Former Christians: What Made You a Skeptic?

[sonunox34]

Originally Posted by bonafide hustla

Originally Posted by sonunox34

Good thread.

I stopped believing because I knew too much. I was in Catholic school from K-12 grades, and I took two theology courses in college. This along with attending weekly mass for most of my life provided me with great knowledge of Roman Catholicism.

So many questions arose.

- How did any of those Old Testament stories happen? Adam and Eve?

yeah, ok. Noah's Ark? Burning bush? Splitting a river in two? Along with encouraging war, multiple wives, slavery, and other atrocities, I just can't respect the Old Testament. People that see the Bible as absolute truth INSIST the Earth is only 4,000 years old, while scientific estimates place it at 4.5 billion years old. Seriously??

- Jesus. Why did he come at the time he did? Why isn't he alive now, where he could have a blog, a podcast, his own TV station, etc? What set Jesus apart from any other "prophet," the fact that his followers insist that miracles occurred? Sounds like every other cult to me. Sure, he may have lived. But his mystical properties make little to no sense.

- The accounts of Jesus. You're telling me that the gospels, the only "true" accounts of Jesus' life, were written down 50 years or later from his death? By people who didn't even know Jesus when he lived? And THEN these gospels were translated multiple times, in multiple languages. I'm sorry, I do not believe that these gospels are reliable accounts. It's just not realistic to think so.

I also despise what the church has been used for, and what it is used for today. How many wars have been started because of religion? How many Catholic missionaries thought it was their "duty" to force native people into becoming Christian? Europeans thought they were on a mission from God to conquer North America, East to West. Various popes have been incredibly evil people that abused their power to the max. Today, rednecks insist God wants a white, Christian president. Mormons walk door to door, trying to force their ways on other people. NO THANKS.

I take the Bill Maher perspective... that there is no way that we will ever know God, or the truth until we die.

How many hundreds of religions are there? And they all believe they are the ONE TRUTH? Odds are, we're all wrong.

i feel and agree with a lot of the stuff you're saying, but it seems like you trying so hard to break it down to a science and that is often times what cause people to fall out with beliefs. they fail to realize that we are just human and its hard to really comprehend the things that something that theoretically created us (based on whatever your belief is) can comprehend. its like trying to jump from an intern to a CEO of a company you work for times a trillion. not trying to say that we should all confine our mental capacity and questioning becaue I believe that is what causes a lot of the bad things with religion...trying to take advantage of people's ignorance, but just saying that trying to have it all figured out isnt necessarily the sure fire answer either. keep digging and searching, but nobody has the answers b/c nobody on this earth created existence

In response to your last two sentences... read the last part of my OG post. I said the exact same thing that you're saying... the"nobody has the answer" approach is what Bill Maher (and me) are trying to say.

 

[swolemeat]

good question, I dont know what it was for sure, but something in me just thought that things didnt add up, probably after going to a weird %%@ church camp anthen reading those Da Vinci Code and angels and Demons books by Dan brown.

LEt me ask yall this though...

Do you think believers give too much credit to God, and not enough to themselves? I think people underestimate what they can do, and if they have to beleive ina higher power to do that then thats cool. But i think they can do or get those things by coincidence or just giving there best.

Thoughts?

 

[blackmagnus514]

Religion is the greatest hustle in the world. I believe in God but not in the concept of a church.

Also, my personality is that I get tired of being in one place for too long if i aint stimulated. My church didnt do enough to cultivate youthful talent. Also,it was too legalistic. there was a rule for EVERYTHING.

 

[philballa09]

for the christians http://iamsecond.com/

some great testimonies

 

[blackmagnus514]

1. The fact that the bible was written (and re-written) by man over and over. Kinda like if 10 people seen a fight 2 months ago, you would probably hear a couple slightly different stories of exactly what happened if you asked them what happened today. Then ask the same people in another 2 months the story would probably change (slightly) again. Do this over a period of 2 thousand years and who know's what might be said.

2. The motive's of the Church back then (and now to an extent) seemed to be kinda sinister/fraudulent the more I look into it. It's like they was using the Bible to basically keep people in check, more than using it for religion or enlighten or help people.
basically.

My pastors told me when i went to college my faith would be challenged. Geez, they has no idea how true that was.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Chi ILL

A lot of you guys don't believe for the entirely wrong reason. Even among historians/atheist scholars/apologetics, there is little debate about whether the historical Jesus lived. And among them, a good many believe Jesus did die on the cross. The argument lies within what happened afterwards. Did he or did he not resurrect, that is the essential debate.

Truth , I believe he was a man , but not in the sense that everyone else thinks .

____________________________________________________________

How can people expect me to believe about the "godly" Jesus when we can't even get what he looked like right ?

That's insanity to me . Dude was MIDDLE-EASTERN ... how do you get Blonde hair / blue eyes out of it ?

