in BOTH sides. But of course, you are only so willfully to think it only happens withPalestinians and dismiss the fact that in some Jewish families, the indoctrination of hatred towards Arabs and Palestinians and to fight is also present in aninfluential manner. Afterall, Israelis are prepared to serve in the army since in their teens and have to serve two years mandatory in the army. You thinkthere is no indoctrination of hate that is taught to them in order to fight Palestinians?

This is the ugly and vicious side of war. But then again, don't completely blame and say it happens on one side in trying to demoralize and devalue them asless than human beings when it is very clearly present on the Jewish side too.

 

[rellnye]

Hazel,

You forgot the pics. in which the Jewish kids were beating on the Palestinian woman as she was walking.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by RellNye

Hazel,

You forgot the pics. in which the Jewish kids were beating on the Palestinian woman as she was walking.

I know the picture you are talking about. That picture infuriates me to no end. I forgot where I saw it though. There are also all these Youtubevideos of Israeli settler kids throwing rocks and taunting or beating Palestinians. But of course, this is only present in the Palestinian culture, andPalestinians hate Israel more than they love their children.

I was alsoreading about how some Jewish families from the U.S., Europe, Mexico put their children in these eight training week courses run by the IDF. Then some of thesekids will post pictures of themselves wearing the Israeli army uniforms and holding automatic guns on Myspace. But then of course, this is all just so innocentwhen it comes them.

If we are going to talk about Palestinians "hating" their children and how they feed hate to them (which is often painted as that it happens in ALLPalestinian families), pleeeaasseeeee...sit down. I can show you tons of this stuff that also happens on the Jewish/Israeli side.

 

[rellnye]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by RellNye

Hazel,

You forgot the pics. in which the Jewish kids were beating on the Palestinian woman as she was walking.

I know the picture you are talking about. That picture infuriates me to no end. I forgot where I saw it though. There are also all these Youtube videos of Israeli settler kids throwing rocks and taunting or beating Palestinians. But of course, this is only present in the Palestinian culture, and Palestinians hate Israel more than they love their children.

I was also reading about how some Jewish families from the U.S., Europe, Mexico put their children in these eight training week courses run by the IDF. Then some of these kids will post pictures of themselves wearing the Israeli army uniforms and holding automatic guns on Myspace. But then of course, this is all just so innocent when it comes them.

If we are going to talk about Palestinians "hating" their children and how they feed hate to them (which is often painted as that it happens in ALL Palestinian families), pleeeaasseeeee...sit down. I can show you tons of this stuff that also happens on the Jewish/Israeli side.

It happens all the time. It would take me some time but I go through Facebook accounts of the kids at my school posing in their fatigues withtheir M-16s and gangsta stares. Some of the softest kids I ever met personally. Act tough when you have a gun in your hand but when someone is in your face youafraid to look em in the eye.

 

[knowledgethefoundation]

Yes OP, they're gonna Free Palestine because you made a protest thread on NikeTalk.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by RellNye

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by RellNye

Hazel,

You forgot the pics. in which the Jewish kids were beating on the Palestinian woman as she was walking.

I know the picture you are talking about. That picture infuriates me to no end. I forgot where I saw it though. There are also all these Youtube videos of Israeli settler kids throwing rocks and taunting or beating Palestinians. But of course, this is only present in the Palestinian culture, and Palestinians hate Israel more than they love their children.

I was also reading about how some Jewish families from the U.S., Europe, Mexico put their children in these eight training week courses run by the IDF. Then some of these kids will post pictures of themselves wearing the Israeli army uniforms and holding automatic guns on Myspace. But then of course, this is all just so innocent when it comes them.

If we are going to talk about Palestinians "hating" their children and how they feed hate to them (which is often painted as that it happens in ALL Palestinian families), pleeeaasseeeee...sit down. I can show you tons of this stuff that also happens on the Jewish/Israeli side.

It happens all the time. It would take me some time but I go through Facebook accounts of the kids at my school posing in their fatigues with their M-16s and gangsta stares. Some of the softest kids I ever met personally. Act tough when you have a gun in your hand but when someone is in your face you afraid to look em in the eye.

My best friend went to Israel/Palestine recently. It just infuriated her how you have these 18 year old kids at checkpoints with guns thinking they are toughjust because they are in the army and carry guns. The way some of them shove, disrespect, and talk to Palestinians waiting for hours on end and taunt them forsome power trip is disgusting. I watched this documentary called Checkpoint about the daily abuse Palestinians go through when they have to crosscheckpoints. The way some of these immature kids behave because they have guns is sickening.

