CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER SOLIDER (04/04/14) - BluRay 09/09/14

[jaypesoz]

Well, we'll agree to disagree but since you think my idea is so absurd with somebody else being Captain America. My whole point is that 616 and in turn movie-verse Cap are pretty bland vanilla just like Superman, which is why they're typically boring to people who aren't in John Cena's fan-base. Just look at Avengers, Iron Man practically gave Cap the leadership role and other than Black Widow and Hawkeye, who have to listen to him, all he did was tell Thor to throw some lightning and for Hulk to do whatever he wanted

Using your ideas of a Red Skull revenge plot, Cap 3 could start with him just wanting to stop being a superhero since he's exhausted from whatever happens in Avengers 2 and live a normal life away from being the symbol and disappears to find himself. Without anyone knowing, Bucky can take up the mantle for abit and while Red Skull tries to destroy the image of Captain America, and all the good he stands for, Bucky can do things to push the envelope between what's morally right and wrong and even cross the lines to "protect America" or whatever. There's plenty of moments you can choose from from the Ultimates series. You can even have Falcon in there looking for Steve to come back or something. and then boom, superhero teamup at the end. There you go, I just literally gave Disney Captain America 3 and better than anything from the 70 years of boring Cap issues.

 

[rfx45]

I don't think it's absurd but you just haven't provided a valid point why Bucky should take reigns as Cap since Evans is doing a good job. I mean we are 2 films in and you want to replace him already with Bucky? How do we even know they would adapt the Ultimate Bucky as Caps if they do do that?

And at this point, Evans is Cap just like Hemsworth is Thor and RDJ is Stark. No point in getting rid of them right now. Plus not everyone is too deep into Caps story to know that there have been other Captain Americas out there.

Cap hasn't been vanilla like Supes at all, in the movies or the comics and that is coming from a Superman fanboy. He isn't boring at all, especially at this point. Hell people are wetting themselves from the trailer of this film alone. He has shown way more personality in the first film and Avengers, he argued with Stark and stood his ground while not being the most powerful.

IM didn't just give him the leadership role, it's always been him, Stark just respected him enough in the end so he listened. They've always had conflicts but at the end of the day, IM listens to Cap because he is the leader. Simple as that. He did exactly what his role is in the Avengers, I am not sure what else you were looking for. He was the most respected by all, even by the Thunder God. I am not sure your expectations are, I mean Whedon perfectly captured his role and what he does but just because he didn't tell Thor every single thing that he should do that he isn't a good leader? Because all he said was to "light the bastards up" and he just tells Hulk to smash? Did you want Whedon to spend 5 minutes of them huddling and Cap explaining how things will go?

 

[lamekilla]

I loved the way Whedon captured caps persona in avengers. Even though iron man is the mouth of the group, cap is the leader

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

Eh, I don't want to see Bucky as Cap in the movies at all. Cool for the comics but I'll rock with Evans for now. It's okay for a plot line in the movie but not multiple movies where you kill off Cap.

Also Ult. Cap is lame.

Yes Cap's rogue gallery is lame (I really don't care for Zemo or Skull I'd rather him take on AIM, Hydra, ULTIMATUM, etc.) but if Marvel keeps being smart they'll just keep treating Cap movies as action summer blockbusters where he takes down terrorists and other steal-a-bunch-of-money/destroy a city/ransom the gov't type villains with just him in a superhero costume.

 

[jsbrown]

I am really looking forward to this Cap. The first movie was kinda of a let down. I just hope in the 2nd movie there will be so cool cameos.

 

[jaypesoz]

I don't think it's absurd but you just haven't provided a valid point why Bucky should take reigns as Cap since Evans is doing a good job. I mean we are 2 films in and you want to replace him already with Bucky? How do we even know they would adapt the Ultimate Bucky as Caps if they do do that?

And at this point, Evans is Cap just like Hemsworth is Thor and RDJ is Stark. No point in getting rid of them right now. Plus not everyone is too deep into Caps story to know that there have been other Captain Americas out there.

Cap hasn't been vanilla like Supes at all, in the movies or the comics and that is coming from a Superman fanboy. He isn't boring at all, especially at this point. Hell people are wetting themselves from the trailer of this film alone. He has shown way more personality in the first film and Avengers, he argued with Stark and stood his ground while not being the most powerful.

