FREE Palestine! END the Occupation! STOP the Bombings! EDIT: BEGIN THE BOYCOTTS! PLEASE READ

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by repinqueens

It's funny that my "blanket statements" are correct

you wanna talk about ignoring comments when every single person on the palestinian side can't answer fade's question

what actual RIGHT do the palestinians have to the land.... as opposed to ottomans, Turks, or jews etc.


if a group of people were firing rockets into just about ANY European country, and that country went to war with those firing the rockets, they wouldn't have to be politically correct about what they were doing and they wouldn't be criticized
Click to expand...


The Palestinians are the ones who have the right to the land because they've been living there until they were kicked out of their homes. The indigenous Jews who always lived in Palestine in peace also have the right to the land, as do the Palestinian Christians. The zionists occupiers who came to the land early in the 20th century and took it from others don't have the right to the land.
Click to expand...
the only group of humans that has any kind of right to land period, are those that have the might to hold and maintain it over the course of agiven period in history. its been that way for the entire history of mankind. humans are arrogant that way.
 
^^^that is a truthful statement.........might makes right has been the way of seeing who is "entitled to what" for nearly 2000 years, and probablyfor the remainder of time .....sad but true...
 
Originally Posted by paliplaya2010

Originally Posted by paliplaya2010

lets use common sense guys. almost 400 dead in gaza, how many died in Israel? 3 maybe 4? lets look at the size of gaza and the size of israel and who backs each of them. Israel is fully backed by usa and gaza has who? Hamas? ill let yall make your own judgment on this one
Click to expand...

this guy has a good point
Click to expand...

eyes.gif
indifferent.gif
nerd.gif
tired.gif
And nobody is going to call him out?
grin.gif
grin.gif
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted by mr delorean

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by repinqueens

It's funny that my "blanket statements" are correct

you wanna talk about ignoring comments when every single person on the palestinian side can't answer fade's question

what actual RIGHT do the palestinians have to the land.... as opposed to ottomans, Turks, or jews etc.


if a group of people were firing rockets into just about ANY European country, and that country went to war with those firing the rockets, they wouldn't have to be politically correct about what they were doing and they wouldn't be criticized
Click to expand...


The Palestinians are the ones who have the right to the land because they've been living there until they were kicked out of their homes. The indigenous Jews who always lived in Palestine in peace also have the right to the land, as do the Palestinian Christians. The zionists occupiers who came to the land early in the 20th century and took it from others don't have the right to the land.
Click to expand...
the only group of humans that has any kind of right to land period, are those that have the might to hold and maintain it over the course of a given period in history. its been that way for the entire history of mankind. humans are arrogant that way.
Click to expand...


/thread.
 
Where are the mods??? Get this *+%% off here. I come to NikeTalk for sneakers and sometimes a laugh, not to hear politics and hatred spewed forth by those whothink they know how the world works and who is right or wrong.
 
Originally Posted by Pimpin Penguin

Where are the mods??? Get this *+%% off here. I come to NikeTalk for sneakers and sometimes a laugh, not to hear politics and hatred spewed forth by those who think they know how the world works and who is right or wrong.
Click to expand...


Last time I checked this is the general forum where one can create threads about whatever as long as it doesn't violate the roc, if you don't want toread it don't click on it.
 
Originally Posted by Pimpin Penguin

Where are the mods??? Get this *+%% off here. I come to NikeTalk for sneakers and sometimes a laugh, not to hear politics and hatred spewed forth by those who think they know how the world works and who is right or wrong.
Click to expand...

So intelligent conversation and debate should be done away with on NikeTalk?
 
Israeli Ground Forces Push Into Gaza

JERUSALEM - Israel moved its troops into Gaza starting a ground offensive eight days after launching an airstrike campaign in efforts to end rocket attacks from Hamas militants.

"We have just a short while ago launched the second stage," a spokeswoman for Israel Defense Forces Maj. Avital Leibovich, said in an interview broadcast on CNN.

