FREE Palestine! END the Occupation! STOP the Bombings! EDIT: BEGIN THE BOYCOTTS! PLEASE READ

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Do you think that those kids want to be there? Do you know how stressful it is for all recruits in the IDF knowing that any day a major war can break out and death is that much closer.
That's not even taking into account that life in the IDF is not particularly fun to begin with.

I'm not pulling this out of my %@%. I've heard it from every single Israeli that I know who has served or is serving in the IDF (and that includes Family).

It's not as simple as they 'have guns and go on power trips". That may be correct for a small percentage but not for most.
They have orders to keep the checkpoint under control. It's 5 or 6 of them and thousands of angry (rightfully so) Palestinians. They have orders to only let through a certain amount and only for specific reasons. Of course, those that are not let through get angry at the soldiers. However, are the soldiers really to blame? Do they set the policy?
Even if the soldiers tried to explain the situation the Palestinians don't want to hear and that's understandable. What's also understandable is that these young kids are under stress and take that out on those who are angry at them. They have superiors yelling at them constantly. They have Palestinians yelling at them. Who do you think they're going to take it out on?

That actually reminds me of one time when I went over there and a family member was like. "You know. Most foreign Jews who come here think that if they get in trouble the police will take it easy on them because we're all Jews". Then he started chuckling.

It's just a complicated situation over there.
As long as both sides want what they currently are asking for then there is no solution. One side will have to take much less than they're hoping for. That's the only way to solve this conflict.
Neither side is ready accept such a deal so they'll keep on fighting.

Not all of them are on power trips, but some are. You do make good points, also since they are forced to be in the army and it is mandatory for them.

Overall, it is the system of checkpoint that has to be fixed.

How it works though, it is purposely made to humiliate Palestinians and these young soldiers are used to do that job.

They're not there to humiliate Palestinians. They have that effect but that's not their purpose.
Checkpoints are historically a military tactic used in active war zones. In this case they are being applied on a foreign population for a prolonged period oftime. Yes, it is horrible and becomes counterproductive after a short period of time. However, there aren't many other solutions. Until this conflict isresolved there will be Palestinians who want to inflict pain on Israeli's (just as Israeli's inflict pain on Palestinians) so Israeli's have toguard against that. It's only rational.
Israel is building a wall and they get %!*% for that too. It really is just very complicated over there.

To be honest, on the Palestinian side it's going to have to take a leader with the balls to say "Look, if we we want a better life than we'regoing to have to take a lot less than we want. A lot of you may not like it but it has to be done."
It's obvious why there is no such leader because it's much easier to have an enemy to scapegoat than to shoulder the responsibility of building aviable society in a land that offers very few resources to help that process along.
Same goes for Israel. In the last few decades Israel has become increasingly corrupt but the political establishment always has an out; the Arabs, our enemy! Alot of Israeli's though are getting tired of that shtick too. Especially knowing that their nation has a modern nuclear arsenal.

In this specific case few Israeli's have sympathy for Hamas for obvious reasons. The vast majority do support the government in this action and rightfullyso.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT


You posted pictures of Israeli's and guns. Israelis are to go into the military once they turn 18 years of age to protect the state of Israel, how can you compare the two? Do you hear about Israeli children going into markets and busses and blowing themselves up?

On top of it, you posted pictures of Orthodox Jews who if anything would agree with everything you are talking about as far as there shouldn't be an established "Jewish Homeland" until the Messiah comes. Nice try, though.

I forgot, the last pic you posted was of a Jewish holiday called Purim (which is like Halloween, look at the boy wearing a Ape suit). As you can clearly see, one of the boys has a Ra'Ashan in his hand (its in pink) as a noise maker for everytime the name Haman is mentioned, which is also why you see "cap guns". From recognition of the book, they are reading out of the Megilla.

Google fail


You actually think that they go into the military to fight exclusively Palestinians? The Palestinians fight with "homemade" gadgets, there are other problems that face Israel other than fighting a small uneducated minority of the Palestinian population.

