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Yeah gender can change to what someone identifies at but the female sex can still only get pregnant. So maybe change the terms to female instead of women or a more accurate term.
Can We Have A Serious, Mature Discussion on Abortion?
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rusty shackelford,
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Interested to know how many people in here have children? Watching my wife grow, carry, and deliver our daughter.. I can say I do not believe a man has a right to choose. Her body will never be the same. Her internal organs will never be the same. Her body went through a lot during pregnancy and after birth. A LOT. It is not easy. A man will never understand what that is like. Not to mention being put on bed rest, being let go from her job because she couldn't walk and needed to be in bed...and the countless other things that will change in your life during the process.
I am pro choice. I believe every single abortion decision is a personal decision with thousands of surrounding health/environmental factors that a women has to weigh to make her decision. I think removing access to abortions is wrong.
I am pro choice. I believe every single abortion decision is a personal decision with thousands of surrounding health/environmental factors that a women has to weigh to make her decision. I think removing access to abortions is wrong.
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I have a daughter and I was there during the process and agree with much of what you said. I think everyone (in here at least) is in agreement as it relates to any decision made for medical reasons. I agree making all abortions illegal is wrong. Full stop.
With that said, I would have been truly devastated if my wife aborted my daughter. That’s the piece of the discussion that is being missed (ignored?). At what point during a pregnancy is it too late to make an abortion decision barring exceptions for medical reasons, rape, or incest. Personally I think it’s the second trimester. I think it’s an extreme position to say that abortions should be okay at say 8 months even if there’s no medical concern, rape, or incest.
As a practical matter, I think every woman will be able to find a doctor that says there’s an underlying medical concern that justifies the abortion. Just like most folks can find a doctor that says there’s a need for medicinal marijuana and/or adderall. Late term abortions are also exceedingly rare, so I think the area people have the most disagreement on only accounts for about 4% of abortions.
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Alotta these folks that wanna shut down abortions are the same ones who were crying over wearing masks cuz of “personal freedom” and “muh rights” 
This is all dumb, let the ladies choose what they want do with their bodies…No abortions ain’t gon stop ppl from smashing and having unplanned/unwanted pregnancies, and This country ain’t gon care or look out for the children once their born
It’s super wild to me that the ones who want to get rid of abortions the most (conservatives/republicans) hate social programs and don’t want a spend money on anything that’s not related to big business…That and the hypocritical freedom thing they be yelling should be enough push back on this issue for anybody that’s not in that group or has some common sense
This is all dumb, let the ladies choose what they want do with their bodies…No abortions ain’t gon stop ppl from smashing and having unplanned/unwanted pregnancies, and This country ain’t gon care or look out for the children once their born
It’s super wild to me that the ones who want to get rid of abortions the most (conservatives/republicans) hate social programs and don’t want a spend money on anything that’s not related to big business…That and the hypocritical freedom thing they be yelling should be enough push back on this issue for anybody that’s not in that group or has some common sense
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And I think this is where its more or less people arguing about "personal belief" and that really has no right or wrong answer. Everyone can make up their own mind of when "too late" is. But its not cut and dry and every scenario is different.
As far as practicality of finding a doctor that would fabricate a medical condition to do an abortion to help some one out....idk about that. I don't think that is justification to ban abortion unless the woman has a medical condition. So you can then wipe your conscious clean by saying "ya know if they really wanted an abortion they could get some shady doctor to just make up a condition and get one"
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It was a mistake on my part to make it seem like the doctors would fabricate it. I think that most pregnancies carry sufficient risks for a doctor to legitimately state there is a medical concern that justifies abortion. So really, I think as a practical matter abortions would continue at about the same rate with a bit more paperwork either way (assuming just restrictions based on medical reasons, rape, and incest).
I agree with you that there shouldn’t be an outright ban. Clearly certain circumstances make an abortion the clear choice. Also, a ban wouldn’t end abortions any more than an outright ban on guns would end gun sales/ownership in the US.
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You should morally be able to opt out of smashing said crazy chick to ensure you do not bring a child into the world
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Alotta these folks that wanna shut down abortions are the same ones who were crying over wearing masks cuz of “personal freedom” and “muh rights”
This is all dumb, let the ladies choose what they want do with their bodies…No abortions ain’t gon stop ppl from smashing and having unplanned/unwanted pregnancies, and This country ain’t gon care or look out for the children once their born
It’s super wild to me that the ones who want to get rid of abortions the most (conservatives/republicans) hate social programs and don’t want a spend money on anything that’s not related to big business…That and the hypocritical freedom thing they be yelling should be enough push back on this issue for anybody that’s not in that group or has some common sense
The mental gymnastics make my head hurt. None of their points make sense.