She said that troops are targeting areas responsible for the launching of rockets into Israel, as well as tunnels, bunkers, and training facilities - "everything that is affiliated with Hamas is a legitimate target," Major Leibovich said.

"We have many, many targets, and therefore to my estimate it's going to be a lengthy operation," she added, with specifying how long the ground war could last.

Ms. Leibovich said the Israel Defense Forces were avoiding targeting civilians and were trying to give people leaflets and messages warning of the strikes. "Hamas is not putting any efforts to avoid targeting civilian deaths," she said.

"For us, people that don't recognize the right for Israel to exist, terrorists which train day after day and try to target as many Israeli civilians as possible, are for us a legitimate target for self defense."

Saeb Erakat, a Palestinian negotiator, criticized the action in an interview on CNN. "This will undermine all efforts being exerted to revive hope in the region. And at the end of the day, who are you fighting? What are you trying to achieve? We don't have an army. We don't have a navy. We don't have an air force. We have called upon Israel and everybody to help the Egyptians in order to sustain the cease-fire in Gaza. because this problem requires political solutions, not military solutions."

The ground offensive had been building for days, with tanks and troops waiting at the border.

Before the move into Gaza began, Israeli planes pounded Hamas targets in Gaza on Saturday while Israel allowed hundreds of foreigners, many of them married to Palestinians, to leave the enclave.

Tensions spread to the West Bank and East Jerusalem, where Palestinian anger at reports of civilian casualties in Gaza seemed to be translating into at least a temporary increase in popular sympathy for Hamas.

Israel has vowed to press its offensive until there is no more rocket fire out of Gaza; its troops and tanks remained along the border, poised for a possible ground invasion.

The United Nations special coordinator for the Middle East, Robert Serry, told reporters on Friday that he was deeply worried that Israel would decide to move into Gaza.

"We are gravely concerned about that prospect because that would just mean another cycle of violence and a further escalation of the conflict," he said. "This must stop. With Israeli tanks on Gaza's border, it is absolutely imperative now that we find an immediate and lasting way out to avoid an even deeper and deadlier conflict."

Israeli analysts and experts have said that any ground operation should be brief but powerful.

Alex Fishman, the military analyst of the popular daily newspaper Yediot Aharonot, wrote Friday, "Since the name of the game is killing and destruction, the ground operation has to be quick, with a lot of firepower at friction points with Hamas." He added, "The goal is to exact a high price in the early stages of the ground operation and to end it quickly."

Palestinian militants continued to launch salvos of rockets at southern Israel on Friday, with several hitting the coastal city of Ashkelon, lightly injuring two Israeli women there.

Israeli air and naval forces pummeled more bases of Hamas, the Islamic group that controls Gaza. The military said it hit the houses of several Hamas militants that also served as weapons depots as well as tunnels used for weapons smuggling and missile launching sites. Warplanes also bombed a mosque in Jabaliya, in northern Gaza. The military said that Hamas was using the mosque as a terrorist base and that it was storing rockets there.

It was the mosque where Nizar Rayyan, the senior Hamas militant leader killed in an Israeli strike on Thursday, used to preach. Mr. Rayyan's four wives, at least nine of his children and several neighbors were also killed when his home was bombed.
About 2,000 Gazans turned out for the funeral in Jabaliya on Friday. Speakers called for revenge as Israeli fighter jets swooped threateningly overhead.

It was the mosque where Nizar Rayyan, the senior Hamas militant leader killed in an Israeli strike on Thursday, used to preach. Mr. Rayyan's four wives, at least nine of his children and several neighbors were also killed when his home was bombed.

About 2,000 Gazans turned out for the funeral in Jabaliya on Friday. Speakers called for revenge as Israeli fighter jets swooped threateningly overhead.

With Hamas calling for Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem to make Friday a "day of wrath," a few thousand turned out in Ramallah, the administrative headquarters of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. In Israeli-controlled East Jerusalem, the police came out in force to prevent disturbances after noon prayers. Small riots broke out in some Arab neighborhoods around the city, but most were quickly dispersed. And in Hebron, protesters clashed with the Palestinian police, leaving at least 10 injured.

