Do you regret not voting?

[gry60]

The presidency is not up for grabs. The president is pre selected behind closed doors long before the public is aware of the participants. Believing in this system of choice is the invisible chains bound to the land. Don't fall for the current media hype of racism bigotry and hate. It's all being set up by those in control.

No. Just no.

You think you live under a shadow government? How about you take the time to understand why candidates don't need to convince the majority of voters?

 

[superblytrife]

The presidency is not up for grabs. The president is pre selected behind closed doors long before the public is aware of the participants. Believing in this system of choice is the invisible chains bound to the land. Don't fall for the current media hype of racism bigotry and hate. It's all being set up by those in control.

There’s always gotta be at least one person like this. Always.

Please aware us.

 

[deuce king]

The presidency is not up for grabs. The president is pre selected behind closed doors long before the public is aware of the participants. Believing in this system of choice is the invisible chains bound to the land. Don't fall for the current media hype of racism bigotry and hate. It's all being set up by those in control.

LOL. Bless your heart.

 

[Peep Game]

Peep Game

It's not a cop out it is the truth.

What would Hilary do as bad or worse than the orange clown?

Civil rights?
Women's rights?
Environment?
Economy?
Infrastructure?
Foreign policy?
Healthcare?
Education?
Immigration?

We're in agreement I was saying supporters of Trump basically talked themselves into supporting him through creating narratives about Hilary

 

[RustyShackleford]

At least @AZwildcats called my name. I'll give respect for that. I don't remember saying it would be exactly the same under Clinton, but I'm not going to argue over that. I said these white supremacist were coming either way.

We had the Tea Party, the birthers and Alt-Right all gearing up WHILE Obama was in office. Would if have gone exactly the same? No. But was this coming regardless? Yes. If you understand why they're mad it's obvious what's going on.

White people are becoming minorities and it scares the racists to death. They expect payback for what they did or allowed to happen to black and brown people.

As for deuce king and RustyShackleford what are your thoughts on this short video?

I didn’t mention you by name because I was not thinking of you specifically when I was writing my post. There are a good number of dudes on NT that fit the bill of what I talked about. Secondly, we have had our one-on-one, I have made my views known to you directly. Also like I told you in the past it is weird you take issue with you not being called out by name, when you make post insulting voters, and don’t name names. But it is whatever.

On to the video

I don’t need to re-watch it because I saw it a couple times already, and I read her article. While I do respect Alexander’s opinion a great deal, she is playing fast and loose with the details…

-She was a Bernie Sanders supporter, he can deny the endorsement but from her interviews, and events, it was clear. She wrote her pieces when it seemed Sanders was going to get stemrolled in the South, and she clearly wanted to avoid such an outcome. And it is funny she takes this hardline stance against Hillary Clinton, yet she supports Sanders who voted for the Crime Bill. Not only that, like I said in the Political Thread a couple times, unfortunately tough on crime measures were also popular within large segments of America, even the black community. The community never asked for mass incarceration, but unfortunately they support policies for decades that help leads down that road.

I don’t say this to let anyone off the hook, but for people to realize that tough of crime policies and mass incarceration is not just something the Clinton thought up, and then worked to impose of the black community. It is a simplistic talking point that obscures the truth of how we got to this place.

-But her words about Bill Clinton is a lot of half-truths to pedaling this talking point of the “low information black”. One that assumes black folk especially older ones only supported Hillary because Bill was nice to them, or Hillary goes to the churches, or said she has hot sauce in her purse, is mostly nonsense. While there is a bit of truth to this (except her downplaying LBJ and forgetting Grant completely), Hillary Clinton support was not just based strictly on that. The Atlantic ran a piece outlining how Clinton build her support in the black community from grassroots campaigning for years, addressing the issues in large public speeches, reaching out to people individually, and most importantly making Civil Rights issues a major part of her platform.

I don’t even want to make this a “Defend the Clintons” post. But I’m tired of dudes yelling talking points at me acting like THE piece of evidence that shuts down the argument, when I have taken the time to research and put things into context myself. I have said **** you to Hillary for her words and actions, called Bill am idiot, misguided and even a sws. But you tell some people “hey, that’s not really how it happened” when it comes to the Clintons and suddenly you are labeled Clinton stan.

Ms. Alexnader has every right to support Sanders, I did in the primary, but if her main two beefs of the Bill Clinton Era are criminal justice and attacking the welfare state (which are also mine). Then keep in mind that Hillary Clinton based her camping around fixing those issues.