 

[mideastbeast]

Well, Hazel pretty much summed up everything I was going to say and more

On the topic of Egypt, not only are they corrupt but they are also the recipients of millions in US aid and weapons, Mubarak is basically a pawn of the US inthe area, so what do you expect them to say on this topic ?

The U.S says they support democracy yet fund a dictatorship that oppresses the people such as Egypt for the simple fact that they support Israel. To the U.S,Israeli support is a higher priority then democracy for 80 million people, and that is just Egypt alone, the same goes for many other Middle Eastern countries.


You can go ahead and pick up a history book and read about the activities of the U.S in South America, funding dictatorships and drug king pins. No one talksabout this, no one talks about the Sabra and Shatila massacres, no one talks about the apartheid conditions in Gaza and the west bank, before the rockets.

All we here are "the blood thirsty Muslim islamofacist killers want to kill all non Muslims because they are jealous of our freedom and wealth"

No.

The conflict in Palestine is pretty much the root of all terrorism, if you read al-Qaeda manifestos and other documents, the whole point they are fighting isto "liberate Palestine".

Solve this conflict and terrorism will end, it will not end through illegal invasions, bombings or bullets.

As long as we keep being one sided about this, with "unanimous support for Israel" and "unconditional support for Israel" as directlyquoted by both Cheney and Obama, we will won't have peace.

A bit of the blame also goes to the gulf region, they are rolling in money but instead of giving some to help the struggling Palestinian population, they arebuilding islands in the middle of the ocean and driving diamond encrusted cars

This is why Palestinians and other poor Arabs such as the Muslims of south Lebanon see no hope, and turn to organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah, whodespite terrorism are also doing a lot for the poor such as operating free clinics and schools and charities.

Of course, the media distorts this and all we see is "PALESTINIANS ELECT TERRORIST HAMAS" on the headlines, but never "ISRAELIS ELECT WARCRIMINAL SHARON"; no, never that.

 

[martdizzle23]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Well, Hazel pretty much summed up everything I was going to say and more

On the topic of Egypt, not only are they corrupt but they are also the recipients of millions in US aid and weapons, Mubarak is basically a pawn of the US in the area, so what do you expect them to say on this topic ?

The U.S says they support democracy yet fund a dictatorship that oppresses the people such as Egypt for the simple fact that they support Israel. To the U.S, Israeli support is a higher priority then democracy for 80 million people, and that is just Egypt alone, the same goes for many other Middle Eastern countries.


You can go ahead and pick up a history book and read about the activities of the U.S in South America, funding dictatorships and drug king pins. No one talks about this, no one talks about the Sabra and Shatila massacres, no one talks about the apartheid conditions in Gaza and the west bank, before the rockets.

All we here are "the blood thirsty Muslim islamofacist killers want to kill all non Muslims because they are jealous of our freedom and wealth"

No.

The conflict in Palestine is pretty much the root of all terrorism, if you read al-Qaeda manifestos and other documents, the whole point they are fighting is to "liberate Palestine".

Solve this conflict and terrorism will end, it will not end through illegal invasions, bombings or bullets.

As long as we keep being one sided about this, with "unanimous support for Israel" and "unconditional support for Israel" as directly quoted by both Cheney and Obama, we will won't have peace.

A bit of the blame also goes to the gulf region, they are rolling in money but instead of giving some to help the struggling Palestinian population, they are building islands in the middle of the ocean and driving diamond encrusted cars

This is why Palestinians and other poor Arabs such as the Muslims of south Lebanon see no hope, and turn to organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah, who despite terrorism are also doing a lot for the poor such as operating free clinics and schools and charities.

Of course, the media distorts this and all we see is "PALESTINIANS ELECT TERRORIST HAMAS" on the headlines, but never "ISRAELIS ELECT WAR CRIMINAL SHARON"; no, never that.

the truth

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by ceelo4

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

Why do you deem me a sociopath because I don't care? There is no reason for me to care. People die all the time. Live with it, simple as that.

I don't understand.

I mean, I can't comprehend that. People are suffering and you really couldn't care less?

Yep. If you truly cared you would have done everything you can to help them. Instead, you're sitting at home judging those who dont have the same opinion as you. You don't demand compassion, you earn it.


Judging people?

Did I force you, or him, to click in this thread and express your opinion about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict? I thought this thread was made to supportfriendly debate.

I've tried my best to be as respectful and considerate to others opinions, and rather than just throw around curses or call names to propose facts.

This person specifically feels no remorse for any international suffering. Look at the posts. I was really stating how I couldn't understand that.

I could very well understand, though, feeling more remorse for some over others.