In Gaza, local residents went out to pray at mosques and to shop for essentials, but did not linger. Medical officials in Gaza said 430 Palestinians had been killed and some 2,200 wounded since the Israeli campaign began last Saturday. The casualty figures include many Hamas security personnel members, but the United Nations has estimated that a quarter of those killed were civilians.

Three Israeli civilians and one soldier have been killed in rocket attacks in the past week, as Hamas deployed its more advanced, longer-range projectiles capable of hitting Israeli cities more than 20 miles away.

Hundreds of spouses of Palestinians, including women from Russia, Romania, Ukraine and Western Europe, left Gaza on Friday with the help of diplomats from their countries.

Alla Semaks, a 34-year-old Ukrainian married to a Palestinian, and her four children were among around 300 people who came in buses to the Erez checkpoint in northern Gaza to cross into Israel. Her husband, Mohammed Atawneh, 36, was not leaving because he had only Palestinian identity papers, she said in a telephone interview.

"I want to come back when the situation allows it," she said. "I have nothing in Ukraine. My children are very afraid for their father. We fear there will be an Israeli ground offensive."

A Gaza teenager, Jawaher Hajji, who said she had lost two close relatives in the past week, described a scene of growing desperation in the enclave. "There is no water, no electricity, no medicine,"Jawaher, a 14-year-old who has United States citizenship, told The Associated Press. "It's hard to survive. Gaza is destroyed."

At the United Nations, officials moved beyond calls for an immediate cease-fire, saying that an international monitoring mechanism needed to be established in Gaza to prevent future outbreaks of violence. "We will need a monitoring mechanism if we do not want to repeat the mistakes of the past," said Mr. Serry, the Middle East envoy.

His comments were echoed by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. "We are working toward a cease-fire that would not allow a reestablishment of the status quo ante where Hamas can continue to launch rockets out of Gaza," she said in Washington. "It is obvious that that cease-fire should take place as soon as possible, but we need a cease-fire that is durable and sustainable."

Both Israel and the Western-backed Palestinian Authority have been working assiduously to subdue Hamas in the West Bank since the Islamic group took over Gaza in 2007.

But the events in Gaza and the gruesome images broadcast repeatedly by the Arabic television networks are stirring strong emotions among West Bank Palestinians, who are directing most of their anger at Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

The authority's security forces had been instructed to prevent any popular displays of support for Hamas and clashes with Israeli forces, by keeping protesters away from Israeli Army checkpoints and other flash points, leading some Palestinians to accuse the authority of colluding with Israel.

Muneer al-Zughair, a spokesman in Jerusalem for the families of Palestinian prisoners, said Hamas had been strengthened by what he called "the massacre" in Gaza. "People feel that they are the only ones who are doing something for the Palestinian people," he said.

At the entrance to the Shuafat refugee camp on the edge of Jerusalem, Palestinian youths burned tires and threw stones at an Israeli checkpoint where soldiers stood in full riot gear. A man from the camp, who identified himself only as Qassem, said: "Everyone is against what is happening in Gaza. The Israeli Army are the terrorists."

Many denounced the bombing of mosques and the deaths of civilians. "Let them go in on the ground and take out Hamas, but spare the children," said a taxi driver from the camp who identified himself by his first name, Yasir. The missiles from the air "do not differentiate," he said.

At a news briefing at the White House on Friday, the deputy press secretary, Gordon D. Johndroe, said Israel had a right to defend itself from the rocket attacks out of Gaza. But he added that Israel also needed to "avoid unnecessary civilian casualties," and to continue the flow into Gaza of humanitarian goods.
Click to expand...
 
Hundreds of spouses of Palestinians, including women from Russia, Romania, Ukraine and Western Europe, left Gaza on Friday with the help of diplomats from their countries.

Reminds me of Rwanda.
Click to expand...
 
I honestly don't understand how they plan on stopping the rocket and mortar attacks without either:

a) getting rid of Hamas leadership by detaining or killing them.
b) occupying Gaza yet again.

Either way, what is happening it not right. Hamas was elected by democratic process. I guess Israel just takes after the United States.
 