Furthermore, if you are going to use this video, I would suggest you take some advice from her. She speaks on Clinton actions regarding welfare reform, and how that had a major impact on the black communities. Yet, I have seen you and many other dudes repeat the Tariq Nasheed “black women and white welfare daddy” talking point. Well famb, maybe you should not be mad at Bill over welfare reform because that sentiment is exactly the sentiment that was around on the conservative right and centrist left that drove through welfare reform. The idea that single black women would behave better if they were not participating in social insurance programs. Shaming any black person for being on welfare is BS. But I bring this up to show you how a sentiment can exist within the black community, and among the people the claim have done do them wrong.

-Now I coming from many dudes, I always here this argument of voters being emotional, thinking Hillary Clinton was a savior. When for me and most others on the site that voted for her, it was never like that. I as an economist, I like wonkish **** about public policy. Policy is always #1 for me. If Hilary Clinton came around pushing the same polices Bill did, I would not vote for her. But she did not, she had extensive policies that would have helped the black community. But somehow, dudes like to dismiss those policies because they are not labelled “this is for black people”. But like Coastes says, the next best thing is to say “this disproportionately helps black people”, which is what Hillary Clinton did. Get to universal healthcare, moving towards a national childcare system, sentencing reform, expanding the EIC, jobs programs, financial reforms, anti-poverty measures, etc., all disproportionately help the black community. The Dems and Clinton had those things in their platform, that is why I wish dudes read those things before making the false comparisons, and shading voters.

That is why she got the support of so many academics that research this stuff, and is why I chose to support her after she was nominated. Her answer to BLM was criticized by black folk but I thought was good. She keeps it #1HUNNA, she can’t change the hearts of racist, there will always be racist white folk, there will always be white supremacist. And I don’t give a flying **** about changing their hearts really. Let those clowns march with Tiki torches, be idiots and have the court of public opinion deal with the. I care about making them powerless in the socioeconomic system, and you do that through policy. Hillary said, you want change, sure, but the change comes with policy. That makes the impact, not platitudes, or complaining.

And furthermore, I know for her, or Obama, or another Dem, or another strong Civil Rights progressive to make real change they need a supermajority. They need 60 true liberal Senators, even the joke of a one Obama had for like 3 months would not do. So, I intended to try to get to a supermajority, and get liberals to take over enough governor mansions and statehouses for larger scale reforms to take place. Sitting my *** at home works against that. It just allows racist Republicans to block any progress and set up a de facto apartheid state.

But instead liberals, progressives, and mainly younger black dudes like to stay home for local elections and midterms, and thus the GOP (the party of white supremacy right now) sweeps them. That is what made the Tea Party so powerful. It was not marching on Washington, having stupid town halls among themselves, or being loud racist in the street. The went to congressional town halls, got organized after their dark money injection, and mostly importantly THEY VOTED. They voted a ton, especially in primaries, midterms, local elections and most important during a redistricting year in 2010. Which ****** Obama over severely. If basically ended his legislative legacy right there. Not more progressive ****, no more Civil Rights ****, not more demand side spending.

All because they took emotion out of it, and when the other side was asleep they voted and gained control of government. Now look at all the power they have. Supreme Court lost for a generation because the left refuses to vote but the right does, the House gerrymandered to hell because the left refuses to vote but the right does, voter suppression of black voters because the left refuses to vote but the right does, massive loses at the state and local level because these white nationalist vote but the other side is so damn apathetic. And now they are one election cycle away from possible getting a supermajority, and the party of Trump being able call a Constitutional Convention, which would be disastrous for minorities in this country. And we still debating is voting is the move?

It is not voters that are acting on emotion. It is non-voters.

Listen Brolic, we have always been cool and I have always respected your opinion. And I have learned a bunch from some of your post. I understand where you coming from, but I can't respect your opinion on this because from all the research I have done, things I have learned, and stuff I have seen, I see your position on is very flawed.

 

[superblytrife]

The realist **** you ever wrote. Repped.

 

[sharpshooter718]

The majority of people believes that a guy worth billions chose to be president... the guy with billions in debt in charge of a country whose trillions in debt... lol


One of the reasons I remain quiet because ignorance is at an all time high and critical thinking/logic is at an all time low...

 

[AEA18]

What's so hard to believe?

