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[CP1708]

I got dudes I don't know walkin up on me at work already. New guys and ****.

Yesterday ain't nobody talk NBA. Today, it's NBA day at my job apparently.

I just went at like half a garrison of clowns. Good times.

 

[jhawk826]

What the hell was Mike Brown thinking running a Princeton Offense with this team?! It does not work. The reason they got Nash was to push the ball. Just run a regular half court offense. The bench better get their act together quick. They were saying that Mike Brown could be gone by January if things don't click for this team and I can see it.

 

[pyboy28]

I get that they just started playing together for a few weeks...but not playing D being lazy and worrying about getting to your spot to shoot...that's just pathetic :x these guys are paid PROFESSIONALS...it should be BASIC FUNDAMENTALS...all I'm saying is we still got 80 games to go...I'm not worried yet but man we need to pull together that's 12 losses in a row including the end of last season step up that D mike brown you got hired for that.

 

[knightngale]

Somebody needs to tell Gasol not to show out too much when guarding the PnR. He goes way beyond the 3pt line that's why he is always late going back to his man... I don't know that's just what I've observed from him ever since he became a Laker.

that is mike brown's job
getting paid 4 million a year and can't even do that

Gasol supposedly has a high IQ and was gonna go to medical school or something but his actions on the court seem to contradict that...

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Father time has really caught up to Kobe on defense. He just cant keep up with these young dudes. His offensive game is still top notch but its sad watching dudes sprint pass him with ease.


Metta looks slow as hell on defense, we know Nash has never guarded anybody......I was hoping someway we could steal Andre Igudala in that deal. Oh well.

 

[tonelow]

Im extremely disappointed but Im still not too worried. It just bothers me that they think they'll be able to win by talent alone. They've been out worked and out hustled plain and simple.

The offense is going to get there, there are times when it looks absolutely unstoppable. But not boxing out and not giving effort on D is a recipe for losing no matter how talented your team is.

And yes I do put the blame on Mike Brown. Phil wasnt a defensive mastermind but he knew how to press buttons and how to motivate players to give their all out there. That's what Mike is lacking. Its not so much the Xs and Os, but they guy just cant get them to play hard for him. They do it on their terms and when they feel like it.

 

[got shoes]

Better game, but defense has to pick up. Clearly Dwight is not healthy, but he played excellent last night. Pau has to man up. 0-2 is what it is, but Mike Brown is not the coach and never have been the coach for this team. And the bench need to get it together. Lakers were within a few points and the bench folded over

 

[pmatic]

Basketball Prospectus:

Lakers Concerns

Evaluating Fixability

by Kevin Pelton

Two days into the 2012-13 NBA season, the favorites to win the Western Conference are 0-2 with a pair of losses to teams SCHOENE projected in the lottery. It's much too early to panic about the Los Angeles Lakers, but it's not too soon to start asking some hard questions about the weaknesses that have cropped up in those two games. In order of likelihood to be fixed, here are four early Lakers problems.

1. Turnovers have plagued the Lakers
On Wednesday night, the Lakers actually outshot the Portland Trail Blazers in terms of effective field-goal percentage and True Shooting Percentage. The Lakers also had more offensive rebounds and got to the free throw line more frequently. So the 10-point Portland advantage can be traced entirely to the last of the Four Factors: turnovers. The Lakers coughed it up 25 times in 111 plays, a monstrous rate even for an early-season game. The turnover woes reared their ugly head long before Steve Nash was forced out of the game following knee-on-knee contact just before halftime. (Nash tried to return after the break, but managed only a couple of plays before having to leave the court for good.)