Haven't had a chance to read all these pages just got through them and FEDE dead ya self once again.. all the worlds problems can and should be blamed onfolks like yourself with your ridiculous ideologies and you using the palestinians as your scapegoat. PATHETIC
 
Yet again, Israel thinks this can be stopped by force. The longer they maintain this notion, the longer it takes to achieve peace. If anything this groundoffensive is going to cause much more violence in the long run, and by then the 20 or so rockets per day will be the least of Israel's problems.

A big
smh.gif
at the whole situation. RIP to the civilians.
 
The most ridiculous part about this, or most upsetting I should say is the respect for human life factor. You don't have to be from Israel or Palestine tocare about what is going on here. The whole 300:1 is so upsetting, you know to the Israeli military they feel the need to cause even more damage because wellthey lost a handful of people, they are not satisfied with even that ratio, for the simple fact they have 0 respect for any human living in Palestine.

Now the whole world know's Israel has USA's full support, though right now USA is just looking away as if nothing is even going on. This could all besettled by the USA forcing both sides to come to an agreement. And by forcing I mean telling Palestine stop or else, and telling Israel stop or you get cutoff. I think people seem to over look the amount of funds USA gives Israel. Now Israel likes the idea of having our support but having us look away, Do you allunderstand how crazy this could get if USA tapped out and just said go ahead settle it we don't care what happens to anyone involved? Palestinewouldn't even want the land back because Israel would be a gigantic hole. Do you think what Israel is doing is fair to a much weaker Palestine? Would youlike to see Iran/Syria/Iraq/Saudi/Lebanon/Palestine vs Ysrael? It will not be pretty, something has to give here man, something and soon. I have many Jewishand Arabic friends, and talking to either side is as if there are 2 completely different channels. Obviously neither side is 100% correct, we can blame that onmisinformation from the media, basically anything they report is believed and everyone is quick to take a side. All based on whatever the new's chooses toput on tv that specific night.

And for the )#*$_% that mentioned the IDF as in the Israel Defense Forces stating they are just defending their selves? Please dear god tell me you are joking.Did you watch the documentary The Gaza Strip? There is a scene where a British journalist is shot dead in Gaza Strip while filming for the documentary. Sodefense in your mind is shooting anything/anyone in sight? Was his pad/pen to dangerous? Please don't come into a serious thread just to add some crazynon-fact.
 
Propaganda at its finest.

Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Source: BBC.
[h1]Propaganda war: trusting what we see?[/h1]



Israel has tried to take the initiative in the propaganda war over Gaza but, in one important instance, its version has been seriously challenged.

The incident raises the question of how to interpret video taken from the air.

Israel released video of an air attack on 28 December, which appeared to show rockets being loaded onto a lorry. The truck and those close to it were then destroyed by a missile.


This was clear evidence, the Israelis said, of how accurate their strikes were and how well justified. A special unit it has set up to coordinate its informational plan put the video onto YouTube as part of its effort to use modern means of communications to get Israel's case across.

The YouTube video has a large caption on it saying "Grad missiles being loaded onto the Hamas vehicle." As of Saturday morning UK time, more than 260,000 people had watched it.

Different version

It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop.

This workshop had been damaged when a building next door was bombed by the Israelis and he was afraid of looters, he said.

The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem put Mr Sanur's account on its website, together with a photograph of burned out oxygen cylinders.

Mr Sanur said that eight people, one of them his son, had been killed. He subsequently told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz: "These were not Hamas, they were our children... They were not Grad missiles.".

The Israeli response was that the "materiel" was being taken from a site that had stored weapons. The video remains on You Tube.

But the incident shows how an apparently definitive piece of video can turn into something much more doubtful.

It is reminiscent of an event in the Nato war against Serbia over Kosovo in 1999. In that case, a video taken from the air seemed to show a military convoy which was then attacked.

On the ground however it was discovered that the "trucks" were in fact tractors towing cartloads of civilian refugees, many of whom were killed.

Israel effort

The Israeli propaganda effort is being directed to achieve two main aims.