IM didn't just give him the leadership role, it's always been him, Stark just respected him enough in the end so he listened. They've always had conflicts but at the end of the day, IM listens to Cap because he is the leader. Simple as that. He did exactly what his role is in the Avengers, I am not sure what else you were looking for. He was the most respected by all, even by the Thunder God. I am not sure your expectations are, I mean Whedon perfectly captured his role and what he does but just because he didn't tell Thor every single thing that he should do that he isn't a good leader? Because all he said was to "light the bastards up" and he just tells Hulk to smash? Did you want Whedon to spend 5 minutes of them huddling and Cap explaining how things will go?

Since New years over, we can continue this discussion. I never said Evans is doing a bad job, I was just merely stating the fact that after Cap 2, I really don't see much more character development and I was just thinking ahead. Isn't TFA the lowest grossing Marvel/Disney film? I thought TFA as great but if he isn't vanilla, then why aren't people checking his movie out? I was just saying why not shake things up abit and do something, anything, to get people more interested in him. Anybody can have a good trailer, just look at Wolverine Origins. Dope trailer, horrible movie and STILL grossed more money than TFA.

And I still fail to see how he inspired any of the Avengers other than Coulson and a police officer. Cap was about to be given the business by Loki, but IM comes in. He argues with Stark about how he wasn't willing to be a hero but yet, Stark pretty much saved the Helicarrier and again at the end with the missile, I don't remember Rogers giving him any commands to do either and it was all Starks instinct. He also argued with Stark about not letting the Hulk "out", but at the end, it's Stark who tells Banner where to be and all Cap does is to tell Hulk to be himself, so again, Stark was right all along. I'm giving pretty accurate examples here, I just want concrete evidence as to how Cap became the leader other than Iron Man just letting him have it and/or Disney/Whedon putting Cap in the middle of all the group shots. I mean, did you hear all the ether/jokes Tony had on Steve in the Helicarrier?

Yes Cap's rogue gallery is lame (I really don't care for Zemo or Skull I'd rather him take on AIM, Hydra, ULTIMATUM, etc.) but if Marvel keeps being smart they'll just keep treating Cap movies as action summer blockbusters where he takes down terrorists and other steal-a-bunch-of-money/destroy a city/ransom the gov't type villains with just him in a superhero costume.

Again, as much as I'd be ok with this, you can't be a summer blockbuster staple if your movie doesn't gross summer numbers and Cap deserves better than such a simplistic plot like that.

 

[rfx45]

You are over analyzing the film while also undermining everything else, you underestimate Cap too much. The film was written as such to move the story along and get everyone together, not to make Cap look weak. I mean you want Cap to really tell Stark, " Hey Tony, you're just standing there, how about you go fix the propellers? Huh?!! Go! muthaf'er!!!!" ????

IM did not let Cap be the leader, I mean really, what did you want to happen? Cap knock the helmet off of Stark before he starts listening to him?

Avengers is such a simple film yet it seems you want to hold your hand and walk you through the film.



As for Box Office, it's not the lowets, TFA cost $140m and made $370m while Incredible Hulk cost $150m and only made $263m, does that mean Hulk is more bland and more vanilla than Cap? First Hulk also cost $140 and made even less than IH with $245m. I mean if box office is all you look at, then if This movie makes the same as Thor that will change your mind? Because this film is looking at that kind of numbers just because it is after the Avengers and will lead to Avenger 2.


Again if you do not know where they can go after this film, then maybe you should wait? Read more of his books? Like I said before if you do not want a hero stopping a villain from world domination then look for another genre to watch.



I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you though because it has ran it's course and if you will stick to your understanding of the Avengers film where everyone just gave up and let Cap order them just for sh*ts and giggles then there really is no more reasoning. You just plainly hate Cap and that's that.

 

[rfx45]

Watching Avengers on Epix right now too.

 

[blastercombo]

The more I watch the avengers the more mediocre it becomes. The first half is almost unbearable to me.

 

[rfx45]

Happens to all movies. TDK is still my favorite but I can't really watch it every week anymore, it does become tedious. Got tired of Begins too when it started showing on a monthly basis but then after not seeing it for a year or two, it was nice to watch again and I coulnd't turn away in that first viewing after a long hiatus from it.

 

[jaypesoz]

You're wrong, Cap is one of my favorite comic characters and CA:TFA is actually my most favorite Marvel movie. I'm not overly analyzing anything and I'm having merely having this discussion because there's no movie news to talk about. Remember, All this started because I said it'd be cool to see Bucky become Cap for awhile because like Tay said, in the 70 years of Cap stories, this guy doesn't really have any classic story arcs.