You think the perqs and power that comes with being the POTUS isn't appealing to a billionaire?

Can pass laws that directly affect his businesses in a positive way.

He no longer has to donate his money to a politician with hopes that they pass laws for his benefit now.

He has been making more money visiting his own properties, upping the fees on things like golf carts that Secret Service pays for.

 

[RustyShackleford]

You are wasting your breath on dude

If it is not a conspiracy theory, dude is not interested in hearing it

 

[OBAMA]

it dont matter who i vote for. the person that won was going to win no matter if i voted for them or not.

 

[Sir San Diego]

RustyShackleford Ok, damn it... I'm stubborn, but I'm not a jackass. Maybe I've been one with this voting thing and I'll wear my L on it if that's the case. I don't pretend to know everything and this seems to be something you're passionate about, so I'm gonna vote from here on out and complain the loudest if **** don't change. I'm dead serious too. Y'all win. You too deuce king although I think you mostly ignore my posts. That's it. I'm gonna vote and encourage everyone else to do the same. Let's see what happens when we try.

 

[Sir San Diego]

This is stupid reasoning and obviously you have no idea what you are talking about...there was one clear choice who would help push obamas agenda further...this mind set was toxic during the election. A bunch of people like you spewing this garbage thinking you know what you are talki about but couldn't be more wrong

See my post above and calm down.

 

[Sir San Diego]

And one more thing is "spew garbage" the new slang? I wanna fight y'all for saying that. Sounds lame as hell.

 

[deuce king]

RustyShackleford Ok, damn it... I'm stubborn, but I'm not a jackass. Maybe I've been one with this voting thing and I'll wear my L on it if that's the case. I don't pretend to know everything and this seems to be something you're passionate about, so I'm gonna vote from here on out and complain the loudest if **** don't change. I'm dead serious too. Y'all win. You too deuce king although I think you mostly ignore my posts. That's it. I'm gonna vote and encourage everyone else to do the same. Let's see what happens when we try.

That's the spirit champ......that's what I like to see!! "That's one small step for man.......one giant leap for the black community" Now all I need is for my boy Maximus Meridius to get on board with the program and everything will be all good. I have pretty much written off @ninjahood as bad debt as it pertains to this matter.....as should the rest of you dudes as well.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

When has this ever NOT BEEN a reality in America?

This sudden fear of being black in America post-election has been hilarious. When have you ever NOT been in the crosshairs of white supremacy?

If it took Donald Trump for people to realize **** is real...I say good. Hopefully...this scares us into saving ourselves.

Preach.

What about all the people I know personally rotting away from a 3 strike law that was signed by a Clinton? The Clinton’s pandered to that same audience that trump riled up too!!!

When I look at the Clintons, I dont see someone who has black peoples best interest at heart. They’ve proven that with their actions.

Why should I give her my vote just cause she ain’t trump? The lesser of two evils is still EVIL!!!

The Clintons hands are dirty too...they put a lot of brothers in for profit prisons over petty charges.

If my choices are Trump or somebody that helped destroy black families I'm not participating in that, period. Then Bill Clinton was giving a speech somewhere last year tryna "apologize" and justify it by saying "The black leaders wanted me to lock those people up" Man please.


America has never cared about black peoples rights. It don't matter who's in office. Clinton, Bush, Obama, it's gonna be the same ****. These people ain't letting you change the system from the inside. Why would they do that? The system has been great for them. It's designed to work like this. They're not sharing power with people who they enslaved.

 

[shoefreakbaby]

Not one bit.

Trump is to the Republicans is what the Joker is was to the mob in the The Dark Knight.

They thought they found someone to win the war and he's going to pull down their empire.

Just got to ride out the carnage and pray not too many people get hurt

Srinivas Kuchibhotla and heather heyer (just to name american civilians) are two too many.

God didnt intend for you to pray now, he needed you to vote then.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Sir San Diego I respect you for listening to my point of view famb. And at the end of the end we all on the same side. And dudes should be patient and be willing to talk things out between is.

You might be happy to know that even as a gun control loving progressive. I have decided to purchase a han gun (keeping that **** locked away though). And I encourage black folk to sign up for gun permits.

I do want a healthy gun culture in America, and I don't want violence. But white supremacists have to be sent a signal that stem rolling minorities is not gonna so easy.

And black gun ownership scares the living hell outta these clowns.

If you ever need info on who to vote for, politics, hit me up. Cause I might pick your brain on some other **** too.