The first is to justify the air attacks. The second is to show that there is no humanitarian calamity in Gaza.

Both these aims are intended to place Israel in a strong position internationally and to enable its diplomacy to act as an umbrella to fend off calls for a ceasefire while the military operation unfolds.

Israel has pursued the first aim by being very active in getting its story across that Hamas is to blame. The sight of Hamas rockets streaking into Israel has been helpful in this respect.

It has also allowed trucks in with food aid and has stressed that it will not let people starve, even if they go short.

Israel appears to think its efforts are working.

One of its spokespeople, who has regularly appeared on the international media, Major Avital Leibovich, said: "Quite a few outlets are very favourable to Israel."

Ban on foreign media

Israel has bolstered its approach by banning foreign correspondents from Gaza, despite a ruling from the Israeli Supreme Court.

The Arab television news channel Al Jazeera is operating there and its reports have been graphic and have affected opinion across the Arab world. The BBC also has its local bureau hard at work.

But the absence of reporters from major organisations has meant, for example, that Mr Samur's story has not been as widely told as it probably would have been, or his account subject to an on-the-spot examination.

Meanwhile Israel has received good coverage of the threats and damage to its own towns and communities.

Whether Israel retains any propaganda initiative is not all certain. Pictures of dead and wounded children have undermined its claim to pinpoint accuracy and the longer this goes on, the greater the potential for world public opinion to swing against it, with diplomatic pressure building for a cessation.

Its presentational problems would be hugely increased if it engaged in a ground operation, which would bring with it more pictures of death and destruction.

Update: several readers have e-mailed to ask whether I believe Hamas. One said I had "bought into" Hamas propaganda. Another that I should have dealt with Hamas' claims: "What's missing speaks volumes about your one-sidedness."

I do not believe anyone's "propaganda." We seek to verify all claims, from whatever source. One of the main claims in Gaza at the moment is the serious situation for the population. Having reported from Gaza many times over the years, I know how crowded parts of it are and how dependent the people are on food aid from the UN. This means they have no other source of supply but equally, if the system is working, they should be getting enough to get by on. The problem is that foreign correspondents cannot get in to establish the exact situation for themselves.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Propaganda at its finest.

Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Source: BBC.
[h1]Propaganda war: trusting what we see?[/h1]



Israel has tried to take the initiative in the propaganda war over Gaza but, in one important instance, its version has been seriously challenged.

The incident raises the question of how to interpret video taken from the air.

Israel released video of an air attack on 28 December, which appeared to show rockets being loaded onto a lorry. The truck and those close to it were then destroyed by a missile.


This was clear evidence, the Israelis said, of how accurate their strikes were and how well justified. A special unit it has set up to coordinate its informational plan put the video onto YouTube as part of its effort to use modern means of communications to get Israel's case across.

The YouTube video has a large caption on it saying "Grad missiles being loaded onto the Hamas vehicle." As of Saturday morning UK time, more than 260,000 people had watched it.

Different version

It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop.

This workshop had been damaged when a building next door was bombed by the Israelis and he was afraid of looters, he said.

The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem put Mr Sanur's account on its website, together with a photograph of burned out oxygen cylinders.

Mr Sanur said that eight people, one of them his son, had been killed. He subsequently told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz: "These were not Hamas, they were our children... They were not Grad missiles.".

The Israeli response was that the "materiel" was being taken from a site that had stored weapons. The video remains on You Tube.

But the incident shows how an apparently definitive piece of video can turn into something much more doubtful.

It is reminiscent of an event in the Nato war against Serbia over Kosovo in 1999. In that case, a video taken from the air seemed to show a military convoy which was then attacked.

On the ground however it was discovered that the "trucks" were in fact tractors towing cartloads of civilian refugees, many of whom were killed.

Israel effort

The Israeli propaganda effort is being directed to achieve two main aims.

The first is to justify the air attacks. The second is to show that there is no humanitarian calamity in Gaza.

Both these aims are intended to place Israel in a strong position internationally and to enable its diplomacy to act as an umbrella to fend off calls for a ceasefire while the military operation unfolds.