My best friend went to Israel/Palestine recently. It just infuriated her how you have these 18 year old kids at checkpoints with guns thinking they are tough just because they are in the army and carry guns. The way some of them shove, disrespect, and talk to Palestinians waiting for hours on end and taunt them for some power trip is disgusting. I watched this documentary called Checkpoint about the daily abuse Palestinians go through when they have to cross checkpoints. The way some of these immature kids behave because they have guns is sickening.

Are you that dense? Do terrorist wear name tags? Do terrorist wear uniforms? You actually think that Israeli military are going to let Palestinians coming from their settlements into Israeli settlements without checking them?

Are there bad cops? Sure there are. Just like how you say I'm generalizing, you are doing the same.

So your point is just that they are Orthodox Jews? Are you kidding me? This kind of indoctrination is present in someJewish families, orthodox or not. You are an example of it yourself.

Ok, I mis-read about the last pic then. But as for the other pics, how are they different than the pics you showed with Palestinian kids from radical type offamilies parading around with guns? I have family in the West Bank and I can guarantee you their children never paraded around guns in the same manner in thosepics. You generalized it as it is that most Palestinians do this, when it is not. So I retaliated in showing you YOUR logic, even though I pointed out it ispresent in both sides and it does not mean it is a generalization of all Jewish families, unlike you who paints Palestinians as savages and uncivilized and whohave no love for their children.

Hun, I am not generalizing. You see how I always say "some", and do not imply that it is all just like you do. You are theone that started this kind of argument implying Palestinians are a culture filled with hate, making radical and misconceptualized generalizations. I retortedback to you showing your logic and telling you how this is also present on the Jewish side (despite that it means not all are like that). But then again, yougo back to make exceptions if it is present on the Jewish side.

Again, as for some second statement, Palestinians do not have an official army, so then by what means can they fight back with American sponsored and fundedartillery and weapons? They create military factions.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa


They're not there to humiliate Palestinians. They have that effect but that's not their purpose.
Checkpoints are historically a military tactic used in active war zones. In this case they are being applied on a foreign population for a prolonged period of time. Yes, it is horrible and becomes counterproductive after a short period of time. However, there aren't many other solutions. Until this conflict is resolved there will be Palestinians who want to inflict pain on Israeli's (just as Israeli's inflict pain on Palestinians) so Israeli's have to guard against that. It's only rational.
Israel is building a wall and they get %!*% for that too. It really is just very complicated over there.

To be honest, on the Palestinian side it's going to have to take a leader with the balls to say "Look, if we we want a better life than we're going to have to take a lot less than we want. A lot of you may not like it but it has to be done."
It's obvious why there is no such leader because it's much easier to have an enemy to scapegoat than to shoulder the responsibility of building a viable society in a land that offers very few resources to help that process along.
Same goes for Israel. In the last few decades Israel has become increasingly corrupt but the political establishment always has an out; the Arabs, our enemy! A lot of Israeli's though are getting tired of that shtick too.

Although few Israeli's have sympathy for Hamas for obvious reasons. The vast majority do support the government in this action and rightfully so in this case.

I share a different opinion about chekpoints. But yeah, I get what you mean in some instances.

It takes two to tango and it will have to take leaders from both sides to compromise while both sides are just wanting to have it their way and get nothingless than what they ask. However, in the end, to achieve peace, they will both have to get less than what they envision.

See, you are maybe more pro-Israeli, but I like your approach in the way you argue, it is done in an eloquent and respectful manner. I might not see eye to eyeor agree with what you say, but it is a challenge and only enlightens me and educates me when I read more about how the other side thinks and views certainissues. It is through dialogue and diplomacy how peace can be attained.

So, thank you for being respectful and well versed in your posts.

 

[callhimar]

They're not there to humiliate Palestinians. They have that effect but that's not their purpose.
Checkpoints are historically a military tactic used in active war zones. In this case they are being applied on a foreign population for a prolonged period of time. Yes, it is horrible and becomes counterproductive after a short period of time. However, there aren't many other solutions. Until this conflict is resolved there will be Palestinians who want to inflict pain on Israeli's (just as Israeli's inflict pain on Palestinians) so Israeli's have to guard against that. It's only rational.
Israel is building a wall and they get %!*% for that too. It really is just very complicated over there.