At the end of the day, it goes without saying that these films are purely entertainment and as much as it's all about good guys stopping bad guys, why can't I speculate past this film and mention what I feel may be good ideas to bring more excitement to his character? Worse-case scenario, it'll bring some discussion in an otherwise dead thread about a movie that's a few months away.

Also, I don't know if anything I've written in here can be misconstrued as hate in any way, my examples have all been pretty down the middle and specific, but I guess it's hate because they don't agree with your opinion?

 

[rfx45]

No, it seems hate because seem passionate about it getting rid of Steve Rogers, if he is your favorite then it must be for a reason but all you've said is that he is vanilla with crappy 70 year history. I guess you were a fan of what you call, bland and boring stories then? I mean if you can't see past his 70 year history where they can take this character then I am not really convinced you are a fan, even less as your favorite. I mean I am a huge Superman fan and I do talk crap about his films and comics and his personality but I stay optimistic with him and that they can continue making a film with him and not Superboy.

And yeah your examples are specific but they are also a bit of a reach. Like I've said over and over again, you want Cap to tell IM what to do in every second and every minute of the film? That will prove that he is a leader? Or you want Cap to beat the crap out of Stark before he says, "ok Cap, lead the way!" I mean why does it all have to be spelled out like that for you? You really want Cap to tell Hulk to do something else other than "Smash!" That was for the fans for sure but what else do you want him to say?



Why do people always say it's hate when they disagree with them? It's hate because they do not agree... I'm mad because I do not agree... etc... I always get this and it's funny.

At the end of the day, this is a discussion of different sides but I genuinely feel like you hate Cap by the way you are writing about him. He had one solo film, Avengers is an ensemble movie so it really wouldn't count because Whedon has to fit all those characters and personalities into a 2 hour film. Caps second solo film isn't even out and yes you can speculate all you want but it seems like you haven't even given it a chance. See the movie before suggesting a change, I'd understand if this was Maguires SM3 film, the film sucked so much that it feels the series has ran it's course so a big change is required, but no, this is a second film that isn't even out yet.

And again, I still see no valid point that you presented (in my opinion) on why Bucky should take on Caps mantle. That story I laid out where you just replaced Rogers with Bucky, I don't see it any better because I'd still rather see Evans on the screen than Bucky. You simply have not convinced or changed my opinion on it, simple as that. Making Bucky Caps is like people suggesting JGL continue the Bats franchise as Batman as Robin, but it simply isn't a Batman film w/o Bruce Wayne.

 

[jaypesoz]

You just plainly hate Cap and that's that.

Also, I don't know if anything I've written in here can be misconstrued as hate in any way...but I guess it's hate because they don't agree with your opinion?

Why do people always say it's hate when they disagree with them? It's hate because they do not agree... I'm mad because I do not agree... etc... I always get this and it's funny.

Clearly, we're be going around in circles....

moving on....

Will there be a Superbowl spot for this?


But for the record.....I'm a Cap fan because he was the best character in the Avengers arcade game in the 90's and nostalgia has something to do with it.

 

[rfx45]

You just plainly hate Cap and that's that.

Also, I don't know if anything I've written in here can be misconstrued as hate in any way...but I guess it's hate because they don't agree with your opinion?

Why do people always say it's hate when they disagree with them? It's hate because they do not agree... I'm mad because I do not agree... etc... I always get this and it's funny.

Clearly, we're be going around in circles....

I guess you didn't read my first paragraph (or the whole post) on why I feel and misconstrued your hatred for him? And why I thought you "plainly hate cap"?

But yes, let's move on.

 

[rfx45]

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[tay1]

There's plenty to do with Cap. We just don't know what it is, but there's plenty.

Sending him to Wakanda and having him fight alongside the Black Panther is one thing.

Oh Avengers still is my favorite cbm of all that. There's no better shot I can think of than the shot where they're all assembled for the first time and the camera circles them.

 

[rfx45]

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[rfx45]

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[lamekilla]

The super soldier

 

[rfx45]

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[crazy ebw]

Damn they make Scarlett look beautiful.

 

[lamekilla]

Scarlett Johansson is flames!

 

[Fozz]

Scarlett...

 

[bamez]

We need another Hulk movie.

 

[WASPS ANDD ASPS]

scarlett lookin like she jumpin rope