Former Christians: What Made You a Skeptic?

[clkru]

Pope Benedict comes to mind, among other things...

 

[trasoul82]

TraSoul's Agnostic Prayer:


It's Unfortunate that we're forced to pretend
That we understand what will happen in the midst of the world's end
That's if there will be an end and if there will be then when
Or will Jesus descend again and walk the Earth amongst men?
And tell us all that we do wrong or even all that we do right
Then choose his soldiers who will be used for the ultimate fight
It's hard to know what to believe when we've been deceived
By preachers and priests who live 'true lies' as pedophiles and thieves
You can tell when money is tight, because the pastor will preach on tithing
When you walk with your head in the clouds, be aware of the lightning
It's strikes with a fury, electrocutes, executes with no jury
Children falling victim, lost like little lamb with no Mary
You followed your faith and sent your son to confession
Which turned into after-school meetings and secret sexual sessions
These graphic and forceful lyrics shouldn't contort your spirit
But expose the wrong in religion and yet you still don't hear it
You need relationship; stop walking around faking (it)
If you haven't heard the voice of God don't pretend just be patient ($#!+)
I'm sure that when he gets to you he'll tell you what you needs
And if you never hear his voice then think about what you believe
Have you take religion as your decision to live the mission
Or have you fallen victim to a habitual childhood tradition?
Don't label me Atheist because of my level of skepticism
I left religion because of the sinning of those pretending to represent Him.

-Amen

 

[sundoobie]

Just wait... just wait.. till you're on that dead bed with a illness that no human Doctor can provide you with the cure. Wait until you are at your lastbreathe or in so much pain that you cannot take it anymore. Wait until your mother is on the emergency room and tell me you will not believe in the Lord or ahigher power to provide you or them with some relief.

Like I said... just wait.

 

[grizzla1024]

Even if a person doesn't consciously believe in "God", if he lives life with integrity and does good things, and does so out of love and not out of fear or hate, what do you think he has discovered? Why do you think he acts the way he does? He may think of God as someone up in the clouds that is watching him (unfortunately a lot of people seem to have this idea of God) and say that such a silly thing doesn't exist and may even call himself an athiest. But the very reason he lives an integral life, the very kindness which he treats people with, the love itself that his actions come from, that is what is discovering God, whether you realize it or not. And that is what will "save" you - living life this way, not your beliefs.


This to me is the most sensible post in this thread. I dont think you need to believe in any particular god to be a good person or to act in the correct manor.
Personally im not a believer in any religion but that doesnt mean i havent got time to listen or take interest in what Christians, Buddists, Hindus etc have tosay. I actually find it interesting to learn about the various different beliefs.
I wouldnt call myself an Athiest either although i find a lot of what they talk about makes a lot more sense than what religious leaders/figures have say.

 

[retr0sxual]

First, it was common sense. Then, when church started to becoming way too boring for me to handle, I started doing research on my suspicion. When I found thatthere were actually other people out there that didn't believe in God, I was relieved and started running with it then. I grew up in Texas, so itwasn't exactly the "safest" place for a non-believer.

 

[bonafide hustla]

Originally Posted by retr0sxual

First, it was common sense. Then, when church started to becoming way too boring for me to handle, I started doing research on my suspicion. When I found that there were actually other people out there that didn't believe in God, I was relieved and started running with it then. I grew up in Texas, so it wasn't exactly the "safest" place for a non-believer.

hopefully there's a lot more into it than that my dude

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Just wait... just wait.. till you're on that dead bed with a illness that no human Doctor can provide you with the cure. Wait until you are at your last breathe or in so much pain that you cannot take it anymore. Wait until your mother is on the emergency room and tell me you will not believe in the Lord or a higher power to provide you or them with some relief.

Like I said... just wait.

How do you what anyone else has been through? And what does "christianity" really have to do with believing in a higher power?

"Wait until you are in so much pain" sounds eerily like The Inquisition.

 

[nt og]

I don't see the need for religion. Why would someone need religion? To teach them how to be a good person? You don't need religion for that. You and Iknow the difference between right and wrong. This was my first step away from Christianity. I was eight years old.