What is dude's name (name isn't coming to mind) that came in the church & changed Jesus to be in his image ?

I believe that if you take enough Ethics/Humanities/World Studies you would realize more things ...


Hold on for a sec?

Who said anything about blonde hair and blue eyes?

What happened to hair of sheep's wool and skin of bronze?

You going off the pictures? He sounds like He could be Black or middle eastern.

 

[bobby light]

im not a religious person at all..but i was brought up to believe in god..but idk..i find myself doubting ALOT..i just find it hard to believe there's somedude up in the sky watching over us

 

[rko2004]

One thing I've noticed and I don't mean this in a rough in your face way but in a real talk way.

For all the people asking where is God? Why do you care? You denounce his existence and put down people that try to follow him every chance you get. When somepossible answers are given, you denounce those too. What do you want exactly? What are you looking for exactly? Are you looking for a reason to believe? Theseare real questions because I want to better understand where your coming from.

NTOG I see why your angered. But the fact of the matter is every person has "free will" to do as He pleases. God doesn't determined what we do.In my opinion, God knows our pain and frustration. He knows what we're thinking. But maybe just maybe He has a bigger plan, a better place for us in mindafter this world. Maybe that's why He has allowed free will.

Think about it for a little bit. Why would a all power being just let us do whatever if He didn't have a bigger plan?

Just a thought I hope you all take a minute to think on.

 

[moonmaster3]

Originally Posted by davidisgodly

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Long debate about the Jesus resurrection, but its interesting. Mike Licona is a good apologetic to look at. For a good atheist perspective, I recommend Richard Carrier.

Anyone else watching this?

It's like a drama. I'm hooked. Btw, its about 4 hrs long.

Thank you for taking the time to watch some of the debate, this isn't no Zeitgeist *+*%#*$%. THere is a debate between Mike Licona vs Richard Carrier thatis really good. Licona uses his same speech from this one, but Carrier gives great rebuttals. Again, a lot of people in here are talking out of their #%* as towhy they don't believe.

 

[kiuyt856]

Originally Posted by Korto

kiuyt856 wrote:

---

Because of this, which I asked in another thread-

kiuyt856 wrote:

---

I'm assuming we all know a little bit about Ghandi and his philosophy. He practiced non-violence, and through that he was able to help gain Indian Independence and civil rights for his people. He was all about peace and was a genuinely good soul, right? Now do you, most specifically Christians, believe that at this very moment and for the rest of eternity, Ghandi is burning and suffering in hell, right beside people like Hitler, Stalin, and Idi Amin? Regardless of the way he lived his life, do you believe Ghandi deserves that fate because he practiced Hinduism, and never accepted Jesus Christ as his savior?

I just don't believe that a good person deserves to suffer for eternity because he didn't accept anothers religion. I also don't agree with homosexuality being a ticket to hell for the same reasoning.Those are the main reasons I stopped practicing. And I went punctually to church for about 3 years. I finally realized that I just don't agree with it.
When the bible says that only through Jesus can people be saved, you have to understand that it means that only through God can people be saved, not the six foot tall human. Think about how many billions of people throughout the ages have never even heard of Jesus, how silly it is to claim that they are all doomed to "suffer in hell for eternity".

I'm late responding to you, and I understand what you're saying, but I still disagree. Romans 1:19-20 says "since the creation of the world,God's invisible attributes - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen...so that men are without excuse." And aside from that, tothe best of my knowledge if you die and it was impossible for you to learn about Jesus, you will be given your chance then and there. Ghandi knew very wellabout Jesus and Christianity, but he never accepted Jesus Christ as his savior. It is absolutely true that according to the bible, to get into heaven you mustrepent and ask Jesus into your heart, so that he can give you eternal life.
Going from that, according to the bible Ghandi is currently burning in hell.
And again, that reasoning is why I fell away from Christianity.

 

[jdmevoixmr]

Originally Posted by DaNiKeRhiNo

I still believe in God, but I'm no longer a Catholic. I stopped being one when I seen people kissing the statues' feets, doing the cross every time they passed a church, and a few other things. Where in the bible does it say that you have to kiss a statue or bow to the cross?

QFT

the catholic church always tries to get people to do their agenda, that's why they made up doctrines, the apocrypha, 7 deadly sins,venial sin, mortal sin and other BS so people would pay them money so the church would grow in power. Many things in catholic doctrine are NOT found in the Bible, I still don't see why people believe in that hogwash. It's a pagan religion full of symbolism,praying for Mary, praying for saints, they are all dead, they are not divine. And things like penance, last rites, why would somebody have to pay forsalvation? It said in the Bible that it's free, anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved. i don't understand why allthese people look onto the Pope as the same level as Jesus Christ. The Pope is a MAN, he is still sinful, imperfect, and still has to get saved just like therest of us. If the Pope IS God, then how come the last one died? Should not God be omniscient, omnipotent, immortal?