Oh and truly doing my most to help Palestinians?

What can I do that would help? You tell me. Go there and fight?

I'm not afraid to lose my life for Palestine. I feel though, that my death would go in vein.

I have prayed, I have cried, and I have done my best to represent the Palestinian side of the conflict.

With education of the Palestinian side of the conflict, you can create enough support to one day make a difference.

Oh and, my Philly/NYC/NJ NTers:

Gaza walk for justice in Philadelphia on 15th and Locusttomorrow (Tuesday the 30th) at 2 pm.

 

[nt og]

I don't know where these guys are from....but I have to say.

I hate hipsters.

hate them so much that I bought this shirt.

it's freaking hilarious

 

[martdizzle23]

Originally Posted by NT OG

I don't know where these guys are from....but I have to say.

I hate hipsters.

hate them so much that I bought this shirt.

it's freaking hilarious

where can I get it?

 

[nt og]

karmaloop had them for like 9.50 but they sold out.


just google "freshjive hipsters"

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

I'm Israeli and I was raised Jewish (I consider myself an Atheist now). This isnt Jew v. Muslim, this is a battle of ideologies. Every Islamic state HATES Democracy, reason being because they are afraid that their people might get smarter than them, so they institute a "State Sponsored Education System" in this case the Palestinians they teach kids to HATE Israel and the United States. They strap bombs on to LITTLE KIDS!


The Palestinians have always wondered why they havent been taken serious. Lets see here. Well, the leaders whether it be the PLO, Al-AQSA MARTRYS BRIGADE, HAMAS are world wide recognized TERRORIST ORGANZIATIONS, how do you expect to be taken seriously?

The Palestinian Gov't is being played like a bunch of fools by Syria and Iran. Iran and Syria dont care about the Palestinian people, they just dont want Israel there without having to waste their own people. An example of this would be NOBODY wants to give these nutjobs exile. Egypt doesnt want them, Jordan doesnt want them.



The people I feel bad for is the Christian Palestinians. The Muslim Palestinians and Gov't have alienated them and they are trying to make good livings working in Israel.

Again, nothing to do with Judaism, everything to do with Zionism. Not even the Zionists of old were as bad as those that are seen today. At least many of them understood that you could not completely disrespect the Palestinian people and expect them to be fine with it. The Israeli's now don't even see this. They just blame everything on a strong hate for the Jewish people, which quite frankly, is just a cop out so they don't have to face the atrocities that their own people have committed.

Dont speak for Israelis.

The only Jews that dont recognize the state of Israel are the Ultra-Orthodox because they dont believe the Messiah has arrived yet. When the Messiah arrives, thats when they think the "Jewish Homeland" will be established.



Like I stated in my previous post, the IDF wont strike without probable cause. The IDF and intellegence uses the Palestinians own people for their information. These militants are scum of the earth, using innocent people to shield them. So when the IDF strike the Palestinians and kills civilians they want to show the world the the Israelis are the "terrorists". Please...

The ones in Israel do because Gurion gave them everything they wanted. Also, many Jewish people outside of Israel do not agree with many of theirways. This is fact, and it is not only the ultra Orthodox.

It is also hard to not have your military structures in civilian areas when the place you reside is so small.

Also, if what you quoted from me isn't true, then do you feel that the Palestinian people are not disrespected on a daily basis?

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by RellNye

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by RellNye

Hazel,

You forgot the pics. in which the Jewish kids were beating on the Palestinian woman as she was walking.

I know the picture you are talking about. That picture infuriates me to no end. I forgot where I saw it though. There are also all these Youtube videos of Israeli settler kids throwing rocks and taunting or beating Palestinians. But of course, this is only present in the Palestinian culture, and Palestinians hate Israel more than they love their children.

I was also reading about how some Jewish families from the U.S., Europe, Mexico put their children in these eight training week courses run by the IDF. Then some of these kids will post pictures of themselves wearing the Israeli army uniforms and holding automatic guns on Myspace. But then of course, this is all just so innocent when it comes them.

If we are going to talk about Palestinians "hating" their children and how they feed hate to them (which is often painted as that it happens in ALL Palestinian families), pleeeaasseeeee...sit down. I can show you tons of this stuff that also happens on the Jewish/Israeli side.

It happens all the time. It would take me some time but I go through Facebook accounts of the kids at my school posing in their fatigues with their M-16s and gangsta stares. Some of the softest kids I ever met personally. Act tough when you have a gun in your hand but when someone is in your face you afraid to look em in the eye.