Then I looked at God himself. Why does he let innocent people suffer? Holocaust. Slavery. Katrina. Poverty. Just basic stuff like this. People can't justgive him credit for the good things and miracles that God supposedly did, and not blame him for all the atrocities in this world.

What's the point in believing in God for? He can't do anything for you. Why should I worship him? I'm not gonna worship anyone that can't doanything for me.

No one needs religion or God in their lives.

 

[sonunox34]

Good thread.

I stopped believing because I knew too much. I was in Catholic school from K-12 grades, and I took two theology courses in college. This along with attendingweekly mass for most of my life provided me with great knowledge of Roman Catholicism.

So many questions arose.

- How did any of those Old Testament stories happen? Adam and Eve?

yeah, ok. Noah's Ark? Burning bush? Splitting a river in two? Along with encouraging war, multiple wives, slavery, and other atrocities, I just can'trespect the Old Testament. People that see the Bible as absolute truth INSIST the Earth is only 4,000 years old, while scientific estimates place it at 4.5billion years old. Seriously??

- Jesus. Why did he come at the time he did? Why isn't he alive now, where he could have a blog, a podcast, his own TV station, etc? What set Jesus apart from any other "prophet," the fact that his followers insist that miracles occurred? Sounds likeevery other cult to me. Sure, he may have lived. But his mystical properties make little to no sense.

- The accounts of Jesus. You're telling me that the gospels, the only "true" accounts of Jesus' life, werewritten down 50 years or later from his death? By people who didn't even know Jesus when he lived? And THEN these gospels were translated multipletimes, in multiple languages. I'm sorry, I do not believe that these gospels are reliable accounts. It's just not realistic to think so.

I also despise what the church has been used for, and what it is used for today. How many wars have been started because of religion? How many Catholicmissionaries thought it was their "duty" to force native people into becoming Christian? Europeans thought they were on a mission from God to conquerNorth America, East to West. Various popes have been incredibly evil people that abused their power to the max. Today, rednecks insist God wants a white,Christian president. Mormons walk door to door, trying to force their ways on other people. NO THANKS.

I take the Bill Maher perspective... that there is no way that we will ever know God, or the truth until we die.

How many hundreds of religions are there? And they all believe they are the ONE TRUTH? Odds are, we're all wrong.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

No one knows, and no one will ever know, so why commit yourself to trying to pretend that you know. I just try to be the best person I can be.

 

[be4chst]

i dont wanna say anything bad about religions but Christianity is no where above and under any under religion.

 

[finnns2003]

Originally Posted by NT OG

I don't see the need for religion. Why would someone need religion? To teach them how to be a good person? You don't need religion for that. You and I know the difference between right and wrong. This was my first step away from Christianity. I was eight years old.

Then I looked at God himself. Why does he let innocent people suffer? Holocaust. Slavery. Katrina. Poverty. Just basic stuff like this. People can't just give him credit for the good things and miracles that God supposedly did, and not blame him for all the atrocities in this world.

What's the point in believing in God for? He can't do anything for you. Why should I worship him? I'm not gonna worship anyone that can't do anything for me.

No one needs religion or God in their lives.

that's what i'm wondering. my grandfather was a very peaceful, generous person who read the bible and had strong faith. and the way hepassed, suffering... nah, that doesn't fly with me. now mom is dealing with health issues. she's the most gentle person... so i have a problem withthis whole 'blind faith' @%!%. there's no balance.

 

[bonafide hustla]

Originally Posted by sonunox34

Good thread.

I stopped believing because I knew too much. I was in Catholic school from K-12 grades, and I took two theology courses in college. This along with attending weekly mass for most of my life provided me with great knowledge of Roman Catholicism.

So many questions arose.

- How did any of those Old Testament stories happen? Adam and Eve?

yeah, ok. Noah's Ark? Burning bush? Splitting a river in two? Along with encouraging war, multiple wives, slavery, and other atrocities, I just can't respect the Old Testament. People that see the Bible as absolute truth INSIST the Earth is only 4,000 years old, while scientific estimates place it at 4.5 billion years old. Seriously??