The turnovers were largely a symptom of the same problems that plagued the Lakers offensively in their opener against Dallas. Players simply don't look comfortable with each other or in the simplified version of the Princeton offense Mike Brown and his offensive coordinator, newcomer Eddie Jordan, are attempting to install. The Lakers got good looks out of the offense in Portland and showed more variety, working in the post-ups, pick-and-rolls and Kobe Bryant isolations we expected. Some of the turnovers, like Ron Artest dribbling into steals, were preventable. Others are nothing more than players not knowing where to expect their teammates to be. That's why I consider this the least concerning of the Lakers' issues. Time should take care of it sooner rather than later.
Fixability: Inevitable

2. The bench is a disaster
Amazingly, three of the five Lakers starters posted positive plus-minus figures against the Blazers. Against Dallas, Pau Gasol (+3) was positive and only Dwight Howard (-13) saw the team outscored by more than five points while on the court. So the Lakers' problems thus far can be traced largely to their second unit, which was badly exploited during the team's 0-8 preseason. Back then, I dismissed concerns because Brown would never play all five reserves together during the regular season. Indeed, that group has taken the court for a total of 49 seconds, all at the end of the third quarter Wednesday.

However, Brown has used four reserves for extended periods, and those groups have struggled badly despite the presence of either Gasol or Howard in the middle. During Wednesday's game, the Lakers were outscored by at least 20 points with both reserve big men (Jordan Hill and Antawn Jamison) on the floor. It would be one thing if the Lakers were getting beaten by deep teams like Denver. However, Portland's second unit could be one of the league's worst. Aside from a brief Sasha Pavlovic hot streak, the Blazers got few contributions from their bench players. They were able to survive entirely because Terry Stotts made sure at least two quality starters were in alongside the reserves at any given time. Brown needs to adopt a similar mentality, alternating minutes for Bryant and Nash rather than resting them together. That plays to the strengths of both guards and would help out the overmatched bench. Brown needs to figure out the rest of his rotation, since Jamison has played both forward position and he's used both Devin Ebanks and Jodie Meeks as backup wings, but everything should fall into place after the star domino falls.
Fixability: High

3. The help defense has hurt
So far, we've buried the lede as far as the issues on display at the Rose Garden. Despite their turnovers, the Lakers scored at a perfectly acceptable rate, especially for the second game of the season. Their problem was getting stops at the other end. Portland shot better than 50 percent from the field, made nine three-pointers and committed just 12 turnovers.

As against Dallas, the Lakers' defense really broke down against dribble penetration. When Howard was forced to step up to help, that got the Lakers in rotations that weren't as crisp as they need to be. That produced open looks beyond the arc and opportunities on the offensive glass for the Blazers. A fully healthy Howard may clean up a lot of those plays. Despite his dominant stat line Wednesday (33 points, 14 rebounds, five steals), Howard wasn't his usual Defensive Player of the Year self. He was beaten at times for second chances and conceded opportunities at the rim teams won't get in a few short weeks. So part of this issue, like chemistry on offense, will fix itself with time. I still consider it a concern because of the last issue.
Fixability: Medium

4. Structural defensive defects at point guard and power forward
The fundamental proposition of the Lakers' frontcourt is that no team will be able to defend both Gasol and Howard, two of the league's top post players. At the same time, as the league gets smaller, quicker and more perimeter-minded at power forward, Gasol in particular has to be able to match up at the other end. Against teams like Dallas that go small, it's a question of which side wins the tradeoff. Portland never played small, but was still able to exploit Gasol because of LaMarcus Aldridge's ability as a midrange shooter. Five of Aldridge's nine shot attempts came from 19 feet or beyond, and none were contested. Elton Brand got similar looks the night before, though he made just one of four. Teams that can both defend Gasol and stretch the floor at the other end will give the Lakers problems as long as they pair Gasol and Howard.

Point guard defense is another long-running Laker issue, and adding Nash has hardly helped. After Darren Collison went for 17 points on 8-of-12 shooting Tuesday, rookie Damian Lillard destroyed the Lakers with dribble penetration throughout Wednesday's game. Lillard had 23 points and 11 assists, controlling the game with his ability to create. There are things the Lakers can do to gameplan around their defensive weaknesses, but they are never going to go away entirely. That's why I consider this the biggest of the concerns that have emerged about this Lakers team during its first two games. It's not insurmountable, but it could prove an Achilles heel.
Fixability: Low

Link

 

[welcometothetonezone]

such a shame to see all that talent on the court go to waste. i thought mike brown did a decent job last season, but judging by these last two games, the princeston offense is not working.

the bench is really concerning to me as well. they better step up to the plate once it's their turn to play, i also don't like how mike brown still hasn't figured out his 2nd unit. our defense is bad too.

it's a disgusting feeling right now to be a Laker fan. hopefully they can shake out of this 0-10 pre-season mentality :x

 

[ryda421]

was mike brown running the princeton offense last year?