 

[gry60]

America has never cared about black peoples rights

Aaah yes, that's why no war was fought to uphold the institution of slavery.

That's why no schools were ever integrated

That's why no civil rights act passed congress and got signed into law

That's why no confederate statues got taken down last weekend

These people ain't letting you change the system from the inside.

Is this why so many democrat members of congress voted to pass the ACA, knowing it would political suicide?

 

[Belgium]

I'll first note that I obviously don't live in the US. In my country we have mandatory voting. Which means everyone from the age of 18 must vote in elections. If you have to work that day or you're sick to the point of not being able to make it to the voting booth, you're exempt. But if you fail to show up to vote, you'll receive a small fine. Usually around €50. You can also simply vote blank but those get added to the leading vandidate/party.
That's the system I grew up with but even if we were to abollish mandatory voting like the Netherlands did, I still think it's of great importance to vote in every election. Especially local. I go over each party and candidate's policies, ... and make my choice to vote based on the one I find to be most agreeable with my views.

My rationalization is that not voting doesn't benefit anyone including myself. I can't rationalize not voting.
The US and Belgium's political situations are vastly different, one being a two-party state and the other a multi-party state for example, so I'll just use an example to make my point.
Let's assume that I am deeply dissatisfied with the political system and have major disagreements with all current candidates. That would not change my views and principles on voting. If anything a stong dissatisfaction with all of the candidates would make me more inclined to vote. No party is exactly the same, so I would then thoroughly examine the candidates' policies, rhetoric, ... and decide which one I conclude to be the least damaging or the closest to agreeable, since in this example I have strong disagreements with all the candidates.
Not voting in such a scenario means I took no action to try to prevent the worst of the bunch from winning. Even if what you voted for doesn't end up winning, at least you took an action to try to make that happen.
Again, no party is exactly the same, there's always bound to be differences, however minor they may be. One is always bound to be worse or better than the other in some way. That's why it's important to get involved in the political process and go out there and vote even if you view all candidates as awful, struggle to find agreements, ... Simply take a good look at what each is proposing, their rhetoric and history, and decide which candidate comes closest to being in line with your views. In simpler terms, vote for what you think is closest to what you would want, vote for who you think will do the least damage if you truly strongly disagree with all of the candidates.
You're never gonna fully agree with a politician/party platform, it's impossible. Whether it's major or minor disagreements, you're always gonna have those with any party. That's not a reason to not vote.
Not voting doesn't have any point to me. I know some of y'all didn't vote, it is what it is. That's in the past now, but I would hope that you re-evaluate that choice in the future.

Now, on to the situation in the US and more generally speaking. Again, I'll note that I am neither American nor black.
First of all, I think it's a more than fair statement that no party in our respective countries has the best interests of black people in mind.
With the US' history and race relations, it's certainly understandable that many have lost faith in voting and feel that not voting is the best option. But I would disagree that voting doesn't matter. Progress may be very slow and there will be many setbacks on that long road, but every tiny bit helps. In the US' case, there is also an additional element to not voting, an element that isn't applicable to our system of mandatory voting. And that is voter suppression.

There have been numerous court rulings against the GOP targeting minority communities, specifically African-Americans, to disenfranchize them and prevent them from voting. The GOP defends those voter suppression tactics to the very end until a court shuts it down.
North Carolina's voter ID law for example. Some parts of the law were struck down by court because it "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision" in the words of the court.
Then there's also the fact that a NC republican strategist admitted that the point is to disenfranchize black voters, though he apparently doesn't think that's racist.
https://www.vox.com/2016/9/2/12774066/voter-id-laws-racist

Longtime Republican consultant: if black people voted Republican, voter ID laws wouldn't happen
He explained that the new wave of voting restrictions is about disenfranchising black voters, not stopping voter fraud.

If there was any remaining doubt that North Carolina’s voting restrictions — which require a photo ID to vote and limit early voting days — are about disenfranchising black people, recent comments by a top Republican consultant in the state should put that doubt to rest.


Longtime Republican consultant Carter Wrenn, a fixture in North Carolina politics, said the GOP’s voter fraud argument is nothing more than an excuse.

“Of course it’s political. Why else would you do it?” he said, explaining that Republicans, like any political party, want to protect their majority. While GOP lawmakers might have passed the law to suppress some voters, Wrenn said, that does not mean it was racist.