To be honest, on the Palestinian side it's going to have to take a leader with the balls to say "Look, if we we want a better life than we're going to have to take a lot less than we want. A lot of you may not like it but it has to be done."
It's obvious why there is no such leader because it's much easier to have an enemy to scapegoat than to shoulder the responsibility of building a viable society in a land that offers very few resources to help that process along.
Same goes for Israel. In the last few decades Israel has become increasingly corrupt but the political establishment always has an out; the Arabs, our enemy! A lot of Israeli's though are getting tired of that shtick too. Especially knowing that their nation has a modern nuclear arsenal.

In this specific case few Israeli's have sympathy for Hamas for obvious reasons. The vast majority do support the government in this action and rightfully so.
They don't have to have that effect though. Many people feel that the military checkpoints don't really do anything except burden theinnocent Palestinian people. If a suicide bomber really wants to get inside Israel, they can simply take a much, much longer route around the checkpoint. Itmay put them miles out of their way, but if the cause is that important for them, they'll do it anyway.

The wall is a completely different story. I honestly cannot see any way for anyone to defend it. It just shows that Israel is trying to establish permanentborders so that it solidified what is theres and what is not.

Both sides need to take less, thats what compromise is all about, and the Israeli's need a strong leader to be the bigger man and give something up to thePalestinian people. There needs to be a strong mediator as well so the talks do not get too one sided and the process is fair to everyone.

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Are you that young? Do you not know you Anwar Sadat is?


What about those massercres? They were carried out by Lebanese militias.

Stop blaming the Israelis. Why dont you point out the PLO was using Southen Lebanon to bomb Israel and were kicked out the newly elected Lebanese Gov't. Nobody wants these jokers in their country.


Like I said. Still, nothing being posted is legitimate. Still blaming the Israelis.

The "Palestinian versus the World" and "Israel is stealing everything" argument is the EXACT reason these people haven't excelled in ANYTHING.

What about Anwar ?

Doesn't change anything. Mubarak is a pawn of and the U.S has him and other Arab leaders by their necks thanks to funding and arms.

You are an idiot if you really believe the Sabra and Shatila massacres were conducted by Lebanese militias, go do your homework kid.

And yes, it is Palestinans vs the world, and I have shown why in my past posts. All you can say is blah blah "nothing legitimate posted" blah blah

Go read the U.N resolutions yourself, your Isreali bias has you completely blinded and it is sad.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

They're not there to humiliate Palestinians. They have that effect but that's not their purpose.
Checkpoints are historically a military tactic used in active war zones. In this case they are being applied on a foreign population for a prolonged period of time. Yes, it is horrible and becomes counterproductive after a short period of time. However, there aren't many other solutions. Until this conflict is resolved there will be Palestinians who want to inflict pain on Israeli's (just as Israeli's inflict pain on Palestinians) so Israeli's have to guard against that. It's only rational.
Israel is building a wall and they get %!*% for that too. It really is just very complicated over there.

To be honest, on the Palestinian side it's going to have to take a leader with the balls to say "Look, if we we want a better life than we're going to have to take a lot less than we want. A lot of you may not like it but it has to be done."
It's obvious why there is no such leader because it's much easier to have an enemy to scapegoat than to shoulder the responsibility of building a viable society in a land that offers very few resources to help that process along.
Same goes for Israel. In the last few decades Israel has become increasingly corrupt but the political establishment always has an out; the Arabs, our enemy! A lot of Israeli's though are getting tired of that shtick too. Especially knowing that their nation has a modern nuclear arsenal.

In this specific case few Israeli's have sympathy for Hamas for obvious reasons. The vast majority do support the government in this action and rightfully so.

They don't have to have that effect though. Many people feel that the military checkpoints don't really do anything except burden the innocent Palestinian people. If a suicide bomber really wants to get inside Israel, they can simply take a much, much longer route around the checkpoint. It may put them miles out of their way, but if the cause is that important for them, they'll do it anyway.

The wall is a completely different story. I honestly cannot see any way for anyone to defend it. It just shows that Israel is trying to establish permanent borders so that it solidified what is theres and what is not.

Both sides need to take less, thats what compromise is all about, and the Israeli's need a strong leader to be the bigger man and give something up to the Palestinian people. There needs to be a strong mediator as well so the talks do not get too one sided and the process is fair to everyone.