- Jesus. Why did he come at the time he did? Why isn't he alive now, where he could have a blog, a podcast, his own TV station, etc? What set Jesus apart from any other "prophet," the fact that his followers insist that miracles occurred? Sounds like every other cult to me. Sure, he may have lived. But his mystical properties make little to no sense.

- The accounts of Jesus. You're telling me that the gospels, the only "true" accounts of Jesus' life, were written down 50 years or later from his death? By people who didn't even know Jesus when he lived? And THEN these gospels were translated multiple times, in multiple languages. I'm sorry, I do not believe that these gospels are reliable accounts. It's just not realistic to think so.

I also despise what the church has been used for, and what it is used for today. How many wars have been started because of religion? How many Catholic missionaries thought it was their "duty" to force native people into becoming Christian? Europeans thought they were on a mission from God to conquer North America, East to West. Various popes have been incredibly evil people that abused their power to the max. Today, rednecks insist God wants a white, Christian president. Mormons walk door to door, trying to force their ways on other people. NO THANKS.

I take the Bill Maher perspective... that there is no way that we will ever know God, or the truth until we die.

How many hundreds of religions are there? And they all believe they are the ONE TRUTH? Odds are, we're all wrong.

i feel and agree with a lot of the stuff you're saying, but it seems like you trying so hard to break it down to a science and that is oftentimes what cause people to fall out with beliefs. they fail to realize that we are just human and its hard to really comprehend the things that something thattheoretically created us (based on whatever your belief is) can comprehend. its like trying to jump from an intern to a CEO of a company you work for times atrillion. not trying to say that we should all confine our mental capacity and questioning becaue I believe that is what causes a lot of the bad things withreligion...trying to take advantage of people's ignorance, but just saying that trying to have it all figured out isnt necessarily the sure fire answereither. keep digging and searching, but nobody has the answers b/c nobody on this earth created existence

 

[davidisgodly]

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Long debate about the Jesus resurrection, but its interesting. Mike Licona is a good apologetic to look at. For a good atheist perspective, I recommend Richard Carrier.

Anyone else watching this?

It's like a drama. I'm hooked. Btw, its about 4 hrs long.

 

[davidisgodly]

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Originally Posted by NT OG

I don't see the need for religion. Why would someone need religion? To teach them how to be a good person? You don't need religion for that. You and I know the difference between right and wrong. This was my first step away from Christianity. I was eight years old.

Then I looked at God himself. Why does he let innocent people suffer? Holocaust. Slavery. Katrina. Poverty. Just basic stuff like this. People can't just give him credit for the good things and miracles that God supposedly did, and not blame him for all the atrocities in this world.

What's the point in believing in God for? He can't do anything for you. Why should I worship him? I'm not gonna worship anyone that can't do anything for me.

No one needs religion or God in their lives.

that's what i'm wondering. my grandfather was a very peaceful, generous person who read the bible and had strong faith. and the way he passed, suffering... nah, that doesn't fly with me. now mom is dealing with health issues. she's the most gentle person... so i have a problem with this whole 'blind faith' @%!%. there's no balance.

If you ever read an ounce of the bible or had theology classes in a university, you would know the answer to your question.

If your grandfather read the bible had have strong faith as you say, he wouldn't look at his death as a suffering as you do.

What does God have to do with anything with a humanly order? He did not say, let man never have disease! Are you looking for reason? God is the wrong place tostart.

What's wrong with people is the blame factor, the seeking for help factor, this reliance problem, this insecurity to loneliness.

NOTHING wrong with being skeptical, but your a skeptic for those reasons?

 

[retr0sxual]

Originally Posted by bonafide hustla

Originally Posted by retr0sxual

First, it was common sense. Then, when church started to becoming way too boring for me to handle, I started doing research on my suspicion. When I found that there were actually other people out there that didn't believe in God, I was relieved and started running with it then. I grew up in Texas, so it wasn't exactly the "safest" place for a non-believer.

hopefully there's a lot more into it than that my dude

Hmm... if you mean that you hope that my disbelief in God/religion is because of more than just not being alone, you're right. It's notlike that at all.