“Look, if African Americans voted overwhelmingly Republican, they would have kept early voting right where it was,” Wrenn said. “It wasn’t about discriminating against African Americans. They just ended up in the middle of it because they vote Democrat.”

This is as close to a smoking gun as anyone is going to get. Wrenn fully acknowledged that this is political and black people are being targeted, and rejected the other claim — voter fraud — that Republicans typically use to justify new voting restrictions.

The justification Wrenn gives — that Republicans want to protect their majority in the government just like anyone else — is unsatisfying, to say the least. Sure, any party would love to keep a majority in the legislature. But in this case, what Republicans are trying to do to achieve that — disenfranchise voters, particularly on the basis of their race and party affiliation — is inherently bad.

This is not complicated. More people participating in democracy is good. We want people to be active in their society and government, so no voices go unheard. Yet Republican legislators explicitly want to prevent this for their own political gain, and they’re doing it in a way that targets people based on their race.

As Wrenn suggests, Republicans have tried to get around this by claiming that their real concern is preventing in-person voter fraud. By requiring a photo ID and limiting early voting days, they hope it’ll be easier to catch fraudulent voters.

There’s a problem with that: The type of in-person voter fraud that initiatives like North Carolina’s target is nonexistent to extremely rare. Loyola Law School professor Justin Levitthas tracked credible allegations of in-person voter impersonation for years, finding 35 total credible allegations between 2000 and 2014, when more than 800 million ballots were cast in national general elections, and hundreds of millions more were cast in primary, municipal, special, and other elections.

In fact, the types of voter fraud that do exist — vote buying, insider ballot-box stuffing, double voting, and voting by people who turn out to be ineligible — are, if anything, made easier by laws like North Carolina’s. The state’s law, for one, made voting by mail-in absentee ballot easier by making registration forms more available online, and it doesn't require absentee voters to show photo ID.

At the same time, studies show that voting restrictions are more likely to hurt black voters. One widely cited 2006 study by the Brennan Center for Justice found voter ID laws, for instance, disproportionately impacted eligible black voters: 25 percent of black voting-age citizens did not have a government-issued photo ID, compared with 8 percent of white voting-age citizens.

These are the facts that led Fourth Circuit Court Judge Diana Gribbon Motz to strike downseveral restrictions in North Carolina’s law in July, concluding that it “target[ed] African-Americans with almost surgical precision.” Wrenn’s comments confirm Motz’s findings.

The NC case is just one of many of the GOP's active efforts to prevent black people from voting. That's that extra element that needs to be considered when discussing not voting in the US. Since the GOP spends so much time and effort trying to prevent African-Americans from voting, does that not make voluntarily not voting playing into their hands?
I don't see much point in playing the blame game at this point, it is what is. I hope that perhaps some will re-evaluate their stance on not voting and come to a different conclusion than before.

 

[MVP]

Respect Sir San Diego make sure if you're going to take that step vote at every chance you get especially in the midterms.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

"Saving yourself" by giving more power to white supremacists? Brilliant logic.

Then why not go all the way and flat out return to slavery? Just have white people posses black people like objects and farm animals. That ought to create such outrage among black people that a revolution would surely come.

You actually believe this...which is bizarre.

Now, certain folks upset and scared that Trumps in office? They ain't got no one to blame but themselves. No sympathy. Deal with it

Actually I think that's the other way around. I think the people that didn't vote....don't give a ****. It's the "you didn't vote...so it's your fault when slavery comes back" dudes that have been *****ing every day since November 6.

 

[RustyShackleford]

But let's remember, voting is not everything though. It is just one method that needs to be employed with others.

Activism, volunteer work, community organizing, supporting black small businesses, donating to positive causes and helping those on the margin all still matter a ton.

But the white supremacists fight tooth and nail to keep black folk away from that ballot box, they do that for a reason. Don't give those pieces of **** the satisfaction of self suppressing your vote.

 

[haz3]

The electoral college has all the power. The popular vote doesnt count. Why should i vote

 

[RustyShackleford]

There are other elections beside the president.

The Electoral College is literally just used for one out of thousands elections.

And the Electoral College becomes more representative of the popular vote the higher turnouts is.

Plus the people that want to change the system, need to be put into power at the state and local level.

That takes voting

 

[krazy88s]

The electoral college has all the power. The popular vote doesnt count. Why should i vote

Local elections, like mayors, school board, governor etc