As for you dudes questioning God, I'll leave you up to it, it's really up to you. It's really simple, a virgin birth you question, or how the earthwas created in a week? Answer is, He's God, he can do ANYTHING. Granted, if you were God, you could do anything too, there's no limit or anyone higher.He spoke the universe and everything into existence, why? Because He's God, you cannot explain the spiritual with the physical. Religion leads to hell,trying to do something to get to heaven is in vain, you cannot get into heaven because of works. Only Jesus can save you, if you call on Him.

 

[vsano]

If you'll be able to prove the Theory of Evolution, then maybe, you're entitled to being skeptical.. Science wants to prove everything including God,when in fact, it has never proved Darwin's Theory w/c is widely accepted.. To me, it's a matter of faith... Miracles happen & it's not just acopping mechanism or something. You have to travel the world to see how God is viewed in many many ways, religion aside that is.

 

[jdmevoixmr]

Originally Posted by kiuyt856

Originally Posted by Korto

kiuyt856 wrote:

---

Because of this, which I asked in another thread-

kiuyt856 wrote:

---

I'm assuming we all know a little bit about Ghandi and his philosophy. He practiced non-violence, and through that he was able to help gain Indian Independence and civil rights for his people. He was all about peace and was a genuinely good soul, right? Now do you, most specifically Christians, believe that at this very moment and for the rest of eternity, Ghandi is burning and suffering in hell, right beside people like Hitler, Stalin, and Idi Amin? Regardless of the way he lived his life, do you believe Ghandi deserves that fate because he practiced Hinduism, and never accepted Jesus Christ as his savior?

I just don't believe that a good person deserves to suffer for eternity because he didn't accept anothers religion. I also don't agree with homosexuality being a ticket to hell for the same reasoning.Those are the main reasons I stopped practicing. And I went punctually to church for about 3 years. I finally realized that I just don't agree with it.

When the bible says that only through Jesus can people be saved, you have to understand that it means that only through God can people be saved, not the six foot tall human. Think about how many billions of people throughout the ages have never even heard of Jesus, how silly it is to claim that they are all doomed to "suffer in hell for eternity".

I'm late responding to you, and I understand what you're saying, but I still disagree. Romans 1:19-20 says "since the creation of the world, God's invisible attributes - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen...so that men are without excuse." And aside from that, to the best of my knowledge if you die and it was impossible for you to learn about Jesus, you will be given your chance then and there. Ghandi knew very well about Jesus and Christianity, but he never accepted Jesus Christ as his savior. It is absolutely true that according to the bible, to get into heaven you must repent and ask Jesus into your heart, so that he can give you eternal life.
Going from that, according to the bible Ghandi is currently burning in hell.
And again, that reasoning is why I fell away from Christianity.

According to the Bible he is, but you never know, you can't tell if anyone is saved, only that person can know. Even if you did EVERYTHING to better theworld, clean it up, donate billions to the church, teach behind kids how to read and succeed, save people from a terrorist attack, protect your country from aninvasion, your works mean NOTHING if you don't have Christ. That verse is basically saying, how can you deny there is a God? Everything was created in aperfect order, look at the earth for example, if we were one degree away from the sun, we would freeze, if we were one degree closer to the sun, we would burnup. Every person is born with something inside them that tells themself that something or someone created them, nobody is born in atheist, people are taughtand are coached by this world to be atheists.

 

[kiuyt856]

^That verse I included was meant to show that, saying you never had a chance to know of God is only an excuse, because there is evidence of him all around us.
And I agree with you, according to Christianity you can be the nicest and greatest philanthropist the world has ever known, but If you don't accept Jesus,you go straight to hell, regardless of how much good you did for the world. And that is why I am skeptical of Christianity, because of how wrong that conceptis to me.

 

[mac a roni]

[color= rgb(102, 0, 153)]I was raised catholic, but now i consider myself a follwoer of god and christ. I dont go by thebible because i feel thats not the word of jesus...it has been cut, reworded, and transformed over the years. Man wrote it and the catholic church has made itthe way they want it to be. Thats the problem about religion, it's merely what man depicts it to be. I follow what i believe is good and just, i prayevery once in a while to him, not thru a preist, but of my own words. Im scetchy about reliogion in general but i have a belief that there is a god. You willsseee me with a cross but never in church w. a bible.[/color]



[color= rgb(102, 0, 153)]The catholic church is evil[/color]

 

[ps2child]

Originally Posted by PhilBalla09

for the christians http://iamsecond.com/

some great testimonies

nice. thats what folks is missing. testimony reveals hiswork.