I just meant that I've always been a non-believer, but I didn't start to express my non-belief very much untilI saw that there were others that felt the same way, lest I be shunned by society.

It's always been a fairytale to me.

 

[nealraj006]

Originally Posted by GriZZla1024

Even if a person doesn't consciously believe in "God", if he lives life with integrity and does good things, and does so out of love and not out of fear or hate, what do you think he has discovered? Why do you think he acts the way he does? He may think of God as someone up in the clouds that is watching him (unfortunately a lot of people seem to have this idea of God) and say that such a silly thing doesn't exist and may even call himself an athiest. But the very reason he lives an integral life, the very kindness which he treats people with, the love itself that his actions come from, that is what is discovering God, whether you realize it or not. And that is what will "save" you - living life this way, not your beliefs.

This to me is the most sensible post in this thread. I dont think you need to believe in any particular god to be a good person or to act in the correct manor.
Personally im not a believer in any religion but that doesnt mean i havent got time to listen or take interest in what Christians, Buddists, Hindus etc have to say. I actually find it interesting to learn about the various different beliefs.
I wouldnt call myself an Athiest either although i find a lot of what they talk about makes a lot more sense than what religious leaders/figures have say.
I think that it's interesting to hear other people's perspective on controversial/moral topics. It makes me think about my moral choicesand makes me sort of justify them to myself. I really don't think of myself as following any certain religion because my beliefs exclude many beliefs ofwhat I grew up with; Hinduism.

Many people respect people like Albert Einstein, not because of their religious beliefs, but more because of their contributions to society. When you think ofhim, I'm pretty sure that religion doesn't pop in your head, but you will probably think of him as a good person. His work has helped develop so manycurrent technologies and he didn't do it for himself. He was a living example of how life should be lived; selfless. Who knows if he ever went toChurch/Mosque/Temple/etc., but he definitely did what a lot of people believe people should do, which is live life for others. He shows that religion isn'tnecessary in order to live a selfless/good life.

Originally Posted by NT OG

I don't see the need for religion. Why would someone need religion? To teach them how to be a good person? You don't need religion for that. You and I know the difference between right and wrong. This was my first step away from Christianity. I was eight years old.

I think that religion is for those who have nowhere to start their faith from. Eventually, quite a few people turn away from their"religion" to their own set of beliefs. Just like when you start working out, you'll probably start with a precise workout regiment in the gym.Eventually you learn more and alter your practices to fit your person.

 

[finnns2003]

Originally Posted by davidisgodly

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Originally Posted by NT OG

I don't see the need for religion. Why would someone need religion? To teach them how to be a good person? You don't need religion for that. You and I know the difference between right and wrong. This was my first step away from Christianity. I was eight years old.

Then I looked at God himself. Why does he let innocent people suffer? Holocaust. Slavery. Katrina. Poverty. Just basic stuff like this. People can't just give him credit for the good things and miracles that God supposedly did, and not blame him for all the atrocities in this world.

What's the point in believing in God for? He can't do anything for you. Why should I worship him? I'm not gonna worship anyone that can't do anything for me.

No one needs religion or God in their lives.

that's what i'm wondering. my grandfather was a very peaceful, generous person who read the bible and had strong faith. and the way he passed, suffering... nah, that doesn't fly with me. now mom is dealing with health issues. she's the most gentle person... so i have a problem with this whole 'blind faith' @%!%. there's no balance.

If you ever read an ounce of the bible or had theology classes in a university, you would know the answer to your question.

If your grandfather read the bible had have strong faith as you say, he wouldn't look at his death as a suffering as you do.

What does God have to do with anything with a humanly order? He did not say, let man never have disease! Are you looking for reason? God is the wrong place to start.

What's wrong with people is the blame factor, the seeking for help factor, this reliance problem, this insecurity to loneliness.

NOTHING wrong with being skeptical, but your a skeptic for those reasons?

sounds like an apologist answer to me. it's not about humanly order, it's about the events that shape our existence. it's about the'why', not the 'what'. why were these things created? the concepts, not just for certain individuals. blame factor? hardly, it's aboutlooking deeper into the structure of life itself.

 

[chi ill]

A lot of you guys don't believe for the entirely wrong reason. Even among historians/atheist scholars/apologetics, there is little debate about whether the historical Jesus lived. And among them, a good many believe Jesus did die on the cross. The argument lies within what happened afterwards. Did he or did he not resurrect, that is the essential debate.
Truth , I believe he was a man , but not in the sense that everyone else thinks .

____________________________________________________________

How can people expect me to believe about the "godly" Jesus when we can't even get what he looked like right ?

That's insanity to me . Dude was MIDDLE-EASTERN ... how do you get Blonde hair / blue eyes out of it ?

What is dude's name (name isn't coming to mind) that came in the church & changed Jesus to be in his image ?

I believe that if you take enough Ethics/Humanities/World Studies you would realize more things ...

 

[dynasty raider]

I was raised christian in an AME church. I started questioning religion when I saw church-going people acting like fools monday through saturday. I saw a lotof people contradicting what they preach and read in the bible itself. I too was pretty young. I started to learn a little about other religions and realizedthat the only reason I was christian is because my parents were raised christians and probably had to do with the country I live in and background my peoplehave. But take a kid that was born in another country on the other side of the world with totally different beliefs. What makes my religion so right comparedto his? By default? Plus I'm a logical person. I started to think most likely we just don't exist any longer, kind of like before we were born, becausethat seems like the most logical thing.

Don't get me wrong, if there is a heaven I will be thrilled but all I can do is be happy that I'm alive and not question it TOO much. We only get oneof these lives if we spend so much of it trying to figure why we're here and worshiping, you forget to have fun. If there is a God I highly doubt he put uson this Earth with the sole purpose of worshiping him. Some people take it way too far also, but that's on them. I can't stand when people use theirreligion when it benefits them. They'll do something that blatantly contradicts their beliefs when they want to but when it comes to something they just dowanna do all the sudden they're a loyal follow of their religion again. Me personally, I don't need to believe in Jesus (I do believe there may be aGod though) to feel comfortable in life, I'm just happy and grateful to whatever higher power put us here that I have a life to live.

 

[nt og]

Originally Posted by davidisgodly

Originally Posted by finnns2003

NT OG wrote:

---

I don't see the need for religion. Why would someone need religion? To teach them how to be a good person? You don't need religion for that. You and
I know the difference between right and wrong. This was my first step away from Christianity. I was eight years old.




Then I looked at God himself. Why does he let innocent people suffer? Holocaust. Slavery. Katrina. Poverty. Just basic stuff like this. People can't just
give him credit for the good things and miracles that God supposedly did, and not blame him for all the atrocities in this world.




What's the point in believing in God for? He can't do anything for you. Why should I worship him? I'm not gonna worship anyone that can't do
anything for me.




No one needs religion or God in their lives.

that's what i'm wondering. my grandfather was a very peaceful, generous person who read the bible and had strong faith. and the way he
passed, suffering... nah, that doesn't fly with me. now mom is dealing with health issues. she's the most gentle person... so i have a problem with
this whole 'blind faith' @%!%. there's no balance.

If you ever read an ounce of the bible or had theology classes in a university, you would know the answer to your question.

If your grandfather read the bible had have strong faith as you say, he wouldn't look at his death as a suffering as you do.

What does God have to do with anything with a humanly order? He did not say, let man never have disease! Are you looking for reason? God is the wrong place to start.

What's wrong with people is the blame factor, the seeking for help factor, this reliance problem, this insecurity to loneliness.

NOTHING wrong with being skeptical, but your a skeptic for those reasons?




Does God not have the power to stop these things?

Let's say your mother was being raped, a cop sees this, yet he just looks until the rapist is finished with your mother and does nothing. Then the rapistkills her. The rapist then looks at the cop, waves, says hi, then walks past the cop to his car, gets in, honks at the cop for fun, smiles at the cop, thendrives away, running over your mom's dead body, crushing her head. The cop doesn't do anything even though he has the power to. The rapists then doesthe same thing to 40 other women.

Would you not blame that cop for letting your mom be raped, murdered, and letting the rapist murderer go?