That's precisely the effect they want ti to have. The longer the route the militant has to take the better the chance of catching him/her.

Both sides cannot compromise because both sides have fought far to hard for far too long. The only reason that I put the onus on the Palestinians is because,in essence, 'beggars can't be choosers'.
Israel does have the upper hand and has paid a large price for attaining that position over the years. It has no overwhelming incentive to give up much morethan they're willing too.

If my fellow Jews were in the position of the Palestinians I would be telling them the same thing.
It's better to have something than nothing.

 

[callhimar]

That's precisely the effect they want ti to have. The longer the route the militant has to take the better the chance of catching him/her.
Not really, I think thats more a reason for the wall. Most of the time suicide bombers don't get caught going around the checkpoint, hence intimes of fighting there are so many carried out successfully.

I understand what you mean, but I can't agree with just because Israel having the upper hand then they should be treated differently. Somewhere, someIsraeli leader has to understand that the illegal occupation of land that does not belong to Israel is wrong.

If we learn anything from history, its that negotiations should be fair to both parties. Almost all negotiations that favor one people end up failing, take thenegotiations after World War I. Germany was completely shut out and had no control over their own destiny, and for this, Hitler had an opening to do what hedid. After World War II however, things were much more even handed, things were handled differently and the powers helped rebuild Germany.

 

[tbone95860]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Are you that young? Do you not know you Anwar Sadat is?
What about those massercres? They were carried out by Lebanese militias.

Stop blaming the Israelis. Why dont you point out the PLO was using Southen Lebanon to bomb Israel and were kicked out the newly elected Lebanese Gov't. Nobody wants these jokers in their country.
Like I said. Still, nothing being posted is legitimate. Still blaming the Israelis.
The "Palestinian versus the World" and "Israel is stealing everything" argument is the EXACT reason these people haven't excelled in ANYTHING.

What about Anwar ?
Doesn't change anything. Mubarak is a pawn of and the U.S has him and other Arab leaders by their necks thanks to funding and arms.
You are an idiot if you really believe the Sabra and Shatila massacres were conducted by Lebanese militias, go do your homework kid.
And yes, it is Palestinans vs the world, and I have shown why in my past posts. All you can say is blah blah "nothing legitimate posted" blah blah
Go read the U.N resolutions yourself, your Isreali bias has you completely blinded and it is sad.
Yeah because you have no bias

Please.

 

[icey heat]

They shouldn't have launched rockets over that fence if they didn't want a fight knowing they are out gunned.

They should've just renewed the truce and continue to live in some peace. I know they didn't have much to live on before, but it is better than livingon nothing, with bombs dropping everywhere.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Here is a great article I found that sums up the whole situation in Gaza up to this point...Please read and comment it if you have the time...

[h2]Johann Hari[/h2]
Columnist, London Independent

Posted December 28, 2008 | 07:23 PM (EST)

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[h1]The True Story Behind This War is Not the One Israel is Telling

[/h1]
The world isn't just watching the Israeli government commit a crime in Gaza; we are watching it self-harm. This morning, and tomorrow morning, and every morning until this punishment-beating ends, the young people of the Gaza Strip are going to be more filled with hate, and more determined to fight back, with stones or suicide-vests or rockets. Israel's leaders have convinced themselves the harder you beat the Palestinians, the softer they will become. But when this is over, the rage against Israelis will have hardened, and the same old compromises will still be waiting by the roadside of history, untended and unmade.

To understand how frightening it is to be a Gazan this morning, you need to have stood in that small slab of concrete by the Mediterranean and smelled the claustrophobia. The Gaza Strip is smaller than the Isle of Wight, but it is crammed with 1.5 million people who can never leave. They live out their lives on top of each other in vast sagging tower blocks, jobless and hungry. From the top floor, you can often see the borders of their world: the Mediterranean Sea, and the Israeli barbed wire. When bombs begin to fall - as are do now with more deadly force than on any day since 1967 - there is nowhere to hide.