Israel has pursued the first aim by being very active in getting its story across that Hamas is to blame. The sight of Hamas rockets streaking into Israel has been helpful in this respect.

It has also allowed trucks in with food aid and has stressed that it will not let people starve, even if they go short.

Israel appears to think its efforts are working.

One of its spokespeople, who has regularly appeared on the international media, Major Avital Leibovich, said: "Quite a few outlets are very favourable to Israel."

Ban on foreign media

Israel has bolstered its approach by banning foreign correspondents from Gaza, despite a ruling from the Israeli Supreme Court.

The Arab television news channel Al Jazeera is operating there and its reports have been graphic and have affected opinion across the Arab world. The BBC also has its local bureau hard at work.

But the absence of reporters from major organisations has meant, for example, that Mr Samur's story has not been as widely told as it probably would have been, or his account subject to an on-the-spot examination.

Meanwhile Israel has received good coverage of the threats and damage to its own towns and communities.

Whether Israel retains any propaganda initiative is not all certain. Pictures of dead and wounded children have undermined its claim to pinpoint accuracy and the longer this goes on, the greater the potential for world public opinion to swing against it, with diplomatic pressure building for a cessation.

Its presentational problems would be hugely increased if it engaged in a ground operation, which would bring with it more pictures of death and destruction.

Update: several readers have e-mailed to ask whether I believe Hamas. One said I had "bought into" Hamas propaganda. Another that I should have dealt with Hamas' claims: "What's missing speaks volumes about your one-sidedness."

I do not believe anyone's "propaganda." We seek to verify all claims, from whatever source. One of the main claims in Gaza at the moment is the serious situation for the population. Having reported from Gaza many times over the years, I know how crowded parts of it are and how dependent the people are on food aid from the UN. This means they have no other source of supply but equally, if the system is working, they should be getting enough to get by on. The problem is that foreign correspondents cannot get in to establish the exact situation for themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Very nice, thanks.
 
Exactly my point. I truly believe this is going to be "the one" where Israel doesn't hold back. This is why I hope USA grows some )(#$)($ veryquickly and steps in. Very good read.
 
Originally Posted by meth68

Exactly my point. I truly believe this is going to be "the one" where Israel doesn't hold back. This is why I hope USA grows some )(#$)($ very quickly and steps in. Very good read.
Click to expand...

It really would be whats best for the area, but in all honesty I don't think America can change its policy in time to help these people. Neighboring Arabcountries need to step in and do SOMETHING. Anything.
 
This is just stupid plaestine adn Irasel have been going at it for YEARS now. Let them just get it over with. American aint gonna do a thing untill hamas isdestroyed
 
Originally Posted by milestailsprowe

This is just stupid plaestine adn Irasel have been going at it for YEARS now. Let them just get it over with. American aint gonna do a thing untill hamas is destroyed
Click to expand...
Hamas was elected democratically in one of the first free elections in the Middle East, and now they should be destroyed?

What does this say to the people in the region who feel like they need democracy, but over the years have felt the affects of imperialism? Now seeing leadersthat they elected being ousted from power by another democratic nation because they have conflicting views?

This is a tremendous blow.
 
Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by meth68

Exactly my point. I truly believe this is going to be "the one" where Israel doesn't hold back. This is why I hope USA grows some )(#$)($ very quickly and steps in. Very good read.
Click to expand...

It really would be whats best for the area, but in all honesty I don't think America can change its policy in time to help these people. Neighboring Arab countries need to step in and do SOMETHING. Anything.
Click to expand...
nothing is changing on the US side. obama pledges full support to israel and tells the rest of the region to lay off, just like bush.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest News

View All News

The ultimate sneaker enthusiast community.

Site contents may not be incorporated into AI training data or any other derivative works without prior express written consent.

Links to participating merchants may generate referral or affiliate commissions that help support our community. See our policies for details. NikeTalk is NOT affiliated with Nike Inc. in any way, shape, or form. All opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of Nike, Inc.

© 1999-2024 NikeTalk.com

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom