Congress clears historic health care bill...

[cparkfresh]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

This dude is bonkers.

  

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by Burns1923

The health care bill is a government mandate that people purchase a good, with no respect to freedom or choice.

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

News flash to all:  It is not the federal government's job to mandate that people "help" other people.

On a Federal level... Please explain to me how our social security and Medicare work... Those get taken out of every one of my checks even though I do not reap the benefits.
On a state level... Many state governments MANDATE that a driver maintains car insurance.
On a local level... Municipalities MANDATE that a property owner pay taxes on their personal property so the municipality may provide goods and services to other people in the municipality. For example my tax dollars pay for the schools in my district. Even though I have no children.

It amazes me how people talk about what is and is not AMERICAN and ignore reality. IMHO, it is very sad that a basic right to adequate healthcare has been politicized to the point where people have convinced themselves that providing healthcare to all American citizens is an attack on America.

1 - find a time machine, go back to 1935 and thank FDR (a hardcore Progressive) for Social Security (an entitlement that the government has long pillaged and that is currently in tatters) and then set the dial for 1965 and thank Lyndon Johnson (also a hardcore Progressive, much further left than JFK) and his "Great Society" hackjob for Medicare/Medicaid (the epitome of a financial black hole).

2 - car insurance is a states' rights issue and should remain so.  Don't like it - you're free to go somewhere that doesn't require it.  Take note of the word "free", as in freedom.  There's no freedom in the health care bill.  It's one big Do-what-we-say-or-get-fined-or-possibly-face-jail-time-even-though-we-have-no-authority-to-mandate-this.

3 -Local taxes and a federal mandate are not the same at all.  People need to stop conflating the two.  Look at it this way - your local tax dollars are going towards subsidizing the public things you do use, such as roads. 

What's sad is that the founding of our country and principles and protections therein have been forgotten/ignored/shredded by an indifferent voting bloc incapable of virtue and critical thinking and a government solely interested in a power grab.  I'll say it once again:  It is NOT the government's place to "provide" Americans with health care.  It's just not.  Really, it's not.  It is not right for them to approach those who they deem have money (the $250k+ crowd) and decide "You have enough and we're telling you that you must give it to people who don't have as much."

Like I've said, the health care bill isn't about health care.  It's about the government increasing its control over people's individual lives, freedoms, and rights.

 

[jking0821]

I understand AirUpHere23's analogy. Yes it may be extreme but still true. American's are greedy and materialistic and power and money driven. And that is fine to a point. But the fact is that most of these rich people look down on the rest of society and think that they are better then them and do not want to help out at all.

If one of these rich CEO's would drive around in a 30K honda accord in stead of their 300k Maybach. The sheer difference in taking that hit right there could pay for the increase in any taxes you would have to pay extra for 30+ years. And i know people will say o thats rediculous. But that would make this nation better. In 50 years we will be owned by China. We will be in financial dismay the national debt is at 8.5 trillion (this is not including pending obligations such as social security for baby boomers when they retire) and it is growing.

It is just going to be sad to see when all of this hits the fan and everyone says how could we not see this coming just like the housing crash

 

[sdotcar619]

Diego, my phones not letting me quote, so I can't quote what you just said, but how you said the rich people need the poor people to stay in power is fine. The "rich" people went to school, picked up some knowledge in a field they knew nothing about, and did something with what they learned. It isn't their fault they did something to get where they are today, sure some people get to inherit big companies, but their parents/grandparents/whatever worked hard for THEIR families. I don't think that's right, but that's what they wanted.

I guess it just comes down to our personal views because we're on opposing sides. I just feel that taxing the rich is bogus and complete bull. I am not rich and neither are my parents, but we're supposed to have freedom of choice. I'm pretty sure if they set a percentage for all Americans to be taxed (as it would be fair), then this would seem better I guess? Like I said, I don't know too much and the only thing that pisses me off is how hard working individuals who racked up ridiculous loans are going to have to lose a big chunk of their income. #notcool

 

[sundoobie]

if someone made 500k how much more in taxes do they have to pay because of this bill? serious question....


Currently...

If your AGI is $500,000 that is after all deductions... your tax bill would be around $140,000 so about 28%.

If your AGI is $50,000 your tax bill is $4,000 so about 8%

After this bill that $500,000 would be......







the SAME... well at least until 2013.  Medicare tax will increase by .9% for taxpayers making over $250,000. So if you made $500,000, your medicare tax will increase by $2,250 (OH WOW

)  Also your investment income will rise by 3.8% (Capital gains, dividends, interest, royalties, rents and other unearned income.)

HovKid considering you say that you're making median household income, you probably don't have much in investment income right?  So no need to cry over the investment income tax rise, correct?  So really are you crying over a 0.9% increase in medicare?  Are you serious?

Read the facts on the bill... a ton of the provisions go into effect retroactively over the next 10 years

[h6]2010[/h6]
Coverage

• Subsidies begin for small businesses to provide coverage to employees.
• Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to children with pre-existing illness.
• Children permitted to stay on their parents' insurance policies until their 26th birthday.

[h6]2011[/h6]
Coverage

• Set up long-term care program under which people pay premiums into system for at least five years and become eligible for support payments if they need assistance in daily living.

Taxes and fees

• Drug makers face annual fee of $2.5 billion (rises in subsequent years).

[h6]2013[/h6]
Taxes and fees

• New Medicare taxes on individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and couples filing jointly earning more than $250,000 a year.
• Tax on wages rises to 2.35% from 1.45%.
• New 3.8% tax on unearned income such as dividends and interest.
• Excise tax of 2.9% imposed on sale of medical devices.

Cost control

• Medicare pilot program begins to test bundled payments for care, in a bid to pay for quality rather than quantity of services.

[h6]2014[/h6]
Coverage

• Create exchanges where people without employer coverage, as well as small businesses, can shop for health coverage. Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to anyone with pre-existing illness.
• Requirement begins for most people to have health insurance. Subsidies begin for lower and middle-income people. People at 133% of federal poverty level pay maximum of 3% of income for coverage. People at 400% of poverty level pay up to 9.5% of income. (Poverty level currently is about $22,000 for a family of four.)
• Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor, expands to all Americans with income up to 133% of federal poverty level.
• Subsidies for small businesses to provide coverage increase. Businesses with 10 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $25,000 receive tax credit of up to 50% of employer's contribution. Tax credits phase out for larger businesses.

Taxes and fees

• Employers with more than 50 employees that don't provide affordable coverage must pay a fine if employees receive tax credits to buy insurance. Fine is up to $3,000 per employee, excluding first 30 employees.
• Insurance industry must pay annual fee of $8 billion (rises in subsequent years).

Cost control

• Independent Medicare board must begin to submit recommendations to curb Medicare spending, if costs are rising faster than inflation.

[h6]2016[/h6]
Taxes and fees

• Penalty for those who don't carry coverage rises to 2.5% of taxable income or $695, whichever is greater.

[h6]2017[/h6]
Coverage

• Businesses with more than 100 employees can buy coverage on insurance exchanges, if state permits it.

[h6]2018[/h6]
Taxes and fees

• Excise tax of 40% imposed on health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage.

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by cguy610

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

This dude is bonkers.

  

 Slams like that don't bother me. 

I don't know if it's lack of brain power or intellectual laziness, but your attitude towards all this only reveals your lack of thinking and knowledge about the philosophies of our current president and democrat congress.

If you really believe this is about health care, you deserve to be scammed.


  

 

[juju]

Originally Posted by JayAmazin

Originally Posted by UTVOL23


Im one of the majority of physicians who oppose this bill in fact recent New England Journal of Medicine survey says 46% of  Primary Care Docs will consider leaving medicine if this passes.

First off  the goverment doesnt run anything efficiently. Medicare is already 32 trillion dollars in debt this will just expand medicare and more and more people will join the government funded insurance as com pannies lay people off of their insurance. For example Caterpillar recently said this bill will cost them $100M each year and would put in peril not only some of their 150K employees but also their benefits.

Second Medicare reimbursements are minimal compared to reimbursements from many private insurance companies thus the reason many doctors dont even take medicare patients because they cant afford it and with expected further 21% reimbursement cuts soon to be imposed on medicare fewer and fewer docs will treat pts with medicare.

Third this bill is far from fiscally responsible. The numbers given are all a hoax to make it look good. There will be no 1.3 trillion dollar surplusl. For the first decade the quoted cost of the bill is for 6 yrs of service but collects 10 yrs of taxes! Also the surplus is based on future medicare cuts to stay in the black and if they pass those cuts they wont have any docs to treat these patients especially specialists.

Thats because they are greedy. Primary Care docs make a fortune off of your basic care like doctor visits. These costs to the patient are outlandish. If you look on your insurance coverage you can see how much the costs are just to go to the doctor and see him/her. Yes you're glad that the insurance company covers it but the costs are very out of line.
  

im a couple pages late with this, but this is SO true. i don't have insurance, fortunetly my family is well off enough that when i do need stuff i can pay for it. i say pay because paying for something and affording it are two diff things. but over the years i have been so angry about primary care doctor visits its ridic. lets see... i've paid $120.00 to have my ears flushed; $120.00  to be told what i thought was a rash was just a bad acne patch; $140.00 to have a prescription for anti-biotics and cough medicine written (which cost another 70 dollars to fill); $120.00 dollars to have my tounge looked at because i thought i had a cancerous patch on the side; and $120.00 for a teeth cleaning.  thats close to 700 dollars for 1 presctiption written and 5, 10 minute visits with a doctor/dentist/ENT specialist. that is ridiculous to charge THOSE prices for what usually amounts to a flick of the wrist and some conversation.


  

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by cguy610

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

This dude is bonkers.

  

Slams like that don't bother me. 

I don't know if it's lack of brain power or intellectual laziness, but your attitude towards all this only reveals your lack of thinking and knowledge about the philosophies of our current president and democrat congress.

If you really believe this is about health care, you deserve to be scammed.


  
The Health Care bill's intent is to destroy America?

No wonder Republican news programs are considered comedy.  You people and your doom and gloom.  Everything from buying duck tapes to terrorists are out to eat our child's brain. 

 

[the notorious bum]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

bittersweet wrote:

---

The Notorious Bum wrote:

---

Isnt it odd that most of the people who are against it are old farts?

Yeah, it's very ironic. But the funny thing about it is, if they didn't have much money, they would want this bill passed.



 

55% opposed to this healthcare bill and the 73% who want it torn up and restarted 

Didn't know "old farts" had numbers like that.

     




If you saw some of the videos posted in here you would've seen most if not all were OLD and nearly all of them couldn't come up with with a reasonable answer to why they didn't want the bill passed. I seen one with a G.W. Bush hat, old fart was still stuck on Bush.

 

[airuphere23]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Again...I reiterate...when 9-11 occurred everyone believed in American patriotism and the strength and unity of our nation....as soon as a health care reform plan gets mentioned to help American citizens.....those ideals are nowhere to be found...ironic isn't it?

Your comparison is stupid.

9/11 was a terrorist attack.  Of course the country is going to be united.

The health care bill is a government mandate that people purchase a good, with no respect to freedom or choice.

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

News flash to all:  It is not the federal government's job to mandate that people "help" other people.

Or maybe you failed to comprehend the analogy I was indicating...

My point is and was..that Americans preach unity, strength, and compassion for our "fellow man" in tragic situations like 9-11...but where are the same ideals when the hard working guy down the street who works 12 hours a day with a family..but can't afford health insurance for him or his family? The answer is there is no unity.....only when it's convenient.

No.  I think you're confused by your poor "analogy".

What is this "unity, strength, and compassion" you're talking about with 9/11?  It was a terrorist attack.  Americans stood together as Americans and grieved.  Not to put too fine a point on it but that about sums it up what took place. 

It seems your definition of unity is that those "who have" less deserve (are entitled to) a handout from those who "have more".

You find in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where it says Americans are required by government to pay a specific portion of their income so that other people can have health coverage for free.

This health care bill isn't about "unity".  It isn't about "compassion".  It is about income redistribution (socialism) and setting the groundwork to make amends for what some believe is an unjust country as it was founded. 

...Apparently you and I are on 2 entirely different pages. I'm not talking about what 9-11 was...of course it was a terrorist attack! I'm talking about the after effects of the situation and how America found these "new" ideals. Everyone was proudly displaying American flags....like this country is all about the betterment of the nation as a whole. When this bill got announced, it benefited the less fortunate (lower salary class) people...The American "values" and "ideals" were not at all apparent as it relates to helping our "fellow man".

I would assume that a true American shows support for the betterment of his country and its people....but I guess not in this case. Salaries divide us once again...we're not a true united nation until a catastrophe occurs...then we apparently have our "epiphany". Basically, what I'm saying is that this country is a mockery of its core values when it really counts....as I said before, money always divides us when a bill gets passed that affects the social classes...

As soon as a attack happens, we're all on the same page....I know I can't be the only one who thinks this way...

 

[black jesus]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

if someone made 500k how much more in taxes do they have to pay because of this bill? serious question....

Currently...

If your AGI is $500,000 that is after all deductions... your tax bill would be around $140,000 so about 28%.

If your AGI is $50,000 your tax bill is $4,000 so about 8%

After this bill that $500,000 would be......







the SAME... well at least until 2013.  Medicare tax will increase by .9% for taxpayers making over $250,000. So if you made $500,000, your medicare tax will increase by $2,250 (OH WOW

)  Also your investment income will rise by 3.8% (Capital gains, dividends, interest, royalties, rents and other unearned income.)

HovKid considering you say that you're making median household income, you probably don't have much in investment income right?  So no need to cry over the investment income tax rise, correct?  So really are you crying over a 0.9% increase in medicare?  Are you serious?

so they're crying over a months payment at their local country club....i figured it wasn't something too crazy....the way they were crying i thought this was gonna cost them 10 or 20k

 

[essential1]

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.




  

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

  

No prob.  November 2 it is.

 

[diego]

Originally Posted by JustScoreda100

 
 

Originally Posted by Diego

Originally Posted by SdotCAR619

People in this thread talk about how not everyone can do it, I feel like anyone can. You look at the people who do make it big from "ghettos" or low-income communities and these are the people who focus on school, don't go out to parties and just give school 110%, so don't say not everyone can do it. Anyone can do anything with hard work.

Those single mothers work hard, yeah, but you can also say they had the choice to have a kid. I know it sounds ignorant, but its the truth. I applaud those women who work hard to try to give their children opportunities they weren't able to have.

Taxing the rich more for the "better" of America? The hell, these guys worked hard to better their own lives! They needa just set a certain percent that each American gets deducted from their checks!

 People with power (money) like to talk out the $%%.
Your false "If I could do it so can you" speech does not amuse me.

They know damn well that in order for them to stay with the power it is to their benefit that not everyone does "it". Rich people need to have a lower class in this country in order to keep the power. As more and more people join their salary bracket, their power gets divided even further.

Remember when the the drop out rates in the hood were high as hell, how far a high school diploma could get you?
Now that everyone is graduating high school and college education is stressed, suddenly high school diplomas mean nothing. As more and more people graduate college, those college degrees are treated like a high school diploma.

These false motivational speeches from these people with money mean absolutely nothing to me cause theyre the first ones crying when they have to help someone other than themselves.

I think you are confusing the rich with the wealthy. The wealthy own fortune 500 companies and set the agenda of our government. Taxing the "rich" throws more obstacles in the way of their closest competition.

You're point on the decrease in the value of college degrees is a good one. But you have to ask yourself questions. Who stressed the issue of increasing college enrollment? Who removed technical training from high schools across America? Who owns the media outlets that propagated the issues? Who buys the politicians that pass these legislation?

The wealthy and ultra wealthy have always waged a war against upper middle class and poor Americans to keep their strangle hold on the wealth of this country. By targeting people who earn 250k to 1m your mostly targeting the people who worked to earn their money and became successful which is not fair.

Statements like this have been made repeatedly through this thread and wether it was done purposely or not it implies that everyone who is not succesful did not work hard.
The bottom line is that not everyone can be a lawyer, not everyone can be a doctor, hell Ill even go as far as saying not everyone can make 6 figures.
Teachers might break 6 figures after 20 years of service, does that mean they dont work hard because theyre not as succesful as a doctor or a lawyer or any other hard working person who makes six figures?

The point is that in order for this country to continue running on these capitalistic ideals that most of us like, we NEED to have some people at the top and others at the bottom. Even if youre not at the top and youre "middle class" as HovKid likes to call himself, you still need those people below you because otherwise what are you in the middle of?

Succesful people like being called succesful, they like the fact that they can drive cars that most of America cant afford, they enjoy the designer clothes, they enjoy the nice houses, the minute that everyone can afford these things....well theyre njust not as exclusive and fancy anymore.

   

  

 

[justscoreda100]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by cguy610

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

This dude is bonkers.

  

 Slams like that don't bother me. 

I don't know if it's lack of brain power or intellectual laziness, but your attitude towards all this only reveals your lack of thinking and knowledge about the philosophies of our current president and democrat congress.

If you really believe this is about health care, you deserve to be scammed.


  

I dont see how it was a "bonkers" statement at all. 9/11 was a direct attack on our way of life while the federal mandates included in the health care bill is a direct assault to the American constitution. I don't think that's too hard to grasp.

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

if someone made 500k how much more in taxes do they have to pay because of this bill? serious question....

Currently...

If your AGI is $500,000 that is after all deductions... your tax bill would be around $140,000 so about 28%.

If your AGI is $50,000 your tax bill is $4,000 so about 8%

After this bill that $500,000 would be......







the SAME... well at least until 2013.  Medicare tax will increase by .9% for taxpayers making over $250,000. So if you made $500,000, your medicare tax will increase by $2,250 (OH WOW

)  Also your investment income will rise by 3.8% (Capital gains, dividends, interest, royalties, rents and other unearned income.)

HovKid considering you say that you're making median household income, you probably don't have much in investment income right?  So no need to cry over the investment income tax rise, correct?  So really are you crying over a 0.9% increase in medicare?  Are you serious?

Read the facts on the bill... a ton of the provisions go into effect retroactively over the next 10 years

[h6]2010[/h6]
Coverage

• Subsidies begin for small businesses to provide coverage to employees.
• Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to children with pre-existing illness.
• Children permitted to stay on their parents' insurance policies until their 26th birthday.

[h6]2011[/h6]
Coverage

• Set up long-term care program under which people pay premiums into system for at least five years and become eligible for support payments if they need assistance in daily living.

Taxes and fees

• Drug makers face annual fee of $2.5 billion (rises in subsequent years).

[h6]2013[/h6]
Taxes and fees

• New Medicare taxes on individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and couples filing jointly earning more than $250,000 a year.
• Tax on wages rises to 2.35% from 1.45%.
• New 3.8% tax on unearned income such as dividends and interest.
• Excise tax of 2.9% imposed on sale of medical devices.

Cost control

• Medicare pilot program begins to test bundled payments for care, in a bid to pay for quality rather than quantity of services.

[h6]2014[/h6]
Coverage

• Create exchanges where people without employer coverage, as well as small businesses, can shop for health coverage. Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to anyone with pre-existing illness.
• Requirement begins for most people to have health insurance. Subsidies begin for lower and middle-income people. People at 133% of federal poverty level pay maximum of 3% of income for coverage. People at 400% of poverty level pay up to 9.5% of income. (Poverty level currently is about $22,000 for a family of four.)
• Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor, expands to all Americans with income up to 133% of federal poverty level.
• Subsidies for small businesses to provide coverage increase. Businesses with 10 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $25,000 receive tax credit of up to 50% of employer's contribution. Tax credits phase out for larger businesses.

Taxes and fees

• Employers with more than 50 employees that don't provide affordable coverage must pay a fine if employees receive tax credits to buy insurance. Fine is up to $3,000 per employee, excluding first 30 employees.
• Insurance industry must pay annual fee of $8 billion (rises in subsequent years).

Cost control

• Independent Medicare board must begin to submit recommendations to curb Medicare spending, if costs are rising faster than inflation.

[h6]2016[/h6]
Taxes and fees

• Penalty for those who don't carry coverage rises to 2.5% of taxable income or $695, whichever is greater.

[h6]2017[/h6]
Coverage

• Businesses with more than 100 employees can buy coverage on insurance exchanges, if state permits it.

[h6]2018[/h6]
Taxes and fees

• Excise tax of 40% imposed on health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage.

Wow

You pass off that 3.8% rise in capital gains taxes as if its insignificant. That tax alone will cost a lot of people money. It even hits small time traders like me who play around with penny stocks. Now I have to increase the risks I take in order to offset this tax increase while I'm already getting killed by brokerage fees.

It will also have an effect on the stock market because people may choose other investment vehicles to get the returns they're used to with out increasing their risks. The stock market is already fragile as is and may be up for correction. I wouldn't be surprised if this tax speeds up that correction.

 

[heartofthacity]

Originally Posted by PoloLax


In the rent thread you said you moved to one of the communties in Long Island with a top 3 school district. We both know Long Island is like Connecticut, you don't need a top 3 school district, that just means the town you live in is way more expensive then a town with a school district ranked say 15th, for the most part. You can save a boat load more money moving to a less expensive down with a still GREAT school district for your children, but you would rather sit here and look for ways to not be taxed so you can have more money to spend that you don't necessarily need if you lived differently.

I agreed with some of your post (ie. how middle class people have it the worse,) but I went to High School in L.I., and had mad people in other HS's and I PROMISE you that school districts are not all the same. The difference in districts between Nassau and Suffolk is generally huge, and even more within.. I definitely see why someone would want a top 3 school. Aside form academics, some schools have fewer extra-curricular activities and the like.
 
But yo LMFAO at HOV kid saying 250k is middle class.
IMO 100k alone is upper middle class, I'm sure statistics would further my point.

I don't really have much to say about the bill because I didn't read it lols

Oh and yo before I started college i had to get a physical, and since it was in the period after my insurance finished I had to pay it out of pocket.
So before "clearance" for lab tests I had to get a simple check-up. I go to my doctor. He checks my BP, weighs/takes my height, checks my pulse or some crap, and sends me on my way.
It cost me $90. It took like 20 minutes. GTFOHWTBS.

 

[cparkfresh]

Originally Posted by JustScoreda100

Not firing shots at you, but you should read up on the constitution.

Medicare and SS being taken out of your check is a tax which the federal government has the authority to do.

The constitution clearly outlines the authority of the federal government and transfers all other powers which were not given to the federal government to the states.

So, bills like these that seek to expand the role of the government beyond its initial scope are attacks on the constitution as well as attacks on state sovereignty.

Seriously... Are you implying that social security and medicare are within the framework of the Constitution and Health Care is not?

Thats a serious question... No Shots.

Originally Posted by Burns1923

1 - find a time machine, go back to 1935 and thank FDR (a hardcore Progressive) for Social Security (an entitlement that the government has long pillaged and that is currently in tatters) and then set the dial for 1965 and thank Lyndon Johnson (also a hardcore Progressive, much further left than JFK) and his "Great Society" hackjob for Medicare/Medicaid (the epitome of a financial black hole).

You are 100% correct. I have no problem with a person being against a more progressive movement. As a matter of fact I am against single payer. However, I do not look this bill is not a government takeover of healthcare. I look at it as an expansion of our current system.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

  

No prob.  November 2 it is.

Republicans would have picked up seats in the house & senate no matter what.. It is called history.. Anytime a party has a huge majority in the Congress they lose seats....

But it was more of a you have just made the dumbest statement ever..


You really have no grasp of this country at all.

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by cguy610

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

This dude is bonkers.

  

Slams like that don't bother me. 

I don't know if it's lack of brain power or intellectual laziness, but your attitude towards all this only reveals your lack of thinking and knowledge about the philosophies of our current president and democrat congress.

If you really believe this is about health care, you deserve to be scammed.


  

The Health Care bill's intent is to destroy America?

No wonder Republican news programs are considered comedy.  You people and your doom and gloom.  Everything from buying duck tapes to terrorists are out to eat our child's brain. 

Feel free to continue your willful ignorance.

I love people's smug responses.  The multiple emoticons... all of it. 

Typical left wing tactic - demonize and frame your opponent.

Enjoy the +*% kicking this year and in '12.

 

[sundoobie]

Wow

You pass off that 3.8% rise in capital gains taxes as if its insignificant. That tax alone will cost a lot of people money. It even hits small time traders like me who play around with penny stocks. Now I have to increase the risks I take in order to offset this tax increase while I'm already getting killed by brokerage fees.

It will also have an effect on the stock market because people may choose other investment vehicles to get the returns they're used to with out increasing their risks. The stock market is already fragile as is and may be up for correction. I wouldn't be surprised if this tax speeds up that correction.
Sure it's significant for RICH folks considering this is UNEARNED income that they really need to feed their children.  

So you're saying this will cost a lot of people money?  So if I am a millionaire and I have $500,000 sitting in a mutual fund and it made $10,000 in dividends, am I going to worry about $380 in additional tax?  Because OH GEE $380 more in taxes is really going to force me to give up my way of life. 

Give me a break.

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by JustScoreda100

  
I dont see how it was a "bonkers" statement at all. 9/11 was a direct attack on our way of life while the federal mandates included in the health care bill is a direct assault to the American constitution. I don't think that's too hard to grasp.

Honestly, I'm not going to debate with a person who compares 9/11 to the health care bill.  Take care man.

  

 

[letsgetit22]

Originally Posted by Burns1923


Feel free to continue your willful ignorance.

I love people's smug responses.  The multiple emoticons... all of it. 

Typical left wing tactic - demonize and frame your opponent.

Enjoy the +*% kicking this year and in '12.

if you're a republican then you have some nerves.

  

Enjoy the +*% kicking this year and in '12.
 

didn't republicans say that in 08?

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Again...I reiterate...when 9-11 occurred everyone believed in American patriotism and the strength and unity of our nation....as soon as a health care reform plan gets mentioned to help American citizens.....those ideals are nowhere to be found...ironic isn't it?

Your comparison is stupid.

9/11 was a terrorist attack.  Of course the country is going to be united.

The health care bill is a government mandate that people purchase a good, with no respect to freedom or choice.

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

News flash to all:  It is not the federal government's job to mandate that people "help" other people.

Or maybe you failed to comprehend the analogy I was indicating...

My point is and was..that Americans preach unity, strength, and compassion for our "fellow man" in tragic situations like 9-11...but where are the same ideals when the hard working guy down the street who works 12 hours a day with a family..but can't afford health insurance for him or his family? The answer is there is no unity.....only when it's convenient.

No.  I think you're confused by your poor "analogy".

What is this "unity, strength, and compassion" you're talking about with 9/11?  It was a terrorist attack.  Americans stood together as Americans and grieved.  Not to put too fine a point on it but that about sums it up what took place. 

It seems your definition of unity is that those "who have" less deserve (are entitled to) a handout from those who "have more".

You find in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where it says Americans are required by government to pay a specific portion of their income so that other people can have health coverage for free.

This health care bill isn't about "unity".  It isn't about "compassion".  It is about income redistribution (socialism) and setting the groundwork to make amends for what some believe is an unjust country as it was founded. 

...Apparently you and I are on 2 entirely different pages. I'm not talking about what 9-11 was...of course it was a terrorist attack! I'm talking about the after effects of the situation and how America found these "new" ideals. Everyone was proudly displaying American flags....like this country is all about the betterment of the nation as a whole. When this bill got announced, it benefited the less fortunate (lower salary class) people...The American "values" and "ideals" were not at all apparent as it relates to helping our "fellow man".

I would assume that a true American shows support for the betterment of his country and its people....but I guess not in this case. Salaries divide us once again...we're not a true united nation until a catastrophe occurs...then we apparently have our "epiphany". Basically, what I'm saying is that this country is a mockery of its core values when it really counts....as I said before, money always divides us when a bill gets passed that affects the social classes...

As soon as a attack happens, we're all on the same page....I know I can't be the only one who thinks this way...

No, I just think you're misreading 9/11.  Standing in pride and solidarity (post-9/11) has nothing to do with federal government telling citizens to surrender more of their income so that others can get health coverage for free.  Post-9/11 wasn't about "betterment" or a "reformation" of America or American values.

Helping someone is one thing.  The government taxing you to buy someone else's health coverage is something else altogether.

Income redistribution isn't compassion. It's socialism.  The United States is a Representative Republic.

I've yet to hear one person other than myself raise the question: If these 32 million get access to health coverage on someone else's dime, why would they ever have a reason to buy it themselves? 

It's a form of welfare.  But we can't have any talk in here about personal responsibility or personal decisions.  We're just supposed to hand over our money.
  

 

[letsgetit22]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Wow

You pass off that 3.8% rise in capital gains taxes as if its insignificant. That tax alone will cost a lot of people money. It even hits small time traders like me who play around with penny stocks. Now I have to increase the risks I take in order to offset this tax increase while I'm already getting killed by brokerage fees.

It will also have an effect on the stock market because people may choose other investment vehicles to get the returns they're used to with out increasing their risks. The stock market is already fragile as is and may be up for correction. I wouldn't be surprised if this tax speeds up that correction.

Sure it's significant for RICH folks considering this is UNEARNED income that they really need to feed their children.  

So you're saying this will cost a lot of people money?  So if I am a millionaire and I have $500,000 sitting in a mutual fund and it made $10,000 in dividends, am I going to worry about $380 in additional tax?  Because OH GEE $380 more in taxes is really going to force me to give up my way of life. 

Give me a break.




you mean to tell me that the whole time they've been crying about a 0.9% tax increase? And a 3.8% increase on unearned money?

 

[kicksnbeats]

Most americans are too unreliable and dumb for health care reform.  Maybe when people stop having kids in high school/early college, doing meth/cocaine, taking out 50k+ in student loans for a philosophy degree or just being downright lazy and reliant on others is when we'll see real progress in this nation.  Just because it works in other countries doesn't mean it will work here because you need to look at the people and societies as a whole in those nations that have universal healthcare.  They are nowhere near as messed up as we are socially and economically.