There will now be a war over the story of this war. The Israeli government says: we withdrew from Gaza in 2005, and in return we got Hamas and Qassam rockets being rained on our cities. Some 16 civilians have been murdered. How many more are we supposed to sacrifice? It is a plausible narrative, and there are shards of truth in it - but it is also filled with holes. If we want to understand the reality and really stop the rockets, we need to rewind a few years, and view the runway to this war dispassionately.

The Israeli government did indeed withdraw from the Gaza Strip in 2005 - in order to be able to intensify control of the West Bank. Ariel Sharon's senior advisor Dov Weisglass was unequivocal about this, explaining: "The disengagement [from Gaza] is actually formaldehyde. It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that's necessary so that there will not be a political process with the Palestinians... Effectively, this whole package that is called the Palestinian state has been removed from our agenda indefinitely."

Ordinary Palestinians were horrified by this, and by the fetid corruption of their own Fatah leaders - so they voted for Hamas. It certainly wouldn't have been my choice - an Islamist party is antithetical to all my convictions - but we have to be honest. It was a free and democratic election, and it was not a rejection of a two-state solution. The most detailed polling of Palestinians, by the University of Maryland, found that 72 percent want a two-state solution on the 1967 borders, while fewer than 20 percent want to reclaim the whole of historic Palestine. So, partly in response to this pressure, Hamas offered Israel a long ceasefire and a de facto acceptance of two states, if only Israel would return to its legal borders.

Rather than seize this opportunity and test their sincerity, the Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian population. They announced they were blockading the Gaza Strip in order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. They surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything out. They let in a small trickle of food, fuel and medicine - but not enough for survival.

Weisglass quipped the Gazans were being "put on a diet." According to Oxfam, this November only 137 trucks of food were allowed into Gaza this November - to feed 1.5 million people. The UN says poverty has reached an "unprecedented level." When I was last in besieged Gaza, I saw hospitals turning away the sick because their machinery and medicine was running out. I met hungry children stumbling around the streets, scavenging for food.

It was in this context - under collective punishment designed to topple a democracy - that some forces within Gaza did something immoral: they fired Qassam rockets indiscriminately at Israeli cities. These rockets have killed 16 ordinary Israeli citizens. This is abhorrent: targeting civilians is always murder. But it is hypocritical for the Israeli government to claim now to speak out for the safety of civilians when they have been terrorising civilians as a matter of state policy.

European and American governments are responding with a lop-sidedness that ignores these realities. They say that Israel cannot be expected to negotiate under rocket-fire, but they demand the Palestinians do so under siege in Gaza and violent military occupation in the West Bank.

Before it falls down the memory hole, we should remember that last week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable compromises. Don't take my word for it. According to the Israeli press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security services Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on the 23rd] that Hamas is interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms." Diskin explained Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet - high with election-fever, and eager to appear tough - rejected these terms.

The core of the situation has been starkly laid out by Ephraim Halevy, the former head of Mossad. He says that while Hamas - like much of the Israeli right - dreams of driving their opponents away, "they have recognized this ideological goal is not attainable, and will not be in the foreseeable future." Instead, "they are ready and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the temporary borders of 1967." They are aware this means they "will have to adopt a path that could lead them far from their original goals" - and towards a long-term peace based on compromise. The rejectionists on both sides - from Mahmoud Ahmadinejadh to Bibi Netanyahu - would then be marginalised. It is the only path that could yet end in peace - but it is the Israeli government who refused to choose it. Halevy explains: "Israel, for reasons of its own, did not want to turn the ceasefire into the start of a diplomatic process with Hamas."

Why would Israel act this way? The Israeli government wants peace, but only one imposed on its own terms, based on the acceptance of defeat by the Palestinians. It means they can keep the slabs of the West Bank on 'their' side of the wall. It means they keep the largest settlements, and control of the water supply. And it means a divided Palestine, with responsibility for Gaza hived off to Egypt, and the broken-up West Bank standing alone. Negotiations threaten this vision: they would require Israel to give up more than it wants to. But an imposed peace will be no peace at all: it will not stop the rockets or the rage. For real safety, Israel will have to talk to the people it is blockading and bombing today - and compromise with them.