 

[three6mafia]

because its non-sense

christ, heaven, hell theyre all about as real as santa claus an the easter bunny

if the resurrection thing is true..then jesus was a zombie

"brrraaaaains"

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by three6mafia

because its non-sense

christ, heaven, hell theyre all about as real as santa claus an the easter bunny

if the resurrection thing is true..then jesus is a zombie

Bro why do you have to go there? We don't need that. We're trying to (I think) form a clearer understand of each other.

 

[columbiasneaks]

"God is Santa Claus for adults"

 

[three6mafia]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by three6mafia

because its non-sense

christ, heaven, hell theyre all about as real as santa claus an the easter bunny

if the resurrection thing is true..then jesus is a zombie

Bro why do you have to go there?

lol
its just my opinion bro. i refuse to believe that there is some magical place in the sky

as george carlin said "i believe in the sun, i can see the sun"

i mean, i respect the 10 commandments and what not. i mean im not gonna go out and kill people and what not lol
but the religion thing is BS to me.

if this so called god existed then why are there starving children in the world??
isnt he the one who tuned water into wine??? he cant make some food for these poor kids

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by three6mafia

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by three6mafia

because its non-sense

christ, heaven, hell theyre all about as real as santa claus an the easter bunny

if the resurrection thing is true..then jesus is a zombie

Bro why do you have to go there?

lol
its just my opinion bro. i refuse to believe that there is some magical place in the sky

as george carlin said "i believe in the sun, i can see the sun"

Your entitled to your opinion.

So is it fair to say you believe in souly evolution?

if this so called god existed then why are there starving children in the world??
I believe this is explained if you truly do the research.

Here's a question for you bro, do we not have control over starving children? Do we not have billions of dollars for war but not food? Whose to say everyproblem we have is not because of us? We want to blame God so much but the real blame lies with us. ALL OF US. We hurt each other daily over disagreements. Theanswers are in reach. You just have to grab them.

isnt he the one who tuned water into wine??? he cant make some food for these poor kids
Once again man, do the research and you'll see why He doesn't intervene directly. He gave us EVERYTHING we need to solve starvation. Wechoose to do nothing.

We can make the change. He gave us the power to do so. We choose to do NOTHING.

 

[three6mafia]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by three6mafia

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by three6mafia

because its non-sense

christ, heaven, hell theyre all about as real as santa claus an the easter bunny

if the resurrection thing is true..then jesus is a zombie

Bro why do you have to go there?

lol
its just my opinion bro. i refuse to believe that there is some magical place in the sky

as george carlin said "i believe in the sun, i can see the sun"

Your entitled to your opinion.

So is it fair to say you believe in souly evolution?

to an extent, ya
we had to come from some where. i could care less though. im here, thats all that matters.

id consider myself a Satanist

 

[russ tha g]

God doesn't determined what we do. In my opinion, God knows our pain and frustration. He knows what we're thinking. But maybe just maybe He has a bigger plan, a better place for us in mind after this world.

That logic is essentially the foundation for a strong anti-Christian argument. The idea that God is all powerful and controls everybody's destiny cannotcoexist with a theory that God allows free will. When good things happen, it's a blessing from God. When bad things happen, God isn't accountable...it's ridiculous and is founded off no logical reasoning.

Not to mention that the fantastical stories in the Bible are scientifically impossible. Star Wars is a story that has more likelihood of becoming true. Spacestations are more real than parting a sea or walking on water.

Christianity was established as a means of social control, and it provides some good guidelines. Sadly, Christians tend to have this disgustingholier-than-thou attitude if you're not one of them - which is anti-Christian in itself. My gf is relatively devout. I went to church with her for Easter.Seeing all these people (we went to a BIG church) losing their minds and dancing and chanting to music and speeches about something that is not accepted by themajority of the planet is flabbergasting.


In short
How can you not doubt your views? Other religions exist and people die for their beliefs, and they are completely against your own. (This applies vice-versa,too). How can both of you be right? You can't be. One of you (at least) has to be wrong. Chances are, if neither of you can actually prove your views andbelieve it based solely off faith - not fact, you probably are both wrong.

I'm not anti-Christian, I don't believe any religion is valid.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by three6mafia

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by three6mafia

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by three6mafia

because its non-sense

christ, heaven, hell theyre all about as real as santa claus an the easter bunny

if the resurrection thing is true..then jesus is a zombie

Bro why do you have to go there?

lol
its just my opinion bro. i refuse to believe that there is some magical place in the sky

as george carlin said "i believe in the sun, i can see the sun"

Your entitled to your opinion.

So is it fair to say you believe in souly evolution?

to an extent, ya
we had to come from some where. i could care less though. im here, thats all that matters.

id consider myself a Satanist

Your here for a reason. I don't know the exact reason but I'm sure you are.

 

[finnns2003]

^ good points.