I admit that was pretty extreme. But God is pretty much that cop. He saw what happened. He saw your mom being raped and killed and he let the killer go.Furthermore because he is God, He knows that the rapist is going to be a serial rapist and a serial murderer, yet, God lets the guy go.

nahhhhhhh. that's not right.

 

[pr1nts]

i converted to buddhism.

 

[dynasty raider]

Originally Posted by Chi ILL


How can people expect me to believe about the "godly" Jesus when we can't even get what he looked like right ?

That's insanity to me . Dude was MIDDLE-EASTERN ... how do you get Blonde hair / blue eyes out of it ?

What is dude's name (name isn't coming to mind) that came in the church & changed Jesus to be in his image ?

I believe that if you take enough Ethics/Humanities/World Studies you would realize more things ...

You already know why. Jesus is essentially the most popular historic figure in the whole world and is not photographed. Why would he NOT be portrayedphysically as a typical white male? Even if it's impossible. People who believe that he actually looked the way they portray him in church paintings andstain glass art must have no brain at all. Makes me sad when I see that image in a black church of all places. Not enough people think for themselves, theyjust believe what they've always been told without even slightly questioning it, even if it makes no sense at all.

Your last sentence I'm guessing by "take" you mean classes. That's a big part of America's problem, we need to look outside of theclassroom for knowledge. The same material people learn in class is available for you outside of school as well, and even more.

 

[Renaldo Balkman]

very interesting post... no matter what we read or write here, we cannot change ones perspective on life/religion. I feel that our growth and maturity isalways ever changing, and along with that, so does our religious view/faith/beliefs...

 

[chi ill]

Originally Posted by NT OG

Originally Posted by davidisgodly

Originally Posted by finnns2003

NT OG wrote:

---

I don't see the need for religion. Why would someone need religion? To teach them how to be a good person? You don't need religion for that. You and
I know the difference between right and wrong. This was my first step away from Christianity. I was eight years old.




Then I looked at God himself. Why does he let innocent people suffer? Holocaust. Slavery. Katrina. Poverty. Just basic stuff like this. People can't just
give him credit for the good things and miracles that God supposedly did, and not blame him for all the atrocities in this world.




What's the point in believing in God for? He can't do anything for you. Why should I worship him? I'm not gonna worship anyone that can't do
anything for me.




No one needs religion or God in their lives.

that's what i'm wondering. my grandfather was a very peaceful, generous person who read the bible and had strong faith. and the way he
passed, suffering... nah, that doesn't fly with me. now mom is dealing with health issues. she's the most gentle person... so i have a problem with
this whole 'blind faith' @%!%. there's no balance.

If you ever read an ounce of the bible or had theology classes in a university, you would know the answer to your question.

If your grandfather read the bible had have strong faith as you say, he wouldn't look at his death as a suffering as you do.

What does God have to do with anything with a humanly order? He did not say, let man never have disease! Are you looking for reason? God is the wrong place to start.

What's wrong with people is the blame factor, the seeking for help factor, this reliance problem, this insecurity to loneliness.

NOTHING wrong with being skeptical, but your a skeptic for those reasons?

Does God not have the power to stop these things?

Let's say your mother was being raped, a cop sees this, yet he just looks until the rapist is finished with your mother and does nothing. Then the rapist kills her. The rapist then looks at the cop, waves, says hi, then walks past the cop to his car, gets in, honks at the cop for fun, smiles at the cop, then drives away, running over your mom's dead body, crushing her head. The cop doesn't do anything even though he has the power to. The rapists then does the same thing to 40 other women.

Would you not blame that cop for letting your mom be raped, murdered, and letting the rapist murderer go?

I admit that was pretty extreme. But God is pretty much that cop. He saw what happened. He saw your mom being raped and killed and he let the killer go. Furthermore because he is God, He knows that the rapist is going to be a serial rapist and a serial murderer, yet, God lets the guy go.

nahhhhhhh. that's not right.
That's because God probably isn't real .

& if he is , there is no way for him to be divine .

Your last sentence I'm guessing by "take" you mean classes. That's a big part of America's problem, we need to look outside of the classroom for knowledge. The same material people learn in class is available for you outside of school as well, and even more.
People don't even do this though .