The sound of Gaza burning should be drowned out by the words of the Israeli writer Larry Derfner. He says: "Israel's war with Gaza has to be the most one-sided on earth.... If the point is to end it, or at least begin to end it, the ball is not in Hamas' court - it's in ours."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-true-story-behind-thi_b_153825.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost...-behind-thi_b_153825.html

 

[yoda]

Not trying to get into all this or anything..But stuff like this is why I don't believe in ANY religion.

It's a shame that people with such rich histories cannot live in complete peace. And it's due to their respective religions.

I wish the Palestinians and Israelis can end this without anymore bloodshed.

 

[fede dpt]

What about Anwar ?

Doesn't change anything. Mubarak is a pawn of and the U.S has him and other Arab leaders by their necks thanks to funding and arms.

You are an idiot if you really believe the Sabra and Shatila massacres were conducted by Lebanese militias, go do your homework kid.

And yes, it is Palestinans vs the world, and I have shown why in my past posts. All you can say is blah blah "nothing legitimate posted" blah blah

Go read the U.N resolutions yourself, your Isreali bias has you completely blinded and it is sad.


What about Anwar? He only started the Yom Kippour War.

Do my homework? Look up the Kataeb Party, Elie Hobieka, and theLebanese Christian Phalangist.

Now go do your homework, clown.


I'm just going to flat out ask why Pro-Palestinians feel that they are entitled to the land? At no point and time did the Palestinian people have controlof the land.

I honestly have to feel sorry for the Palestinian people. For reasons that they are being played like chess by Iran, which ironically enough was invented bythe Persians. The Iranians are funding this whole thing, like I said earlier, none of the Arab leader care about the Palestinians. Iran and Syria are using thePalestinians to take care of a problem they don't have the man power to do.


The only reason why Hamas broke the cease-fire was because the have elections coming up and Hamas knows that they wont do as well as they did a couple yearsback and they are trying to gather support.

Most of the more technological rockets the Palestinians are getting in Gaza are through Underground Tunnels from Egypt and those rockets are made by Russia andChina. Go figure.

Do some research and follow the money trail. It's no secret that Iran, Syria and the Saudis along with propaganda things in Western Europe and in the U.S.support this.

To prove my point that the Palestinians Gov't don't care, it was reported that the main leaders of Hamas haven't even been in Israel in the pastweek.


The United Nations? You serious? The United Nations is probably the most Anti-Jew organizations on the planet. The U.N. has 52 Muslim Nations associated in itagainst and 1 Jewish Nation.

Considering most of them are OIL PRODUCING countries, no wonder why there are SO MANY resolutions against lil 'ol Israel.

Son, you lost all credibility.

Like I said, give me something credible. You're not giving anything legitimate, all your doing is crying.


Not once have you mentioned the Partition of 1947. Look at those maps, both sides had equal land. The great Palestinian leader Arafat said "no" theygo to war and the Palestinians get wiped out and get nothing.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-true-story-behind-thi_b_153825.html

http://www.huffingtonpost...-behind-thi_b_153825.html


Huffington Post, huh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-true-story-behind-thi_b_153825.html

 

[rap sizzle]

Here are some photos I took of the rally that took place in dowtown Toronto:

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

What about Anwar ?

Doesn't change anything. Mubarak is a pawn of and the U.S has him and other Arab leaders by their necks thanks to funding and arms.

You are an idiot if you really believe the Sabra and Shatila massacres were conducted by Lebanese militias, go do your homework kid.

And yes, it is Palestinans vs the world, and I have shown why in my past posts. All you can say is blah blah "nothing legitimate posted" blah blah

Go read the U.N resolutions yourself, your Isreali bias has you completely blinded and it is sad.

What about Anwar? He only started the Yom Kippour War.

Do my homework? Look up the Kataeb Party, Elie Hobieka, and the Lebanese Christian Phalangist.

Now go do your homework, clown.


I'm just going to flat out ask why Pro-Palestinians feel that they are entitled to the land? At no point and time did the Palestinian people have control of the land.

I honestly have to feel sorry for the Palestinian people. For reasons that they are being played like chess by Iran, which ironically enough was invented by the Persians. The Iranians are funding this whole thing, like I said earlier, none of the Arab leader care about the Palestinians. Iran and Syria are using the Palestinians to take care of a problem they don't have the man power to do.


The only reason why Hamas broke the cease-fire was because the have elections coming up and Hamas knows that they wont do as well as they did a couple years back and they are trying to gather support.

Most of the more technological rockets the Palestinians are getting in Gaza are through Underground Tunnels from Egypt and those rockets are made by Russia and China. Go figure.

Do some research and follow the money trail. It's no secret that Iran, Syria and the Saudis along with propaganda things in Western Europe and in the U.S. support this.

To prove my point that the Palestinians Gov't don't care, it was reported that the main leaders of Hamas haven't even been in Israel in the past week.


The United Nations? You serious? The United Nations is probably the most Anti-Jew organizations on the planet. The U.N. has 52 Muslim Nations associated in it against and 1 Jewish Nation.

Considering most of them are OIL PRODUCING countries, no wonder why there are SO MANY resolutions against lil 'ol Israel.

Son, you lost all credibility.

Like I said, give me something credible. You're not giving anything legitimate, all your doing is crying.


Not once have you mentioned the Partition of 1947. Look at those maps, both sides had equal land. The great Palestinian leader Arafat said "no" they go to war and the Palestinians get wiped out and get nothing.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-true-story-behind-thi_b_153825.html

http://www.huffingtonpost...-behind-thi_b_153825.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost...-behind-thi_b_153825.html


Huffington Post, huh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-true-story-behind-thi_b_153825.html



Fail.

You basically made a long post that stated nothing.

Anwar has nothing to do with this, calling the U.N anti-Jew is border-line ******ed, and you have not yet done your homework assignment to find that Israel wasresponsible for both the Sabre and Shatila massacres, and these 2 are only a small blot on the huge record of terrorist and illegal actions by your government.

"clown"

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

What about Anwar ?

Doesn't change anything. Mubarak is a pawn of and the U.S has him and other Arab leaders by their necks thanks to funding and arms.

You are an idiot if you really believe the Sabra and Shatila massacres were conducted by Lebanese militias, go do your homework kid.

And yes, it is Palestinans vs the world, and I have shown why in my past posts. All you can say is blah blah "nothing legitimate posted" blah blah

Go read the U.N resolutions yourself, your Isreali bias has you completely blinded and it is sad.

What about Anwar? He only started the Yom Kippour War.

Do my homework? Look up the Kataeb Party, Elie Hobieka, and the Lebanese Christian Phalangist.

Now go do your homework, clown.


I'm just going to flat out ask why Pro-Palestinians feel that they are entitled to the land? At no point and time did the Palestinian people have control of the land.

I honestly have to feel sorry for the Palestinian people. For reasons that they are being played like chess by Iran, which ironically enough was invented by the Persians. The Iranians are funding this whole thing, like I said earlier, none of the Arab leader care about the Palestinians. Iran and Syria are using the Palestinians to take care of a problem they don't have the man power to do.


The only reason why Hamas broke the cease-fire was because the have elections coming up and Hamas knows that they wont do as well as they did a couple years back and they are trying to gather support.

Most of the more technological rockets the Palestinians are getting in Gaza are through Underground Tunnels from Egypt and those rockets are made by Russia and China. Go figure.

Do some research and follow the money trail. It's no secret that Iran, Syria and the Saudis along with propaganda things in Western Europe and in the U.S. support this.

To prove my point that the Palestinians Gov't don't care, it was reported that the main leaders of Hamas haven't even been in Israel in the past week.


The United Nations? You serious? The United Nations is probably the most Anti-Jew organizations on the planet. The U.N. has 52 Muslim Nations associated in it against and 1 Jewish Nation.

Considering most of them are OIL PRODUCING countries, no wonder why there are SO MANY resolutions against lil 'ol Israel.

Son, you lost all credibility.

Like I said, give me something credible. You're not giving anything legitimate, all your doing is crying.


Not once have you mentioned the Partition of 1947. Look at those maps, both sides had equal land. The great Palestinian leader Arafat said "no" they go to war and the Palestinians get wiped out and get nothing.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-true-story-behind-thi_b_153825.html

http://www.huffingtonpost...-behind-thi_b_153825.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost...-behind-thi_b_153825.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost...-behind-thi_b_153825.html

Huffington Post, huh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-true-story-behind-thi_b_153825.html



Fail.