My best friend went to Israel/Palestine recently. It just infuriated her how you have these 18 year old kids at checkpoints with guns thinking they are tough just because they are in the army and carry guns. The way some of them shove, disrespect, and talk to Palestinians waiting for hours on end and taunt them for some power trip is disgusting. I watched this documentary called Checkpoint about the daily abuse Palestinians go through when they have to cross checkpoints. The way some of these immature kids behave because they have guns is sickening.

Do you think that those kids want to be there? Do you know how stressful it is for all recruits in the IDF knowing that any day a major war canbreak out and death is that much closer.
That's not even taking into account that life in the IDF is not particularly fun to begin with.

I'm not pulling this out of my %@%. I've heard it from every single Israeli that I know who has served or is serving in the IDF (and that includesFamily).

It's not as simple as they 'have guns and go on power trips". That may be correct for a small percentage but not for most.
They have orders to keep the checkpoint under control. It's 5 or 6 of them and thousands of angry (rightfully so) Palestinians. They have orders to onlylet through a certain amount and only for specific reasons. Of course, those that are not let through get angry at the soldiers. However, are the soldiersreally to blame? Do they set the policy?
Even if the soldiers tried to explain the situation the Palestinians don't want to hear and that's understandable. What's also understandable isthat these young kids are under stress and take that out on those who are angry at them. They have superiors yelling at them constantly. They have Palestiniansyelling at them. Who do you think they're going to take it out on?

That actually reminds me of one time when I went over there and a family member was like. "You know. Most foreign Jews who come here think that if theyget in trouble the police will take it easy on them because we're all Jews". Then he started chuckling.

It's just a complicated situation over there.
As long as both sides want what they currently are asking for then there is no solution. One side will have to take much less than they're hoping for.That's the only way to solve this conflict.
Neither side is ready accept such a deal so they'll keep on fighting.

 

[callhimar]

It's not as simple as they 'have guns and go on power trips". That may be correct for a small percentage but not for most.
They have orders to keep the checkpoint under control. It's 5 or 6 of them and thousands of angry (rightfully so) Palestinians. They have orders to only let through a certain amount and only for specific reasons. Of course, those that are not let through get angry at the soldiers. However, are the soldiers really to blame? Do they set the policy?
Even if the soldiers tried to explain the situation the Palestinians don't want to hear and that's understandable. What's also understandable is that these young kids are under stress and take that out on those who are angry at them. They have superiors yelling at them constantly. They have Palestinians yelling at them. Who do you think they're going to take it out on?
I agree 100% with you there. It really is sad.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Do you think that those kids want to be there? Do you know how stressful it is for all recruits in the IDF knowing that any day a major war can break out and death is that much closer.
That's not even taking into account that life in the IDF is not particularly fun to begin with.

I'm not pulling this out of my %@%. I've heard it from every single Israeli that I know who has served or is serving in the IDF (and that includes Family).

It's not as simple as they 'have guns and go on power trips". That may be correct for a small percentage but not for most.
They have orders to keep the checkpoint under control. It's 5 or 6 of them and thousands of angry (rightfully so) Palestinians. They have orders to only let through a certain amount and only for specific reasons. Of course, those that are not let through get angry at the soldiers. However, are the soldiers really to blame? Do they set the policy?
Even if the soldiers tried to explain the situation the Palestinians don't want to hear and that's understandable. What's also understandable is that these young kids are under stress and take that out on those who are angry at them. They have superiors yelling at them constantly. They have Palestinians yelling at them. Who do you think they're going to take it out on?

That actually reminds me of one time when I went over there and a family member was like. "You know. Most foreign Jews who come here think that if they get in trouble the police will take it easy on them because we're all Jews". Then he started chuckling.

It's just a complicated situation over there.
As long as both sides want what they currently are asking for then there is no solution. One side will have to take much less than they're hoping for. That's the only way to solve this conflict.
Neither side is ready accept such a deal so they'll keep on fighting.

Not all of them are on power trips, but some are. You do make good points, also since they are forced to be in the army and it is mandatory forthem.

Overall, it is the system of checkpoint that has to be fixed.

How it works though, it is purposely made to humiliate Palestinians and these young soldiers are used to do that job.

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Fede DPT wrote:

What is your point in showing those pictures? These are people stuck in a society that all they grew up and know about is war and are persecuted and opressed with no freedom. Holding guns is just a symbolism for upholding the uprising. I can guarantee you there are no Palestinian children soldiers are there are in African countries in some civil wars.

I can show you pictures, and the same thing from the Israeli side...For example....


That last pic I think was taken from a summer camp that teaches U.S. Jewish teens to fight Israeli style.

It was very easy for me to find these pics too.