 

[essential1]

Guys slow the panic a little bit.. There are ways that the team can be improved throughout the season.

 

[essential1]

Brown suggested that headaches created now by the offense would eventually disappear. "We could spread the floor and play pick-and-roll all the time ... but it will make us one-dimensional," he said. "And when we're in seven-game playoff series, for sure the later we get into the playoffs, they'll be able to take us out of the offense because we'll be so one-dimensional. What we're trying to do, we're trying to eliminate that and be hard to guard because it's a read-based offense."


"Every time down the floor — and if they want to, they can call Steve Nash and ask him — Steve Nash has the right to play pick-and-roll if he wants to," Brown said. "He has said it himself that he doesn't feel like he's as burdened because he doesn't have to make every play for everybody all the time with what we're trying to do. He can give it up and still have a chance to get it back. He's said that he feels as fresh as he's ever felt in his career because he doesn't feel the pressure of making every single play."

 

[CP1708]

However, Brown has used four reserves for extended periods, and those groups have struggled badly despite the presence of either Gasol or Howard in the middle. During Wednesday's game, the Lakers were outscored by at least 20 points with both reserve big men (Jordan Hill and Antawn Jamison) on the floor. It would be one thing if the Lakers were getting beaten by deep teams like Denver. However, Portland's second unit could be one of the league's worst. Aside from a brief Sasha Pavlovic hot streak, the Blazers got few contributions from their bench players. They were able to survive entirely because Terry Stotts made sure at least two quality starters were in alongside the reserves at any given time. Brown needs to adopt a similar mentality, alternating minutes for Bryant and Nash rather than resting them together. That plays to the strengths of both guards and would help out the overmatched bench. Brown needs to figure out the rest of his rotation, since Jamison has played both forward position and he's used both Devin Ebanks and Jodie Meeks as backup wings, but everything should fall into place after the star domino falls.

 

[tonelow]

Brown suggested that headaches created now by the offense would eventually disappear. "We could spread the floor and play pick-and-roll all the time ... but it will make us one-dimensional," he said. "And when we're in seven-game playoff series, for sure the later we get into the playoffs, they'll be able to take us out of the offense because we'll be so one-dimensional. What we're trying to do, we're trying to eliminate that and be hard to guard because it's a read-based offense."


"Every time down the floor — and if they want to, they can call Steve Nash and ask him — Steve Nash has the right to play pick-and-roll if he wants to," Brown said. "He has said it himself that he doesn't feel like he's as burdened because he doesn't have to make every play for everybody all the time with what we're trying to do. He can give it up and still have a chance to get it back. He's said that he feels as fresh as he's ever felt in his career because he doesn't feel the pressure of making every single play."

I may be in the minority but really hope they stick with it, I see the vision. Like I said, there are times when it looks almost unstoppable. Nash is still making passes that only he can, he just needs to figure out when to be more aggressive with his shot.

Im just frustrated by the effort. We already know that teams are going to be amped up to play the Lakers, you're going to get their best shot night in and night out. Our defense rt now is basically "ok, I'll half heartedly put a hand up and hopefully they miss, they cant make em all right?" I just dont see us being the aggresor and bringing it to them. Mike Brown has to find away to motivate these guys and set the tone.

 

[essential1]

CP I don't think we disagree on the rotation being more crisp... In order to do that the way we want (which I'm sure we almost exactly agree on), we need 1 immediate personnel change on the bench.

I posted a page back something that I think would work in doing that with the last step at the deadline being whoever is available.

 

[frenchblue23]

Wasn't Mike Brown hired for his defensive coaching abilities? If so, why has the defense looking as if they're a rec-league team??

The bench? Don't even get me started there.

 

[licensed to ball]

That rotation at the beginning of the 2nd quarter does need to be tweeked, im with you guys on that.