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I come in peace, and there are two things I'm going to say about this:
1/ I'm not going to argue about which interpretation of a dead language is correct because I don't have those tools. What I do know is that what gets printed is subject to deliberations, so if whichever group tasked with reviewing and approving the verse did so, it means that the interpretation you are challenging MAY have merit, and it's something that we will never have definitive proof of (until archeologists unearth some dictionary/thesaurus tablets written around that time that clarify the contextual use of biblical languages).
2/ the bible generally doesn't have a problem with killing (and killing children for that matter). In fact, there are plenty of verses in the OT that order Israelites to invade cities and kill pregnant women and their kids. And Christians must consider all of these contradictions between the writings in Kings and those in the Gospel to be true because that's the basis of the faith (the whole book is true).
Feel free to believe what brings you peace, but there are a lot of aspects about the bible that weaken the anti-abortion position based on biblical scripts.
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Why can’t it just be looked at on a case by case basis? Why everything gotta be all or nothing. I feel like the pro life vs pro choice and creationism vs evolution arguments are just made for “fun”?
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The ppl in charge trying to make it all or nothing and it just trickles down from there…Should just be left to an individual choice like it’s been and keep it moving but some folks really serious bout taking life back to 1940
It’s crazy this is still a topic in 2022, but these the issues a certain group wants to focus on instead of fixing real things that effect us in the present
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Not my body not my choice.
Abortion should remain legal for safety reasons. Banning it is a war on the poor. People with money will always be able to get them safely.
Abortion should remain legal for safety reasons. Banning it is a war on the poor. People with money will always be able to get them safely.
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I think it should also be said that the SCOTUS opinion (at least the released draft) would not ban all abortions. From what I’ve read, it leaves it to the states.
I’d personally be against any state that does a full ban on abortions—and I’m probably as pro-life as you can get on NT. Are there any states actually proposing total bans on abortions? If not, much of the debate is about a nonissue.
I’d personally be against any state that does a full ban on abortions—and I’m probably as pro-life as you can get on NT. Are there any states actually proposing total bans on abortions? If not, much of the debate is about a nonissue.
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i am a recent father like yourself and i 100% agree
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Any pregnancy the mother doesn't want to go through should be able to be aborted. There is no in between here.
Yes a child is better off being aborted than being born into a life where no one wants them here for whatever reason that may be.
Yes a child is better off being aborted than being born into a life where no one wants them here for whatever reason that may be.
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I think there is concern of states following Oklahoma for example that just put a post 6 week abortion ban into law. Women for the most part don't even know they are pregnant at 6 weeks. That is basically one missed period assuming your periods are regular. (you can also spot and still be pregnant) If a women is on birth control and only spotting infrequently they may not know for months. If they actively use condoms they could assume they are just late and if you take a test at 6 weeks and your pregnant?? Guess what the choice is made for you, you're keeping that kid.
I am not a fan of the "slippery slope" argument but I think this is very very real as far as red states trying to harshly limit access to abortion.
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When do they ever not take it to the extreme? Of course a total ban will follow.
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And just to piggyback on this. Outlawing abortions doesn’t prevent abortions. They will still take place, only this time, they’ll put the woman’s life in serious danger.
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I understand the concern. And I agree 6 weeks is too early. I think it’s a different question during the second trimester. Is there no medical exception under the proposed Oklahoma law?
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you know what’s absolutely wild to me? making women carry to term a baby that is the result of rape. my ******* in-laws , as well as many evangelical christians, believe they should. be forced to. that completely blows my ******* mind. what. the. ****.
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Because to those kinda religious folks a child is a “gift from god” , no questions asked…But they don’t want anything to do with it after they are actually born and need attending to
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I wasnt trying to engage in debate of one side or the other (which I can understand otherwise, given the topic and nature of this thread). I just want to make sure there is clarity on what the text says versus what its believed to say.
I have my own opinion on the thread topic but I dont have the desire to interject that. But to address your thoughts:
1. Hebrew from paleo to modern is well preserved. Whether it was used in common dialog or not for a of period time, doesn't alter its legitimacy (as it never stopped being practiced in written form).
2. Yes, there are multiple places in scripture about enemies being "devoted to destruction" (death- leaving no survivors) where It does speak to pregnant women being killed as apart of conquest. It IS apart of the text and I do agree, scriptural doctrine as a whole should be considered when choosing where you place your faith and how you express it.
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Damn
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Every generation will use the tools they know best to bring about change.
With that said, and quoting a reader's comment on the WP article:
The religious right has been consistent at the polls and at every level of state and federal governments. They haven't won every election cycle, but they've made incremental gains every time and that matters way more than voting once for the first black/Latino/asian/woman/gay president and checking out of civic life.
I just hope this teaches them (and all the other folks who love to parrot apathetic slogans and who will be affected by this nonsense) that nobody can afford to ignore politics.