You basically made a long post that stated nothing.

Anwar has nothing to do with this, calling the U.N anti-Jew is border-line ******ed, and you have not yet done your homework assignment to find that Israel was responsible for both the Sabre and Shatila massacres, and these 2 are only a small blot on the huge record of terrorist and illegal actions by your government.

"clown"

On 16 September 1982, Elie Hobeika led the massacre of up to 2,000 Palestinian refugees in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, while the periphery of the camps were under the control of the Israeli army.

[/ MidEastBeast ] Well, see the Israelis let them! [/ MidEastBeast]

Blaming Israel again...

I did my homework, I got an A. Thanks!

 

[mideastbeast]

^If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

Camp was completely surrounded by Israeli tanks and troops, and there is tons of evidence that it was meticulously planned by Israel.

5 second wikipedia search = F ail

"Elie Hobeika publicly declared his intention to testify against Ariel Sharon about his involvement in the Sabra and Shatila massacre in a Belgiancourt's trial for crimes against humanity" - Wiki

Of course, he was assasinated by Mossad before that happened. Step your knowledge up kid.

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

^If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

Camp was completely surrounded by Israeli tanks and troops, and there is tons of evidence that it was meticulously planned by Israel.

5 second wikipedia search = F ail

I actually read books, son. I do my own independent objective research, I'm not dictated by Mass Media. Of course I did a 5 second search on Wiki to provemy point, do you want me to give you books I have actually read on that whole ordeal?


Don't be mad because I know more about your own people than you do.

 

[mideastbeast]

Yea, you know a lot more than me...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/W.../gaza.aid.boat/index.html

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

^If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

Camp was completely surrounded by Israeli tanks and troops, and there is tons of evidence that it was meticulously planned by Israel.

5 second wikipedia search = F ail

"Elie Hobeika publicly declared his intention to testify against Ariel Sharon about his involvement in the Sabra and Shatila massacre in a Belgian court's trial for crimes against humanity" - Wiki

Of course, he was assasinated by Mossad before that happened. Step your knowledge up kid.

Yeah of course. YOU would say that and blame the Israeli's for doing that. Let's not remember who had control and major influence of Lebanon for aloooooooooong time. Hmmmmm Syria? Hobieka was a Christian, Syria is Muslim controlled and had control of Lebanon for a while Hezbollah gained support that wasfunded by Syria and Iran.

Your coming at me with gibberish.

Just stop.

 

[webnoize]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Still, there is no information presented that the Palestinians are entitled to that land. Why?

 

[mideastbeast]

^Ok, it must have been a coincidence that he was going to testify just a short period before he was killed. Most experts agree that Syria doesn't have thecapabilities to pull off the type of professional assassinations that are common in Lebanon.

Regardless of who killed him, Israel was FAR more involved in those massacres than you would like to believe.

Even if you remove those records, Israel still has exponentially more innocent blood on their hands than vice-versa.

Let's not forget the 250 unarmed Egyptian POW's killed by Israel in Sinai, an obvious war-crime that has gone ignored.

 

[chitown85]

Hamas won't stop until Israel is wiped off the face of the earth. The Palestinians are clowns being used by all other Arab countries and it is so obvious.Israel has repeatedly won wars for that land and still compromise it. Arafat was offered a great deal by israel and that greedy lying bastard wanted more.There will never be peace because the arabs want israel destroyed and it just won't happen. Israelis are incredibly smart and tough people who have to showno weakness and must retaliate much harder because they are a small sliver of a country surrounded by enemies who want them destroyed.If Israel becomes thenice humanitarians everybody wants them to be they eventually won't have a country anymore. Only the strong survive and maybe the Palestinians shouldconcentrate on themselves rather than being bitter about being weak and not progressing.

 

[throwedindagame]

Originally Posted by ReliantJ

Apparently protecting your country includes bombing a ship of medical supplies

 

[mideastbeast]

and they want us to believe that their military vessel just "accidentally" bumped into it. How is that even possible ?

 

[devanisgee]

Oh, Organized Religion, up to its predictable old tom-foolery again, I see...