 

[CP1708]

There is ZERO reason to ever have 1 guy on the court, and 3 on the bench. Stotts in his first game had that figured out with less talent. Look at the bigger picture.

2 games, both close at half, both double digit fails in the second half. Adjustments? Fatigue?

2 games, high minutes for injured/aging players in a back to back. Sustainable? This will suddenly change going forward?


Why does my head coach still have problems with rotations and minutes? Do other coaches, with faaaaaaaar less talent struggle with these things as well?

 

[essential1]

The urge is to keep those guys in as long as possible, because the drop off is so big...

Yes there are ways to stagger the minutes... But at the same time, you're trying to create cohesion and chemistry... Which is tougher if you put them out there for less minutes together..

To fix this, it means we have to make a change of personnel at the backup PG & SF spots.

 

[ucm92]

Somebody needs to tell Gasol not to show out too much when guarding the PnR. He goes way beyond the 3pt line that's why he is always late going back to his man... I don't know that's just what I've observed from him ever since he became a Laker.

Yeah I agree. The lakers have always struggled with that though, more so in recent years. It's not all gasol's fault though, basically every team in the league now a days has a PG that can hoop and is with the goods, I mean the blazers have a brand new point and he's looking like he's gonna be a top 10 pg in the league already.  And every team runs pick and roll so it's gonna be a difficult thing to deal with. Especially when its him and no D nash trying to stop it. It's gotta be a team stop, with rotations and everything. Hopefully LA figures this out man. 

 

[hybridsoldier23]

I don't know why anyone is complaining about the offense last night. We scored over 100 points

The issue last night was clearly defense, hustle, and turnovers.

 

[essential1]

When they throw the pick .. All Gasol has to do is move away from the pick and make sure the PG doesn't drive.. He doesn't even have to show that much.. Just be between the PG & the basket... So the PG would have to go around Gasol, rather than just past him..


Let the PG take a 3 off of picks..

That's what defenses want... For the other team to take more 3s. Even a slightly contested 3 is better than a contested shot in the paint.


Also no drive means no ability for the team to over collapse and lead to a dish out to a wide open 3 in the corner... Which is the end of the 3s you don't want a team to take...


You limit drives off the pick.. You limit corner 3s.. And you basically limit what the team can do, and they will have to run strictly one on one offense, which even with our liabilities from some players, favors us.

 

[licensed to ball]

On the Pick and Rolls Pau has way too much space in front of him to be taking those 21.5 foot rainbow jumpers.
It frustrates me when he shoots those.

Sure, he makes them from time to time. I know he has a good jumper for a 7 footer, but with all that space in front of you drive that ****...or at least take a couple steps up and learn how to shoot in rhythm.

The one problem i notice with Pau is his jumper has to be set, i would like to see him shoot in rhythm sometimes.
Catch the ball, dribble it 2 times forward then plant your feet, jump and shoot.

I dont know if im asking for too much though, I mean he is 7 feet tall after all...but It would be a nice addition to his game.

 

[armorrig]

When they throw the pick .. All Gasol has to do is move away from the pick and make sure the PG doesn't drive.. He doesn't even have to show that much.. Just be between the PG & the basket... So the PG would have to go around Gasol, rather than just past him..
Let the PG take a 3 off of picks..
That's what defenses want... For the other team to take more 3s. Even a slightly contested 3 is better than a contested shot in the paint.
Also no drive means no ability for the team to over collapse and lead to a dish out to a wide open 3 in the corner... Which is the end of the 3s you don't want a team to take...
You limit drives off the pick.. You limit corner 3s.. And you basically limit what the team can do, and they will have to run strictly one on one offense, which even with our liabilities from some players, favors us.

That's what I'm trying to say. I don't know why he has to go over the pick to kind of block the Guard when almost all of them can easily go around him everytime he does it then he has to scramble back to his man who now has rolled with both his arms flailing around like gumby...after the team scores u see him doing that shrug with the hand gesture!! Typical scenario I've seen it so many times

 

[armorrig]

And other times they switch on the pnr and pau ends up on the PG and we know how that turns out most of the time...