So again, what is your point? This kind of indoctrination is present in BOTH sides. But of course, you are only so willfully to think it only happens with Palestinians and dismiss the fact that in some Jewish families, the indoctrination of hatred towards Arabs and Palestinians and to fight is also present in an influential manner. Afterall, Israelis are prepared to serve in the army since in their teens and have to serve two years mandatory in the army. You think there is no indoctrination of hate that is taught to them in order to fight Palestinians?

This is the ugly and vicious side of war. But then again, don't completely blame and say it happens on one side in trying to demoralize and devalue them as less than human beings when it is very clearly present on the Jewish side too.


You posted pictures of Israeli's and guns. Israelis are to go into the military once they turn 18 years of age to protect the state of Israel, how can youcompare the two? Do you hear about Israeli children going into markets and busses and blowing themselves up?


On top of it, you posted pictures of Orthodox Jews who if anything would agree with everything you are talking about as far as there shouldn't be anestablished "Jewish Homeland" until the Messiah comes. Nice try, though.

I forgot, the last pic you posted was of a Jewish holiday called Purim (which is like Halloween, look at the boy wearing a Ape suit). As you can clearly see,one of the boys has a Ra'Ashan in his hand (its in pink) as a noise maker for everytime the name Haman is mentioned, which is also why you see "capguns". From recognition of the book, they are reading out of the Megilla.

Google fail


You actually think that they go into the military to fight exclusively Palestinians? The Palestinians fight with "homemade" gadgets, there are other problems that face Israel other than fighting a small uneducated minority of the Palestinian population.

My best friend went to Israel/Palestine recently. It just infuriated her how you have these 18 year old kids at checkpoints with guns thinking they are tough just because they are in the army and carry guns. The way some of them shove, disrespect, and talk to Palestinians waiting for hours on end and taunt them for some power trip is disgusting. I watched this documentary called Checkpoint about the daily abuse Palestinians go through when they have to cross checkpoints. The way some of these immature kids behave because they have guns is sickening.


Are you that dense? Do terrorist wear name tags? Do terrorist wear uniforms? You actually think that Israeli military are going to let Palestinians coming fromtheir settlements into Israeli settlements without checking them?

Are there bad cops? Sure there are. Just like how you say I'm generalizing, you are doing the same.

On the topic of Egypt, not only are they corrupt but they are also the recipients of millions in US aid and weapons, Mubarak is basically a pawn of the US in the area, so what do you expect them to say on this topic ?

The U.S says they support democracy yet fund a dictatorship that oppresses the people such as Egypt for the simple fact that they support Israel. To the U.S, Israeli support is a higher priority then democracy for 80 million people, and that is just Egypt alone, the same goes for many other Middle Eastern countries.


You can go ahead and pick up a history book and read about the activities of the U.S in South America, funding dictatorships and drug king pins. No one talks about this, no one talks about the Sabra and Shatila massacres, no one talks about the apartheid conditions in Gaza and the west bank, before the rockets.

All we here are "the blood thirsty Muslim islamofacist killers want to kill all non Muslims because they are jealous of our freedom and wealth"

No.

The conflict in Palestine is pretty much the root of all terrorism, if you read al-Qaeda manifestos and other documents, the whole point they are fighting is to "liberate Palestine".

Solve this conflict and terrorism will end, it will not end through illegal invasions, bombings or bullets.

As long as we keep being one sided about this, with "unanimous support for Israel" and "unconditional support for Israel" as directly quoted by both Cheney and Obama, we will won't have peace.

A bit of the blame also goes to the gulf region, they are rolling in money but instead of giving some to help the struggling Palestinian population, they are building islands in the middle of the ocean and driving diamond encrusted cars

This is why Palestinians and other poor Arabs such as the Muslims of south Lebanon see no hope, and turn to organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah, who despite terrorism are also doing a lot for the poor such as operating free clinics and schools and charities.

Of course, the media distorts this and all we see is "PALESTINIANS ELECT TERRORIST HAMAS" on the headlines, but never "ISRAELIS ELECT WAR CRIMINAL SHARON"; no, never that.

Are you that young? Do you not know you Anwar Sadat is?


What about those massercres? They were carried out by Lebanese militias.

Stop blaming the Israelis. Why dont you point out the PLO was using Southen Lebanon to bomb Israel and were kicked out the newly elected LebaneseGov't. Nobody wants these jokers in their country.


Like I said. Still, nothing being posted is legitimate. Still blaming the Israelis.

The "Palestinian versus the World" and "Israel is stealing everything" argument is the EXACT reason these people haven't excelled inANYTHING.